The waaagh has ended

Northanui

For me anyway.

Went on a 6game losing streak as ork yesterday, all against space marines of course. I could have raged so hard I broke the keyboards and my hands, instead I decided instead it's time to uninstall.

In all 6 games I

-beat the SM in all early game battles
-used this advantage to harass generators to form a 2 or more power generator lead
-had far bigger army food-wise

-still lost of course in the final battle thanks to balanced lascannons completely melting any tech advantage I have and gabriel + whirlwhinds shitting on my entire army. No matter what composition I take.

There is only so many games I can take losing as Ork to Sm when I spent 1500-2000 more power than him before I lose my mind.
Because SM units are SO. MUCH. MORE. COST. EFFICIENT I literally can NOT ++heresy redacted++ win the final engagement.

So I'm out until they bring in a MAJOR balance patch. And I doubt the one Kat talked about in July will be major. It'll probably take another year and maybe when the new races arrives, the balance at least will shift up.

This is not meant as a post to hate on relic. I realize balancing a game like this must be insanely hard with all the variables. I just can't be arsed to get this frustrated anymore on getting undeserved losses.

For reference I was rank 55 ork at my top, so I was at least decent. 60% winratio.

GuruSkippy

it's fun, it's the total opposite for me. My ratio and rank are going up since patch.

Northanui

Mine has done nothing but drop. From 65% to 55% now, I'm done though. 90% of the ppl play Sm but somehow nobody can admit how hilariously ++heresy redacted++ broken they are.

It's the same ++heresy redacted++ story that happened to starcraft 2.... When it released, terran vs protoss was so hilariously imbalanced. it took the community and the devs an entire year to admit that it was broken and to fix it. It's like people (talking about the playerbase here) can't admit obvious imbalances because the majority of what's left of the playerbase is left just plays SM and just a-moves all day.

The insultingly better units SM has over ork (and eldar too). just look at assault marines.

Even after the nerf.... cost for cost they completely ++heresy redacted++ on any other melee unit.... With base requisition so high (a change many ppl thought was a bad change), you can literally just spam ASM and rush the power core and turrets ALL the ++heresy redacted++ same.... and with SM mobile army just drop your dreadnoughts and flags and other fruitcake drop pods right at the power core.... turret doesn't do anything anymore cause it's damage got gutted (another insanely stupid change).

Or if you encounter the more common spam tacs into predators Sm, then you automatically lose if he gets to lategame. Literally seen a dozen games where a 50 food SM army rolls over a triple-as-much Ork army of 150 simply because predators and flag and just the general control SM gets is so hilariously broken.

PaperBaG

I feel your pain but from an eldar perspective, the game just ends now more times because of luck or abilities you can't avoid. I stopped playing a couple days ago and at launch and threw first month I was having a lot of fun but after this patch and the random resource change (on top of the random not needed buffs or nerfs) its just gotten silly I was rank 37 when the leader board came out and I didn't even use the webway teleport because I knew it was going to be nerfed so I tried other builds and still had success with them. But now within 2-3 weeks Ive lost to nearly everyone i've played. The biggest thing is when you don't feel you can learn anything from your losses it just gets frustrating. I'd go in depth about what's wrong and what i'd think would make for better gameplay but there's a lot and the people who are still having fun with this game wouldn't agree.

YbuBaKa

@Northanui said:
Mine has done nothing but drop. From 65% to 55% now, I'm done though. 90% of the ppl play Sm but somehow nobody can admit how hilariously ++heresy redacted++ broken they are.
Or if you encounter the more common spam tacs into predators Sm, then you automatically lose if he gets to lategame. Literally seen a dozen games where a 50 food SM army rolls over a triple-as-much Ork army of 150 simply because predators and flag and just the general control SM gets is so hilariously broken.

There were many "random" buffs of already good units/mechanics in the latest patch. Ridiculous predator destructor buff is the most annoying thing. I am very glad to see most of top SM players avoiding to abuse these units! But I also remember nicknames of abusers and simply refuse to play with them. This is not interesting at all. Predator destructor spam could pwn any combination of ork units. I even tried to spend all energy for killa kans and all requisition for tankbustas, I used doctrines for both, and this won't be enough to have a chance against a brainless predator spam. I conquered most of map before 11th minute, and allowed SM player to have not more than two energy generators. But at the 11th-12th minute predators arrived, and to 16th minute SM player have built 3 of them, regained map control and pressured my key structures, while easily pwning all my units. This is why I disconnect from games immediately, when I encounter abusive player.

Scrangos

@YbuBaKa said:

@Northanui said:
Mine has done nothing but drop. From 65% to 55% now, I'm done though. 90% of the ppl play Sm but somehow nobody can admit how hilariously ++heresy redacted++ broken they are.
Or if you encounter the more common spam tacs into predators Sm, then you automatically lose if he gets to lategame. Literally seen a dozen games where a 50 food SM army rolls over a triple-as-much Ork army of 150 simply because predators and flag and just the general control SM gets is so hilariously broken.

There were many "random" buffs of already good units/mechanics in the latest patch. Ridiculous predator destructor buff is the most annoying thing. I am very glad to see most of top SM players avoiding to abuse these units! But I also remember nicknames of abusers and simply refuse to play with them. This is not interesting at all. Predator destructor spam could pwn any combination of ork units. I even tried to spend all energy for killa kans and all requisition for tankbustas, I used doctrines for both, and this won't be enough to have a chance against a brainless predator spam. I conquered most of map before 11th minute, and allowed SM player to have not more than two energy generators. But at the 11th-12th minute predators arrived, and to 16th minute SM player have built 3 of them, regained map control and pressured my key structures, while easily pwning all my units. This is why I disconnect from games immediately, when I encounter abusive player.

Preds get silly bonkers overpowered fast once they can field multiple, coupled with the fact they can stay at like half your upkeep since they only need preds. I can deal with one or two but the losses pile up fast....

This is further aggravated by the fact you feel you need to close asap as to not deal with it, but SM has an array of screw you this battle is mine cooldowns. Particularly their super that when used properly you cannot deal with it. And the times you could, the losses would be MASSIVE and are forced to retreat (and the ++heresy redacted++ thing still catches a couple units). Then by the end once he pushes you off the points using his pred spam, he waits and saves em all up and uses em in your base, banner, 3 dreadnaughts dropped and the super ability... and its not somewhere you can retreat anymore. Wish orks had something they could stack to close games like that.

Northanui

@Scrangos said:

@YbuBaKa said:

@Northanui said:
Mine has done nothing but drop. From 65% to 55% now, I'm done though. 90% of the ppl play Sm but somehow nobody can admit how hilariously ++heresy redacted++ broken they are.
Or if you encounter the more common spam tacs into predators Sm, then you automatically lose if he gets to lategame. Literally seen a dozen games where a 50 food SM army rolls over a triple-as-much Ork army of 150 simply because predators and flag and just the general control SM gets is so hilariously broken.

There were many "random" buffs of already good units/mechanics in the latest patch. Ridiculous predator destructor buff is the most annoying thing. I am very glad to see most of top SM players avoiding to abuse these units! But I also remember nicknames of abusers and simply refuse to play with them. This is not interesting at all. Predator destructor spam could pwn any combination of ork units. I even tried to spend all energy for killa kans and all requisition for tankbustas, I used doctrines for both, and this won't be enough to have a chance against a brainless predator spam. I conquered most of map before 11th minute, and allowed SM player to have not more than two energy generators. But at the 11th-12th minute predators arrived, and to 16th minute SM player have built 3 of them, regained map control and pressured my key structures, while easily pwning all my units. This is why I disconnect from games immediately, when I encounter abusive player.

Preds get silly bonkers overpowered fast once they can field multiple, coupled with the fact they can stay at like half your upkeep since they only need preds. I can deal with one or two but the losses pile up fast....

This is further aggravated by the fact you feel you need to close asap as to not deal with it, but SM has an array of screw you this battle is mine cooldowns. Particularly their super that when used properly you cannot deal with it. And the times you could, the losses would be MASSIVE and are forced to retreat (and the ++heresy redacted++ thing still catches a couple units). Then by the end once he pushes you off the points using his pred spam, he waits and saves em all up and uses em in your base, banner, 3 dreadnaughts dropped and the super ability... and its not somewhere you can retreat anymore. Wish orks had something they could stack to close games like that.

Yeah. this exactly. As I've said in my other posts, but for some reason forgot to include in this OP - predators are the most broken thing about Sm.

They create a "timed" win condition, that right now ONLY exists when playing versus space marines. And this is true for both eldar and ork. if you are versing a space marine, you better win before he gets 2-3+ predators out or you just literally WILL not be able to win. There are some exceptions of course, like if you have a 9point beauty out and he only has 2-3 preds, you have a chance if you hit them with the fist. Same with the 9point eldar elite.

Stoner

@Scrangos
Can I ask what's your rank on leaderboards and are you main Ork?

Scrangos

@Northanui said:

@Scrangos said:

@YbuBaKa said:

@Northanui said:
Mine has done nothing but drop. From 65% to 55% now, I'm done though. 90% of the ppl play Sm but somehow nobody can admit how hilariously ++heresy redacted++ broken they are.
Or if you encounter the more common spam tacs into predators Sm, then you automatically lose if he gets to lategame. Literally seen a dozen games where a 50 food SM army rolls over a triple-as-much Ork army of 150 simply because predators and flag and just the general control SM gets is so hilariously broken.

There were many "random" buffs of already good units/mechanics in the latest patch. Ridiculous predator destructor buff is the most annoying thing. I am very glad to see most of top SM players avoiding to abuse these units! But I also remember nicknames of abusers and simply refuse to play with them. This is not interesting at all. Predator destructor spam could pwn any combination of ork units. I even tried to spend all energy for killa kans and all requisition for tankbustas, I used doctrines for both, and this won't be enough to have a chance against a brainless predator spam. I conquered most of map before 11th minute, and allowed SM player to have not more than two energy generators. But at the 11th-12th minute predators arrived, and to 16th minute SM player have built 3 of them, regained map control and pressured my key structures, while easily pwning all my units. This is why I disconnect from games immediately, when I encounter abusive player.

Preds get silly bonkers overpowered fast once they can field multiple, coupled with the fact they can stay at like half your upkeep since they only need preds. I can deal with one or two but the losses pile up fast....

This is further aggravated by the fact you feel you need to close asap as to not deal with it, but SM has an array of screw you this battle is mine cooldowns. Particularly their super that when used properly you cannot deal with it. And the times you could, the losses would be MASSIVE and are forced to retreat (and the ++heresy redacted++ thing still catches a couple units). Then by the end once he pushes you off the points using his pred spam, he waits and saves em all up and uses em in your base, banner, 3 dreadnaughts dropped and the super ability... and its not somewhere you can retreat anymore. Wish orks had something they could stack to close games like that.

Yeah. this exactly. As I've said in my other posts, but for some reason forgot to include in this OP - predators are the most broken thing about Sm.

They create a "timed" win condition, that right now ONLY exists when playing versus space marines. And this is true for both eldar and ork. if you are versing a space marine, you better win before he gets 2-3+ predators out or you just literally WILL not be able to win. There are some exceptions of course, like if you have a 9point beauty out and he only has 2-3 preds, you have a chance if you hit them with the fist. Same with the 9point eldar elite.

Yeah.. and the second you try, "The space marines are using a super ability!" and you better hope it still has the waaagh buff or you arent gonna be able to get it out fast enough. The shield offensive bubble is also nice if they decide they dont feel like moving the preds out of it.

@Stoner said:
@Scrangos
Can I ask what's your rank on leaderboards and are you main Ork?

uhh 120ish 1v1 and like 50ish 2v2.. i used to split between eldar and orks but i got tired of only having wraithguard as an option and whirlwind solaria ++heresy redacted++

Scrangos

96 now! Last match was against a SM that ended at 130ish after a 54 minute game that was cussing me from like minute 30 about my race being overpowered. o.o;

right before he started spamming devastators and assault marines with lascannons.

sad part is i know exactly how he couldve beat me and I dont know how to counter it.

Northanui

I've reinstalled to check out the update, but have been only playing space marines since I literally ++heresy redacted++ refuse to play orks anymore. Just won't bother playing anything other than easymode FOTM SM until relic decides to give Eldar and Ork an equal lategame that SM has right now.

It's fun to ++heresy redacted++ on helpless Ork I have to say. I have turned to the dark side.

Scrangos

@Northanui said:
I've reinstalled to check out the update, but have been only playing space marines since I literally ++heresy redacted++ refuse to play orks anymore. Just won't bother playing anything other than easymode FOTM SM until relic decides to give Eldar and Ork an equal lategame that SM has right now.

It's fun to ++heresy redacted++ on helpless Ork I have to say. I have turned to the dark side.

If i played sm i would rush predators and send them one by one into the enemy just to see them die.

Northanui

@Scrangos said:

@Northanui said:
I've reinstalled to check out the update, but have been only playing space marines since I literally ++heresy redacted++ refuse to play orks anymore. Just won't bother playing anything other than easymode FOTM SM until relic decides to give Eldar and Ork an equal lategame that SM has right now.

It's fun to ++heresy redacted++ on helpless Ork I have to say. I have turned to the dark side.

If i played sm i would rush predators and send them one by one into the enemy just to see them die.

It's not just endgame where SM strength is incredible. Midgame with angelos and lascannons, drop pods and flag is also maddeningly strong.

oh and I love how the only melee walker in the entire game that actually does its ++heresy redacted++ FUNCTION and survives against anti armor long enough to be useful is the dreadnought. in Sm vs Sm mirrors, dreadnoughts are viable ways to actually counter predators. But it's just SO IRONIC that the only race that can counter how OP predators are are - BIG SURPRISE - SPEHS MOHRONS.

Both deff dreads and wraithblades are such pieces of utter ++heresy redacted++ compared to dreadnoughts, deff dreads simply because of the abysmally low hp, and wraithlbades because of the fact that they are a squad of three (meaning predator shots completely melt them thanks to unnecessary-as-hell AOE buff to preds)

YbuBaKa

@Scrangos said:

right before he started spamming devastators and assault marines with lascannons.

Oh, really? I've never seen an assault marine with a lascannon, that's should be impressive!

By the way, balance is not too weak as you complain. All we need is predator destructor rollback and dreadnought nerf. For example, in the early stage of the game, Ork could be equal to Space Marine and could pwn handicapped Eldar. You just need all of your early available elites and all doctrines, available at tier 1: such as "Tons of Bombs", "Healing Scrap", "Thump from da Sky", etc. I'm not about to complain about weak Ork late game, because I have 12th place in 1v1 ladder, earned by quick and decisive games. Yes, opposing to t3 SM is hard like hell, but it is still real to win. You could do your best to hold the most of resource points in your hands, if you performed right at the first 10 minutes and gained full map control. This helps a lot. If you could make 2 deffdreads against each dreadnought, you won't feel they are really imba. But one annoying thing still remains: predator destructor spam. If you have not beaten SM completely before first tank arrive, your situation will became worse with every minute. My advice is: boycott predator destructor abusers, just don't waste your time on them. They do not deserve it.

Scrangos

@YbuBaKa said:

@Scrangos said:

right before he started spamming devastators and assault marines with lascannons.

Oh, really? I've never seen an assault marine with a lascannon, that's should be impressive!

By the way, balance is not too weak as you complain. All we need is predator destructor rollback and dreadnought nerf. For example, in the early stage of the game, Ork could be equal to Space Marine and could pwn handicapped Eldar. You just need all of your early available elites and all doctrines, available at tier 1: such as "Tons of Bombs", "Healing Scrap", "Thump from da Sky", etc. I'm not about to complain about weak Ork late game, because I have 12th place in 1v1 ladder, earned by quick and decisive games. Yes, opposing to t3 SM is hard like hell, but it is still real to win. You could do your best to hold the most of resource points in your hands, if you performed right at the first 10 minutes and gained full map control. This helps a lot. If you could make 2 deffdreads against each dreadnought, you won't feel they are really imba. But one annoying thing still remains: predator destructor spam. If you have not beaten SM completely before first tank arrive, your situation will became worse with every minute. My advice is: boycott predator destructor abusers, just don't waste your time on them. They do not deserve it.

You know i meant spending requisition in both asm and lascannon setup teams.

Thump from da sky? Are you trolling me? Dreadnaughts arent really a problem, and orks tend to float a lot more upkeep than SM so getting two defs per dread from the mech shop seems impossible, not to mentiont hat means no infantry upgrades which is pretty dangerous.

And how am i supposed to know they are predator abusers before the lategame.... its not like they roll them out at the 5th minute mark.