Soul Shrine -> Shield Regeneration could need a look at together with Killa Kan cost-efficiency with the true damage on both auto-attack and doctrine rocket.
Overall, very nice changes that should be very welcomed by the overall community delivered at a good pace to the live servers.
Lul there is a whine thread already... Oh and flamer can really used some fixes, shadow specters r ridiculously OP now and Deathwatch...we cant forget bout deathwatch cant we? @Cataclawy
I have a sneaking suspicion that diomedes is bugged the other way around now. I noticed i was hitting heavy armor buildings for 80 damage on normal hit when he was >=zeal 1 which is exacly how much damage he would deal to a building with a normal hit when he is on zeal 1 with his Q buff active. At the time his buff was not active.
@DmonBlu said:
Lul there is a whine thread already... Oh and flamer can really used some fixes, shadow specters r ridiculously OP now and Deathwatch...we cant forget bout deathwatch cant we? @Cataclawy
I got 19 disagrees and one agree for complaining about shadow specters in the Community update regarding this patch.
This game have become even more one sided and void of any choices than before. Going ASM isn't worth it atm completely, they can't do anything at all. Relic, when you hammernerf unit twice, you compensate it with something, see? I don't build barracks now, I just go for Doctrine Chapel and brute force my way forward with tac spam + devastators, and it works wonders. See, 2 tacs shouldn't be able to beat 2 banshees in MELEE FFS with grenade. ASM definitely can't beat Shees with doctrine. Later on I beat 2 Shees + Scorpions with Deathwatch + 2 tacs and 1 tac flamer. This is ridiculous. Tacs are far more superior in melee than ASM, does it make any sense to you?
Diomedes is so poop now (as some poor sods giving him a test run). When I see him, I just laugh. Kite him before Gabe comes than stunlock and brutally murder this slow, pathetic creature with 2 spread devs, which he can't even run away from...
Build with mass tacs and devs gives insane fighting potential + absolutely power free. So good that I can even sneak in armory and get hp upgrade before t2, and I still will be ahead in tech before the enemy.
Pre-patch it was viable to go for varied build, I had ASM (yes, it was pain but still viable), scouts, 1-2 tacs and dev on T1, transition to T2 was slower, but you could hold your own. Now it all goes into oblivion, because stun nades not worth entire building and delay of devs. I have 2 buildings to produce tacs, so I can amass them far sooner. Current ASM can't even disrupt setup teams properly, so I can either brute force them with tac nades or use droppod/Elite/my own HWT to get close and personal. It's ridiculous that unit built for specific tasks can't rival unit in efficiency, who supposed to be murdered by HWTs... Talking about specialist unit approach lol.
LP price increase really had too big of an effect. Improved LP doctrine is bad choice now. It doesn't bug me too much, I think I even like it more this way, but that being said I favor aggressive playstyle and this price increase certainly locked off players preferring different approach to the game.
I didn't notice anything particularly good for Eldar. They certainly didn't overbuff them, and that's fine. On Kyre, he's not that effective but pulling still can be cheesed quite hard without barrage.
This time Relic completely neglected units that needed serious balance revamps like for most Elites (Da Kommando, Jonah, Ronahn, Wierd Boy, Gabe etc), Squigs, Killa Kans, Vypers and etc, while nerfed units harder which weren't even mentioned. Like did anyone ever complained about ASM last patch? People said: "Chaplain underperforms". Relic said: "Oh really? Let's nerf him into the ground!". Bravo.
What I hate most about this game is that it forces meta on you real hard. You have to completely ignore certain set of line units, doctrines and Elites to perform better. In other RTS games such thing exists too, but DOW III gives this illusion of almost endless possibilities of choices, unit combos and etc, and sadly it's only an illusion, so you have to be locked in playstyle you do not enjoy one bit and stuck with units you just hate...
@aghabozorg said:
good patch imo.eldars really needed the buff.the only thing i dont like at all is the movement speed buff for BONESINGERS (faster early caps)
They now have the same speed of other builders, they used to have less because of Warp, but that starts on cooldown now.
I like the patch notes and can't wait to try it out.
I also like the delicate touch of this patch.
But because of that, some issues remain - like the Deathwatch Team cheese and Vypers zero usability.
Keep up the good work!
Maybe it's me but after the patch I still fell SM to be overpowered.
Deathwatch+flamer+ early banner ("I win" button") still make SMm superior to any other race in the first 7minutes
@Don_Zauser said:
Maybe it's me but after the patch I still fell SM to be overpowered.
Deathwatch+flamer+ early banner ("I win" button") still make SMm superior to any other race in the first 7minutes
I gotta say that Kommando nerf is a huge overreaction to forum hate. His extreme setup requirements and very weak payout will not be worth it over weirdboy who costs exactly the same.
@Jelly said:
I gotta say that Kommando nerf is a huge overreaction to forum hate. His extreme setup requirements and very weak payout will not be worth it over weirdboy who costs exactly the same.
He was one shotting nobz.
The only infantry he couldn't OHK were wraithblades.
@Jelly said:
I gotta say that Kommando nerf is a huge overreaction to forum hate. His extreme setup requirements and very weak payout will not be worth it over weirdboy who costs exactly the same.
How so? There is no changes to damage or explosion radius (which is freaking huge) and damage switched from AP to True, which means if pre-patch at least some squad members survived with normal armor, now he wipes out everyone no matter the armor type, or do I miss something?
@RedDevilCG said:
It now does one instance of damage per squad instead of an instance of damage for every unit in the squad.
In other words it has about the clearance against normal targets as scrap blast does except on an extremely slow unit with a very well advertised wind-up that can be scouted for 50 requisition and interrupted with any taunt/knockback. Anyone who got hit by this pre-patch had it coming.
This will not be useful against elites even with the damage conversion. With his nerfed HP pool Diomedes will still tank 5 booby traps plus change, even more if he's attacking and proccing his critical effect. Besides that being practically impossible to pull off you'd probably just want to use all that scrap on units.
@Jelly said:
I gotta say that Kommando nerf is a huge overreaction to forum hate. His extreme setup requirements and very weak payout will not be worth it over weirdboy who costs exactly the same.
I somewhat agree with this, but I also think the nerf isn't that bad. I still need to play and see, but if damage is now on per squad rather than per entitiy...I would imagine that means some damage was previously lost. Say a 300hp entity was killed by the bomb with the rest of the squad just outside the threshold of the blast. That would mean 300 AP damage was just lost and void. Now I imagine that damage (which is now TRUE damage instead of AP) will cascade over to other entities in the squad. If this indeed works this way, then nerf isn't that bad.
However, I feel a bigger problem is Orks lack of voice on these forums and indeed in the original patch feedback thread. I am biased as and Ork main (not high level either), sure. But I saw squigs and Kommando bomb mentioned alot...does everyone understand how these work? Correct me if I'm wrong, but these skills are completely, 100%, capable of being negated. Not just slightly "mitigated", not "escaped", completely NEGATED. Kommando bomb needs scrap or his mine to create bomb. Scrap and mines are destructable. Bring a detector, see the Kommando, see the mine, destroy it, no bomb.
Squigs too... I saw many people calling to make them auto-targeted. Wouldn't this make them useless against an army, or really any lone unit? Don't think squigs have that much health and when used they go to the targeted area, harmlessly wait a couple seconds, then target the nearest unit or structure and charge them and explode.
Just my two cents. Don't get me started on comparing destructors and big trakk, or land speeder's effectiveness against Orks. I'll give you the taunt and stikk bombz nerf. Even though taunt had a cast time, and apparently stikk bombz have the smallest blast area of all the grenades (Confirmation on this? Seen it mentioned confidently in other threads). Open to corrections if anything here is incorrect.
@Jelly said:
I gotta say that Kommando nerf is a huge overreaction to forum hate. His extreme setup requirements and very weak payout will not be worth it over weirdboy who costs exactly the same.
nope. he was straight up one of the most op heroes in the game. The amount of games I lost in ork vs ork, where I demolished his army with better play, I have a full hp nob squad, 3point zapnoggin, 2-3 shootas and 1 boy out. Then, he sneaks his commando in, and DESPITE me having gretchin near my army, they were not "close enough" (the standard detection range is very small), and literally wipes my entire army with 1 bomb because it covers like an entire metric-map of area (much bigger than the skill animation).
Enire army dead, he goes on to win an undeserved game because this piece of ++heresy redacted++ stupid hero. now that can't be done anymore. ++heresy redacted++ kommando.
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Comments
Cataclawy
Soul Shrine -> Shield Regeneration could need a look at together with Killa Kan cost-efficiency with the true damage on both auto-attack and doctrine rocket.
Overall, very nice changes that should be very welcomed by the overall community delivered at a good pace to the live servers.
frumpylumps
Let the shadow specter harass game begin!
No change to flamers instantly appearing on one of your opponents guys and torching your squads with no way to react?
Horse blinders patch.
DmonBlu
Lul there is a whine thread already... Oh and flamer can really used some fixes, shadow specters r ridiculously OP now and Deathwatch...we cant forget bout deathwatch cant we? @Cataclawy
Guziol
I have a sneaking suspicion that diomedes is bugged the other way around now. I noticed i was hitting heavy armor buildings for 80 damage on normal hit when he was >=zeal 1 which is exacly how much damage he would deal to a building with a normal hit when he is on zeal 1 with his Q buff active. At the time his buff was not active.
RedDevilCG
Looks like the same patch notes with the addition of the Commando readjustment, or was that in the original notes too? Not bad overall.
Northanui
despite the hilarious mistype (100 to 3) and wierd nerfs to diomedes, im having tons of fun with the patch.
edit: NVM Its been fixed to 30
frumpylumps
I got 19 disagrees and one agree for complaining about shadow specters in the Community update regarding this patch.
Let this be a lesson to you, Relic.
aghabozorg
good patch imo.eldars really needed the buff.the only thing i dont like at all is the movement speed buff for BONESINGERS (faster early caps)
Stoner
This game have become even more one sided and void of any choices than before. Going ASM isn't worth it atm completely, they can't do anything at all. Relic, when you hammernerf unit twice, you compensate it with something, see? I don't build barracks now, I just go for Doctrine Chapel and brute force my way forward with tac spam + devastators, and it works wonders. See, 2 tacs shouldn't be able to beat 2 banshees in MELEE FFS with grenade. ASM definitely can't beat Shees with doctrine. Later on I beat 2 Shees + Scorpions with Deathwatch + 2 tacs and 1 tac flamer. This is ridiculous. Tacs are far more superior in melee than ASM, does it make any sense to you?
Diomedes is so poop now (as some poor sods giving him a test run). When I see him, I just laugh. Kite him before Gabe comes than stunlock and brutally murder this slow, pathetic creature with 2 spread devs, which he can't even run away from...
Build with mass tacs and devs gives insane fighting potential + absolutely power free. So good that I can even sneak in armory and get hp upgrade before t2, and I still will be ahead in tech before the enemy.
Pre-patch it was viable to go for varied build, I had ASM (yes, it was pain but still viable), scouts, 1-2 tacs and dev on T1, transition to T2 was slower, but you could hold your own. Now it all goes into oblivion, because stun nades not worth entire building and delay of devs. I have 2 buildings to produce tacs, so I can amass them far sooner. Current ASM can't even disrupt setup teams properly, so I can either brute force them with tac nades or use droppod/Elite/my own HWT to get close and personal. It's ridiculous that unit built for specific tasks can't rival unit in efficiency, who supposed to be murdered by HWTs... Talking about specialist unit approach lol.
LP price increase really had too big of an effect. Improved LP doctrine is bad choice now. It doesn't bug me too much, I think I even like it more this way, but that being said I favor aggressive playstyle and this price increase certainly locked off players preferring different approach to the game.
I didn't notice anything particularly good for Eldar. They certainly didn't overbuff them, and that's fine. On Kyre, he's not that effective but pulling still can be cheesed quite hard without barrage.
This time Relic completely neglected units that needed serious balance revamps like for most Elites (Da Kommando, Jonah, Ronahn, Wierd Boy, Gabe etc), Squigs, Killa Kans, Vypers and etc, while nerfed units harder which weren't even mentioned. Like did anyone ever complained about ASM last patch? People said: "Chaplain underperforms". Relic said: "Oh really? Let's nerf him into the ground!". Bravo.
What I hate most about this game is that it forces meta on you real hard. You have to completely ignore certain set of line units, doctrines and Elites to perform better. In other RTS games such thing exists too, but DOW III gives this illusion of almost endless possibilities of choices, unit combos and etc, and sadly it's only an illusion, so you have to be locked in playstyle you do not enjoy one bit and stuck with units you just hate...
Gorb
Cleaned up a bunch of posts. The next poster to even attempt a personal tangent will be moderated. You should all know better.
Moderator Post
WiseWindu
Text diff log of most of the relevant files for this patch for anyone interested: https://pastebin.com/XQg7nBe1
Draconix
Really sorry Gorb. But damage to my Disagree/Agree ratio is done unfortunately.
jonoliveira12
They now have the same speed of other builders, they used to have less because of Warp, but that starts on cooldown now.
aghabozorg
oh didnt know that.thx
DonDimon
I like the patch notes and can't wait to try it out.
I also like the delicate touch of this patch.
But because of that, some issues remain - like the Deathwatch Team cheese and Vypers zero usability.
Keep up the good work!
Don_Zauser
Maybe it's me but after the patch I still fell SM to be overpowered.
Deathwatch+flamer+ early banner ("I win" button") still make SMm superior to any other race in the first 7minutes
Stoner
You haven't fought with Ork yet, did you?...
Guziol
I love the new wraithblades!
Jelly
I gotta say that Kommando nerf is a huge overreaction to forum hate. His extreme setup requirements and very weak payout will not be worth it over weirdboy who costs exactly the same.
Katitof
He was one shotting nobz.
The only infantry he couldn't OHK were wraithblades.
Jelly
@Katitof One shotting nobz when they were stupid enough to run around in his scrap heaps. It's not easy to pull off.
Stoner
How so? There is no changes to damage or explosion radius (which is freaking huge) and damage switched from AP to True, which means if pre-patch at least some squad members survived with normal armor, now he wipes out everyone no matter the armor type, or do I miss something?
RedDevilCG
@stoner >Kommando
It now does one instance of damage per squad instead of an instance of damage for every unit in the squad.
Atlas
Solid patch. It didn't change much from when it was first introduced, but it was pretty good when it started and it came out in a timely manner. Nice!
The July tournament looks like it's going to be super interesting now.
Also mods, please confirm that Bigamo's account has not been hacked. I can't believe the about-face he's made on this :P
Jelly
@stoner
In other words it has about the clearance against normal targets as scrap blast does except on an extremely slow unit with a very well advertised wind-up that can be scouted for 50 requisition and interrupted with any taunt/knockback. Anyone who got hit by this pre-patch had it coming.
This will not be useful against elites even with the damage conversion. With his nerfed HP pool Diomedes will still tank 5 booby traps plus change, even more if he's attacking and proccing his critical effect. Besides that being practically impossible to pull off you'd probably just want to use all that scrap on units.
Kinglang
Eldar was many buff, and SM was many nerf. Orks was appropriate.
but now SM so weak.
Listening Post cost 300/0 -> 250/0.
ASM jump skill cooldown rollback.
Predator cost rollback.
Fire Prism Cost 100/325 -> 100/350.
please.
Shuttdown
I somewhat agree with this, but I also think the nerf isn't that bad. I still need to play and see, but if damage is now on per squad rather than per entitiy...I would imagine that means some damage was previously lost. Say a 300hp entity was killed by the bomb with the rest of the squad just outside the threshold of the blast. That would mean 300 AP damage was just lost and void. Now I imagine that damage (which is now TRUE damage instead of AP) will cascade over to other entities in the squad. If this indeed works this way, then nerf isn't that bad.
However, I feel a bigger problem is Orks lack of voice on these forums and indeed in the original patch feedback thread. I am biased as and Ork main (not high level either), sure. But I saw squigs and Kommando bomb mentioned alot...does everyone understand how these work? Correct me if I'm wrong, but these skills are completely, 100%, capable of being negated. Not just slightly "mitigated", not "escaped", completely NEGATED. Kommando bomb needs scrap or his mine to create bomb. Scrap and mines are destructable. Bring a detector, see the Kommando, see the mine, destroy it, no bomb.
Squigs too... I saw many people calling to make them auto-targeted. Wouldn't this make them useless against an army, or really any lone unit? Don't think squigs have that much health and when used they go to the targeted area, harmlessly wait a couple seconds, then target the nearest unit or structure and charge them and explode.
Just my two cents. Don't get me started on comparing destructors and big trakk, or land speeder's effectiveness against Orks. I'll give you the taunt and stikk bombz nerf. Even though taunt had a cast time, and apparently stikk bombz have the smallest blast area of all the grenades (Confirmation on this? Seen it mentioned confidently in other threads). Open to corrections if anything here is incorrect.
Yay, first post!
Orks need more advocates!
Northanui
nope. he was straight up one of the most op heroes in the game. The amount of games I lost in ork vs ork, where I demolished his army with better play, I have a full hp nob squad, 3point zapnoggin, 2-3 shootas and 1 boy out. Then, he sneaks his commando in, and DESPITE me having gretchin near my army, they were not "close enough" (the standard detection range is very small), and literally wipes my entire army with 1 bomb because it covers like an entire metric-map of area (much bigger than the skill animation).
Enire army dead, he goes on to win an undeserved game because this piece of ++heresy redacted++ stupid hero. now that can't be done anymore. ++heresy redacted++ kommando.