well judging from the last patch 1 hit from a sm turret will wipe out the planet , and the eldars will not be able to dent or scratch the paint of a sm
@tharrival said:
well judging from the last patch 1 hit from a sm turret will wipe out the planet , and the eldars will not be able to dent or scratch the paint of a sm
Last patch was indeed overboard, but Eldar mostly suffer in T1, T2 onwards they are OK.
The turrets are essentially buildable base turrets, but in order to build them you need to equip the doctrine. Each faction will have this option, and the doctrines will be given for free in the update.
To build them in-game, you need to select a builder unit and spend resources to start the build. You can place them anywhere you could make a building before, and there's no hard cap on how many you can have, but they will count towards your population. So if you decide to go full turtle-mode, you're trading resources and population that could have otherwise been spent on building a bigger army.
Annihilation comes in two flavors: Annihilation Classic and Annihilation with Defenses. The second mode, Annihilation with Defenses, starts you off with some turrets already built in pre-determined locations, regardless of whether or not you brought the doctrine to build more.
To my humble sense those are the good design choices.
Rather than giving the turrets as a free "guardrail gift" in the power core mode, Annihilation mode had to propose some defensive options. Rushes can be countered with basic population of course, but now the player also has a defensive choice with defensive buildings. It's great to see that this strategic choice is completely up to the player now, and comes with a cost. A doctrine slot, a financial cost, construction timings, a cost in population, allowing to construct many but at the cost of the troops capacity...That's great.
The player gains another layer of freedom and possible strategies. I'm eager to see how the new rush and defense tactics will articulate themselves!
Just a side question, now that the shield generators and turrets wont pay Elite points anymore, we'll have the automatic gain with time, and the resource point to keep. Are there some planned tweaks for the Elite points generation system in Annihilation mode? Like maybe when killing an opponent's Elite?
I even wonder if such a generation bonus would be necessary to be honest. Of course, the game course has to allow us to buy the 8-9 points elites, but well...If it was up to me, summoning and re-summoning Elites should have a financial cost as well.
I would love if we saw a bit more posts from you on forums. I'm really happy with what's going on right now with this info dump but a quick "we noticed" post in bug threads would make me sleep soundly at night.
@Ace40k said:
great plan ahead, Relic. and good job, Kat! really appreciate the update you have brought us!
however, i hope i get this right: these new turrets, will they be like buildable base turrets (like Waagh tower) but for all factions? (my most preferred option)
or will you place them somehow else?
or will you not place them at all and they are already pre-placed before match start? (least preferred)
The turrets are essentially buildable base turrets, but in order to build them you need to equip the doctrine. Each faction will have this option, and the doctrines will be given for free in the update.
To build them in-game, you need to select a builder unit and spend resources to start the build. You can place them anywhere you could make a building before, and there's no hard cap on how many you can have, but they will count towards your population. So if you decide to go full turtle-mode, you're trading resources and population that could have otherwise been spent on building a bigger army.
Annihilation comes in two flavors: Annihilation Classic and Annihilation with Defenses. The second mode, Annihilation with Defenses, starts you off with some turrets already built in pre-determined locations, regardless of whether or not you brought the doctrine to build more.
To my humble sense, those are the good design choices.
Now that we don't have a free "guardrail defensive gift" with the annihilation mode anymore, we had to find some defensive options. It's possible to counter a rush with population of course, but a defensive strategy is possible with buildings, and that's a strategic choice as the others. It must come at a cost.
A doctrine slot making defense better but troops weaker, a financial cost, a construction timing, no real number limit but the choice to trade some population for this defensive (or offensive via proxy or even ork-teleported turrets^^) option. I suppose constructors will be able to repair the turrets...
Now the player has another layer of freedom in his strategic choices, and that's great. I'm eager to see how the new rush tactics and defensive tactics will articulate themselves, either with the main base and the secondary ones!
Just out of curiosity, now that the Shield Generators and the turrets won't give Elite points in Annihilation mode, do you plan to tweak the Elite points generation somehow? Maybe when killing an opponent's elite?
Of course, the Annihilation game course and balance has to offer the possibility to buy the 8-9 points Elites, but, i even wonder if such tweaks would be necessary honestly. maybe just by tweaking the number and the income of the elite resource node. If it was for me, summoning and re-summoning elites should have a financial cost as well. And recover this main pop "support role" they had in DoW1, a bit more than today.
I'm very pleased by the news anyway. Thanks to establish such a discussion link with the community Kat. Really appreciated.
At first I want to thank Relic for listening to the feedback so much. It is a good feeling to know to be heard and that you care about it.
I like the Annihilation mode mode and even more the turrets (now if we can also manually build the HQ, the building options would be comparable to DoW1).
For me, and many others I know, whats still missing now would be a FFA Annihilation mode with also an option of a victory point victory, just as DoW1 had.
A big map, 8 players, everyone against everyone always lead to a lot of fun. It is this kind of mode i miss most, as I am not so much of a competitive player but one who loves to have fun.
Other than that, new elites and factions would be very important to gave soon to ensure variety. For me, much more important than balance or UI.
By the way. What happend to howling banshee quick strike's knock up properties? I remember it had knock up in the prerelease preview and howling banshees themselves in game state in tooltip that they can use quick strike to knock enemies up. The lack of it is a bug or intended?
Thank You Relic.
We appreciate that you are not giving up, and are making some changes.
I personally do thank you for your time and effort into making this game.
I do want you to succeed and I am sure others do as well.
I saw lots of potential in the game from the beginning.
But with 229 hours in so far, I can see some serious flaws.
Yes these changes are a start.
It must be hard to bend in changing your overall Game Design.
IMO- you all meant well, but again there are some serious flaws from what I can see.
The Balance Issues can be fixed.
e.g. the DA Range brought back to 40; reduce their dps or increase their heating cool down time.
e.g. the 100 Range of the Warp for the Bonesinger brought back; leave the change of this ability staring on cool down.
The Pacing Issues can be fixed.
---Recent patch Economy changes seem too drastic, early game is severely diminished
---Game plays so fast now that combined with the Design of Weak Line Units it feels “Super Mario Style” spammy.
I know this was to counter the severe sense of lost in the early game, but this goes in line with the weak line units which you all appear to really like.
The Core Game Design Issue I see: Less Strategic Options/Freedom During a Match.
---IMO- you are limited with the Army Doctrine System.
---The end result is you have less strategic options available during each match and thus it feels like the only focus you have is this “fast-pace” “micro-intense” “Super Mario Style Spammy” RTS.
---Even the turrets as an Army Doctrine seems lame considering you have to select it as one of only 6 Research Options or you are given some at the start of the game which “also” feels like you have less freedom of choices.
1) More Modes (VP, Annihilation)
---Thank you (6-20-17.)
**2) Army Doctrines **
---This might be a drastic change that you may never consider.
---But to see these all available in each match via a Tech Tree System like COH 1 would rock. To me this is a better option than just making them all available as building upgrades.
3) Elite Units
---This too might be a drastic change that you may never consider.
For all Elite Units to be available in each match divided into a system with something like- HQ, Elite, Colossal.
---Only 1 each of the HQ but more than 1 each of the others.
---Balance as such; each Elite Unit Costs: Elite Points/Requisition/Power.
---Make so even though they would all be available, but in no way would you ever be able to spam a lot of them.
e.g. you might get 2 Colossal Units in game like you could before the patch if the game went on long enough, but instead of a Paladin & Solaria, you could have 2 Paladins. Add a Imperial Warden/Crusader as a place holder name for Solaria, and Keep Solaria as a special one time character but with the same attributes as the Warden/Crusader.
**4) Line Units **
---Could be stronger health wise
---Would you ever consider increasing the size of the squads on top of making them stronger health wise (e.g. a 10 man Tactical Squad but only 5 get the Plasma Gun upgrade?)
---With the Economy brought back closer to pre-patch this could mitigate what felt like such severe early game loses, but also bring back what some consider a much better/slower early game.
---Elite Units balanced accordingly (more in line with taking tons of punishment, but not wiping out 5 squads with one ability / post-patch does seem slightly better with this.
**5) Buildings to occupy as an additional Cover Mechanic. **
---It might be too hard to code it like COH 1 had it.
---But maybe allow it so the units appear at the top (Roof) of the building in a square or round shape.; regardless if it has 2,3, or more floors.
---Make it so one unit from each faction has bonus damage to units in the Building Cover (e.g. Sniper Scouts, Rangers, Tank Bustas.)
--- Make it so Elite Units can’t spam their “One Shot-5 Squads almost Dead” abilities (e.g. Weirdbot’s Fist of Gork, or Rohan’s Long Shot) Would be nice to see this stopped with the bubble Cover as well.
--- Make so the building would have to be destroyed which would take some time, units taking minimal to no damage and the units with bonus damage vs. buildings doing their job, making things go slightly faster.
@Ace40k said:
great plan ahead, Relic. and good job, Kat! really appreciate the update you have brought us!
however, i hope i get this right: these new turrets, will they be like buildable base turrets (like Waagh tower) but for all factions? (my most preferred option)
or will you place them somehow else?
or will you not place them at all and they are already pre-placed before match start? (least preferred)
The turrets are essentially buildable base turrets, but in order to build them you need to equip the doctrine. Each faction will have this option, and the doctrines will be given for free in the update.
To build them in-game, you need to select a builder unit and spend resources to start the build. You can place them anywhere you could make a building before, and there's no hard cap on how many you can have, but they will count towards your population. So if you decide to go full turtle-mode, you're trading resources and population that could have otherwise been spent on building a bigger army.
Annihilation comes in two flavors: Annihilation Classic and Annihilation with Defenses. The second mode, Annihilation with Defenses, starts you off with some turrets already built in pre-determined locations, regardless of whether or not you brought the doctrine to build more.
Why the doctrine slot?
This was a good move by relic to force players to make that strategic decision pre game to bring turrets along. There should be more doctrines like this IMO. Opens up new builds and players can figure out if they want to use turrets offensivly or defensivly.
Squad leaders- make units you care about more tanky, ( maybe make it so if the squad has a leader it has the ability to experience and level up which would slightly increase it's stats. Squad leaders should be really expensive so if you get one you want to keep him alive and if he dies that is going hurt that you lost such a expensive unit.
Chaos space Marines ( or necrons, I guess) with a campaign we're we get to play as them.
A conquest mode. ( Like in the dark crusade, but more in depth and fleshed out) maybe could collect wargear for your elites and level them up with skill points and skill trees to unlock abilities or passive buffs) just add some rpg elements to the game it worked great for dow 2. This mode could be separated from multiplayer and could make comp-stomps fun again, for the people that do not like to play competitively and just play to have fun.
Tone down resources gained in later exclaction phases it just become a boring spam fest of build all that I can as fast as I can because I have an obsene number of requestion and power
Sync-kills- please bring these back they were always cool even if I did lose control of my units for a bit, since I used chaos just figured the voices got him and he just do sluaghter units viciously. So u was always for "death to the false Emporer!!!)
Tone down elites a little bit they can be o.p. if you want, but they don't need to be this over powered as they are now, or make it so your base line units don't die quiet so fast
Git rid of the doctrine system it was a nice try but I just don't see how they can ever be able to balance it.
The turret doctrine will not be o.p. maybe in the first escalation phase but certainly not in phase 2 where walkers come more into play and some one could just take 3 dreadnought doctrines 4 with the elite one if they wanted to, what is a normal dmg turrets going to do then. It will just end being another useless doctrine which we already have so many of them. It should be replaced with some upgrades in game they would have to limit your upgrades in game some how. Maybe by upgrading requisition or power genterator a certain way.
@Grithok said:
That would be good but this is what I see happening.
Turrets become about the same or worse than listening posts. People no longer take the doctrine because lol why would you over anything else.
Thats why they will have to either A buff the listening post doctrines health or DPS to be far more significant than turret health or DPS or B play with population number on turrets. Kat said turrets cost population. You field more turrets 3 or 4 for example you are going to have a weaker army and turrets have the innate weakness of being immobile costing a crap ton of money and by the looks of it only will be able to hold off early game units only for a matter of time. Listening post will still be a solid choice if they do it right (which they will eventually)
My predictions are that turrets will scale well early game and drop in effectivness mid to late game being nothing more than a speed bump or DPS support later but not being game changing.
@Grithok said:
That would be good but this is what I see happening.
Turrets become about the same or worse than listening posts. People no longer take the doctrine because lol why would you over anything else.
Thats why they will have to either A buff the listening post doctrines health or DPS to be far more significant than turret health or DPS or B play with population number on turrets. Kat said turrets cost population. You field more turrets 3 or 4 for example you are going to have a weaker army and turrets have the innate weakness of being immobile costing a crap ton of money and by the looks of it only will be able to hold off early game units only for a matter of time. Listening post will still be a solid choice if they do it right (which they will eventually)
My predictions are that turrets will scale well early game and drop in effectivness mid to late game being nothing more than a speed bump or DPS support later but not being game changing.
That is my guess aswell, because , being honest, late game has a lot of artillery play, and something static will have trouble staying alive.
It is also possible that they are not affected by upgrades, but also get the bonus building HP from Escalation Phases.
@CANNED_F3TUS said:
This was a good move by relic to force players to make that strategic decision pre game to bring turrets along. There should be more doctrines like this IMO. Opens up new builds and players can figure out if they want to use turrets offensivly or defensivly.
I agree there should be more doctrines like this. I quite like the potential this system has. Just a thought perhaps a tiered or requirement system of doctrines to bring in more powerful abilities (to not take away from being able to tele rangers to stealth cover and the like) or a doctrine that makes available to build a structure to bring in a unique unit and another idea, an elite that enables another doctrine slot.... Perhaps if Relic were interested a thread could be started for new doctrine ideas. Probably thinking too far ahead with many other things more of a priority but I do enjoy options.
Looking forward to the potential rush element being brought back (a base not just points) with the annihilation mode and to killing those that think that turret farming will save them.
I don't think anyone will turret farm, since artillery will probably just make turrets useless in lategame.
Turrets will most likely be used as a way to punish T1 over-aggression, or as support to hold out points.
I also would not be surprised if we see some "siege" turrets, being used to help contain someone in their base or natural resource points.
Amazing step in the right direction and the new game mode is very welcome, i had a question. in the power core mode buildings in my opinion dont have much health and are quickly taken out. is there any diffrence in health for the new game mode?
also will the doctrines that affect the turrets currently (more health and DPS doctrine and the reinforcements doctrine) also affect the buildable turrets that are coming in the update?
@jonoliveira12 said:
I don't think anyone will turret farm, since artillery will probably just make turrets useless in lategame.
Turrets will most likely be used as a way to punish T1 over-aggression, or as support to hold out points.
I also would not be surprised if we see some "siege" turrets, being used to help contain someone in their base or natural resource points.
Yeah turret sieging will be a valid strat and quite annoying if not dealt with quickly. But those strats can backfire as well if relic prices the turret right.
Turrets should be pricey and losing them early game should be quite a set back in tech and units.
(Also i hope relic doesnt make turrets give a refund when destroyed that would be OP)
Menu
Comments
tharrival
well judging from the last patch 1 hit from a sm turret will wipe out the planet , and the eldars will not be able to dent or scratch the paint of a sm
jonoliveira12
Last patch was indeed overboard, but Eldar mostly suffer in T1, T2 onwards they are OK.
Draconix
By the way, since turret doctrine will be avalible in all multiplayer modes, those that mean they will be in Power Core as well?
In that case, that will be interesting to me, to bolster defenses of objectives with turrets.
Kat_RE
Yes, you can take them into Power Core too!
Megiddo
To my humble sense those are the good design choices.
Rather than giving the turrets as a free "guardrail gift" in the power core mode, Annihilation mode had to propose some defensive options. Rushes can be countered with basic population of course, but now the player also has a defensive choice with defensive buildings. It's great to see that this strategic choice is completely up to the player now, and comes with a cost. A doctrine slot, a financial cost, construction timings, a cost in population, allowing to construct many but at the cost of the troops capacity...That's great.
The player gains another layer of freedom and possible strategies. I'm eager to see how the new rush and defense tactics will articulate themselves!
Just a side question, now that the shield generators and turrets wont pay Elite points anymore, we'll have the automatic gain with time, and the resource point to keep. Are there some planned tweaks for the Elite points generation system in Annihilation mode? Like maybe when killing an opponent's Elite?
I even wonder if such a generation bonus would be necessary to be honest. Of course, the game course has to allow us to buy the 8-9 points elites, but well...If it was up to me, summoning and re-summoning Elites should have a financial cost as well.
Great work guys, i'm really pleased by the news.
Guziol
I would love if we saw a bit more posts from you on forums. I'm really happy with what's going on right now with this info dump but a quick "we noticed" post in bug threads would make me sleep soundly at night.
Megiddo
To my humble sense, those are the good design choices.
Now that we don't have a free "guardrail defensive gift" with the annihilation mode anymore, we had to find some defensive options. It's possible to counter a rush with population of course, but a defensive strategy is possible with buildings, and that's a strategic choice as the others. It must come at a cost.
A doctrine slot making defense better but troops weaker, a financial cost, a construction timing, no real number limit but the choice to trade some population for this defensive (or offensive via proxy or even ork-teleported turrets^^) option. I suppose constructors will be able to repair the turrets...
Now the player has another layer of freedom in his strategic choices, and that's great. I'm eager to see how the new rush tactics and defensive tactics will articulate themselves, either with the main base and the secondary ones!
Just out of curiosity, now that the Shield Generators and the turrets won't give Elite points in Annihilation mode, do you plan to tweak the Elite points generation somehow? Maybe when killing an opponent's elite?
Of course, the Annihilation game course and balance has to offer the possibility to buy the 8-9 points Elites, but, i even wonder if such tweaks would be necessary honestly. maybe just by tweaking the number and the income of the elite resource node. If it was for me, summoning and re-summoning elites should have a financial cost as well. And recover this main pop "support role" they had in DoW1, a bit more than today.
I'm very pleased by the news anyway. Thanks to establish such a discussion link with the community Kat. Really appreciated.
GauntZero
At first I want to thank Relic for listening to the feedback so much. It is a good feeling to know to be heard and that you care about it.
I like the Annihilation mode mode and even more the turrets (now if we can also manually build the HQ, the building options would be comparable to DoW1).
For me, and many others I know, whats still missing now would be a FFA Annihilation mode with also an option of a victory point victory, just as DoW1 had.
A big map, 8 players, everyone against everyone always lead to a lot of fun. It is this kind of mode i miss most, as I am not so much of a competitive player but one who loves to have fun.
Other than that, new elites and factions would be very important to gave soon to ensure variety. For me, much more important than balance or UI.
Pringworm
Is thier damage output similer to outposts, or more like T1 ranged squads.
Ekko_Tek
Is the new map for 1v1, 2v2 or 3v3?
jonoliveira12
I think the update says for 2v2 and 3v3.
CANNED_F3TUS
I like the fact that you have to make a strategical choice to bring turrets into the game.
We need more doctrines like this that are not necessarily No brainers but choices!
Guziol
By the way. What happend to howling banshee quick strike's knock up properties? I remember it had knock up in the prerelease preview and howling banshees themselves in game state in tooltip that they can use quick strike to knock enemies up. The lack of it is a bug or intended?
CANNED_F3TUS
Also like the look of the map (well what i can see.) It looks more open and not bottlenecked entirely. Good job!
KPMaker
Thank You Relic.
We appreciate that you are not giving up, and are making some changes.
I personally do thank you for your time and effort into making this game.
I do want you to succeed and I am sure others do as well.
I saw lots of potential in the game from the beginning.
But with 229 hours in so far, I can see some serious flaws.
Yes these changes are a start.
It must be hard to bend in changing your overall Game Design.
IMO- you all meant well, but again there are some serious flaws from what I can see.
The Balance Issues can be fixed.
e.g. the DA Range brought back to 40; reduce their dps or increase their heating cool down time.
e.g. the 100 Range of the Warp for the Bonesinger brought back; leave the change of this ability staring on cool down.
The Pacing Issues can be fixed.
---Recent patch Economy changes seem too drastic, early game is severely diminished
---Game plays so fast now that combined with the Design of Weak Line Units it feels “Super Mario Style” spammy.
I know this was to counter the severe sense of lost in the early game, but this goes in line with the weak line units which you all appear to really like.
The Core Game Design Issue I see: Less Strategic Options/Freedom During a Match.
---IMO- you are limited with the Army Doctrine System.
---The end result is you have less strategic options available during each match and thus it feels like the only focus you have is this “fast-pace” “micro-intense” “Super Mario Style Spammy” RTS.
---Even the turrets as an Army Doctrine seems lame considering you have to select it as one of only 6 Research Options or you are given some at the start of the game which “also” feels like you have less freedom of choices.
KPMaker
Some Other Suggestions:
1) More Modes (VP, Annihilation)
---Thank you (6-20-17.)
**2) Army Doctrines **
---This might be a drastic change that you may never consider.
---But to see these all available in each match via a Tech Tree System like COH 1 would rock. To me this is a better option than just making them all available as building upgrades.
3) Elite Units
---This too might be a drastic change that you may never consider.
For all Elite Units to be available in each match divided into a system with something like- HQ, Elite, Colossal.
---Only 1 each of the HQ but more than 1 each of the others.
---Balance as such; each Elite Unit Costs: Elite Points/Requisition/Power.
---Make so even though they would all be available, but in no way would you ever be able to spam a lot of them.
e.g. you might get 2 Colossal Units in game like you could before the patch if the game went on long enough, but instead of a Paladin & Solaria, you could have 2 Paladins. Add a Imperial Warden/Crusader as a place holder name for Solaria, and Keep Solaria as a special one time character but with the same attributes as the Warden/Crusader.
**4) Line Units **
---Could be stronger health wise
---Would you ever consider increasing the size of the squads on top of making them stronger health wise (e.g. a 10 man Tactical Squad but only 5 get the Plasma Gun upgrade?)
---With the Economy brought back closer to pre-patch this could mitigate what felt like such severe early game loses, but also bring back what some consider a much better/slower early game.
---Elite Units balanced accordingly (more in line with taking tons of punishment, but not wiping out 5 squads with one ability / post-patch does seem slightly better with this.
**5) Buildings to occupy as an additional Cover Mechanic. **
---It might be too hard to code it like COH 1 had it.
---But maybe allow it so the units appear at the top (Roof) of the building in a square or round shape.; regardless if it has 2,3, or more floors.
---Make it so one unit from each faction has bonus damage to units in the Building Cover (e.g. Sniper Scouts, Rangers, Tank Bustas.)
--- Make it so Elite Units can’t spam their “One Shot-5 Squads almost Dead” abilities (e.g. Weirdbot’s Fist of Gork, or Rohan’s Long Shot) Would be nice to see this stopped with the bubble Cover as well.
--- Make so the building would have to be destroyed which would take some time, units taking minimal to no damage and the units with bonus damage vs. buildings doing their job, making things go slightly faster.
jonoliveira12
I agree on this. Doctrines should give and make variety, not just be OP no brainer picks.
CANNED_F3TUS
This was a good move by relic to force players to make that strategic decision pre game to bring turrets along. There should be more doctrines like this IMO. Opens up new builds and players can figure out if they want to use turrets offensivly or defensivly.
Grithok
That would be good but this is what I see happening.
Turrets become about the same or worse than listening posts. People no longer take the doctrine because lol why would you over anything else.
Stoner
So, it comes down to strength and utility of those turrets. On paper this is good addition, but I would lie if I say I'm not concerned...
Alchemist13
Now all we need is:
Squad leaders- make units you care about more tanky, ( maybe make it so if the squad has a leader it has the ability to experience and level up which would slightly increase it's stats. Squad leaders should be really expensive so if you get one you want to keep him alive and if he dies that is going hurt that you lost such a expensive unit.
Chaos space Marines ( or necrons, I guess) with a campaign we're we get to play as them.
A conquest mode. ( Like in the dark crusade, but more in depth and fleshed out) maybe could collect wargear for your elites and level them up with skill points and skill trees to unlock abilities or passive buffs) just add some rpg elements to the game it worked great for dow 2. This mode could be separated from multiplayer and could make comp-stomps fun again, for the people that do not like to play competitively and just play to have fun.
Tone down resources gained in later exclaction phases it just become a boring spam fest of build all that I can as fast as I can because I have an obsene number of requestion and power
Sync-kills- please bring these back they were always cool even if I did lose control of my units for a bit, since I used chaos just figured the voices got him and he just do sluaghter units viciously. So u was always for "death to the false Emporer!!!)
Tone down elites a little bit they can be o.p. if you want, but they don't need to be this over powered as they are now, or make it so your base line units don't die quiet so fast
Git rid of the doctrine system it was a nice try but I just don't see how they can ever be able to balance it.
The turret doctrine will not be o.p. maybe in the first escalation phase but certainly not in phase 2 where walkers come more into play and some one could just take 3 dreadnought doctrines 4 with the elite one if they wanted to, what is a normal dmg turrets going to do then. It will just end being another useless doctrine which we already have so many of them. It should be replaced with some upgrades in game they would have to limit your upgrades in game some how. Maybe by upgrading requisition or power genterator a certain way.
CANNED_F3TUS
Thats why they will have to either A buff the listening post doctrines health or DPS to be far more significant than turret health or DPS or B play with population number on turrets. Kat said turrets cost population. You field more turrets 3 or 4 for example you are going to have a weaker army and turrets have the innate weakness of being immobile costing a crap ton of money and by the looks of it only will be able to hold off early game units only for a matter of time. Listening post will still be a solid choice if they do it right (which they will eventually)
My predictions are that turrets will scale well early game and drop in effectivness mid to late game being nothing more than a speed bump or DPS support later but not being game changing.
jonoliveira12
That is my guess aswell, because , being honest, late game has a lot of artillery play, and something static will have trouble staying alive.
It is also possible that they are not affected by upgrades, but also get the bonus building HP from Escalation Phases.
WarJester
Looking forward to this patch, it looks awesome
houndtide
I agree there should be more doctrines like this. I quite like the potential this system has. Just a thought perhaps a tiered or requirement system of doctrines to bring in more powerful abilities (to not take away from being able to tele rangers to stealth cover and the like) or a doctrine that makes available to build a structure to bring in a unique unit and another idea, an elite that enables another doctrine slot.... Perhaps if Relic were interested a thread could be started for new doctrine ideas. Probably thinking too far ahead with many other things more of a priority but I do enjoy options.
Looking forward to the potential rush element being brought back (a base not just points) with the annihilation mode and to killing those that think that turret farming will save them.
jonoliveira12
I don't think anyone will turret farm, since artillery will probably just make turrets useless in lategame.
Turrets will most likely be used as a way to punish T1 over-aggression, or as support to hold out points.
I also would not be surprised if we see some "siege" turrets, being used to help contain someone in their base or natural resource points.
FireScorpion
@Kat_RE
Amazing step in the right direction and the new game mode is very welcome, i had a question. in the power core mode buildings in my opinion dont have much health and are quickly taken out. is there any diffrence in health for the new game mode?
also will the doctrines that affect the turrets currently (more health and DPS doctrine and the reinforcements doctrine) also affect the buildable turrets that are coming in the update?
keep up the amazing work!!!
CANNED_F3TUS
Yeah turret sieging will be a valid strat and quite annoying if not dealt with quickly. But those strats can backfire as well if relic prices the turret right.
Turrets should be pricey and losing them early game should be quite a set back in tech and units.
(Also i hope relic doesnt make turrets give a refund when destroyed that would be OP)
JDizzleton
Thanks for the update! Looking forward to good things
MrBenis
Annihilation mode and turrets is a good first 2 steps towards Apocalypse sized maps.