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Dealing with aggressive Eldar?
Shuttdown
As an Ork...how do you deal with a really aggressive Eldar?
The other night, I played 3 matches in 1v1s. One against a top 150 (I think) Eldar, and two matches against the same rank 4 Eldar. I think I'm rank 380 something Ork lol. I only get one or two nights a week to play... anyway, both Eldar used nearly the exact same builds...
Anyway. My usual builds go like this...early tower and boyz hut near my generator on Mork's mire or maybe a dakka hut for lootas and boyz combo. The last 2 matches were on Charon's Rest where I do a similar build near the bottom node, or in the center high ground close to my side.
Both Eldar players built a bonesinger and two DAs to start, adding a third DA soon after. One bonesinger builds a forward webway gate and the other captures points, building req gens on them...by 2:30 a warrior portal is done and DRs come out followed by a single banshee to pair with Scorpions at around 4 min.
This build seem unstoppable as an ork...my boyz trade poorly with DAs who grenade, outrun and once the shield is down on a squad I need to back off because the models I lost are too much. Even if I am 1:1 ratio on boyz to DAs. If I get a shoota or loota out, bonesingers easily tie them up and I end up having to run them around like crazy just to try and get a single shot off. DRs support fire once out, and any towers I proc get focused by Scorpions and banshee squad. The only way I can remotely claw back from this is destroy the webway or get a good stormboy suicide bomba on DAs. But, typically this has ended my game within 5-8 min.
I don't claim to be good and I know I am outclassed in both skill and experience with these opponents, but the absolute defeat I have received 3 times in a row has really killed my confidence to play this game 1v1 competitively. It is the first I have experience such total defeat in this game. I felt helpless. One of the games on Charon's Rest ended with Macha coming out early with elite gen up (this was around 9 min) and alone with macha, scorpiions, banshee, couple DRs and handful of DAs melted my boyz, gen, and turret and before I even had to option to surrender.
What can Orks really do against this? If I defend my buildings, the opposite shield gen gets attacked. If I displace my army to respond, my buildings or opposite shield gen get attacked. One game I tried to send stormboyz out to harrass points, and I just couldn't because DAs chased him around and banshees charged in with scorpions, silence from their scream prevented me from jumping out. I just don't know how to respond to this.
Comments
PaperBaG
Yea it's pretty hard to fight against and this is coming from a rank 22 ork as of this post. This is due to the fact that DA can be made quickly w/o production building and good ork counters to DA like lootas need a tower and dakkahut and shootas can trade ok with them but still need boyz hut out So there's 3 DA right in your face, and good eldar won't bleed because of the shield mechanic. Best bet is to use healing scrap to kinda off set your model losses as best as possible. You basically have to play really defensively until you can get a safe waagh off and have a loota squad w scrap to stop them from running away, make an extra grot squad early to run around stealthed and see were that webway is. On a map like mork's mine it's pretty dam hard, don't get too discouraged and I wouldn't build gens on your natural resource point until this part of the game has passed bc every eldar just teleports bonesinger up there and DA from far away can snipe early gens.
Shuttdown
@PaperBaG
Thanks for the response. Perhaps my play is too aggressive against this Eldar opening. Usually after the first engagement with my 3 boyz I will back off and waaagh right away with my tower and try to charge and trap the DAs, but he will simply run away, kite, and grenade to escape. It is really hard to stay even with the model count. The first game I played against the number 4 Eldar I went tower into dakka hut for lootas. Once he scouted where my hut was placed as soon as lootas came out he charged up a DA squad in melee and his DR was in the fog of war shooting in and a couple other DA were kiting my boyz while I tried to chase them off of my lootas. These games have been over for me before scrap was plentiful enough for more than just 1 or 2 of my squads.
Auni
the easy way to survive is, place your wagh tower on highground, and play loota/truck build!!
And you need Beuty doktrin , its relativ simple.
Build 2 boyz, 1 wagh, 1 dakkahut and instantly a loota! scrap him up and let him near your wagh tower (high ground if possible)
If eldar want to push in, press wagh button, you get a Bubble (beuty doktrin) nothing can hit you, and your loota with scrap with kill atleast 1 DA!
It really depends on your map.
If you manage to get
1.) wagh towert
1.) loota with scrap
1.) atleast 2-3 Power reactors you are in a decent spot!
Eldar is pretty weak against fast truck's .
Dark reaper are to slow to avoid suicide bomba,
I would not go to shoota spam against DA.
If the Eldar player has a gate near of his DA he could trade endless against your shoota without loosing anything!
Range from DA is higher, movementspeed is higher, and you got a buffer (shield)
It doesn't hurt you if a eldar player has 1 ressource point more then you in the first 4 mins, and even if he build up a reactor . it doesn't matter.
Cause you summon stormboy on min 4, and you got 1 truck, 2 loota 2/3boyz and stormboy + wagh .
Eldar has NOTHING on min 4 to defend the ressource location.
You could build while pushing a second truck, or some power reactors or another wagh tower.
BUt really important is the Beuty doktrin, this will help you also in the later stages of the game.
Eldar player's play mostly only range dd unit's. cause Banshee's are not really good. Atleast without upgrades and in a decent number (2-4 squads)
Also the truck doktrin to beam units into the truck is VERY HELPFULL against eldar. espacialy if you play with loota.
you can replace the loota to different locations, this will help you alot!
So basicly the "best" setup against eldar is
Elite = Stormboy, weirdboy , gorgnutz (truck doktrin)
Doktrin's = "Scrap heal" "beuty wagh bubble" and the third depend on map.
Small maps = i would take better shout or a Doktrin for my Nobz
On big maps = i would take the rocket for killa kans, and maybe gorgnutz out and beuty in.
so i take second truck doktrin, cause beuty is in my elite squad.
DerCremige
Thats what I say all the time, the mobility of Eldar simply is too much for the squishy Orc-Units to handle. They poke you to death. Should they lose their shield, they simply retread. There are plenty of builts Eldars can abuse. Mass DA, Mass Rangers, Banshee with stealth. Orc counters come much too late for that (Nobz/Truck, while Truck is no real counter). As soon as the economy damage is done, you are behind. And you can't prevent it.
And now they even nerf wagh towers, which is the biggest joke, cause Webway is much stronger.
Lude
As Eldar, Lootas in your base make it essentially a no-go zone. Make sure you are using grots to clear out my spotters and provide yourself with intel, this is the best way to counter aggressive poking; he's only able to do this because of the fact he can see your units, but you can't see his. Good Weirdboy play also definitely essential. Scrap Blast 1-shots rangers without T2 upgrades + so use this deterrent to get you past Eldar's early-mid game harassment before moving on to a lategame build
Lude
Trukks also help very much to counter Fleet of Foot!
Shuttdown
By far I would agree that lootas are the best defense, however they are just a defense. Map control is forfeit if Eldar player keeps up pressure. The proposed Ork changes worry me when considering this build coming out. The power changes coupled with the the fact that waaagh towers have increased cost combined again with the fact that this Eldar build opens with minimal power expenditures means this could become the go-to Eldar vs Ork opening. This also pushes lootas back by nearly half a minute, where as Eldar will continue to have all options nearly unaffected (a banshee or DR at 2:30, it may slow req gens though)... Even then, this Edlar player managed to cancel my first loota squad by simply running a DA into their face (in the first game, second game I went shootas). I can imagine if he knew the loota's placement to simply warp a bonesinger on-top and engage in melee...
I always thought if Eldar players were simply more aggressive early in-game then they wouldn't consider themselves under-powered. All the Eldar player needs to do is avoid being caught out of position and back-off when shields are low. Retreating to their webway. Meanwhile Orks need a good waaagh to chase the Eldar player away and wrestle some back some map control.
Dandalus
Such rude Eldar! How could they not let you win!
SupremeSkill
2 or 3 shootas, 1 worker to engage in melee and waagh buff will get those DAs. They will melt under shoota and they will kite boyz too easily without trukk. Trukk will later help you to get in melee range where Eldar units are weak.
My opinion: go fast trukk, the trukk can dish out damage by itself too, or get a few shootas.
Destroy their webway gate(s) when using waagh if they retreat.
Lude
I agree with this too an extent, Eldar can be strong early game, but it's touch and go, because a good player of both other factions should be able to overpower you... unless you play almost perfectly and perform some miracles with your early elites before you get to endgame... This patch will definitely be a big help to Eldar though.