Does no fire on the move decrease skill?

Azzakye

As we know most ranged line units do not fire on the move and so I ask this question does its removal or locked as an upgrade decrease skill or is it capping skill level in the early game.

Does its removal make melee more potent then it should otherwise be?
Why do melee units keep their fire on the move?
What made Relic remove this aspect only from ranged line units?

CANNED_F3TUS

Melee units dont do jack or ++heresy redacted++ in damage with their pistols so they might as well not be firing.

Azzakye

Something I just discovered from the 'tacs are better than I thought' forum is that melee stances give tactical marines fire on the move. Not sure if this is intended/bug/unique to tactical marines but the mere existence of this advantage gives tactical marines advanced chase potential than they would normally.

CANNED_F3TUS

@Azzakye said:
Something I just discovered from the 'tacs are better than I thought' forum is that melee stances give tactical marines fire on the move. Not sure if this is intended/bug/unique to tactical marines but the mere existence of this advantage gives tactical marines advanced chase potential than they would normally.

No thats solarias perk. You click melee stance so they give chase to running troops

KotCR

Solaris Trait also reduces the Tac stationary DPS from 28 to 22 apparently, and they will do something like 8-11DPS on the move. So it's not worth.

Mostly, the lack of FotM helps ranged units against other ranged units that might be slightly stronger in melee, as not being able to do any damage on the charge usually means you aren't strong enough in comparison to the opponent's strength to still take them in melee by the time you close the distance, then.

Wardemon

@KotCR said:
Solaris Trait also reduces the Tac stationary DPS from 28 to 22 apparently, and they will do something like 8-11DPS on the move. So it's not worth.

Mostly, the lack of FotM helps ranged units against other ranged units that might be slightly stronger in melee, as not being able to do any damage on the charge usually means you aren't strong enough in comparison to the opponent's strength to still take them in melee by the time you close the distance, then.

Not sure where you got the idea that stationary damage is decreased with the fire on move doctrine but it certainly isn't true for me.
I just went in to test it and double check before making this post. Maybe it is some glitch with a certain combination of doctrines or something for you.

Katitof

@KotCR said:

@Wardemon said:

@KotCR said:
Solaris Trait also reduces the Tac stationary DPS from 28 to 22 apparently, and they will do something like 8-11DPS on the move. So it's not worth.

Mostly, the lack of FotM helps ranged units against other ranged units that might be slightly stronger in melee, as not being able to do any damage on the charge usually means you aren't strong enough in comparison to the opponent's strength to still take them in melee by the time you close the distance, then.

Not sure where you got the idea that stationary damage is decreased with the fire on move doctrine but it certainly isn't true for me.
I just went in to test it and double check before making this post. Maybe it is some glitch with a certain combination of doctrines or something for you.

From what I understand, the tooltip doesn't update, but it does reduce Tactical stationary DPS.
It was revealed by one of the people that has looked into the game's data files; I can't remember the technical details but it was something to do with reload rate or something.

EDIT: Found the thread detailing the data for you, just incase you wanted some proof:
https://community.dawnofwar.com/discussion/12650/solarias-command-fire-on-move-doctrine-in-numbers#latest

Or the weapon is being replaced with a different one when tacts move, just like scorpions weapons are replaced for critical strike, which is probably what happens here.

KotCR

@Katitof said:

@KotCR said:

@Wardemon said:

@KotCR said:
Solaris Trait also reduces the Tac stationary DPS from 28 to 22 apparently, and they will do something like 8-11DPS on the move. So it's not worth.

Mostly, the lack of FotM helps ranged units against other ranged units that might be slightly stronger in melee, as not being able to do any damage on the charge usually means you aren't strong enough in comparison to the opponent's strength to still take them in melee by the time you close the distance, then.

Not sure where you got the idea that stationary damage is decreased with the fire on move doctrine but it certainly isn't true for me.
I just went in to test it and double check before making this post. Maybe it is some glitch with a certain combination of doctrines or something for you.

From what I understand, the tooltip doesn't update, but it does reduce Tactical stationary DPS.
It was revealed by one of the people that has looked into the game's data files; I can't remember the technical details but it was something to do with reload rate or something.

EDIT: Found the thread detailing the data for you, just incase you wanted some proof:
https://community.dawnofwar.com/discussion/12650/solarias-command-fire-on-move-doctrine-in-numbers#latest

Or the weapon is being replaced with a different one when tacts move, just like scorpions weapons are replaced for critical strike, which is probably what happens here.

When I originally saw the thread, that was my first thought too, but if you read the thread further, apparently that's not the case. It literally just replaces it with the weaker Bolter.

EDIT: For some reasons the forums decided to remove my last post, so just to avoid confusing anyone, I'll quote it here too for reference:

@KotCR said:
Solaris Trait also reduces the Tac stationary DPS from 28 to 22 apparently, and they will do something like 8-11DPS on the move. So it's not worth.

Mostly, the lack of FotM helps ranged units against other ranged units that might be slightly stronger in melee, as not being able to do any damage on the charge usually means you aren't strong enough in comparison to the opponent's strength to still take them in melee by the time you close the distance, then.

Not sure where you got the idea that stationary damage is decreased with the fire on move doctrine but it certainly isn't true for me.
I just went in to test it and double check before making this post. Maybe it is some glitch with a certain combination of doctrines or something for you.

From what I understand, the tooltip doesn't update, but it does reduce Tactical stationary DPS.
It was revealed by one of the people that has looked into the game's data files; I can't remember the technical details but it was something to do with reload rate or something.

EDIT: Found the thread detailing the data for you, just incase you wanted some proof:
https://community.dawnofwar.com/discussion/12650/solarias-command-fire-on-move-doctrine-in-numbers#latest

Wardemon

@KotCR said:

@Katitof said:

@KotCR said:

@Wardemon said:

@KotCR said:
Solaris Trait also reduces the Tac stationary DPS from 28 to 22 apparently, and they will do something like 8-11DPS on the move. So it's not worth.

Mostly, the lack of FotM helps ranged units against other ranged units that might be slightly stronger in melee, as not being able to do any damage on the charge usually means you aren't strong enough in comparison to the opponent's strength to still take them in melee by the time you close the distance, then.

Not sure where you got the idea that stationary damage is decreased with the fire on move doctrine but it certainly isn't true for me.
I just went in to test it and double check before making this post. Maybe it is some glitch with a certain combination of doctrines or something for you.

From what I understand, the tooltip doesn't update, but it does reduce Tactical stationary DPS.
It was revealed by one of the people that has looked into the game's data files; I can't remember the technical details but it was something to do with reload rate or something.

EDIT: Found the thread detailing the data for you, just incase you wanted some proof:
https://community.dawnofwar.com/discussion/12650/solarias-command-fire-on-move-doctrine-in-numbers#latest

Or the weapon is being replaced with a different one when tacts move, just like scorpions weapons are replaced for critical strike, which is probably what happens here.

When I originally saw the thread, that was my first thought too, but if you read the thread further, apparently that's not the case. It literally just replaces it with the weaker Bolter.

EDIT: For some reasons the forums decided to remove my last post, so just to avoid confusing anyone, I'll quote it here too for reference:

@KotCR said:
Solaris Trait also reduces the Tac stationary DPS from 28 to 22 apparently, and they will do something like 8-11DPS on the move. So it's not worth.

Mostly, the lack of FotM helps ranged units against other ranged units that might be slightly stronger in melee, as not being able to do any damage on the charge usually means you aren't strong enough in comparison to the opponent's strength to still take them in melee by the time you close the distance, then.

Not sure where you got the idea that stationary damage is decreased with the fire on move doctrine but it certainly isn't true for me.
I just went in to test it and double check before making this post. Maybe it is some glitch with a certain combination of doctrines or something for you.

From what I understand, the tooltip doesn't update, but it does reduce Tactical stationary DPS.
It was revealed by one of the people that has looked into the game's data files; I can't remember the technical details but it was something to do with reload rate or something.

EDIT: Found the thread detailing the data for you, just incase you wanted some proof:
https://community.dawnofwar.com/discussion/12650/solarias-command-fire-on-move-doctrine-in-numbers#latest

Thanks for the info. I am hoping it is just that the weapons switch when firing and when moving. I read through the thread and never saw a definitive answer to it but it would be nice to find out for sure. Easy way to do it imo is two players go into a game one with the doctrine one without and hold their fire then when in range both start firing at the same time while staying stationary and see the results of doing that a few times.