So I'm not very good at micro or hit and run tactics. Are there any suggestions on how to play we Eldar to compensate or am I doomed to play a different race? Thanks!
Its hard to say without knowing how good/bad your micro management is. Maybe you could explain it alittle bit?
Do you use hotkeys or mouseclicks?
Which units do you tried together?
Which heroes to you use?
Which gamemode do you play?
At which point in the game do you start to struggle? At start with 3-4 Units and a Heroe, or mitgame mit 2 heroes and 5-8 Squads or Lategame with 3 heroes and 10-15 Units?
3vs3 comp-stomps with friends, typically two normals and a hard AI
At which point in the game do you start to struggle? At start with 3-4 Units and a Heroe, or mitgame mit 2 heroes and 5-8 Squads or Lategame with 3 heroes and 10-15 Units?
Throughout, essentially. My squads tend to get wiped very quickly, regardless of composition. It's depressing to hit Q on wraith units right as the last member of that squad gets killed. Banshees seem to die especially quickly even with back-up.
You're welcome I see we are in a similar position. Thats great!
First again im mostly a casual game. I look on some trikks of the pro's and try to use them but i only play in a way its komfortable für me and don't try to do things where i know that i cant do it. For me i think its bether to concentrate on the things that i can do good and ignore the rest, then try to do everything and suck hard.
So there is one important think to know in my eyes, maybe some sort of attitute. Its ok when unit dies. Its wa wargame, its war and people die in war. So dont be frustratet if units dies or think you should save them.
So im also no mikromanagement king. I try to concentrate on that things that are important.
First fight with 3 Dire Avengers: I concentrate on positioning and throw the granades. I f see i cant beat the force i run away.
Early Game:
Shortly after that the first fight i got the scorpion warriors and build 2 banshees. Now i fight only with these. I use them together with the hunt and try to scout enemy units or buildings and try to kill them quikly and run away, waiting for cooldown of hunt drops. My Avengers stay at my Listeningposts and Builds and play defenders but mostly i put them there to be out of my concentration. Only when i see i reached a critical point and i could win a fight with some preassure i get my Avengers to the front. And only when i end the mycro of my scorpion/banshees, THEN i maybe have time to throw some grenades.
Also, banshees are a early unit. They are supposed to die. They are great at the start when only a few units are on the field and you can make with scorpions some suprise attacks. But in midgame when enemy has lootaz/devastators or other stuff, they will melt like ice in the sunshine. So its ok to reinforce the banshees you have, but dont buy new one.
After 3 Avengers and 2 Banshees concentrate on on Dark Reaper. MASS Dark Reaper.
Mid Game:
This is the time where most 2. elite hit the field. I mostly have a blob of dark reapers here with the surviving dire avengers. Banshees are most dead at this point. Now i tech up, build the infinity portal and everytime i have enough energy i buy wraith guards. If you have no energy but requisiton, buy dark reapers.
I know for me there is a lot potential for positioning and that the avengers still has there grenades. But most of the time i Just rightcklick+ a everyone on the enemy position and concentrate of microing my heroes. Sometime its needet to atack a specific target then again select everyone and rightclick on the enemy i want to see dead. Thats all. When i see im loosing the fight, i move everyon back to my safe zone while right klick on it. I know theoretically that i could save a wraith guard with the Q ability. Practically i allways forget to use it. Hopefully some unit make it back. Maybe not. If not, just buy new.
Late Game:
The Same as Midgame, just with 3 elites.
That is the most part.
Sometimes i differ a little bit, i buy some rangers and play hide&seek, sometimes i buy more banshees when i face an ork which is reall have in meelee, but thats above is my core strategy.
Also, if that is to much for you (what is totally ok) you could try to play orkz. Sound funny maybe, but i think that orkz are the mosty microless faction to play on casual level. For me in early and midgame orkz to play is a lot easier to do. But i still be annoyed trough the scrap parts everytime, so after playing 2-3 rounds with orkz i go back to eldar. Orkz has (on casual level) much less mikro, but a lot makro on top.
@Larkis said:
You're welcome I see we are in a similar position. Thats great!
First again im mostly a casual game. I look on some trikks of the pro's and try to use them but i only play in a way its komfortable für me and don't try to do things where i know that i cant do it. For me i think its bether to concentrate on the things that i can do good and ignore the rest, then try to do everything and suck hard.
So there is one important think to know in my eyes, maybe some sort of attitute. Its ok when unit dies. Its wa wargame, its war and people die in war. So dont be frustratet if units dies or think you should save them.
So im also no mikromanagement king. I try to concentrate on that things that are important.
First fight with 3 Dire Avengers: I concentrate on positioning and throw the granades. I f see i cant beat the force i run away.
Early Game:
Shortly after that the first fight i got the scorpion warriors and build 2 banshees. Now i fight only with these. I use them together with the hunt and try to scout enemy units or buildings and try to kill them quikly and run away, waiting for cooldown of hunt drops. My Avengers stay at my Listeningposts and Builds and play defenders but mostly i put them there to be out of my concentration. Only when i see i reached a critical point and i could win a fight with some preassure i get my Avengers to the front. And only when i end the mycro of my scorpion/banshees, THEN i maybe have time to throw some grenades.
Also, banshees are a early unit. They are supposed to die. They are great at the start when only a few units are on the field and you can make with scorpions some suprise attacks. But in midgame when enemy has lootaz/devastators or other stuff, they will melt like ice in the sunshine. So its ok to reinforce the banshees you have, but dont buy new one.
After 3 Avengers and 2 Banshees concentrate on on Dark Reaper. MASS Dark Reaper.
Mid Game:
This is the time where most 2. elite hit the field. I mostly have a blob of dark reapers here with the surviving dire avengers. Banshees are most dead at this point. Now i tech up, build the infinity portal and everytime i have enough energy i buy wraith guards. If you have no energy but requisiton, buy dark reapers.
I know for me there is a lot potential for positioning and that the avengers still has there grenades. But most of the time i Just rightcklick+ a everyone on the enemy position and concentrate of microing my heroes. Sometime its needet to atack a specific target then again select everyone and rightclick on the enemy i want to see dead. Thats all. When i see im loosing the fight, i move everyon back to my safe zone while right klick on it. I know theoretically that i could save a wraith guard with the Q ability. Practically i allways forget to use it. Hopefully some unit make it back. Maybe not. If not, just buy new.
Late Game:
The Same as Midgame, just with 3 elites.
That is the most part.
Sometimes i differ a little bit, i buy some rangers and play hide&seek, sometimes i buy more banshees when i face an ork which is reall have in meelee, but thats above is my core strategy.
Also, if that is to much for you (what is totally ok) you could try to play orkz. Sound funny maybe, but i think that orkz are the mosty microless faction to play on casual level. For me in early and midgame orkz to play is a lot easier to do. But i still be annoyed trough the scrap parts everytime, so after playing 2-3 rounds with orkz i go back to eldar. Orkz has (on casual level) much less mikro, but a lot makro on top.
Thank you for all the information! Can you please tell me what elites and doctrines you use?
@PaperBaG said:
hard to get better when just playing computer in 3v3
Hard to get better when other options involve getting crushed. Perfect practice makes perfect. ;-)
I'll disagree here. I'm an abysmal RTS player, with 0 micro and I don't have time to play a lot, yet I only play 1v1. I have below 50% win rate and that's fine. Still I manage to win decisively from time to time (and the other time I'm uber crushed in first 5 minutes )
That being said, a tip from a 0/10 micro player with a terrible win rate:
don't go for super combined arms/complex combos. Better to focus on 2-3 unit types + elites and make the best use of them, rather than having tons of different ones.
don't try to copy every play/strategy you see/read about. Remember, that the majority of the current meta relies on a player being able to pull it off. I'm unable to juggle 1 webway gate arround (hell, I don't even have a wraithlord), so I rather build many gateways around the map
do not focus on harassing too much. Again, this is a must-do on a high level play, but it will only do you harm when you will be negleting your main army just to destroy one power generator
get creative. Forget about builds and strategies, think what you WANT to play and what you think you WILL BE able to pull off. There is nothing more frustrating than trying to copy somebody else's strategy and fail miserably just because you're not an apm god
Overall, this can be summed up in one single tip: baby steps, baby steps. First learn the game by yourself. Try different things. Do not go for something you currently have no skill to do. Over time, when you get better and you'll get better understanding of the game, you will be able to incorporate more advanced army compositions, combos, harrass etc. Just hang in there and you'll get there one day. Don't get disheartened
@PaperBaG said:
hard to get better when just playing computer in 3v3
Overall, this can be summed up in one single tip: baby steps, baby steps. First learn the game by yourself. Try different things. Do not go for something you currently have no skill to do. Over time, when you get better and you'll get better understanding of the game, you will be able to incorporate more advanced army compositions, combos, harrass etc. Just hang in there and you'll get there one day. Don't get disheartened
As a fellow micro sufferer, I agree with Quitt. You won't cope if you have too many different types of units.
I am going to be more extreme and say ditch the reapers for some rangers which you keep out of trouble and can micro slowly. I use Rohan with shadow step and it is fairly easy to keep rangers alive.
EDIT- what I am trying to say here is make a deliberate choice not to buy at least one unit type. If you are aiming for wraithguard then skip reapers. I would buy reapers against ork trukks if I needed them but otherwise I make that choice. There is a bit of strategy but it is largely to lower my micro needs.
I use dire avengers to attack with banshees behind to counter ASM. When the ASM come in attack with banshees and move your dire avengers
Just like a marine player you need to save some disruption )grenades) to exit the fight.
Remember your control groups will make your units blob. Once they are in position spread them out a bit.
Get in the habit of using invisi-vents (TM). This will not only surprise your opponent but also spread your forces around.
Practice against the AI to practice your webway micro. You need the habit of moving it around as part of your routine. The alternative is just buying a few of them when placing them around the map. You will not be able to exit a bad fight without fleet of foot.
Don't be afraid to lose capture points. You can get in some really bad fights trying to defend the whole map.
Lastly, anticipate. If you watch good players they don't dodge an ASM jump by watching for it to happen. They are moving before it happens. If your opponent has ASM he will jump. Take a few shots then move some (or all of your squads). Take a few more shots. Move again. It takes surprisingly little to have the ASM land in empty ground. And you feel like a micro god!
This means setup teams can't be in front taking the first jump. You need dire avangers as the target as they can move. This is another reason I avoid dark reapers, again it is because I can't micro them while microing other stuff rather than the unit not being useful.
Likewise if you are bashing a power Gen early game, leave after about ten seconds as he will be coming for you. Come Back if he doesn't show up.
My advice would be learn to micro your elites first and use abilities correctly since they can change the tide of games and are fairly easy to control, also if u make a mistake they have the hp to let u still toy around until u get it right
Play against humies, it's more fun and you learn more. Really basic stuff that makes a big impact
Make a habit of looping your attention between the main screen, your resource indicator and the minimap.
Don't neglect macro, even if the game isn't heavily macro oriented. Quantity is a quality in itself. Having more stuff automatically makes you stronger. Make sure your resources are as close to zero as possible and don't worry about how upkeep and escalation phases work. Just get units out.
Learn the map, which nodes are important to upgrade in what sequence, since each generator costs more than the previous one. Having the right sequence in your mind not only costs 0 actions per minute, it makes your overall control much smoother and reduces the amount of area you need to be concerned with. In time you'll develop a sense to adapt your resource upgrade sequence, as well as naturally increase the area of the map you're aware of. "Only worry about the city after learning your way around the hood."
Back to the map. Don't neglect vision. Build extra bone singers and teleport them to bushes. Even if you lose them, you get a hint where your opponent is moving next, so you have a few extra seconds to position your units better.
+1 for prioritising Elites when training up micro. They make the biggest impact, so get comfortable with those first.
Don't overcomplicate by trying to achieve too much. Define in your mind a simple goal and go for it (for example: landing and avoiding skillshots like Macha's Spear Throw). Even if you lose the match, try to evaluate how better you got at that aspect. Little goals help keep you motivated.
Choose stuff that you think it's cool and fun. Don't worry if your choice is considered weak (keyword is considered). You'll either do a good job with it within your skill range, or it's not going to work out and you'll naturally progress to choices that make your overall play more consistent.
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Comments
Larkis
Hey again here,
Its hard to say without knowing how good/bad your micro management is. Maybe you could explain it alittle bit?
Do you use hotkeys or mouseclicks?
Which units do you tried together?
Which heroes to you use?
Which gamemode do you play?
At which point in the game do you start to struggle? At start with 3-4 Units and a Heroe, or mitgame mit 2 heroes and 5-8 Squads or Lategame with 3 heroes and 10-15 Units?
Solomon
Larkis, thanks for the reply! Responses below:
Combination, typically the buildings and elite G-string
Combination of Dire Avengers (3) and Banshees (2). I have mixed in reapers as well due to their no power cost - always feel power-hungry.
Striking Scorpions, Macha/Kyre/Jan-zar/Wraithlord, Taldeer
3vs3 comp-stomps with friends, typically two normals and a hard AI
Throughout, essentially. My squads tend to get wiped very quickly, regardless of composition. It's depressing to hit Q on wraith units right as the last member of that squad gets killed. Banshees seem to die especially quickly even with back-up.
Thanks again for taking the time to help me out!
Larkis
You're welcome
I see we are in a similar position. Thats great!
First again im mostly a casual game. I look on some trikks of the pro's and try to use them but i only play in a way its komfortable für me and don't try to do things where i know that i cant do it. For me i think its bether to concentrate on the things that i can do good and ignore the rest, then try to do everything and suck hard.
So there is one important think to know in my eyes, maybe some sort of attitute. Its ok when unit dies. Its wa wargame, its war and people die in war. So dont be frustratet if units dies or think you should save them.
So im also no mikromanagement king. I try to concentrate on that things that are important.
First fight with 3 Dire Avengers: I concentrate on positioning and throw the granades. I f see i cant beat the force i run away.
Early Game:
Shortly after that the first fight i got the scorpion warriors and build 2 banshees. Now i fight only with these. I use them together with the hunt and try to scout enemy units or buildings and try to kill them quikly and run away, waiting for cooldown of hunt drops. My Avengers stay at my Listeningposts and Builds and play defenders but mostly i put them there to be out of my concentration. Only when i see i reached a critical point and i could win a fight with some preassure i get my Avengers to the front. And only when i end the mycro of my scorpion/banshees, THEN i maybe have time to throw some grenades.
Also, banshees are a early unit. They are supposed to die. They are great at the start when only a few units are on the field and you can make with scorpions some suprise attacks. But in midgame when enemy has lootaz/devastators or other stuff, they will melt like ice in the sunshine. So its ok to reinforce the banshees you have, but dont buy new one.
After 3 Avengers and 2 Banshees concentrate on on Dark Reaper. MASS Dark Reaper.
Mid Game:
This is the time where most 2. elite hit the field. I mostly have a blob of dark reapers here with the surviving dire avengers. Banshees are most dead at this point. Now i tech up, build the infinity portal and everytime i have enough energy i buy wraith guards. If you have no energy but requisiton, buy dark reapers.
I know for me there is a lot potential for positioning and that the avengers still has there grenades. But most of the time i Just rightcklick+ a everyone on the enemy position and concentrate of microing my heroes. Sometime its needet to atack a specific target then again select everyone and rightclick on the enemy i want to see dead. Thats all. When i see im loosing the fight, i move everyon back to my safe zone while right klick on it. I know theoretically that i could save a wraith guard with the Q ability. Practically i allways forget to use it. Hopefully some unit make it back. Maybe not. If not, just buy new.
Late Game:
The Same as Midgame, just with 3 elites.
That is the most part.
Sometimes i differ a little bit, i buy some rangers and play hide&seek, sometimes i buy more banshees when i face an ork which is reall have in meelee, but thats above is my core strategy.
Also, if that is to much for you (what is totally ok) you could try to play orkz. Sound funny maybe, but i think that orkz are the mosty microless faction to play on casual level. For me in early and midgame orkz to play is a lot easier to do. But i still be annoyed trough the scrap parts everytime, so after playing 2-3 rounds with orkz i go back to eldar.
Orkz has (on casual level) much less mikro, but a lot makro on top.
Solomon
Thank you for all the information! Can you please tell me what elites and doctrines you use?
PaperBaG
hard to get better when just playing computer in 3v3
Solomon
Hard to get better when other options involve getting crushed. Perfect practice makes perfect. ;-)
Quitt
I'll disagree here. I'm an abysmal RTS player, with 0 micro and I don't have time to play a lot, yet I only play 1v1. I have below 50% win rate and that's fine. Still I manage to win decisively from time to time (and the other time I'm uber crushed in first 5 minutes
)
That being said, a tip from a 0/10 micro player with a terrible win rate:
Overall, this can be summed up in one single tip: baby steps, baby steps. First learn the game by yourself. Try different things. Do not go for something you currently have no skill to do. Over time, when you get better and you'll get better understanding of the game, you will be able to incorporate more advanced army compositions, combos, harrass etc. Just hang in there and you'll get there one day. Don't get disheartened
Solomon
Thanks for the reply! Here's one of my biggest problems:
https://community.dawnofwar.com/discussion/comment/48249#Comment_48249
My normal infantry tend to die off really fast. I do like dark reapers, but their doctrines kinda suck.
KanKrusha
As a fellow micro sufferer, I agree with Quitt. You won't cope if you have too many different types of units.
I am going to be more extreme and say ditch the reapers for some rangers which you keep out of trouble and can micro slowly. I use Rohan with shadow step and it is fairly easy to keep rangers alive.
EDIT- what I am trying to say here is make a deliberate choice not to buy at least one unit type. If you are aiming for wraithguard then skip reapers. I would buy reapers against ork trukks if I needed them but otherwise I make that choice. There is a bit of strategy but it is largely to lower my micro needs.
I use dire avengers to attack with banshees behind to counter ASM. When the ASM come in attack with banshees and move your dire avengers
Just like a marine player you need to save some disruption )grenades) to exit the fight.
Remember your control groups will make your units blob. Once they are in position spread them out a bit.
Get in the habit of using invisi-vents (TM). This will not only surprise your opponent but also spread your forces around.
Practice against the AI to practice your webway micro. You need the habit of moving it around as part of your routine. The alternative is just buying a few of them when placing them around the map. You will not be able to exit a bad fight without fleet of foot.
Don't be afraid to lose capture points. You can get in some really bad fights trying to defend the whole map.
Lastly, anticipate. If you watch good players they don't dodge an ASM jump by watching for it to happen. They are moving before it happens. If your opponent has ASM he will jump. Take a few shots then move some (or all of your squads). Take a few more shots. Move again. It takes surprisingly little to have the ASM land in empty ground. And you feel like a micro god!
This means setup teams can't be in front taking the first jump. You need dire avangers as the target as they can move. This is another reason I avoid dark reapers, again it is because I can't micro them while microing other stuff rather than the unit not being useful.
Likewise if you are bashing a power Gen early game, leave after about ten seconds as he will be coming for you. Come Back if he doesn't show up.
Katitof
Well, the best tip for low micro players as eldar is to switch to other faction.
Eldar are micro intensive and nothing can be done about it, you need to have what it take to play them.
PaperBaG
My advice would be learn to micro your elites first and use abilities correctly since they can change the tide of games and are fairly easy to control, also if u make a mistake they have the hp to let u still toy around until u get it right
Larkis
Every race is mikro intensive in this game.
KanKrusha
So agree. Eldar would not be first or second place on my list of most micro intensive in this game.
AtlasDoomOcculta
Play against humies, it's more fun and you learn more. Really basic stuff that makes a big impact
Make a habit of looping your attention between the main screen, your resource indicator and the minimap.
Don't neglect macro, even if the game isn't heavily macro oriented. Quantity is a quality in itself. Having more stuff automatically makes you stronger. Make sure your resources are as close to zero as possible and don't worry about how upkeep and escalation phases work. Just get units out.
Learn the map, which nodes are important to upgrade in what sequence, since each generator costs more than the previous one. Having the right sequence in your mind not only costs 0 actions per minute, it makes your overall control much smoother and reduces the amount of area you need to be concerned with. In time you'll develop a sense to adapt your resource upgrade sequence, as well as naturally increase the area of the map you're aware of. "Only worry about the city after learning your way around the hood."
Back to the map. Don't neglect vision. Build extra bone singers and teleport them to bushes. Even if you lose them, you get a hint where your opponent is moving next, so you have a few extra seconds to position your units better.
+1 for prioritising Elites when training up micro. They make the biggest impact, so get comfortable with those first.
Don't overcomplicate by trying to achieve too much. Define in your mind a simple goal and go for it (for example: landing and avoiding skillshots like Macha's Spear Throw). Even if you lose the match, try to evaluate how better you got at that aspect. Little goals help keep you motivated.
Choose stuff that you think it's cool and fun. Don't worry if your choice is considered weak (keyword is considered). You'll either do a good job with it within your skill range, or it's not going to work out and you'll naturally progress to choices that make your overall play more consistent.
jambai
Eldar is the least micro intensive race in this game by a longshot. If you want to gitgud at micro, play orcs.