Grenade and shield wall

CANNED_F3TUS

This thread is here to talk about the Space marine doctrine that lets you field grenades and shieldwall for devs.

In my oppinion atm grenade doctrine is pretty weak choice for SM. Its more of a knock back tool than a damage tool. So if thats what is intended by relic than ok.

Great but comparing the grenades to all the other grenades that Dire avengers and shoota boyz get. Their grenades do decent to incredible damage and knockback and dont even need to spend a doctrine slot to have good grenades.

Oppinions?

Shield Wall.

Shieldwall gives your devestators a shield after having your devs stationary for like 8 seconds. Most engagements are almost over or decided after that and your devs will be nuked or already knee deep in melee units at that point. The best way to use shieldwall i suppose is having the devs set up before hand if you have an inkling that you are about to get attacked but i feel like they could reduce the time it takes to setup shield maybe 4 seconds after setup? How do you guys feel about it?

Im also aware that SM are atm one of the strongest T 1 ranged units in the game and some doctrines need to get toned down for them. Just trying to see how peeps feel about the other not so much used doctrines.

Stoner

SM nades are trash, I think everyone knows it by now, effect certainly not worth whole doctrine slot when there are so better ones.

Shield wall is funny, this game is all about mobility, I keep redeploying Devs every 2-3 seconds, and baiting enemy (which goes to flank) requires lots of redeploying too, so 8 secs of shield on unit that is useless in melee... How did they even think it could be useful?

CANNED_F3TUS

@Stoner said:
SM nades are trash, I think everyone knows it by now, effect certainly not worth whole doctrine slot when there are so better ones.

Shield wall is funny, this game is all about mobility, I keep redeploying Devs every 2-3 seconds, and baiting enemy (which goes to flank) requires lots of redeploying too, so 8 secs of shield on unit that is useless in melee... How did they even think it could be useful?

So you suggest shield wall to be instant? I was gonna go for that but i aint sure if that would be balanced maybe 2 seconds?

MajBumWhistler

Grenades are for me a go to pick after the buff to tacticals. They help disrupt and help disengage. They are certainly worth the doctrine slot (Assault Terminators). This is in 1v1's so I never get that third elite out.

Shield Wall is very situational and as the OP says its not a huge deal after the ASM nerf (the spam has significantly dropped). Maybe late game or sieging turrets and shield generators but I've found by the time I'm ready to start pushing turrets I have land speeders out and all manner of stuff that again makes the small shield they recieve redundant.

Stoner

@CANNED_F3TUS said:

@Stoner said:
SM nades are trash, I think everyone knows it by now, effect certainly not worth whole doctrine slot when there are so better ones.

Shield wall is funny, this game is all about mobility, I keep redeploying Devs every 2-3 seconds, and baiting enemy (which goes to flank) requires lots of redeploying too, so 8 secs of shield on unit that is useless in melee... How did they even think it could be useful?

So you suggest shield wall to be instant? I was gonna go for that but i aint sure if that would be balanced maybe 2 seconds?

Well, I don't know, 2 secs might do it, but 8 is plain too long.

Regarding grenades again. They might give tiny edge to SM very early in the game, but I always drag along few Scouts who have free STUN grenades, which are useful throughout the game. That aside from the fact I always have some ASM in army for disruption, thus nade doctrine is truly a waste.

MajBumWhistler

@Stoner said:

@CANNED_F3TUS said:

@Stoner said:
SM nades are trash, I think everyone knows it by now, effect certainly not worth whole doctrine slot when there are so better ones.

Shield wall is funny, this game is all about mobility, I keep redeploying Devs every 2-3 seconds, and baiting enemy (which goes to flank) requires lots of redeploying too, so 8 secs of shield on unit that is useless in melee... How did they even think it could be useful?

So you suggest shield wall to be instant? I was gonna go for that but i aint sure if that would be balanced maybe 2 seconds?

Well, I don't know, 2 secs might do it, but 8 is plain too long.

Regarding grenades again. They might give tiny edge to SM very early in the game, but I always drag along few Scouts who have free STUN grenades, which are useful throughout the game. That aside from the fact I always have some ASM in army for disruption, thus nade doctrine is truly a waste.

Grenade free, ASM 500 req and power I don't want to waste.

charlando

The grenade damage is really weak.

They're most useful for the knockback. To help with melee disengage. Or to force a squad to move and stop shooting.

You can combine them with the knockback from drop pods and the standard for some early crowd control.

And if you throw in one scout their grenade is more useful and adds another means for crowd control.

Stoner

@MajBumWhistler said:

@Stoner said:

@CANNED_F3TUS said:

@Stoner said:
SM nades are trash, I think everyone knows it by now, effect certainly not worth whole doctrine slot when there are so better ones.

Shield wall is funny, this game is all about mobility, I keep redeploying Devs every 2-3 seconds, and baiting enemy (which goes to flank) requires lots of redeploying too, so 8 secs of shield on unit that is useless in melee... How did they even think it could be useful?

So you suggest shield wall to be instant? I was gonna go for that but i aint sure if that would be balanced maybe 2 seconds?

Well, I don't know, 2 secs might do it, but 8 is plain too long.

Regarding grenades again. They might give tiny edge to SM very early in the game, but I always drag along few Scouts who have free STUN grenades, which are useful throughout the game. That aside from the fact I always have some ASM in army for disruption, thus nade doctrine is truly a waste.

Grenade free, ASM 500 req and power I don't want to waste.

Sure, but even while ASM are heavily nerfed, I cannot play without them, because I feel somewhat toothless, lol.

Praxis

I use shield wall, having a shield on devastators makes them ridiculously durable they need to have a long set up time. You just need to be smart with how you position them.