@Kat_RE I appreciate the update. You guys say you hope to share more with us soon. Is that a Roadmap or something along those lines? Is soon about as specific as you can get? I know you don't want to give info that may end up changing but even a rough estimate would be greatly appreciated.
@Kat_RE said: @Don_Zauser We have tentative plans to do an adjustment in July, and are looking at ways to test balance changes with you before they go live.
First off, thank you very much for this update. This will add a lot more content to the game, which is super exciting!
If you're looking for ideas on how to early test changes, when I was an Eve Online player they had a test server with changes already done while keeping the normal game untouched till those changes hit. Perhaps you could make a small Test Mod that players can use for DoW3?
Another option is to just early-release a balance patch to a couple of trusted members of the community and give them a couple days to write up their thoughts. Off the top of my head, Vindicare, Cataclaw and Bikerush are some pretty good and vocal players in the community. The exact selection could be up to you, but the idea is pretty clear.
As a last note, the last major issues I have is the lack of observer mode and a ladder system. Relic putting out regular updates is very encouraging though, so I would humbly ask for observer and ladder to be the next priority after the likely balance patch in July.
Good show Relic. Annihilation will be a good addition looking forward to it. I must admit that this game went across the grain for me when I started out because it wasn't what I was used to, then I remembered when I first played DoW1, I was like wt.. is this?? I was also the last person in the Winter Assault old online game forum as it closed for the last time, an era passed. I am enjoying the game and getting better at using all abilities even in the heat of large battles. There are balancing issues perhaps but I think that it could be a trap to try and make everything too "equal" as it will stop people from thinking and finding a decent counter. Haters will hate but I think it is partially due to the fear of the unknown. Point is, imo I think it could be a bad thing to be swayed by the crowd too much, let the new be new. Just ban anyone from posting who has less than 50hrs of game play (hehe jk).
@PhilthyPhilPhD said: @Kat_RE I appreciate the update. You guys say you hope to share more with us soon. Is that a Roadmap or something along those lines? Is soon about as specific as you can get? I know you don't want to give info that may end up changing but even a rough estimate would be greatly appreciated.
I don't think people understand how much effort creating and maintaining a community roadmap is. If I was relic I would look to other companies like Tripwire(which I think might be about the same size as Relic). They have a development trello board that highlights exactly what they are working on. They also have about the same amount of players as Relic does.
@halla4763 On UI improvement, this is something we've been talking A LOT about. We've got some newer additions to the studio (fresh perspective!) who have been looking at all of the systems since launch. We're not ready to share their work yet, but they're giving us lots to think about behind the scenes.
Turrets have to be free to build in this Annihilation mode, without having to use a doctrine slot. In the case, put a cap as in DOW1, like max 6 turrets to build.
Kat_RE, will there will be new factions, and if yes, then when and which new faction will be first? Personally I would like to see every faction especially Tau and Tyranids, but I suppose that the first will be probably Necrons, due to the hint. Just curious.
@jonoliveira12 said:
Better than I expected, thanks Relic.
Now if only you coyld look at that Eldar T1 frailty...
I see nobody streaming eldar at all except vindi and he tends to play 1-2 games eldar - starts raging. Than plays Sm and wins almost all.
Yep, that is because all it takes to kill Eldar early is 3Tacts (one with Flamer) and Tireless, or just 2 ASM squads. Very early T1 is a nightmare for Eldar, specially after they force you to retreat, and just snipe you shield, getting a large resource boost from it, and proceding to just roflstomp you afterwards without any effort because you are already so far behind.
@PhilthyPhilPhD said: @Kat_RE I appreciate the update. You guys say you hope to share more with us soon. Is that a Roadmap or something along those lines?
We're working on it but, as you can imagine, it's complicated. There are lots of conversations happening behind the scenes. For now, I'm focused on getting lots of input from you guys and bringing it back to the team. You guys have a strong voice!
Sounds awesome. I honestly think balance is pretty overrated, I would even say that balance doesn't really matter at all unless you play under the top 100 people. A content patch like this will hopefully make a lot more players returning to the game.
Maybe give Eldar a slight buff to help them, so they don't get too frustrated until the next balance patch arrives.
@Creature said:
How many players is this new map for? I'd really like to see a new 2v2 map...
Mortis Vale will come in both 2v2 and 3v3. The map itself is the same, but objective locations are different in both versions to accommodate. With this map, we're looking to create a bigger feel - but that would be more evident in the 2v2 than the 3v3 since there's less players involved.
@Fitness_Lauch said:
Sounds awesome. I honestly think balance is pretty overrated, I would even say that balance doesn't really matter at all unless you play under the top 100 people. A content patch like this will hopefully make a lot more players returning to the game.
Maybe give Eldar a slight buff to help them, so they don't get too frustrated until the next balance patch arrives.
Normally I would agree with you, but this game is mostly multiplayer, and when one faction has such a hard time so early, it has a very bad problem that needs to be addressed.
@LeemanRuss said:
any glimpse of hope seeing Necrons or chaos or IG soon KAT_RE
We’re not sure. We’re still processing launch feedback and figuring out how that changes where we go from here. Producing a full army with Elites and abilities would have to be prioritized over months of other work. Obviously we’d love to make it happen but we need to figure out where our time is best spent based on the feedback so far.
Good thing: Relic aren't held hostage by Sega and aren't abducted by aliens. It's like a weight of the world from my shoulders.
Bad things:
1). Annihilation mode. Why? Turrets. I can't be sure yet, but I just have a bad feeling about this. Really sorry, didn't want to be a downer, although I screamed "Annihilation Mode" probably louder than anyone else on this forum, but Turrets might kill it, unless:
They would be very expensive or have strong counterplay.
There would be Anni mode without turrets, like they did say there would be couple of them, aye?
2). No word about further balance fixes.
3). Better idea would be spending time and resources on Observer mode first, than new game modes. This game seriously need building community and fast. Koreans said it, I shout about it since release and everyone agrees.
4). No word on short term QoL updates. That's disturbing.
People wants eldar weak, eldar was nerfed. People want annihilation, turtling annihilation is going to live...
I don t feel like a great news. It sounds boring arty mode for me... But people seems to like old boring crazy stuff. Just play bridge of helios and you have your annhiliation silly Map. Powercore is annhiliation..
People cries give me content for my enormous spent money, they already play more than 100hours on this game as a lot of same price games get less than 20 hours to be forgotten....
Crazy community;), Relic listen to you. People is going to whine about something else 20 june. Crazy World
So for me, just wait and see... May be it s going better than i think... Sorry, no native language
@Stoner said:
1). Annihilation mode. Why? Turrets. I can't be sure yet, but I just have a bad feeling about this. Really sorry, didn't want to be a downer, although I screamed "Annihilation Mode" probably louder than anyone else on this forum, but Turrets might kill it, unless:
They would be very expensive or have strong counterplay.
There would be Anni mode without turrets, like they did say there would be couple of them, aye?
Hmmmm........What I know that turrets will be availible though doctrine system, also what's more, they will take population, so who knows? Maybe they won't be as much spammed.
Me too happy to see Relic staff here, but I would like to see new factions too.
@Stoner said:
Good thing: Relic aren't held hostage by Sega and aren't abducted by aliens. It's like a weight of the world from my shoulders.
Bad things:
1). Annihilation mode. Why? Turrets. I can't be sure yet, but I just have a bad feeling about this. Really sorry, didn't want to be a downer, although I screamed "Annihilation Mode" probably louder than anyone else on this forum, but Turrets might kill it, unless:
They would be very expensive or have strong counterplay.
There would be Anni mode without turrets, like they did say there would be couple of them, aye?
2). No word about further balance fixes.
3). Better idea would be spending time and resources on Observer mode first, than new game modes. This game seriously need building community and fast. Koreans said it, I shout about it since release and everyone agrees.
4). No word on short term QoL updates. That's disturbing.
All-in-all, I'm glad Relic is still with us.
Read the whole thread, maybe you'll see Kat actually did say something about balance changes.
@Stoner said:
Good thing: Relic aren't held hostage by Sega and aren't abducted by aliens. It's like a weight of the world from my shoulders.
Bad things:
1). Annihilation mode. Why? Turrets. I can't be sure yet, but I just have a bad feeling about this. Really sorry, didn't want to be a downer, although I screamed "Annihilation Mode" probably louder than anyone else on this forum, but Turrets might kill it, unless:
They would be very expensive or have strong counterplay.
There would be Anni mode without turrets, like they did say there would be couple of them, aye?
2). No word about further balance fixes.
3). Better idea would be spending time and resources on Observer mode first, than new game modes. This game seriously need building community and fast. Koreans said it, I shout about it since release and everyone agrees.
4). No word on short term QoL updates. That's disturbing.
All-in-all, I'm glad Relic is still with us.
Annihilation mode has been a popular request since people were told Power Core was the only mode available at launch. That is most likely why Opinion post.
Annihilation... to be honest I'm not sure about it. I mean, I would be fine with removing just the power core and making the stronghold THE building to destroy - turrets and shield gens can stay or can go, I don't mind either option. But what I'm afraid of is having to destroy EVERY SINGLE building of the enemy. I can already see teleporting bonesingers or invisible gretchin trolololing around the map building the newly introduced turrets or whatever in the invisible covers or something... Also - why only in custom mode?
@Stoner said:
Good thing: Relic aren't held hostage by Sega and aren't abducted by aliens. It's like a weight of the world from my shoulders.
Bad things:
1). Annihilation mode. Why? Turrets. I can't be sure yet, but I just have a bad feeling about this. Really sorry, didn't want to be a downer, although I screamed "Annihilation Mode" probably louder than anyone else on this forum, but Turrets might kill it, unless:
They would be very expensive or have strong counterplay.
There would be Anni mode without turrets, like they did say there would be couple of them, aye?
2). No word about further balance fixes.
3). Better idea would be spending time and resources on Observer mode first, than new game modes. This game seriously need building community and fast. Koreans said it, I shout about it since release and everyone agrees.
4). No word on short term QoL updates. That's disturbing.
All-in-all, I'm glad Relic is still with us.
Read the whole thread, maybe you'll see Kat actually did say something about balance changes.
Yeah I did, nothing specific though, and since last patch, we REALLY need to know what they're up to, and preferably to post their ideas before implementing them. Now, that would be just great.
@Quitt said:
Annihilation... to be honest I'm not sure about it. I mean, I would be fine with removing just the power core and making the stronghold THE building to destroy - turrets and shield gens can stay or can go, I don't mind either option. But what I'm afraid of is having to destroy EVERY SINGLE building of the enemy. I can already see teleporting bonesingers or invisible gretchin trolololing around the map building the newly introduced turrets or whatever in the invisible covers or something... Also - why only in custom mode?
You can still play power core mode though but the issue is whether power core mode or annihilation mode will become the core mode of this game.
By the way, I know others feel differently, but me and my brother have been loving the game.
The things I bumped into were the strength of certain units, but the latest balance patch went a long way in helping Tac Marines and other units, and nerfing Assault Marines enough to promote having multiple units. My brother did remark that he felt an early game loss of units was hard to come back from, but maybe there are tips and things we overlook. I'm not the best player, so I might not see all the nuances like the dev team or higher ranked players can. I also feel like it can be easier to mass units at times, like mass scouts early game. I don't feel this is on the extreme end of things, though, but maybe more balance patches will help with that. Also, I feel when playing with friends/family (competitive, but not too competitive), the game works more than fine. AI is a little too easy though, even on hard. But good for farming skulls.
Either way, I thought the campaign was enjoyable and a good way to unlock a lot of stuff. I don't mind the skull system. Sure it'd be nice to have everything unlocked ala Overwatch, but the system is generous enough to unlock pretty much anything you might want, I feel. At the moment I've unlocked every doctrine for Space Marines and the elites for each faction. I do like leveling the Elites to gain new stuff and doctrines, though having everything unlocked would be nice too. Honestly, no issues with the whole Elites, Skull system or anything like that. Though I will mention that it doesn't bother me much, but higher point Elites see play a lot less, which makes sense, but it means the game tends to gravitate towards Elites with lower point values. Often games where the higher level Elites do enter play on both sides are awesome. The game has a good tension level, I feel. Especially when players are evenly matched.
As far as game modes- I really like power core, as it helps players like me that don't like the early rushes of some other RTS's. I like the breathing room. Yet turtling isn't huge either, which is nice. It feels kinetic. And I like having the objectives. I've won a few matches where my team was losing, by smartly applying the right forces during sneak attacks and making a comeback. Doesn't always work, but it's nice it's possible because of the game mode. More game modes is always nice, I feel. But personally, I think I'll mostly play power core. I like the ebb and flow of it, because of the Elites, the game mode, etc.
I hope the game doesn't get dropped by too many players and that new players will pick up the game as well. I'll be playing the game for a long time to come with enough content in the future.
Either way, I'm generally one of those players that doesn't really post on forums. I doubt I will do it much with this game. But I wanted to give some feedback and thanks, as it isn't the case that the game is a mess or bad or anything like that for all players. At least not me and my brother. In fact, I think it's a breath of fresh air and I like the differences between other RTS's. I feel it has potential too, to grow into an even better game. It definitely has its place among the RTS's I've played (and I've played most since the first C&C, albeit not too competitively). For information, the RTS's I played the last year are Wargame/Steel Division, Company of Heroes 2 and 8 Bit Armies.
Sorry for the long post, but I felt I wanted to add a counterpoint to some of the criticisms. As I feel this game stood out to me and still does.
So again, thanks for the new content and the game. Keep up the good work!
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Comments
PhilthyPhilPhD
@Kat_RE I appreciate the update. You guys say you hope to share more with us soon. Is that a Roadmap or something along those lines? Is soon about as specific as you can get? I know you don't want to give info that may end up changing but even a rough estimate would be greatly appreciated.
Atlas
First off, thank you very much for this update. This will add a lot more content to the game, which is super exciting!
If you're looking for ideas on how to early test changes, when I was an Eve Online player they had a test server with changes already done while keeping the normal game untouched till those changes hit. Perhaps you could make a small Test Mod that players can use for DoW3?
Another option is to just early-release a balance patch to a couple of trusted members of the community and give them a couple days to write up their thoughts. Off the top of my head, Vindicare, Cataclaw and Bikerush are some pretty good and vocal players in the community. The exact selection could be up to you, but the idea is pretty clear.
As a last note, the last major issues I have is the lack of observer mode and a ladder system. Relic putting out regular updates is very encouraging though, so I would humbly ask for observer and ladder to be the next priority after the likely balance patch in July.
Thank you for your work!
houndtide
Good show Relic. Annihilation will be a good addition looking forward to it. I must admit that this game went across the grain for me when I started out because it wasn't what I was used to, then I remembered when I first played DoW1, I was like wt.. is this?? I was also the last person in the Winter Assault old online game forum as it closed for the last time, an era passed. I am enjoying the game and getting better at using all abilities even in the heat of large battles. There are balancing issues perhaps but I think that it could be a trap to try and make everything too "equal" as it will stop people from thinking and finding a decent counter. Haters will hate but I think it is partially due to the fear of the unknown. Point is, imo I think it could be a bad thing to be swayed by the crowd too much, let the new be new. Just ban anyone from posting who has less than 50hrs of game play (hehe jk).
Bitterman
I don't think people understand how much effort creating and maintaining a community roadmap is. If I was relic I would look to other companies like Tripwire(which I think might be about the same size as Relic). They have a development trello board that highlights exactly what they are working on. They also have about the same amount of players as Relic does.
Kat_RE
@halla4763 On UI improvement, this is something we've been talking A LOT about. We've got some newer additions to the studio (fresh perspective!) who have been looking at all of the systems since launch. We're not ready to share their work yet, but they're giving us lots to think about behind the scenes.
Bicio
Turrets have to be free to build in this Annihilation mode, without having to use a doctrine slot. In the case, put a cap as in DOW1, like max 6 turrets to build.
thank you
Atramentar
It's really perfect RELIC !! This is a good way you know
For me this game is not balancing principaly due to Power Core Mods !
I hope you will can improve ressource system with this new mod
We need more base bulding and a better control of our resources
Thank you very much RELIC
jonoliveira12
Better than I expected, thanks Relic.
Now if only you could look at that Eldar T1 frailty...
Murador
I see nobody streaming eldar at all except vindi and he tends to play 1-2 games eldar - starts raging. Than plays Sm and wins almost all.
Draconix
I know it won't be probably happen, but........
Kat_RE, will there will be new factions, and if yes, then when and which new faction will be first? Personally I would like to see every faction especially Tau and Tyranids, but I suppose that the first will be probably Necrons, due to the hint. Just curious.
jonoliveira12
Yep, that is because all it takes to kill Eldar early is 3Tacts (one with Flamer) and Tireless, or just 2 ASM squads. Very early T1 is a nightmare for Eldar, specially after they force you to retreat, and just snipe you shield, getting a large resource boost from it, and proceding to just roflstomp you afterwards without any effort because you are already so far behind.
Kat_RE
We're working on it but, as you can imagine, it's complicated. There are lots of conversations happening behind the scenes. For now, I'm focused on getting lots of input from you guys and bringing it back to the team. You guys have a strong voice!
Fitness_Lauch
Sounds awesome. I honestly think balance is pretty overrated, I would even say that balance doesn't really matter at all unless you play under the top 100 people. A content patch like this will hopefully make a lot more players returning to the game.
Maybe give Eldar a slight buff to help them, so they don't get too frustrated until the next balance patch arrives.
Kat_RE
Mortis Vale will come in both 2v2 and 3v3. The map itself is the same, but objective locations are different in both versions to accommodate. With this map, we're looking to create a bigger feel - but that would be more evident in the 2v2 than the 3v3 since there's less players involved.
jonoliveira12
Normally I would agree with you, but this game is mostly multiplayer, and when one faction has such a hard time so early, it has a very bad problem that needs to be addressed.
Draconix
I would like to Relic staff answered my question in post #41 as well....... Oh well.
Wish to see new factions in this game...........
LeemanRuss
any glimpse of hope seeing Necrons or chaos or IG soon KAT_RE
Kat_RE
We’re not sure. We’re still processing launch feedback and figuring out how that changes where we go from here. Producing a full army with Elites and abilities would have to be prioritized over months of other work. Obviously we’d love to make it happen but we need to figure out where our time is best spent based on the feedback so far.
jessezen
Keep plugging away, guys!
Stoner
Good thing: Relic aren't held hostage by Sega and aren't abducted by aliens. It's like a weight of the world from my shoulders.
Bad things:
1). Annihilation mode. Why? Turrets. I can't be sure yet, but I just have a bad feeling about this. Really sorry, didn't want to be a downer, although I screamed "Annihilation Mode" probably louder than anyone else on this forum, but Turrets might kill it, unless:
2). No word about further balance fixes.
3). Better idea would be spending time and resources on Observer mode first, than new game modes. This game seriously need building community and fast. Koreans said it, I shout about it since release and everyone agrees.
4). No word on short term QoL updates. That's disturbing.
All-in-all, I'm glad Relic is still with us.
Runfree
People wants eldar weak, eldar was nerfed. People want annihilation, turtling annihilation is going to live...
I don t feel like a great news. It sounds boring arty mode for me... But people seems to like old boring crazy stuff. Just play bridge of helios and you have your annhiliation silly Map. Powercore is annhiliation..
People cries give me content for my enormous spent money, they already play more than 100hours on this game as a lot of same price games get less than 20 hours to be forgotten....
Crazy community;), Relic listen to you. People is going to whine about something else 20 june. Crazy World
So for me, just wait and see... May be it s going better than i think... Sorry, no native language
Draconix
Hmmmm........What I know that turrets will be availible though doctrine system, also what's more, they will take population, so who knows? Maybe they won't be as much spammed.
Me too happy to see Relic staff here, but I would like to see new factions too.
OriGinS
Read the whole thread, maybe you'll see Kat actually did say something about balance changes.
Gorb
Annihilation mode has been a popular request since people were told Power Core was the only mode available at launch. That is most likely why
Opinion post.
Quitt
Annihilation... to be honest I'm not sure about it. I mean, I would be fine with removing just the power core and making the stronghold THE building to destroy - turrets and shield gens can stay or can go, I don't mind either option. But what I'm afraid of is having to destroy EVERY SINGLE building of the enemy. I can already see teleporting bonesingers or invisible gretchin trolololing around the map building the newly introduced turrets or whatever in the invisible covers or something... Also - why only in custom mode?
Stoner
Yeah I did, nothing specific though, and since last patch, we REALLY need to know what they're up to, and preferably to post their ideas before implementing them. Now, that would be just great.
Ellie
this is pretty great. I'm excited, and glad you're all listening to feedback.
Alchemist13
Now if only they would get rid of doctrines it is such a lame system and limits the players choices.
AngelofDeth
You can still play power core mode though but the issue is whether power core mode or annihilation mode will become the core mode of this game.
ComradeThunder
Thanks for the update and content, Relic!
By the way, I know others feel differently, but me and my brother have been loving the game.
The things I bumped into were the strength of certain units, but the latest balance patch went a long way in helping Tac Marines and other units, and nerfing Assault Marines enough to promote having multiple units. My brother did remark that he felt an early game loss of units was hard to come back from, but maybe there are tips and things we overlook. I'm not the best player, so I might not see all the nuances like the dev team or higher ranked players can. I also feel like it can be easier to mass units at times, like mass scouts early game. I don't feel this is on the extreme end of things, though, but maybe more balance patches will help with that. Also, I feel when playing with friends/family (competitive, but not too competitive), the game works more than fine. AI is a little too easy though, even on hard. But good for farming skulls.
Either way, I thought the campaign was enjoyable and a good way to unlock a lot of stuff. I don't mind the skull system. Sure it'd be nice to have everything unlocked ala Overwatch, but the system is generous enough to unlock pretty much anything you might want, I feel. At the moment I've unlocked every doctrine for Space Marines and the elites for each faction. I do like leveling the Elites to gain new stuff and doctrines, though having everything unlocked would be nice too. Honestly, no issues with the whole Elites, Skull system or anything like that. Though I will mention that it doesn't bother me much, but higher point Elites see play a lot less, which makes sense, but it means the game tends to gravitate towards Elites with lower point values. Often games where the higher level Elites do enter play on both sides are awesome. The game has a good tension level, I feel. Especially when players are evenly matched.
As far as game modes- I really like power core, as it helps players like me that don't like the early rushes of some other RTS's. I like the breathing room. Yet turtling isn't huge either, which is nice. It feels kinetic. And I like having the objectives. I've won a few matches where my team was losing, by smartly applying the right forces during sneak attacks and making a comeback. Doesn't always work, but it's nice it's possible because of the game mode. More game modes is always nice, I feel. But personally, I think I'll mostly play power core. I like the ebb and flow of it, because of the Elites, the game mode, etc.
I hope the game doesn't get dropped by too many players and that new players will pick up the game as well. I'll be playing the game for a long time to come with enough content in the future.
Either way, I'm generally one of those players that doesn't really post on forums. I doubt I will do it much with this game. But I wanted to give some feedback and thanks, as it isn't the case that the game is a mess or bad or anything like that for all players. At least not me and my brother. In fact, I think it's a breath of fresh air and I like the differences between other RTS's. I feel it has potential too, to grow into an even better game. It definitely has its place among the RTS's I've played (and I've played most since the first C&C, albeit not too competitively). For information, the RTS's I played the last year are Wargame/Steel Division, Company of Heroes 2 and 8 Bit Armies.
Sorry for the long post, but I felt I wanted to add a counterpoint to some of the criticisms. As I feel this game stood out to me and still does.
So again, thanks for the new content and the game. Keep up the good work!
Ciao,
Sander