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Dire Avengers in late game
2 years ago
hakan
what do u guys think about them in mid-late game i use them all the time mix them up with either falcon/FP or wraithblade/ gun version i want to se what u guys think about it i mainly play 2v2 or 3v3
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Silveran
after my initial 3+ die i never build them again, as dark reapers cost req only also, but work vs heavy armor some
HohesHaus
Hmmm well Dire's aren't that bad. I think you have to play them with the Shield Doctrin. It doesn't give them more Shield but let it regenerate faster. You can't play them soleley. Their advantage is, they don't have a set-up time, are cheap, and have decent damage. If you're playing with the Boner Singer Shield, you can build up a Dark Reaper defense line and try to lure the enemy into it.
I THINK they are supposed to be played like, hit and run. Attack until they overheat and pull back to your Dark Reapers, or if they loose their shield, pull them back.
If you mass them (5 or more) you can do okayish damage with them. Sure they are no comparison to Wraitguards or Dark Reaper, but they are cheap. If you have no other use for them as to use them as a meat shield, I think they are doing a good job.
Galahad2017
in 3v3 - just don't do it after the first 3-5 squads. they die instantly to mass aoe which is plentiful in a 3v3 game.
if you absolutely wanted to use them, as shielding squads for your dark reapers for example, perhaps with falcon support. otherwise, just don't do it.
Fortune
It's also lulzy in the sense that a single Devastator model costs 112 req to reinforce while Dire Avengers which have shields and mobility (things that devastators don't have either of) reinforce for 41. So you can literally lose half a squad for the price of 1 HBD model and still come out on top.
Vodacce
Why would you ever compare dire avengers with devastators ? Obviously devastators model costs more to reinforce, they have aoe slow ability, and about 16 more dps. Even that don't matter as they don't serve the same purpose anyway.
By the way dire avengers don't have more mobility by themself, the webway gate is needed for that and it's not free.
About dire avengers in late game they are kinda out of place but having one or two squads around to try some clutch grenade can be somewhat usefull.
LostInSpice
Don't say the 'W' word around @Fortune
Fortune
twitches
Chokolata
Try them out with Kyre and the bomb doctrine. They get 2 of those then.
Fortune
Because I feel like it.
HBD are supposed to, in theory, deal with a blob of Dire Avengers or Shootas due to doing AoE damage and slow, however, when a single model is more expensive than half of an enemy squad it is extremely finicky and difficult to make any good use of the unit.
For a more practical example let us instead look at Tactical Marines, who are 82 Req to reinforce vs the DA's 42.
Do you feel like Tacticals are worth twice as much as DA's? If so, why do you feel this way?
If not, then why are you splitting hairs? I brought up HBD because again as abovementioned they're supposed to be a counter to DA blobbing and yet they are not, the reason that they are not is not that they don't have enough dps, they do, or that they can't deal with blobs, in theory they can, the issue is that they are expensive and require a tremendous investment to even attempt to use whereas all other options are superior.
I don't like seeing ASM spam in every single game I play vs SM. Then I play SM and realize nothing else really works. It is annoying, diversity of playstyles are demanded to keep this game alive, in my humble opinion.
Solstice
If a DA squad runs into a HBD squad they will melt before killing a single marine so i dont see what the problem is. Not to mention that DA don't scale into lategame like HBD do hence the increased cost. HBD have a lot more uses than just killing DA so this comparison is pretty pointless imo.
Vodacce
Okay I see your point. Yes I agree with you. By the way I feel almost all the SM infantry roster, kinda lackluster to be honest. A bit like I feel about Eldar veichles.
I would like to see more adaptables Tac (As is in my opinion it should be their strong point, adaptability and flexibility)
More punchy setup team.
Scouts seem fine though.
ASM are a bit too strong but well, It's kinda balancing the rest. But it really kill the diversity in the same way as Eldars have to play wraiths units and nothing else. (In mid game)
Just some quick thoughts about it as it's not the point of the thread.
Fortune
Reaaaaaaally?
Please post some 1v1s where you faceroll Dire Avengers with HBD, I will be waiting.
Fortune
ASM are lackluster overall, it's just their dumb Power Sword upgrade coupled with Venerable Dreadnought level 3 ability (which gives them the banshee-like Dash) that make them broken in the current game play. Adjust those two, perhaps making the Power Sword an upgrade on each squad, and add a wind-up to the leap so it can be dodged like Banshees can, and all of a sudden the unit isn't nearly as good.
Personally I'd like to see them get Melta Bombs, vehicle snares overall need to make an appearance I feel, so that vehicles can be buffed.
HohesHaus
In teamgames I'm playing a mix out of DA, Dark Reaper and Falcons, compared with Bonesinger Shield. Works good enough.