How do I use wraithblades?

CadisEtramaDiRaizel

They are a t3 unit but I dont see a purpose for them unless i want to sneak in 2 squads into the enemy camp to wreck buildings. I havent had much luck vs units.The wraith units are slow even with fleet of foot. Atleast the wraith guard( for all its other problems like rate of fire etc) has a long range which is good against speeders and walkers and is a t2 unit. By the time the wraithblade becomes available at t3, the enemy normally has lots of tank busters and lascannons. Any suggestions?

Katitof

You don't.

They have only place against wraithguard.
They can't keep up with anything else.

CadisEtramaDiRaizel

@Katitof said:
You don't.

They have only place against wraithguard.
They can't keep up with anything else.

Seems pretty lackluster for a t3 unit

MaxwellsDaemon

I've grown to like them actually - one thing is the Jain zar doctrine is a bit sub par considering most of the units health is shield.

Smellysledge

Speaking of which, does anyone know the exact stat boost Jain Zar doctrine gives for each unit loss? (Perhaps the tooltip already says, in that case disregard this - sorry)

PaperBaG

It pretty much works like the nob doctrine, but yea can be of little use sometimes bc of the shield mechanics.

Praxis

It dons't seem to be as remotely noticeable as the Nob doctrine though, but yeah, if you have Jain Zar may as well use it.

MaxwellsDaemon

Yeah it has much less effectiveness than the nob doctrine so it should probably be retuned to function off of missing shield/health (with an obviously lower damage ramp)

The Banshee doctrine for Jain Zar is still alright....sort of a worse scorpion doctrine though. These will may be be looked at.

@Smellysledge

The values are the wisewindu ability spreadsheet.

Praxis

They should really be a t2 unit. The only reason they arn't is probably because Relic realised that Eldar would basically have no t3 units.

CadisEtramaDiRaizel

@Praxis said:
They should really be a t2 unit. The only reason they arn't is probably because Relic realised that Eldar would basically have no t3 units.

Then give us a wraithseer for t3. similar model as the wraithunits but with both melee and range damage and some arcane abilties. The wraithblades can be used as t2 meat shield.

CadisEtramaDiRaizel

@CadisEtramaDiRaizel said:

@Praxis said:
They should really be a t2 unit. The only reason they arn't is probably because Relic realised that Eldar would basically have no t3 units.

Then give us a wraithseer for t3. similar model as the wraithunits but with both melee and range damage and some arcane abilties. The wraithblades can be used as t2 meat shield. Or alternatively make the wraith seer the elite and make the wraith lord a t3 with high pop cap. Since the wraith seer are much rarer than the wraithlord it fits in line with the elite criteria imo.

Guziol

I'm gonna share my little secret to make them really scary. Use the jain zhar doctrine and never reinforce them. Keep the in fight untill they are only 1 model left then recall that squad and never reinforce it. It's gonna have as much dps as a 3 blade squad, with 2 more speed and way less prone to get screwed by aoe AP damage. Since shield is per squad and not model basis it is as survivable if not more than a full squad because of before mentioned less aoe suffering.
I had single wraithblades solo terminator squads or dreadnoughts. And they are also cheaper to sustain that way because you don't drop resources on reinforcing.
The speed bonus stacks with fleet of foot btw.

MaxwellsDaemon

@guziol

You're completely right - that's a very good point! the extra damage more than makes up for the reinforce reduction cost.

Guziol

They quickly became one of my favourite eldar units with this doctrine and recent buffs. Also since eldar upgrades scale shields and not health, with more and more upgrades the diffrence between single and 3 wraithblades in total hp gets diminshed even further

AngelofDeth

@Guziol said:
They quickly became one of my favourite eldar units with this doctrine and recent buffs. Also since eldar upgrades scale shields and not health, with more and more upgrades the diffrence between single and 3 wraithblades in total hp gets diminshed even further

My blades squad lost their shield and vanished into thin air because they can't take damage from deff dread, kans, dreads, big truk, predators, etc. So, the doctrine for blades is pretty worthless but if you go for jain zar, it's fine to take the doctrine for blades.

Guziol

All in all, the doctrine is garbage, please don't use it. I totally don't want to keep it all to myself and never see it changed.

CadisEtramaDiRaizel

The eldar are actually not eldar like save for a few units. Only 1 webway portal link? when sm get 3 drop pods + a banner, and ork can chain WAAAAAAAGH. Give us a link for every production structure so we can have a network in the web way ( for t3 of course not before that) and actually be the swift footed and proud race.

Lude

ONLY! with warp spiders (against infantry as soon as you get them) except as power core drop (get vision, get Wraithknight or multiple Inifinity Portals, relocate, recall, dps the power core) but Wraithguard are usually better for that

Not sure why people are saying they get beat by deff dredds and dreadnoughts, they don't, they beat all walkers because they have 200+ dps. Just don't let them take ranged DPS (this is why you have warp spiders, for this and dropping on enemy elites for a trade). Really good against Super Heavies, when backed up by more AP dps, although you'll probably lose them

And don't take the Jain Zar doctrine, banshee stealth is much more useful

They really should be T2 though. They are useless without warp spiders, because they melt under fire so quickly. At least they would be Eldar's answer to Nobz and Dreadnoughts in T2. It's possible that they were T2 at some point and then they got nerfed to be T3, this is pretty bad for Eldar though

Guziol

Nobody builds banshees this days past first 5 minutes.

MaxwellsDaemon

@guziol

Sadly true. I find mid and late game banshees have some value vs lascannon blobs though.

The unit still needs to be looked at and given the option to scale into late game.

Thunderhost

I find banshees with Quick Strike quite viable. It does require some investment in upgrades though. And like everything else Eldar, they melt under fire.

Guziol

@MaxwellsDaemon
I will keep on asking as to what happen to quick strike having knock-up in pre-release videos and banshee tooltip. Eldar lacks CC and they have even less than intended.

MaxwellsDaemon

@Guziol

You know I have never noticed this - that could really help. Though it can't have escaped the notice of the devs right? I mean one of them must play the game

Lude

Alternatively they could have quick strike immediately without upgrade, it's a pretty useful skill as it stands, at least if you have Taldeer's command

I use banshees up until the 25 minute mark, and may continue to build them to combat blobs and if I am using Jain Zar. Detector workers are everywhere but stealth can allow you to get some scouting and helps using banshees defensively. During an attack one should use Macha's Psyker Blast with them to give them some health, this can go very well even in the late game. Maybe if I wasn't using Improved Scream I would stop using them entirely, but it is one of the best doctrines for Eldar, allowing you to silence enemy heroes and prevent blobs of ranged units from attacking. Banshees are essential line unit, even if production tapers off as heavier units take the field, meanwhile Wraithblades come late, are highly situational, and are expensive, plus the bonus only applies if you lose a model, which you do not want to do in a situation where you have a serious chance of winning the match, especially with the Eldar shield mechanic.

To an extent Banshees are interchangeable with Dire Avengers, but they have their own advantages when mixed with Elite's ability to help get them in to combat. Plus if you use infantry a lot you can get the infantry upgrades, which means they have a pretty large shield (after upgrades their shield is 250% of their base value) which means they can pay for themselves against anti-vehicle blobs even if they get blown to shreds shortly after. The buff from Macha reduces damage by 75% and increases attack damage, so they are far better than Wraithguard against infantry and elites.

AngelofDeth

@Lude said:
Alternatively they could have quick strike immediately without upgrade, it's a pretty useful skill as it stands, at least if you have Taldeer's command

I use banshees up until the 25 minute mark, and may continue to build them to combat blobs and if I am using Jain Zar. Detector workers are everywhere but stealth can allow you to get some scouting and helps using banshees defensively. During an attack one should use Macha's Psyker Blast with them to give them some health, this can go very well even in the late game. Maybe if I wasn't using Improved Scream I would stop using them entirely, but it is one of the best doctrines for Eldar, allowing you to silence enemy heroes and prevent blobs of ranged units from attacking. Banshees are essential line unit, even if production tapers off as heavier units take the field, meanwhile Wraithblades come late, are highly situational, and are expensive, plus the bonus only applies if you lose a model, which you do not want to do in a situation where you have a serious chance of winning the match, especially with the Eldar shield mechanic.

To an extent Banshees are interchangeable with Dire Avengers, but they have their own advantages when mixed with Elite's ability to help get them in to combat. Plus if you use infantry a lot you can get the infantry upgrades, which means they have a pretty large shield (after upgrades their shield is 250% of their base value) which means they can pay for themselves against anti-vehicle blobs even if they get blown to shreds shortly after. The buff from Macha reduces damage by 75% and increases attack damage, so they are far better than Wraithguard against infantry and elites.

I just can't find a room for banshees anymore since they melt fast against scouts spam (chain stun ruined them).

Lude

You need to stasis them with Macha then send the Banshees in afterward, then line up banshees with fortune (buff from Psyker Blast) to hold their units in place while dark reapers move up to deal ranged dps. Temporal Weave is the Eldar's best crowd control, I can't fight without it personally

AngelofDeth

@Lude said:
You need to stasis them with Macha then send the Banshees in afterward, then line up banshees with fortune (buff from Psyker Blast) to hold their units in place while dark reapers move up to deal ranged dps. Temporal Weave is the Eldar's best crowd control, I can't fight without it personally

It's a good idea but I'm afraid that people began to learn to separate their army and maybe your opponent has additional scout to stun macha when she stasis.

MrBenis

@CadisEtramaDiRaizel said:
They are a t3 unit but I dont see a purpose for them unless i want to sneak in 2 squads into the enemy camp to wreck buildings. I havent had much luck vs units.The wraith units are slow even with fleet of foot. Atleast the wraith guard( for all its other problems like rate of fire etc) has a long range which is good against speeders and walkers and is a t2 unit. By the time the wraithblade becomes available at t3, the enemy normally has lots of tank busters and lascannons. Any suggestions?

Wraithblades are pretty good at killing buildings or heavy armour heroes like terminators. Would recommend NOT using them as a counter to nobz or assault termies. One thing you can use them for is rushing enemy tanks as well since their charge is long range and they get a lot faster as their charge gets longer. I should make a replay to demonstrate or maybe I already have one I dunno.

Guziol

They eat nobz and assault terminators on breakfast. They have splash on their hits.

CadisEtramaDiRaizel

@Guziol said:
They eat nobz and assault terminators on breakfast. They have splash on their hits.

I think he meant assault marines not terminators.

Dandalus

They are useful to protect eldar main army from melee enemies.