I don't even know why I keep building them, they are ok but way too easy to counter, it's feels like the game keep telling me "just keep building DAs until tier2".
@Grighoul said:
Don't forget that Dark Reapers deal not only true damage, but splash-AOE damage with each hit - that also buffs their DPS.
Any other suppression team also deals that AoE.
And NOT only in the place of impact, but across ALL the distance between lootas/HB and their target, unlike reapers, who deal AoE only at the target.
@Mirambel said:
True damage also mows Elites and death drop pods. A pair of Dark Reapers supported by a Falcon is a force to be reckoned with. Much more economic than multiplying separate anti-infantry and anti-vehicles squads. Too many squads = you are setting yourself up for AOE attacks.
A pair of land speeders does a better job. Little worse vs infantry, incomparably better vs armor and much more mobile.
Moreover, ture damage got zero impact on elites, unless its vehicle armor class elite, in which case low DPS of reapers isn't a big threat to them.
Deathstorm drop pod will murder mercilessly multiple reaper squads if dropped between them and if you are in position to shoot it from afar, you might just as well go somewhere else and let it expire.
So there doesn't seem to be much consensus as to whether they are fine or not, but let's look at the objective aspects of reapers
The Pros
They have true damage, doing more damage to some unit types
The Cons
-Their damage is (significantly) lower than devastators and lootas against infantry
-They do not have a slow like devastators and lootas
-Their doctrines absolutely blow compared to devastators and lootas (ok this is technically subjective, but most people seemed to be in agreement about this)
Am I missing something here, seems like they are relatively quite weak
I would much rather they had normal damage, and more of the pros of the other weapons teams, or maybe give them an upgrade to buy, which remove their slow and adds true damage?
@Darkstirling said:
I would much rather they had normal damage, and more of the pros of the other weapons teams, or maybe give them an upgrade to buy, which remove their slow and adds true damage?
People might appreciate them more if they can't rely on Striking Scorpions for that early true damage instead.
@Stoner said:
Personally I don't think Reapers are weak. I treat all these units as defenders first and foremost, so don't have big success in using them for assault, but out of 3, Lootas win hands down currently. Also, giving t1 originally unlocked unit with gimped damage against infantry and better one for armor doesn't make even slightest sense to me tbh...
It seems strange that lootas are by far the best when Devastators do 3 more DPS and slow as well. They AoE mechanics are different (circular vs line), but they are pretty similar overall, with Devastators have much better doctrines.
Loota cleave is so good that they get more damage on a squad than Devs do.
@Grighoul said:
Don't forget that Dark Reapers deal not only true damage, but splash-AOE damage with each hit - that also buffs their DPS.
Any other suppression team also deals that AoE.
And NOT only in the place of impact, but across ALL the distance between lootas/HB and their target, unlike reapers, who deal AoE only at the target.
I did not realize this. I'll need to test this out!
@Mirambel said:
True damage also mows Elites and death drop pods. A pair of Dark Reapers supported by a Falcon is a force to be reckoned with. Much more economic than multiplying separate anti-infantry and anti-vehicles squads. Too many squads = you are setting yourself up for AOE attacks.
A pair of land speeders does a better job. Little worse vs infantry, incomparably better vs armor and much more mobile.
Land Speeders are a poor comparison, and cost way more energy.
Moreover, ture damage got zero impact on elites, unless its vehicle armor class elite, in which case low DPS of reapers isn't a big threat to them.
True damage does not have zero impact on Elites, and there is no vehicle class armour. There is Heavy Armour and Normal Armour, and the vast majority of Elites have Heavy armour. Normal damage only does 22% of its damage against Heavy armour. That's a massive decrease that True damage ignores.
Deathstorm drop pod will murder mercilessly multiple reaper squads if dropped between them and if you are in position to shoot it from afar, you might just as well go somewhere else and let it expire.
Sometimes you are in a fight and need to finish the fight. Reapers can switch focus to the Drop Pod and take it down faster than a similar situation for Orks. Also, Reapers will do full damage to the Shield Generator which has Heavy Armour.
Also wanna add, x1 slow is fine, but x2 puts infantry to crawl and pretty much guarantees you lose them all, if they don't have jump packs or any other means to bail out. That puts Reapers pretty low. Also, considering their eco harass utility - it's just way too risky to pull them on the front row to bash gens, they are pretty slow and easy to counter by any melee forces. For eco harass you need fast, mobile units like Scorps or ASM, don't think they'll even be particularly good at it.
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Fww
I don't even know why I keep building them, they are ok but way too easy to counter, it's feels like the game keep telling me "just keep building DAs until tier2".
Katitof
Any other suppression team also deals that AoE.
And NOT only in the place of impact, but across ALL the distance between lootas/HB and their target, unlike reapers, who deal AoE only at the target.
A pair of land speeders does a better job. Little worse vs infantry, incomparably better vs armor and much more mobile.
Moreover, ture damage got zero impact on elites, unless its vehicle armor class elite, in which case low DPS of reapers isn't a big threat to them.
Deathstorm drop pod will murder mercilessly multiple reaper squads if dropped between them and if you are in position to shoot it from afar, you might just as well go somewhere else and let it expire.
Diogen84
they are as like as devastators But have true damage instead of normal.
Darkstirling
So there doesn't seem to be much consensus as to whether they are fine or not, but let's look at the objective aspects of reapers
The Pros
They have true damage, doing more damage to some unit types
The Cons
-Their damage is (significantly) lower than devastators and lootas against infantry
-They do not have a slow like devastators and lootas
-Their doctrines absolutely blow compared to devastators and lootas (ok this is technically subjective, but most people seemed to be in agreement about this)
Am I missing something here, seems like they are relatively quite weak
I would much rather they had normal damage, and more of the pros of the other weapons teams, or maybe give them an upgrade to buy, which remove their slow and adds true damage?
KotCR
People might appreciate them more if they can't rely on Striking Scorpions for that early true damage instead.
crippler38
Loota cleave is so good that they get more damage on a squad than Devs do.
RedDevilCG
I did not realize this. I'll need to test this out!
Land Speeders are a poor comparison, and cost way more energy.
True damage does not have zero impact on Elites, and there is no vehicle class armour. There is Heavy Armour and Normal Armour, and the vast majority of Elites have Heavy armour. Normal damage only does 22% of its damage against Heavy armour. That's a massive decrease that True damage ignores.
Sometimes you are in a fight and need to finish the fight. Reapers can switch focus to the Drop Pod and take it down faster than a similar situation for Orks. Also, Reapers will do full damage to the Shield Generator which has Heavy Armour.
Stoner
Also wanna add, x1 slow is fine, but x2 puts infantry to crawl and pretty much guarantees you lose them all, if they don't have jump packs or any other means to bail out. That puts Reapers pretty low. Also, considering their eco harass utility - it's just way too risky to pull them on the front row to bash gens, they are pretty slow and easy to counter by any melee forces. For eco harass you need fast, mobile units like Scorps or ASM, don't think they'll even be particularly good at it.