@Cursed said:
Give them normal armour and true damage.
Unless we get another armour and damage type for mid game units so they'll be more powerful without going balls-to-the wall true damage?
I think, with changes you've proposed, nobs will be F*UCKING AWESOME! They will be the best Ork troop for the mid-game and late-game! Seriously, if my Nobs would deal TRUE damage and benefit from INFANTRY hp upgrades, they will need another requirements to be balanced. For example, 5 banners instead of 3. And it will be better to increase their cost to 400/200 (at least!)
@bikerushownz said:
orks are insanely op why are nobz not in tanks area. ? they are a bloody tank omg... so much you nerf edlar like crazy but only small nerfs to orks like comon stormboys -_-
I think nobs are overvalued by Ork players at this time. Soon we will see more and more Ork players, who will decide to abandon this tactic in favor of more effecient ones. I hope you will learn how to counter nobs to this time, but it will be too late.
Btw, if the developers will hear the complains about Nobs and will nerf them more, I don't care. Because I don't rely on nobs. I build them only for two purposes: to kill heroes, which can't be killed in other ways, and to destroy enemy eco at the 3rd and 4th escalation phases, when Listening Posts become insanely tough.
I think i have more issues with Shield Regeneration as Eldar or Banshees for example that could use a HP buff. Can we first look at what is wrong with the "other" factions aswell before contemplating nerfing? I always prefer buffs rather than nerfs in the grand scheme, but i do find the Waaagh scaling mechanic to be interesting, it seems a bit strong in the very early game but i am completely fine with it later on once Eldar can field some CC on the field, (Banshee scream for example, which is super good CC but we can barely see because Banshees die extremely easy on approach) Nerfing nobz for example, is not going to make any change to how we would be using Banshees, which we do not currently see at all, sort of like how we never see Deffkoptas or Vypers. Can we also make so that Banshees trigger their scream BEFORE they get stunned by Boyz? Right now Boyz always get their stun off on Banshees in a 1v1 fight before the Banshees use their scream, which is quite frustrating especially when they are way more expensive and you usually have to use a doctrine to make the scream worthwhile.
@Cursed said:
Give them normal armour and true damage.
Unless we get another armour and damage type for mid game units so they'll be more powerful without going balls-to-the wall true damage?
I think, with changes you've proposed, nobs will be F*UCKING AWESOME! They will be the best Ork troop for the mid-game and late-game! Seriously, if my Nobs would deal TRUE damage and benefit from INFANTRY hp upgrades, they will need another requirements to be balanced. For example, 5 banners instead of 3. And it will be better to increase their cost to 400/200 (at least!)
Read the end of the post I made. There's reasoning behind what I said, I don't expect that change to make them balanced, but I think a change in focus from tanky to something that's focused on damage could be a good one.
@Cursed said:
Give them normal armour and true damage.
Simples.
Reasoning: mid game they're a massive impact unit, not because they do a ton of damage, but they're just extremely hard to kill, allowing the rest of the army to mop up. Give them normal armour and you should be able to shoot them down on approach more easily.
>
If you ignore completely scaling you mean?
Not "simples" because then they would end up with over 6500 hp post upgrades and with their doctrines would walk over literally everything.
Late game they die alot faster to all the AV and tanks that find their way onto the field, and because they die quickly, they don't really achieve much with their normal type damage. If you give them true damage they'll be able to make a better impact late game without having much more of an advantage early game.
They are crowd control/tank unit, their choppa throw is amazing vs all targets, their taunt can mess you up bad and there are plenty of units and heroes allowing them to appear in the middle of your army.
The only issue with nobz is they arrive too fast, not 10 min too fast, one-two minutes too fast, before you can get counter to them, unless you fast tech yourself.
@MaxwellsDaemon said:
after and irrespective of all the drama I can only say.....
Who the hell uses falcons to counter nobs?
The rock, paper, scissors armour system is pretty straight forward. Armour piercing for heavy armour....normal damage for normal armour. True damage for both.
That alone should be enough to say you're trying to cut a rock with scissors - regardless of experience, micro skill or whatever....
Add on top of that your talking about 500power spent (on the 2 falcons alone) to counter a 200 power unit.....come on....why even give this claim much more than a
'Sorry that doesn't make sense'
and move on...
@n0ave_ said: @Gorb I agree, I got carried away because @frumpylumps pissed me off on the twitch stream chat, and I see he adopted the same attitude here.
I do not understand why a casual player like him uses "Scrubs, Git good, and Learn to play" phrases on this forum.
He was the one that started the disrespecting attitude, to be honest I would not even post in this thread if he did not post the following sentence:
@frumpylumps said:
You can counter nobz with falcons. Learn to play, scrub.
After that he started to edit his posts to make them look better.
Since people are still hung up on this, I am going to have to clarify.
When I said I use 2 falcons to counter nobz, I obviously wasn't talking about the moment when nobz are able to come out. However, falcons do not come much later than nobz and can certainly be used to help counter them. Nobz are much slower than falcon and you can often use the Falcon to drop DR ahead of their retreat path, and Nobz cant touch falcon, so either way, I don't think its really not so outrageous to say that. It is normal damage but has an AOE of 6, which means it is hitting every model, and the upgrades are easy to afford and will increase the damage significantly.
In my view of Ork vs Eldar, the Ork is on the back foot in the early game because of what should be a relentless harass. Ork can't really leave their base without waah because DA do circles around them and out-trade shootahs. When Nobz come out, this is a window where Ork actually has a good chance to do some damage, but this is still no guarantee against Eldar who spread their DA well and use grenades. At the time Nobz come out, have majority map control and ork is playing catchup at this point. Eldar can afford to lose a resource node at this point and possibly a shield gen, and if they feel they can't possibly defend their shield gen with waah+ nobz, they can potentially go for theirs to stay ahead economically. You know when Waah is comming , and so you have time to prepare. The DR teleport doctrine would actually be somewhat useful in this situation, but probably could use a buff in duration. I also feel like the shield regen upgrade should be looked at and possibly made more affordable.
We often seem to expect the players at the top of the ladder to be the very best representation of what a faction can be, but how you noticed how often they will float resources and not get upgrades?
3 DA grenades will knock out 1 nob, yet Bikerush throws his DA away completely to save on upkeep. A smarter player would at least keep a couple of each squad around for the grenades, or am I missing something here?
However, I would agree with bikerush in part that the game focuses too much around the power of elites, and it pretty lame and actually gives weight to those "TOO MOBA!" sentiments. Too many games I see large armies beated back by 1-2 elites and a powerful unit like Falcon.
Bikerush trash talks me as well, guy. My learn to play comment was, at first, only half-serious banter. And I quickly edited because i though to
something better to say, not because of anything you said.
Again you didn't miss the opportunity to insult me, calling me a casual, despite being chronically wrong, with all evidence to the contrary.
@frumpylumps this is pure gold.
There is a math about DA nades vs nobz and you are still is in denial.
There is a math about Falcons vs nobz(assuming perfect conditions and zero damage dropoff) and you are still is in denial.
Pure.
Gold.
That is some "earth is flat, there are 53 genders and lizard men govern over USA" level of crap there.
Dude, please STOP posting anything that is related to balance, you are completely CLUELESS on every single word you say and completely wrong about every situation you describe.
You claim pair of falcons kills nobz in 17 seconds, while it takes 20 to kill LAST MODEL ALONE.
You claim 3 DA nades will kill nob model, while perfect hits will do 312 damage ONLY IF YOU HAVE DOCTRINE, while nob model have 600hp.
Just.
Stop.
I refuse to believe there is someone THAT stupid around, so you must be trolling on purpose.
waaagh towers could use a hp reduction, power cost increase, or req increase (since they effectively replace orks need to get LPs while also teching them up).
nobz need to be behind 4th waagh or they need some sort of serious ++heresy redacted++ nerfs.
Right now the nobz rush by a skilled player is 100.00% unbeatable.
last patch it was idiot predators, now its idiot nobz.
@Northanui said:
waaagh towers could use a hp reduction, power cost increase, or req increase (since they effectively replace orks need to get LPs while also teching them up).
nobz need to be behind 4th waagh or they need some sort of serious ++heresy redacted++ nerfs.
Right now the nobz rush by a skilled player is 100.00% unbeatable.
last patch it was idiot predators, now its idiot nobz.
It's OP for sure but unbeatable is too much. Let's dont overnerf things. @frumpylumps u should work as an entertainer: we should def make a fan club thread with ur best comments .
I mentioned that maybe orks could go back in tech by losing the towers, which would make building them much more strategic since it would be a high target value for the opponent.
Again you didn't miss the opportunity to insult me, calling me a casual, despite being chronically wrong, with all evidence to the contrary.
You are and you will be a casual player.
It`s funny how you give us exact numbers about dow3 gameplay, like 2 Falcons with can kill nobz in 17 seconds. Or 3 DA grenade can kill a nob model.
Lul just get Shadow specter and micro them a bit then Nobz can be dealt with ezzz. As SM its a lot harder however if u spam scouts properly then the game wouldnt last THAT long fro Nobz to roll in. That leads to another question how can we stop scout spam??? A super expandable DT-like unit but with a super OP CC ??? Seriously Im tired of watching my whole army get chainstunned to death . Nobz can wait we need to nerf scout 1st IMO. Increase their cost to 400 and give them a grendade throwing animation to both keep it more lore friendly and easier to dodge. 1 second delay should be enuf to keep scouts balanced and other players happy IMO
Sorry man it's a bugbear of mine when people give oversimplified solutions such as this.
Yeah shadow spectres are a respectable counter but that's only a small part of the problem.
You are already facing a formidable t1 Ork force that's potentially buffed up with Waagh so when the nobz appear it forces you to pull away from anti infantry units. This gives the combination of nobz and t1 infantry the room to brute force waagh all over your army.
....and that's without even mentioning how long it actually takes for spectres to deal with nobz.
TLDR- in isolation spectres are a great counter but usually nobz are backed up by a tonne of stuff that will gladly tear spectres a new one.
Dts erase units in sc2 and if u got no detection or ur dection got sniped u probably just loose the game ( they are quite gimmick if rushed so).
Even so scouts are quite OP, good orcs seem to be able to deal with them a waaaghed scrapped up weirdboy erazes all scouts in the huge Q area e.g. . A Nobs nerf is required for sure. I'd like to see in adition ability scaling with waggggh removed. Waaghh buff is rly good and I hope they wont overnerf the race mechanic like they did with eldar. The boyz mechanics are quite fun!
I think I saw @vindicarex get Nobz out at the 6 minute mark yesterday against an Eldar player (he can correct me if I'm wrong).
I was really surprised at how quick he could get them out. He did sacrifice some map control using strictly boys and regular use of Waaagh along with the Weirdboy and Stormboys, but had no other power sinks. Once the Nobz came out, it was a huge momentum swing. Of course the Weirdboy and Stormboyz were also really keeping the pressure up. I didn't realize how much damage a suicide bommba would do against Webway gates. Almost one-shotting them.
I think it was @Katitof that said something like "Nobz are fine, it's when they come out that isn't." I think that might be an accurate statement.
@RedDevilCG said:
I think I saw @vindicarex get Nobz out at the 6 minute mark yesterday against an Eldar player (he can correct me if I'm wrong).
I was really surprised at how quick he could get them out. He did sacrifice some map control using strictly boys and regular use of Waaagh along with the Weirdboy and Stormboys, but had no other power sinks. Once the Nobz came out, it was a huge momentum swing. Of course the Weirdboy and Stormboyz were also really keeping the pressure up.
>
Excuse me, but you can't have both: Stormboyz and Weirdboy at 6th-minute mark. You will need 8 minutes, even if you will manage to destroy shield generator. Otherwise, it will take 10 minutes to summon both elites. And nobz without Weirdboy should not be a problem: they have no real tool to actually damage taunted enemy troops. So, you've probably missed something.
@YbuBaKa said:
they have no real tool to actually damage taunted enemy troops. So, you've probably missed something.
There is this thing called choppa throw that exists, which deals HUGE true damage with AoE and roots targets in place, so they can't run away after taunt.
Nobz used by someone who knows that skill exists will maul you.
Other then that, taunt-> shoota nade, taunt->stormboy suicide, taunt->let kommando 2 shot your whole infantry force.
Nob taunt got amazing synergy with pretty much everything that can cause damage in DoW3, even their very own ability.
@YbuBaKa said:
Excuse me, but you can't have both: Stormboyz and Weirdboy at 6th-minute mark.
Yeah, you're probably right that the Weirdboy wasn't up at the 6min mark, but he did join the mayhem soon after nobz hit the field. I could probably find the recording on Twitch later.
There is this thing called choppa throw that exists, which deals HUGE true damage with AoE and roots targets in place, so they can't run away after taunt.
Nobz used by someone who knows that skill exists will maul you.
This skill has proportional effect, which depends on distance. The more is the distance to the enemy, the better Choppa Toss will be. If I will use Choppa Toss after Taunt, as you said, the effect will be vanishingly small. It is very stupid: to throw a Choppa in a point-blank range.
Time: 1:15:24 - My game vs Cataclaw I managed to get Nobz out by minute 6. Because I skipped stormboyz, I was able to get weirdboy out then too.
It's super easy @YbuBaKa - even some1 who has barely played Orkz (that was probably my 20th game ever as Orkz - wasn't even using half of their really good doctrines because I don't have Elites leveled at all) and made plenty of early game mistakes (like me) could use this combo to go up against a top Eldar player like Cataclaw, who has played hundreds of Eldar games.
The power spike for your army at min 6/7 is insane...
Reduce waagh bonus default effectiveness to +1.5 speed and +25% damage
Add a second level waagh bonus upgrade that comes after the first one (the one that increases durability) that buffs Waagh by another +1.5 speed and 25% damage, fairly expensive upgrade at that
But your nob nerf is way too much. It's a tech push, or a cost change, not the 2.
And even a tech push is not a good idea imo. People have to realise that nobz late game are not great.
I don't know whether nobz are OP when they come out, or if people don't know how to harass and defend against ork effectively, but one thing that might help the harass to be more effective is if the maps are changed so that generators are more accessible by your opponent.
As it stands, you often have to take a big risk losing your squads to harass in instances where you have to push past their shield gen to get at some of their nodes where there is only 1 narrow pathway out and where your units can be easily trapped, or where you have to cross the path of a turret to get to them.
@YbuBaKa said:
they have no real tool to actually damage taunted enemy troops. So, you've probably missed something.
There is this thing called choppa throw that exists, which deals HUGE true damage with AoE and roots targets in place, so they can't run away after taunt.
Nobz used by someone who knows that skill exists will maul you.
Other then that, taunt-> shoota nade, taunt->stormboy suicide, taunt->let kommando 2 shot your whole infantry force.
Nob taunt got amazing synergy with pretty much everything that can cause damage in DoW3, even their very own ability.
Yep, I had an ally who rushed Nobz, taunted a huge mob of Tacts, and I just dropped 4 DA grenades for a quick clean up. Nobz are one of the best units to use in any game mode.
If it turns out that nobz come out too early the easiest way to deal with that imo would be to simply add an Eldar gateway style unlock for nobz to push them to whatever timing they should be at.
I don't think Eldar would have problem against early nobz because you can either get more DR or Spectre without needing to tech up but it's still tough especially with that waggh buffs. In tier 2, it would be good if vyper weren't like a flying paper. They could make some good use against orks because their Q could slow down the incoming waagh-ed orks and the doctrine improved its utility more.
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Comments
YbuBaKa
I think, with changes you've proposed, nobs will be F*UCKING AWESOME! They will be the best Ork troop for the mid-game and late-game! Seriously, if my Nobs would deal TRUE damage and benefit from INFANTRY hp upgrades, they will need another requirements to be balanced. For example, 5 banners instead of 3. And it will be better to increase their cost to 400/200 (at least!)
I think nobs are overvalued by Ork players at this time. Soon we will see more and more Ork players, who will decide to abandon this tactic in favor of more effecient ones. I hope you will learn how to counter nobs to this time, but it will be too late.
Btw, if the developers will hear the complains about Nobs and will nerf them more, I don't care. Because I don't rely on nobs. I build them only for two purposes: to kill heroes, which can't be killed in other ways, and to destroy enemy eco at the 3rd and 4th escalation phases, when Listening Posts become insanely tough.
Cataclawy
I think i have more issues with Shield Regeneration as Eldar or Banshees for example that could use a HP buff. Can we first look at what is wrong with the "other" factions aswell before contemplating nerfing? I always prefer buffs rather than nerfs in the grand scheme, but i do find the Waaagh scaling mechanic to be interesting, it seems a bit strong in the very early game but i am completely fine with it later on once Eldar can field some CC on the field, (Banshee scream for example, which is super good CC but we can barely see because Banshees die extremely easy on approach) Nerfing nobz for example, is not going to make any change to how we would be using Banshees, which we do not currently see at all, sort of like how we never see Deffkoptas or Vypers. Can we also make so that Banshees trigger their scream BEFORE they get stunned by Boyz? Right now Boyz always get their stun off on Banshees in a 1v1 fight before the Banshees use their scream, which is quite frustrating especially when they are way more expensive and you usually have to use a doctrine to make the scream worthwhile.
Cursed
Read the end of the post I made. There's reasoning behind what I said, I don't expect that change to make them balanced, but I think a change in focus from tanky to something that's focused on damage could be a good one.
Katitof
>
If you ignore completely scaling you mean?
Not "simples" because then they would end up with over 6500 hp post upgrades and with their doctrines would walk over literally everything.
They are crowd control/tank unit, their choppa throw is amazing vs all targets, their taunt can mess you up bad and there are plenty of units and heroes allowing them to appear in the middle of your army.
The only issue with nobz is they arrive too fast, not 10 min too fast, one-two minutes too fast, before you can get counter to them, unless you fast tech yourself.
YbuBaKa
Perhaps it will be not bad to lock nobs after 4th banner. But even in current meta they are counterable.
frumpylumps
Since people are still hung up on this, I am going to have to clarify.
When I said I use 2 falcons to counter nobz, I obviously wasn't talking about the moment when nobz are able to come out. However, falcons do not come much later than nobz and can certainly be used to help counter them. Nobz are much slower than falcon and you can often use the Falcon to drop DR ahead of their retreat path, and Nobz cant touch falcon, so either way, I don't think its really not so outrageous to say that. It is normal damage but has an AOE of 6, which means it is hitting every model, and the upgrades are easy to afford and will increase the damage significantly.
In my view of Ork vs Eldar, the Ork is on the back foot in the early game because of what should be a relentless harass. Ork can't really leave their base without waah because DA do circles around them and out-trade shootahs. When Nobz come out, this is a window where Ork actually has a good chance to do some damage, but this is still no guarantee against Eldar who spread their DA well and use grenades. At the time Nobz come out, have majority map control and ork is playing catchup at this point. Eldar can afford to lose a resource node at this point and possibly a shield gen, and if they feel they can't possibly defend their shield gen with waah+ nobz, they can potentially go for theirs to stay ahead economically. You know when Waah is comming , and so you have time to prepare. The DR teleport doctrine would actually be somewhat useful in this situation, but probably could use a buff in duration. I also feel like the shield regen upgrade should be looked at and possibly made more affordable.
We often seem to expect the players at the top of the ladder to be the very best representation of what a faction can be, but how you noticed how often they will float resources and not get upgrades?
3 DA grenades will knock out 1 nob, yet Bikerush throws his DA away completely to save on upkeep. A smarter player would at least keep a couple of each squad around for the grenades, or am I missing something here?
However, I would agree with bikerush in part that the game focuses too much around the power of elites, and it pretty lame and actually gives weight to those "TOO MOBA!" sentiments. Too many games I see large armies beated back by 1-2 elites and a powerful unit like Falcon.
@n0ave_
Bikerush trash talks me as well, guy. My learn to play comment was, at first, only half-serious banter. And I quickly edited because i though to
something better to say, not because of anything you said.
Again you didn't miss the opportunity to insult me, calling me a casual, despite being chronically wrong, with all evidence to the contrary.
Haven't you embarrassed yourself enough?
Katitof
@frumpylumps this is pure gold.
There is a math about DA nades vs nobz and you are still is in denial.
There is a math about Falcons vs nobz(assuming perfect conditions and zero damage dropoff) and you are still is in denial.
Pure.
Gold.
That is some "earth is flat, there are 53 genders and lizard men govern over USA" level of crap there.
Dude, please STOP posting anything that is related to balance, you are completely CLUELESS on every single word you say and completely wrong about every situation you describe.
You claim pair of falcons kills nobz in 17 seconds, while it takes 20 to kill LAST MODEL ALONE.
You claim 3 DA nades will kill nob model, while perfect hits will do 312 damage ONLY IF YOU HAVE DOCTRINE, while nob model have 600hp.
Just.
Stop.
I refuse to believe there is someone THAT stupid around, so you must be trolling on purpose.
STOP.
Northanui
waaagh towers could use a hp reduction, power cost increase, or req increase (since they effectively replace orks need to get LPs while also teching them up).
nobz need to be behind 4th waagh or they need some sort of serious ++heresy redacted++ nerfs.
Right now the nobz rush by a skilled player is 100.00% unbeatable.
last patch it was idiot predators, now its idiot nobz.
Murador
It's OP for sure but unbeatable is too much. Let's dont overnerf things. @frumpylumps u should work as an entertainer: we should def make a fan club thread with ur best comments
.
Siddha
Like Cat said let's focus on buffs.
I mentioned that maybe orks could go back in tech by losing the towers, which would make building them much more strategic since it would be a high target value for the opponent.
Suggestion only don't be mad
n0ave_
You are and you will be a casual player.
It`s funny how you give us exact numbers about dow3 gameplay, like 2 Falcons with can kill nobz in 17 seconds. Or 3 DA grenade can kill a nob model.
DmonBlu
Lul just get Shadow specter and micro them a bit then Nobz can be dealt with ezzz. As SM its a lot harder however if u spam scouts properly then the game wouldnt last THAT long fro Nobz to roll in. That leads to another question how can we stop scout spam??? A super expandable DT-like unit but with a super OP CC ??? Seriously Im tired of watching my whole army get chainstunned to death
. Nobz can wait we need to nerf scout 1st IMO. Increase their cost to 400 and give them a grendade throwing animation to both keep it more lore friendly and easier to dodge. 1 second delay should be enuf to keep scouts balanced and other players happy IMO
MaxwellsDaemon
@DmonBlu
bleeeechhhh!
Sorry man it's a bugbear of mine when people give oversimplified solutions such as this.
Yeah shadow spectres are a respectable counter but that's only a small part of the problem.
You are already facing a formidable t1 Ork force that's potentially buffed up with Waagh so when the nobz appear it forces you to pull away from anti infantry units. This gives the combination of nobz and t1 infantry the room to brute force waagh all over your army.
....and that's without even mentioning how long it actually takes for spectres to deal with nobz.
TLDR- in isolation spectres are a great counter but usually nobz are backed up by a tonne of stuff that will gladly tear spectres a new one.
Murador
@DmonBlu
Dts erase units in sc2 and if u got no detection or ur dection got sniped u probably just loose the game ( they are quite gimmick if rushed so).
Even so scouts are quite OP, good orcs seem to be able to deal with them a waaaghed scrapped up weirdboy erazes all scouts in the huge Q area e.g. . A Nobs nerf is required for sure. I'd like to see in adition ability scaling with waggggh removed. Waaghh buff is rly good and I hope they wont overnerf the race mechanic like they did with eldar. The boyz mechanics are quite fun!
RedDevilCG
I think I saw @vindicarex get Nobz out at the 6 minute mark yesterday against an Eldar player (he can correct me if I'm wrong).
I was really surprised at how quick he could get them out. He did sacrifice some map control using strictly boys and regular use of Waaagh along with the Weirdboy and Stormboys, but had no other power sinks. Once the Nobz came out, it was a huge momentum swing. Of course the Weirdboy and Stormboyz were also really keeping the pressure up. I didn't realize how much damage a suicide bommba would do against Webway gates. Almost one-shotting them.
I think it was @Katitof that said something like "Nobz are fine, it's when they come out that isn't." I think that might be an accurate statement.
MaxwellsDaemon
@RedDevilCG
I think both weird and storm boyz need to have a substantial damage reduction against static structures.
Makes it very easy to cheap shot webway gates.
YbuBaKa
>
Excuse me, but you can't have both: Stormboyz and Weirdboy at 6th-minute mark. You will need 8 minutes, even if you will manage to destroy shield generator. Otherwise, it will take 10 minutes to summon both elites. And nobz without Weirdboy should not be a problem: they have no real tool to actually damage taunted enemy troops. So, you've probably missed something.
Stoner
WHAT?!
Katitof
There is this thing called choppa throw that exists, which deals HUGE true damage with AoE and roots targets in place, so they can't run away after taunt.
Nobz used by someone who knows that skill exists will maul you.
Other then that, taunt-> shoota nade, taunt->stormboy suicide, taunt->let kommando 2 shot your whole infantry force.
Nob taunt got amazing synergy with pretty much everything that can cause damage in DoW3, even their very own ability.
RedDevilCG
Yeah, you're probably right that the Weirdboy wasn't up at the 6min mark, but he did join the mayhem soon after nobz hit the field. I could probably find the recording on Twitch later.
YbuBaKa
This skill has proportional effect, which depends on distance. The more is the distance to the enemy, the better Choppa Toss will be. If I will use Choppa Toss after Taunt, as you said, the effect will be vanishingly small. It is very stupid: to throw a Choppa in a point-blank range.
RedDevilCG
Yeah, the Choppa is great for getting a unit into taunt range though, so it still combos well with taunt.
vindicarex
I gotchu @RedDevilCG :
Time: 1:15:24 - My game vs Cataclaw I managed to get Nobz out by minute 6. Because I skipped stormboyz, I was able to get weirdboy out then too.
It's super easy @YbuBaKa - even some1 who has barely played Orkz (that was probably my 20th game ever as Orkz - wasn't even using half of their really good doctrines because I don't have Elites leveled at all) and made plenty of early game mistakes (like me) could use this combo to go up against a top Eldar player like Cataclaw, who has played hundreds of Eldar games.
The power spike for your army at min 6/7 is insane...
Chokolata
Simple yet effective WAAAGH fix.
Nobs:
GuruSkippy
wow wow wow
I can buy your waaagh nerf
But your nob nerf is way too much. It's a tech push, or a cost change, not the 2.
And even a tech push is not a good idea imo. People have to realise that nobz late game are not great.
frumpylumps
Lots of anecdotal evidence flying around.
I don't know whether nobz are OP when they come out, or if people don't know how to harass and defend against ork effectively, but one thing that might help the harass to be more effective is if the maps are changed so that generators are more accessible by your opponent.
As it stands, you often have to take a big risk losing your squads to harass in instances where you have to push past their shield gen to get at some of their nodes where there is only 1 narrow pathway out and where your units can be easily trapped, or where you have to cross the path of a turret to get to them.
jonoliveira12
Yep, I had an ally who rushed Nobz, taunted a huge mob of Tacts, and I just dropped 4 DA grenades for a quick clean up. Nobz are one of the best units to use in any game mode.
buggy
Listen Ork players. Listen to the cries of Eldar and Space marines coming at us with NERF Sticks.
First they came for our trukks, we said nothing.
Then they came for kommando, we said nothing,
Then they came for our killa khans, we still said nothing.
Then they took away our bomb sticks and make them do less dammage, we said nothing.
NOW TEHY ARE COMING FOR OUR NOBZ. WHAT THE ++heresy redacted++. ARE THEY NOT HAPPY UNTIL THEY NERF EVERYTHING?
Wardemon
If it turns out that nobz come out too early the easiest way to deal with that imo would be to simply add an Eldar gateway style unlock for nobz to push them to whatever timing they should be at.
AngelofDeth
I don't think Eldar would have problem against early nobz because you can either get more DR or Spectre without needing to tech up but it's still tough especially with that waggh buffs. In tier 2, it would be good if vyper weren't like a flying paper. They could make some good use against orks because their Q could slow down the incoming waagh-ed orks and the doctrine improved its utility more.