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Overbuff SM, overnerf Eldar - is that balance?
4 years ago
DonDimon
I'm glad that most OP units have been tweaked, but apart from this, the patch made things worse in terms of balance, as for me.
It removed the early game effectiveness of Eldar completely (Dire Avengers, Banshees, Scorps, Ranger were heavily nerfed or got increased cost), while bringing nothing in return - nor even improving the abysmal situation of Eldar vehicles (slight buff of Prisms looks like mockery).
While solid SMs got a huge deal of buffs with only ASMs nerfed a bit.
Is that fair? Is that balance? Previously I had no problems playing or dealing with any race, now I'm totally confused.
Am I the only one thinking this way?
I am not surprised btw, as Relics did the same in COH2, nerfing Soviets in every patch 
Peace.
4
Comments
Larkis
Maby you should play and test it before you cry?
Seriously man, Marine Early was massively broken where only ASM work against good players. And Eldar was the easiest game with Scorpions and banshees.
Maybe the patch go to far. But first we should test it!!!!
frumpylumps
Kyre was not nerfed
jambai
Eldar was overnerfed I agree. They nerfed the OP stuff but the didn't do anything to compensate the rather mediocre units like the viper.
RedDevilCG
@jambai I've seen both Cataclaw and BikeRush use the Vyper with powerful results. Bikerush never builds anything that isn't effective unless he's trolling, and those weren't trolling games.
Fireprism was also buffed: Both it's damage was increased by 95, with its passive changed to TRUE damage! This was badly needed IMO.
Farseer Macha's damage mitigation was increased to 75%. Warpspider buffs. Increased bolt attacks from Eldritch storm. Quick strike damage was reduced but so was its cost.
There's love in there for Eldar too.
Krupp
Play it first, and then complain.
Even better, don't complain but post constructive feedback.
Ben1993
agree with this one eldar was Nerfed to much am struggling to get good wins out of them since the update, tacts did need the increased damage but dire avengers should have stayed the same, but am sure they will still have much more patching to do. i wouldn't call viper mediocre i have had some good results out of it just takes a bit more time to get used to than falcons.
VanceMFStubbs
Sweet tears of lowskill Eldar players
redScare
Ah, the sweet sound of the laments of the Xenos. Music to my ears
Abzu
Its funny because the patch just came out a few hours ago.
Fww
His feedback is pretty constructive.
Darkstirling
Oh look, here come the people who believe eldar being overnerfed is some kind of karmic justice, or that anyone complaining must be low skill. Guess what you geniuses, this game is dying, and fragmenting the community by tribally dividing players by the faction they play hastens that death.
By all means though, tell me more about how the eldar players are "getting theirs"
Bersercker
Dire avengers only had their shields and range nerfred, banshees only had their scropion doctrine and reflective strike doctrine nerfed(its not like these doctrines were particulary useful anyway), scorpions were beyond retardedly OP, so they were brought into line. The only unwarranted nerf is the ranger one, since that ranger spam mentioned in the patchnotes only worked in 3v3 compstomps anyway.
Not seeing heavy nerfs to early game here. You can still spam DA just as well as before, only will have to retreat the damaged squads a bit earlier.
As for the buffs, i think banshees + macha may pretty good now, with that 75% damage reduction, almost like in dow2 with fortune.
Edit: it seems the dire avengers shields weren't nerfed as well, only the doctrine that give increased shields. Meh. So much for heavy nerfs.
Gorb
A 25% reduction in basic ranged DPS is an incredibly heavy nerf (from 40 to 30). That's a big number for any balance change.
jambai
Tacticals are now 1400hp, 40 DPS unit. Like I know their DPS was too low before (I've complained about it myself) but something about these numbers feels too much.
Katitof
Its not DPS reduction, its range reduction, notes are wrong.
Eldar are F&^%d vs marines as DAs can't take any punishment from tacticals and banshees melt on approach. You need to rely on reaper spam and heroes now.
You also can't leave webway area or you'll literally die instantly.
Gorb
The notes are wrong, or the change is bugged? A decrease in range is quite an appropriate nerf to be honest (it's what I would've preferred over a DPS reduction). Their shields also appear to be untouched; only the Doctrine enhancement has been nerfed?
Bersercker
Apparently thats an error in the patchnotes. At least the tooltips in the game still say that the DA have 40 ranged DPS, same as newly buffed tacticals. Saw someone write that its the range that was reduced not the dps, and i've got the same impression from playing a few matches. Not 100% sure though ofc.
Gorb
A range reduction is ideal; it forces them to trade their shield faster, and means they take longer to engage or disengage. This also weakens their interactions with powerful abilities like Stasis because they have to get closer to set up around a frozen enemy.
I still wish the overall shield mechanics for the faction had been tweaked, but it's a good start.
Fww
Sure m8, big damage and health nerf to your main unit, can't push in early game because of no fleet of foot and without it you are just paper.
Scorpions are just shittier version of storm boys
Hellhound
Look guys the eldar are not behind the curve now they really arent. DA did get hit too hard but those other units that are "so bad"....really arent. They were simply overshadowed.
Try this. Rather then build only DA or only rangers build a mix. Build one ranger. Use them to scout and spot places to teleport barracks. Build a webway network dont just teleport the same one. Build a couple dark reapers. They can fire beyond their own sight thus why youve got a scout. Build a banshee squad or two. Hide them in stealth cover near where your reapers are firing so they ambush enemies trying to rush your reapers. Even easier when you link webway to barracks to teleport banshees into the stealth cover. This works especially well against resource points as the point cant fire back against the reaper who does true damage. If they bring tacs up you got a banshee ambush and your ranger saw them coming. If its assault marines switch out banshees for DA, grenade and barrage the assault marines as they land.
Eldar units work best together, not in spam. Hell even with the buffs tacs work best in unison with other units, not spammed. Orks spam, thats their thing. Cant wait for people to stop playing spam-dar.
jambai
Tireless is out-of-battle mobility, it's nowhere comparable to webway speed. Slow death is a bit too much (vehicle immobility is unnecessary) I give you that.
Skemooo
give it a week before you cry for balance.. they took a lot of time to release this patch .. you guys are judging it in hours thats not fair.. its just a change of playstyles adapt and see what you can do different instead of screaming about numbers within hours of release..
Fww
Do you even play the game?
Orks would just bomb and throw melee units on your DR, SM would jump or drop a banner on them and their tacts got granades too.
Even if they can't do any of this they always can just walk away from DR.
Hellhound
First off if you are refering to ork trucks bombarding you.....and you do have scouts.....why werent you shooting it first. Second if you do see this truck coming, why werent you using fleet of foot to back away. Preferably into additional fire from either your allies or crossfire from your units. I already addressed what happens when one or even two assault marines jump you. Pick a supporting unit in the nearby stealth and bleed the assault marines. Also DO YOU HAVE A SCOUT to see the assault marines coming. If they drop pod in without help they die. If you let the SM coordinate a drop pod plus ground engagement plus banner drop on you, and you havent backed the ++heresy redacted++ up using fleet of foot then you missed the run part of hit and run. Also tac grenades are a short range low damage disruption doctrine that only works while you hold still. Again i stress the movement part of hit and run. You do not trade shots. Find a weakness, punish them vanish, eldar still unmatched in the dps department. DA still 40 dps not 30. Finally just walking away from reapers doesnt help. Theyll just shoot something else of yours.
None of this takes into account possible elites on either side or the cd of the abilities being used to try and stop the eldar player either.
Darkstirling
I agree with this for the most part, but some of the changes anyone should be able to tell are bad balance
For example, the new improved webway gate. The only thing I can think of for this heavy of a nerf, is that they do not want people using this doctrine, but couldn't create a replacement in time for the patch. There is no way they could've thought that webway gates getting a bit of extra healing would in any way justify taking this as one of your valuable doctrine slots
Stoner
Do Tacs feel more viable to you, people?
With current pacing, I can technically go T2 faster, because main point building armory was Power Swords. Now, since they moved to T2, I get 50+ req for faster tier and losing Flamers/Plasma upgrade capability, also since more req, I can upgrade Power Nodes earlier. I've been using Tacs (2-3 squads), but I didn't notice any significant improvement on their part. Going ASM/Scouts still has its merits I think, but jump nerf is rather crippling.
jambai
Webway is not only "map PRESENCE" but works in combat too to kite the enemy got it?