@Brichals said:
I must admit I'm somewhat triggered by such a person that can play this game in 3 times 2 hour chunks and then profess to knowing everything that's wrong with the game on account of their advanced and finely tuned cognitive abilities.
Honestly I think the best that the DoW3 detractors can do is just chill out and wait for new content instead of actively trying to kill the game on arrival. Then they can pick it up again in a year or so's time when it's cool and pretend that they liked it all along and were playing since the first week!
I'd like to know where I stated anywhere that I profess to know everything that's wrong with the game. Your conjecture is so over the top, you completely ignored the over 50 hours of gameplay I had in the beta, that is essentially minus a few tweaks the exact same base game and mechanics we have now. Each chunk of play was for 2 hours to get into the game, and pour over each unit that was changed in a recent patch, testing the tweaks to those units against previously known units from each race to see how each change affected gameplay at its most rudimentary level between units without the added variables of an opponent.
When I saw that the game that released was in fact the beta, and that the beta wasn't an older playable build for testing the servers I knew I wouldn't enjoy the gameplay for my own reasons that I've stated elsewhere (Personally for me its how doctrines work and are implemented in design that totally sucks the fun out of the game for me, not balance)
So I already had nearly 60 hours in the base game proper, with the same balance that the game launched with, and built on that information with each consecutive balance patch, and that includes hotfixes. You make it out like I'm claiming to be some DoW3 messiah that will deliver unto you the Eden of RTS's, and that's so far removed from someone taking a critical eye and taking the time to not just look over the numbers, but to take a few hours after each balance update to properly test those changes. I know enough about experience that I didn't want to taint that data with personal feelings from how they feel in game against opponents, especially losses.
I've talked to one of DoW1 streamer, Astrohero. I asked him whether he will buy DoW3 when necron's are out since he loves necron so much. He said he'll surely try DoW3 if multiple races will be out. Currently he wasn't sure whether he should get the game or not because of STEAM REVIEWS while he said DoW3 LOOKS FINE to him and really wanted to try it. So I guess everything was because of steam reviews. Many are not confident to buy DoW3 and because of that it limits the chances for DoW3 to get new players.
Really? That's your conclusion? Since ONE DoW1 streamer (I didn't even know those even existed) said the negative reviews gave him pause that means that EVERYTHING is because of steam reviews? Just to be sure...are you trolling?
The steam reviews are incredible. Page after page of negative ranting. Anybody would think the game is an absolute mess when it's in fact the most polished DoW release yet. A large part of the community should hang their head in shame. The game doesn't deserve this, I am ashamed that I am part of this community. They did the same to DoW2 aswell which otherwise is one of the best RTS games in the last decade, killed by an immature playerbase.
@Amoc said:
Really? That's your conclusion? Since ONE DoW1 streamer (I didn't even know those even existed) said the negative reviews gave him pause that means that EVERYTHING is because of steam reviews? Just to be sure...are you trolling?
Please refrain from accusing other forum members of trolling.
The same goes for calling a large group of players "immature", @Brichals. We don't need these kinds of antagonistic language.
@Brichals said:
The steam reviews are incredible. Page after page of negative ranting. Anybody would think the game is an absolute mess when it's in fact the most polished DoW release yet. A large part of the community should hang their head in shame. The game doesn't deserve this, I am ashamed that I am part of this community. They did the same to DoW2 aswell which otherwise is one of the best RTS games in the last decade, killed by an immature playerbase.
Welcome to 2017, when it is already shameful that people are dissapointed about how their beloved franchise "evolved" and voice their opinions. The current policial correct meta for this behavior is "aknowledging" that those people are somehow inferior and simply do not grasp the greatness of this game.... /irony off
Seriously you should simply come to terms that LOTS of people simply dislike the game for various reasons. Those are not "bots" (another meta term these days to call posters that have a different opinion), those are normal gamers like you and me. You dont need to act superior in any way because of that. I can understand that it is hard to find oneself on the side of a minority, its not a good feeling but you simply have to accept that the vast majority of the potential dow-playerbase simply does not agree with the assessment that the game is OK.
However my opinion is that for you to call the balance atrocious you are way off the mark....
Orks need toning down but it's not atrociously bad. I beat a few high ranking orks in the ladder yesterday as Eldar.
You may not have to play to observe trends but you should at least recognise that by relying on outdated experience (beta play) and relying on streams of others you don't represent a good source of knowledge of the game....that's speaking objectively in the same manner I would any source be it positive or negative.
To my mind it doesn't seem especially balanced of you not to recognise or acknowledge that alongside what you've written in you're review...and is indeed the kind of thing I hope those of us who have played a lot and enjoy the game can somewhat ameliorate.
I'd argue that my experience in the genre as a whole from all the way back to warcraft 1 before there was even internet says otherwise. I'm extremely good at processing data in just numerical form and could tell you by just looking at numbers on a spreadsheet where balance issues are going to arise, it was my freakin job for the military that I can't go into great deal because it all dealt with highly classified information, to analyze data in just such a form and make sense of it. They affectionately call it "games and theory"
You make some heavy assumptions as well, when was the last balance patch. June 27th. When did I last play DoW3, July 3rd. If you could see my total play history for the game, you'd noticed I played for about 2 hours after both of the balance patches we've gotten. That's enough for me to make a fairly reasonable judgement on the state of balance in the game. I'm sorry that it takes longer for you, but this is something that is second nature for me due to the training and schooling that the military gave me while I was enlisted.
I have you beat I played Dune2 the first RTS ever :P
And this version of DOW is the most nonfun rts I have recently played.
@WorlockOrk said:
Well it's your opinion. However, the game mutation has created new fan base which is completely oposite of the old one. The only problem I see with that is that the name of dow franshise was stolen from dow fan base in order to create new one.
By old fan base I think you mean Soulstorm compstomp warriors that are the total antithesis of a modern competitive RTS playerbase. I'm also sorry that there's not as much single player content but Relic make RTS games, not model train simulators.
I think it's a bit rich that somebody plays a few games in 6.7 hours, buys the farm a few too many times (see what I did there, I can read BOOKS too), and then acts as an authority on the game.
So by your own argument you are already saying that DOW3 is dead than? Since your modern competitive RTS playerbase has adhd'ed and abandoned the game already . I hear wait times are now up to around 30 mins for an auto match.
And you know since those old Soulstorm Compstop Warriors are still playing that game like 10 years later enough to total out higher than DOW3's current playerbase, maybe they should have catered to them instead?
I know logic isn't really pushed in the schools anymore when you can go for self righteous indignation or elitism. But hoping reality will sink into someone at Relic.
I imagine Relic has a better grasp of reality and the current situation than most of the game's defenders. It's easy for the game's fans to say the game is great and that it has a bright future following the current course, but Relic is a business and they're looking at the aggregated feedback, the sales and the tiny remaining player base and making some obvious conclusions.
@Brichals said:
I must admit I'm somewhat triggered by such a person that can play this game in 3 times 2 hour chunks and then profess to knowing everything that's wrong with the game on account of their advanced and finely tuned cognitive abilities.
Honestly I think the best that the DoW3 detractors can do is just chill out and wait for new content instead of actively trying to kill the game on arrival. Then they can pick it up again in a year or so's time when it's cool and pretend that they liked it all along and were playing since the first week!
This guys has been playing rtss' since Warcraft1. That means he has played a lot of them over time. And yes once you get a baseline of experience in genre you can get a feel for the tempo and underlying mechanics of a game pretty ++heresy redacted++ fast. I was gonna preorder this just on the franchise's reputation alone but thank god I waited till the open beta. Cause you could tell it was going to be a shitshow just from playing in that weekend. Nobody listened at Relic apparnly because they turned into an echo chamber and this game was the result. It got rightly crucified by many of the old players and the new players they were trying to cater to already abandoned it. Its not looking good for this game or for Relic right now. I hope they can turn it around.
@Chriskovo said:
This guys has been playing rtss' since Warcraft1. That means he has played a lot of them over time. And yes once you get a baseline of experience in genre you can get a feel for the tempo and underlying mechanics of a game pretty ++heresy redacted++ fast. I was gonna preorder this just on the franchise's reputation alone but thank god I waited till the open beta. Cause you could tell it was going to be a shitshow just from playing in that weekend. Nobody listened at Relic apparnly because they turned into an echo chamber and this game was the result. It got rightly crucified by many of the old players and the new players they were trying to cater to already abandoned it. Its not looking good for this game or for Relic right now. I hope they can turn it around.
I was playing Herzog Zwei (which looking back is actually a MOBA), Populous and Mega-Lo-Mania. Warcraft 1 is not the birth of RTS games although it certainly did set a mould. I was playing Dune 2 the other day on emulator.
I can only say that people are very matter-of-factly calling DoW3 a redactedshow and accusing Relic of abandoning a playerbase (I'm not even sure what playerbase that is, you can scroll up for my thoughts on that) when they have only played 6.7 hours: or in your case it seems, haven't even purchased the game.
BTW the Herzog Zwei reference just goes to show that RTS and MOBA have always been intimately linked.
@Chriskovo said:
I have you beat I played Dune2 the first RTS ever :P
And this version of DOW is the most nonfun rts I have recently played.
same here bud dune 2 on DOS and everything in between, and this dawn of war is the MOST FUN RTS i have recently played. we played dawn of war 1 on LAN for many many years, and half of them hated dawn of war 2 just the same as people here hate dawn of war 3. some of them still hate 2. the franchise is used to doing things differently, evolving, changing, streamlining gameplay, and most of all, it's used to the hate.
if you guys don't like how it plays, that's fine. if you hate it so much, just go away. would you walk up to a public basketball court and start yelling that this version of basketball sucks and the field should be smaller and everyone should SLOW DOWN. people are ACTUALLY COMPLAINING about this being "competitive". they think that automatically can only mean e-sports overwatch kids and nothing else. you actually blamed people like me for ruining your "slow" gameplay, as if we "aren't thinking or having fun, just spamming mindlessly". as if RTS games haven't been designed this way since forever ago.
if you played dune 2 then you can understand that all RTS since its inception has been competitive BY NATURE. i harvest to build military units to kill your buildings. RTS. if i can do it faster than you, YOU LOSE. COMPETITION. IM NOT TRYING TO MINE OUT THE MAP AND THEN QUIT WITH NO CASUALTIES. IS CHESS A COMPETITIVE GAME? HOW CAN IT BE, IT ONLY HAS 6 UNIT TYPES AND 1 MAP! IS CHESS A FARMING GAME OR A PUZZLE GAME? IS CHESS A MOBA? WHAT ABOUT THE GAME 'GO'? THE ANCIENT STRATEGY GAME WITH 1 UNIT TYPE? DOESN'T SOUND LIKE A COMPETITIVE GAME IF IT ONLY HAS 1 UNIT!
if you want to take turns staring at armies auto-attacking each other, THERE'S TOTAL WAR FOR THAT. but guess what the objective is in total war? if you don't like the abilities, then you don't even like any RTS from the past 20 years. starcraft vanilla had psi-storm, ensnare, plague, irradiate, emp, nuke, defensive matrix, spawn broodlings... if you don't like the art style because it is "cartoony" (omg i still don't understand this one one bit), you must not have seen dawn of war 1's models, or warcraft 3. or older games workshop for that matter... how is this cartoony? because of the occlusion outlines? the camera height?
again, it's fine if you don't like it, but it has been a bandwagon of complete hatred for a pretty great video game that everyone expected something completely different out of. even i was skeptical going into beta, but i was sold on my 3rd 3v3. phenomenal action, more than anything i had done in the previous games, and with less players. there is so much misinformation and subjective opinion being presented as fact. anyone who says "MOBA elements" doesn't understand genres. there ARE NO MOBA ELEMENTS. NO SUCH THING. THE MOBA IS AN RTS WITH REDUCED UNIT CONTROL AND RPG ELEMENTS. WHEN YOU ADD RPG ELEMENTS TO AN RTS IT IS STILL AN RTS, SEE WARCRAFT 3. you could argue for "tower-defense elements" or "tug-of-war" elements, but those fall short as well, since RTS IS ALL OF THEM COMBINED WITH ARMY CONTROL. THOSE ARE THE CUSTOM GAMES, THEY WERE MADE BY PEOPLE THAT DON'T WANT TO PLAY RTS BUT WANT TO PLAY RTS.
stop saying "moba-like" or "moba feel" just because you only know how to play MOBAs. i can tell. you guys either only play mobas or have never ever seen one. this game plays NOTHING like a moba, anywhere, ever, even on the maps with "lanes". you should be glad there aren't any maps with "rivers", another "moba original element". can you see how silly the phrase "moba elements" sounds? they are ONLY RPG ELEMENTS OR RTS ELEMENTS BECAUSE A MOBA IS AN RTS/RPG HYBRID. THE MOBA IS THE CUSTOM GAME. THERE ARE NO MOBA HYBRIDS BECAUSE MOBA IS THE HYBRID.
just know if you say the game is MOBA, i don't take a single thing you say seriously. i don't consider your input valuable to any conversation we could have around the game. looking at a lot of you on here. pure unadulterated ignorance is being spread around this game, especially with all the likening to starcraft, LoL, and even DotA... just stop for a moment and think about what you are saying. i've seen them. "this is just a MOBA with base building" or "this is just a MOBA where you control your creeps"... "its too spammy like starcraft, i can't think"... THEN IT IS AN RTS BECAUSE IT HAS BUILDINGS AND ARMY CONTROL AND A LEARNING CURVE WHICH INVOLVES BEATING SPAM LIKE FIREBALLS IN FIGHTING GAMES. BLOCK, YOU SCRUBS. DAY ONE.
THE ONLY THING THE DEVELOPERS SAID THEY TOOK (THIS IS FROM ALL YOUR PRECIOUS ARTICLES AND INTERVIEWS TOO) IS CLARITY OF GAMEPLAY, AS IN PLASMA TRAIL ON THE GRENADE, AND VISIBLE TEMPLATES.
POWER CORE MODE IS FROM DAWN OF WAR 2. DIRECTLY. HOW ANYONE MISSES THIS IS BEYOND ME. HEROES WERE IN ALL GAMES AND STRONG ABILITIES WERE ALSO PRESENT. RUSH TACTICS WERE ALSO PRESENT IN BOTH GAMES AS WAS THIS "UNIT SPAM" EVERYONE IS SO IGNORANTLY COMPLAINING ABOUT SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW TO EVEN DO IT RIGHT MUCH LESS COUNTER IT, SHOWING YOUR KNOWLEDGE LEVEL.
hate the game all you want, but JUST LEAVE WE DON'T CARE THAT YOU AREN'T SKILLED ENOUGH TO BE PATIENT.
@Brichals said:
The steam reviews are incredible. Page after page of negative ranting. Anybody would think the game is an absolute mess when it's in fact the most polished DoW release yet. A large part of the community should hang their head in shame. The game doesn't deserve this, I am ashamed that I am part of this community. They did the same to DoW2 aswell which otherwise is one of the best RTS games in the last decade, killed by an immature playerbase.
The game killed itself, the game sold around 250,000, it is now down to 0.2% of that number still playing. 4000 negative reviews has nothing to do with 99% of players abandoning the game.
It's a mediocre game, you can blame others if you want, but the simple fact is, the large majority simply just did not enjoy the game. The failings of this game are it's own, the community should not hang it's head in shame for simply not enjoying a mediocre game.
Even when it comes to reviews, if you look, a large portion of the negative reviews are people with 30-125 hours playing, with long reviews explaining with it is bad.
Most of the positive ones though, seem less of a review and more of an attack on "haters" which I always find stupid, people turn such a blind eye to things they are loyal to and can't accept that just maybe people didn't like the game, instead of "I liked it, everyone that didn't is just a hater out to bring this game down becuase they are haters!"
Thanks for posting this thread it reminded me to write a review.
Dawn of war 3 is really awesome game because battles are much more epic dynamic pretty looking micro intensive than dow1/2 and also it sounds very good. Do not be scared to lose this game will match you with many players your level or worse so with a bit of practice win many fights. Campaign pretty good but not amazing but gives you good practice and XP definitely worth a play. Haters are just♥♥♥♥♥♥at game or refuse to not play it the exact same way they play dow1/2(either that or they are boring people who dont like fun epic things). You play a bit and learn a bit and you will have epic time. Game is not dead you get match quickly many times and long times only a few minutes rare you have to wait long, or you just use browser to find game really quick if dont want to wait.
I decided to keep my review brief and to the point I don't like overly long reviews. Many could write better reviews if they were more to the point like me, fx I could have also written this sentence as "Even though I am not a proffesional reviewer I do think you could learn from me by making your reviews more to the point also". You should not add a bunch of parentheses and extra information before the important point but after or omit it.
Making steam reviews is also not, not useful. That is because people do read your review and click button to say if they find it useful. You can see this by going to steam profile and clicking on reviews. Review I posted today was found useful by 3 out of 8 people. It is hard to say if it is due to the review being posititive, the gramma errors, or dissatisfaction with the review itself though.
You can post a positive review and that is fine, I've naturally done so, but this game has such a geek train around it that your positive review will be most likely downvoted. It's always the same in common forums and platforms like Steam, that there happens this uncritical mass thinking phenomenon, so called hive mind, lol.
Go post something negative about Witcher 3 and you are the devil itself. Post positive about DoW 3 and you are an insane heretic.
I still believe that most of the customers have a mind of their own and they will overlook the reviews if the gameplay videos, pictures and such information pleases them. In the end RTS games are often played with friends and if you happen to have one of those hate harversters in your play group, it's tough luck.
Let haters hate.
I actually happen to know a guy who paints those little Warhammer figures and has played a lot of DoW 2, but didn't even try DoW 3, because it's a MOBA game of course, but that is most likely because one or more of his gamer fellows are those so called die hard dow fans.
I swear there used to be a comment here saying I reminded them of someone named smelly Martin, with a smiley at the end. Why is this comment not here anymore? was it removed? don't remove bring it back; or you delete it yourself cause you are too shy to leave it up? don't be shy bring it back! #BringBackSmellyMartin
@Chriskovo said:
I have you beat I played Dune2 the first RTS ever :P
And this version of DOW is the most nonfun rts I have recently played.
same here bud dune 2 on DOS and everything in between, and this dawn of war is the MOST FUN RTS i have recently played. we played dawn of war 1 on LAN for many many years, and half of them hated dawn of war 2 just the same as people here hate dawn of war 3. some of them still hate 2. the franchise is used to doing things differently, evolving, changing, streamlining gameplay, and most of all, it's used to the hate.
if you guys don't like how it plays, that's fine. if you hate it so much, just go away. would you walk up to a public basketball court and start yelling that this version of basketball sucks and the field should be smaller and everyone should SLOW DOWN. people are ACTUALLY COMPLAINING about this being "competitive". they think that automatically can only mean e-sports overwatch kids and nothing else. you actually blamed people like me for ruining your "slow" gameplay, as if we "aren't thinking or having fun, just spamming mindlessly". as if RTS games haven't been designed this way since forever ago.
if you played dune 2 then you can understand that all RTS since its inception has been competitive BY NATURE. i harvest to build military units to kill your buildings. RTS. if i can do it faster than you, YOU LOSE. COMPETITION. IM NOT TRYING TO MINE OUT THE MAP AND THEN QUIT WITH NO CASUALTIES. IS CHESS A COMPETITIVE GAME? HOW CAN IT BE, IT ONLY HAS 6 UNIT TYPES AND 1 MAP! IS CHESS A FARMING GAME OR A PUZZLE GAME? IS CHESS A MOBA? WHAT ABOUT THE GAME 'GO'? THE ANCIENT STRATEGY GAME WITH 1 UNIT TYPE? DOESN'T SOUND LIKE A COMPETITIVE GAME IF IT ONLY HAS 1 UNIT!
if you want to take turns staring at armies auto-attacking each other, THERE'S TOTAL WAR FOR THAT. but guess what the objective is in total war? if you don't like the abilities, then you don't even like any RTS from the past 20 years. starcraft vanilla had psi-storm, ensnare, plague, irradiate, emp, nuke, defensive matrix, spawn broodlings... if you don't like the art style because it is "cartoony" (omg i still don't understand this one one bit), you must not have seen dawn of war 1's models, or warcraft 3. or older games workshop for that matter... how is this cartoony? because of the occlusion outlines? the camera height?
again, it's fine if you don't like it, but it has been a bandwagon of complete hatred for a pretty great video game that everyone expected something completely different out of. even i was skeptical going into beta, but i was sold on my 3rd 3v3. phenomenal action, more than anything i had done in the previous games, and with less players. there is so much misinformation and subjective opinion being presented as fact. anyone who says "MOBA elements" doesn't understand genres. there ARE NO MOBA ELEMENTS. NO SUCH THING. THE MOBA IS AN RTS WITH REDUCED UNIT CONTROL AND RPG ELEMENTS. WHEN YOU ADD RPG ELEMENTS TO AN RTS IT IS STILL AN RTS, SEE WARCRAFT 3. you could argue for "tower-defense elements" or "tug-of-war" elements, but those fall short as well, since RTS IS ALL OF THEM COMBINED WITH ARMY CONTROL. THOSE ARE THE CUSTOM GAMES, THEY WERE MADE BY PEOPLE THAT DON'T WANT TO PLAY RTS BUT WANT TO PLAY RTS.
stop saying "moba-like" or "moba feel" just because you only know how to play MOBAs. i can tell. you guys either only play mobas or have never ever seen one. this game plays NOTHING like a moba, anywhere, ever, even on the maps with "lanes". you should be glad there aren't any maps with "rivers", another "moba original element". can you see how silly the phrase "moba elements" sounds? they are ONLY RPG ELEMENTS OR RTS ELEMENTS BECAUSE A MOBA IS AN RTS/RPG HYBRID. THE MOBA IS THE CUSTOM GAME. THERE ARE NO MOBA HYBRIDS BECAUSE MOBA IS THE HYBRID.
** just know if you say the game is MOBA, i don't take a single thing you say seriously. i don't consider your input valuable to any conversation we could have around the game. looking at a lot of you on here. pure unadulterated ignorance is being spread around this game**, especially with all the likening to starcraft, LoL, and even DotA... just stop for a moment and think about what you are saying. i've seen them. "this is just a MOBA with base building" or "this is just a MOBA where you control your creeps"... "its too spammy like starcraft, i can't think"... THEN IT IS AN RTS BECAUSE IT HAS BUILDINGS AND ARMY CONTROL AND A LEARNING CURVE WHICH INVOLVES BEATING SPAM LIKE FIREBALLS IN FIGHTING GAMES. BLOCK, YOU SCRUBS. DAY ONE.
THE ONLY THING THE DEVELOPERS SAID THEY TOOK (THIS IS FROM ALL YOUR PRECIOUS ARTICLES AND INTERVIEWS TOO) IS CLARITY OF GAMEPLAY, AS IN PLASMA TRAIL ON THE GRENADE, AND VISIBLE TEMPLATES.
POWER CORE MODE IS FROM DAWN OF WAR 2. DIRECTLY. HOW ANYONE MISSES THIS IS BEYOND ME. HEROES WERE IN ALL GAMES AND STRONG ABILITIES WERE ALSO PRESENT. RUSH TACTICS WERE ALSO PRESENT IN BOTH GAMES AS WAS THIS "UNIT SPAM" EVERYONE IS SO IGNORANTLY COMPLAINING ABOUT SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW TO EVEN DO IT RIGHT MUCH LESS COUNTER IT, SHOWING YOUR KNOWLEDGE LEVEL.
** hate the game all you want, but JUST LEAVE WE DON'T CARE THAT YOU AREN'T SKILLED ENOUGH TO BE PATIENT.**
Why would I leave positive feedback about this game and mislead people into thinking it is actually good? Isn't that counter-productive to how Steam reviews are supposed to work?
If you don't like it then yes, that would be dishonest.
However, since this thread was directed at those who do like the game and encouraging them to leave a review, I'm not entirely sure why you felt the need to make that comment?
If you don't like it then yes, that would be dishonest.
However, since this thread was directed at those who do like the game and encouraging them to leave a review, I'm not entirely sure why you felt the need to make that comment?
this franchise must really be at the most embarassing, sorry, lowest imaginable point ever, if "call to arms" threads like this are needed at all. I cant remember anything remotely embarassing in any other game in my over 20 year gaming career. The pure existence of such a thread is proof enough of how dead this game is but the naysayers still continue to say that "its too early to say". Lol what? Which kind of miracle are you waiting for? Necrons DLC that will permantenly increase the active playerbase by thousands? Keep dreaming.
I mean yes you can keep coming to this forum saying yourself: "I like this game and some others do, so it is good" but it wont change the ultimate fact, that the vast majority of the fanbase simply hates this game and therefore abandoned it within just 3 months. Thats gotta be one of the fastest deaths of a new game that I witnessed apart from Battleborn but in that case I actually feel sorry for it because it was a decent game which was just advertised wrongly and came out at the most unsuitable timeframe ever. Cannot say the same about dow3.
1 year ago the ultimate killer argument on this forum was "wait for release and see". Now it has turned to "its too early to say" and indirect arguments along the lines of "the critics are just too dumb to understand the glory of the game". In psychology terms I would call this behavior the 1st stage of grief and loss - being denial of the truth.
What kind of doom are you waiting for? It needs to be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyy more dead than this before game can not be played; content and updates are still coming out; at any time multiple people are streaming the game on twitch. More than 100 items on steam workshop. What kind of miracle would we even be waiting for? DLC? why would one even buy the vanilla game now if don't like it as is, not like DLC is going to be free, never was.
The game has a really low player base and wasn't received well by a great many fans.
No one's really debating that and that's also not what this thread is about.
I like the game as do approximately 1000 other players at least...I'm not trying to build a fanboy army or debate whether the game is a success or not....what I'm trying to do is encourage those that enjoy it to leave a positive(and honest) review. That may, in some small way, help improve the outlook of the game with regards to it's player pool.
Do me a favour and if you want to discuss the relative success/failure of the game go and start a separate thread or pitch into one of the many pre existing threads that have been hashing that discussion out over the past 2.5 months.
@MaxwellsDaemon said:
I like the game as do approximately 1000 other players at least...
To be fair, the number is significantly higher than that. You have around 40,000 people who've played the game in the last 2 weeks. Of those, over half played 1:14 or less (ouch) BUT the other half played enough to bring the overall average above 4 hours. So what can we conclude from that? Not that much...but there has to at LEAST be a few thousand people playing the game on the regular. The peak player numbers are what you're quoting, and that's the simplest and best relative comparison we have for player health. I just think it's important to understand what the numbers mean....
@Fr3quency said:
this franchise must really be at the most embarassing, sorry, lowest imaginable point ever, if "call to arms" threads like this are needed at all. I cant remember anything remotely embarassing in any other game in my over 20 year gaming career. The pure existence of such a thread is proof enough of how dead this game is but the naysayers still continue to say that "its too early to say". Lol what? Which kind of miracle are you waiting for? Necrons DLC that will permantenly increase the active playerbase by thousands? Keep dreaming.
The call to arms to get the hate snowball rolling for the game was happening leading up to release, and I wouldn't be surprised if there was a call somewhere to leave negative reviews on Steam to try to hurt the game.
I legitimately don't see what's wrong with trying to promote awareness of the Steam review situation and getting people involved. Even though it might not seem hugely influential, someone perusing Steam who is on the fence about it could very easily be swayed by the overall score, and the reviews themselves, without caring to put the time into figuring out if the negative reviews are even accurate (last I checked, many of them had many things objectively wrong, not just them saying they didn't like the game).
As a personal example, sometimes I just sift through Steam games, and one of the things I'll look at first after getting a summary of the game are the reviews. I always spot check both positive and negative reviews, just to see the flavor of both. Now for DoW 3, the negative reviews seem manic/frenzied, so I'd be personally skeptical, but I can definitely understand people seeing that as game baggage and not bothering.
@PrimaGoosa said:
As a personal example, sometimes I just sift through Steam games, and one of the things I'll look at first after getting a summary of the game are the reviews. I always spot check both positive and negative reviews, just to see the flavor of both. Now for DoW 3, the negative reviews seem manic/frenzied, so I'd be personally skeptical, but I can definitely understand people seeing that as game baggage and not bothering.
As a counter to that, I'm sure you also saw the quality of most of the positive reviews - which spend about as much time criticizing the negative reviews as they do actually saying anything worthwhile about the game.
Honestly when I buy a game I check Steam Reviews too, and just like you go through the positive and the negative. I do, however, tend to find the negative ones more useful, because they seem to more specifically qualify exactly what they don't like and why. This last bit wasn't a commentary on DoW III - just the Steam reviews in general.
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Strangequark
I'd like to know where I stated anywhere that I profess to know everything that's wrong with the game. Your conjecture is so over the top, you completely ignored the over 50 hours of gameplay I had in the beta, that is essentially minus a few tweaks the exact same base game and mechanics we have now. Each chunk of play was for 2 hours to get into the game, and pour over each unit that was changed in a recent patch, testing the tweaks to those units against previously known units from each race to see how each change affected gameplay at its most rudimentary level between units without the added variables of an opponent.
When I saw that the game that released was in fact the beta, and that the beta wasn't an older playable build for testing the servers I knew I wouldn't enjoy the gameplay for my own reasons that I've stated elsewhere (Personally for me its how doctrines work and are implemented in design that totally sucks the fun out of the game for me, not balance)
So I already had nearly 60 hours in the base game proper, with the same balance that the game launched with, and built on that information with each consecutive balance patch, and that includes hotfixes. You make it out like I'm claiming to be some DoW3 messiah that will deliver unto you the Eden of RTS's, and that's so far removed from someone taking a critical eye and taking the time to not just look over the numbers, but to take a few hours after each balance update to properly test those changes. I know enough about experience that I didn't want to taint that data with personal feelings from how they feel in game against opponents, especially losses.
AngelofDeth
I've talked to one of DoW1 streamer, Astrohero. I asked him whether he will buy DoW3 when necron's are out since he loves necron so much. He said he'll surely try DoW3 if multiple races will be out. Currently he wasn't sure whether he should get the game or not because of STEAM REVIEWS while he said DoW3 LOOKS FINE to him and really wanted to try it. So I guess everything was because of steam reviews. Many are not confident to buy DoW3 and because of that it limits the chances for DoW3 to get new players.
Amoc
Really? That's your conclusion? Since ONE DoW1 streamer (I didn't even know those even existed) said the negative reviews gave him pause that means that EVERYTHING is because of steam reviews? Just to be sure...are you trolling?
Brichals
The steam reviews are incredible. Page after page of negative ranting. Anybody would think the game is an absolute mess when it's in fact the most polished DoW release yet. A large part of the community should hang their head in shame. The game doesn't deserve this, I am ashamed that I am part of this community. They did the same to DoW2 aswell which otherwise is one of the best RTS games in the last decade, killed by an immature playerbase.
Gorb
Please refrain from accusing other forum members of trolling.
The same goes for calling a large group of players "immature", @Brichals. We don't need these kinds of antagonistic language.
Moderator Post
Fr3quency
Welcome to 2017, when it is already shameful that people are dissapointed about how their beloved franchise "evolved" and voice their opinions. The current policial correct meta for this behavior is "aknowledging" that those people are somehow inferior and simply do not grasp the greatness of this game.... /irony off
Seriously you should simply come to terms that LOTS of people simply dislike the game for various reasons. Those are not "bots" (another meta term these days to call posters that have a different opinion), those are normal gamers like you and me. You dont need to act superior in any way because of that. I can understand that it is hard to find oneself on the side of a minority, its not a good feeling but you simply have to accept that the vast majority of the potential dow-playerbase simply does not agree with the assessment that the game is OK.
MyBossMyHero
Left a negative review because they game is way too much unfinished for 60euro.
Chriskovo
I have you beat I played Dune2 the first RTS ever :P
And this version of DOW is the most nonfun rts I have recently played.
Chriskovo
So by your own argument you are already saying that DOW3 is dead than? Since your modern competitive RTS playerbase has adhd'ed and abandoned the game already . I hear wait times are now up to around 30 mins for an auto match.
And you know since those old Soulstorm Compstop Warriors are still playing that game like 10 years later enough to total out higher than DOW3's current playerbase, maybe they should have catered to them instead?
I know logic isn't really pushed in the schools anymore when you can go for self righteous indignation or elitism. But hoping reality will sink into someone at Relic.
Maybe not but what the hell im an optimist. :P
Amoc
I imagine Relic has a better grasp of reality and the current situation than most of the game's defenders. It's easy for the game's fans to say the game is great and that it has a bright future following the current course, but Relic is a business and they're looking at the aggregated feedback, the sales and the tiny remaining player base and making some obvious conclusions.
Chriskovo
This guys has been playing rtss' since Warcraft1. That means he has played a lot of them over time. And yes once you get a baseline of experience in genre you can get a feel for the tempo and underlying mechanics of a game pretty ++heresy redacted++ fast. I was gonna preorder this just on the franchise's reputation alone but thank god I waited till the open beta. Cause you could tell it was going to be a shitshow just from playing in that weekend. Nobody listened at Relic apparnly because they turned into an echo chamber and this game was the result. It got rightly crucified by many of the old players and the new players they were trying to cater to already abandoned it. Its not looking good for this game or for Relic right now. I hope they can turn it around.
Brichals
I was playing Herzog Zwei (which looking back is actually a MOBA), Populous and Mega-Lo-Mania. Warcraft 1 is not the birth of RTS games although it certainly did set a mould. I was playing Dune 2 the other day on emulator.
I can only say that people are very matter-of-factly calling DoW3 a redactedshow and accusing Relic of abandoning a playerbase (I'm not even sure what playerbase that is, you can scroll up for my thoughts on that) when they have only played 6.7 hours: or in your case it seems, haven't even purchased the game.
BTW the Herzog Zwei reference just goes to show that RTS and MOBA have always been intimately linked.
Strangequark
Are you still flogging that hyperbolic dead horse?
Fenix404
same here bud dune 2 on DOS and everything in between, and this dawn of war is the MOST FUN RTS i have recently played. we played dawn of war 1 on LAN for many many years, and half of them hated dawn of war 2 just the same as people here hate dawn of war 3. some of them still hate 2. the franchise is used to doing things differently, evolving, changing, streamlining gameplay, and most of all, it's used to the hate.
if you guys don't like how it plays, that's fine. if you hate it so much, just go away. would you walk up to a public basketball court and start yelling that this version of basketball sucks and the field should be smaller and everyone should SLOW DOWN. people are ACTUALLY COMPLAINING about this being "competitive". they think that automatically can only mean e-sports overwatch kids and nothing else. you actually blamed people like me for ruining your "slow" gameplay, as if we "aren't thinking or having fun, just spamming mindlessly". as if RTS games haven't been designed this way since forever ago.
if you played dune 2 then you can understand that all RTS since its inception has been competitive BY NATURE. i harvest to build military units to kill your buildings. RTS. if i can do it faster than you, YOU LOSE. COMPETITION. IM NOT TRYING TO MINE OUT THE MAP AND THEN QUIT WITH NO CASUALTIES. IS CHESS A COMPETITIVE GAME? HOW CAN IT BE, IT ONLY HAS 6 UNIT TYPES AND 1 MAP! IS CHESS A FARMING GAME OR A PUZZLE GAME? IS CHESS A MOBA? WHAT ABOUT THE GAME 'GO'? THE ANCIENT STRATEGY GAME WITH 1 UNIT TYPE? DOESN'T SOUND LIKE A COMPETITIVE GAME IF IT ONLY HAS 1 UNIT!
if you want to take turns staring at armies auto-attacking each other, THERE'S TOTAL WAR FOR THAT. but guess what the objective is in total war? if you don't like the abilities, then you don't even like any RTS from the past 20 years. starcraft vanilla had psi-storm, ensnare, plague, irradiate, emp, nuke, defensive matrix, spawn broodlings... if you don't like the art style because it is "cartoony" (omg i still don't understand this one one bit), you must not have seen dawn of war 1's models, or warcraft 3. or older games workshop for that matter... how is this cartoony? because of the occlusion outlines? the camera height?
again, it's fine if you don't like it, but it has been a bandwagon of complete hatred for a pretty great video game that everyone expected something completely different out of. even i was skeptical going into beta, but i was sold on my 3rd 3v3. phenomenal action, more than anything i had done in the previous games, and with less players. there is so much misinformation and subjective opinion being presented as fact. anyone who says "MOBA elements" doesn't understand genres. there ARE NO MOBA ELEMENTS. NO SUCH THING. THE MOBA IS AN RTS WITH REDUCED UNIT CONTROL AND RPG ELEMENTS. WHEN YOU ADD RPG ELEMENTS TO AN RTS IT IS STILL AN RTS, SEE WARCRAFT 3. you could argue for "tower-defense elements" or "tug-of-war" elements, but those fall short as well, since RTS IS ALL OF THEM COMBINED WITH ARMY CONTROL. THOSE ARE THE CUSTOM GAMES, THEY WERE MADE BY PEOPLE THAT DON'T WANT TO PLAY RTS BUT WANT TO PLAY RTS.
stop saying "moba-like" or "moba feel" just because you only know how to play MOBAs. i can tell. you guys either only play mobas or have never ever seen one. this game plays NOTHING like a moba, anywhere, ever, even on the maps with "lanes". you should be glad there aren't any maps with "rivers", another "moba original element". can you see how silly the phrase "moba elements" sounds? they are ONLY RPG ELEMENTS OR RTS ELEMENTS BECAUSE A MOBA IS AN RTS/RPG HYBRID. THE MOBA IS THE CUSTOM GAME. THERE ARE NO MOBA HYBRIDS BECAUSE MOBA IS THE HYBRID.
just know if you say the game is MOBA, i don't take a single thing you say seriously. i don't consider your input valuable to any conversation we could have around the game. looking at a lot of you on here. pure unadulterated ignorance is being spread around this game, especially with all the likening to starcraft, LoL, and even DotA... just stop for a moment and think about what you are saying. i've seen them. "this is just a MOBA with base building" or "this is just a MOBA where you control your creeps"... "its too spammy like starcraft, i can't think"... THEN IT IS AN RTS BECAUSE IT HAS BUILDINGS AND ARMY CONTROL AND A LEARNING CURVE WHICH INVOLVES BEATING SPAM LIKE FIREBALLS IN FIGHTING GAMES. BLOCK, YOU SCRUBS. DAY ONE.
THE ONLY THING THE DEVELOPERS SAID THEY TOOK (THIS IS FROM ALL YOUR PRECIOUS ARTICLES AND INTERVIEWS TOO) IS CLARITY OF GAMEPLAY, AS IN PLASMA TRAIL ON THE GRENADE, AND VISIBLE TEMPLATES.
POWER CORE MODE IS FROM DAWN OF WAR 2. DIRECTLY. HOW ANYONE MISSES THIS IS BEYOND ME. HEROES WERE IN ALL GAMES AND STRONG ABILITIES WERE ALSO PRESENT. RUSH TACTICS WERE ALSO PRESENT IN BOTH GAMES AS WAS THIS "UNIT SPAM" EVERYONE IS SO IGNORANTLY COMPLAINING ABOUT SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW TO EVEN DO IT RIGHT MUCH LESS COUNTER IT, SHOWING YOUR KNOWLEDGE LEVEL.
hate the game all you want, but JUST LEAVE WE DON'T CARE THAT YOU AREN'T SKILLED ENOUGH TO BE PATIENT.
Freshcold
The game killed itself, the game sold around 250,000, it is now down to 0.2% of that number still playing. 4000 negative reviews has nothing to do with 99% of players abandoning the game.
It's a mediocre game, you can blame others if you want, but the simple fact is, the large majority simply just did not enjoy the game. The failings of this game are it's own, the community should not hang it's head in shame for simply not enjoying a mediocre game.
Even when it comes to reviews, if you look, a large portion of the negative reviews are people with 30-125 hours playing, with long reviews explaining with it is bad.
Most of the positive ones though, seem less of a review and more of an attack on "haters" which I always find stupid, people turn such a blind eye to things they are loyal to and can't accept that just maybe people didn't like the game, instead of "I liked it, everyone that didn't is just a hater out to bring this game down becuase they are haters!"
Martin
Thanks for posting this thread it reminded me to write a review.
I decided to keep my review brief and to the point I don't like overly long reviews. Many could write better reviews if they were more to the point like me, fx I could have also written this sentence as "Even though I am not a proffesional reviewer I do think you could learn from me by making your reviews more to the point also". You should not add a bunch of parentheses and extra information before the important point but after or omit it.
Martin
Making steam reviews is also not, not useful. That is because people do read your review and click button to say if they find it useful. You can see this by going to steam profile and clicking on reviews. Review I posted today was found useful by 3 out of 8 people. It is hard to say if it is due to the review being posititive, the gramma errors, or dissatisfaction with the review itself though.
SupremeSkill
You can post a positive review and that is fine, I've naturally done so, but this game has such a geek train around it that your positive review will be most likely downvoted. It's always the same in common forums and platforms like Steam, that there happens this uncritical mass thinking phenomenon, so called hive mind, lol.
Go post something negative about Witcher 3 and you are the devil itself. Post positive about DoW 3 and you are an insane heretic.
I still believe that most of the customers have a mind of their own and they will overlook the reviews if the gameplay videos, pictures and such information pleases them. In the end RTS games are often played with friends and if you happen to have one of those hate harversters in your play group, it's tough luck.
Let haters hate.
I actually happen to know a guy who paints those little Warhammer figures and has played a lot of DoW 2, but didn't even try DoW 3, because it's a MOBA game of course, but that is most likely because one or more of his gamer fellows are those so called die hard dow fans.
Martin
I swear there used to be a comment here saying I reminded them of someone named smelly Martin, with a smiley at the end. Why is this comment not here anymore? was it removed? don't remove bring it back; or you delete it yourself cause you are too shy to leave it up? don't be shy bring it back! #BringBackSmellyMartin
MaxwellsDaemon
I like you Martin- even of you do end up being smelly.
Gorb
If posts vanished, there is usually a reason for it. Sorry, I'll make a note next time
EDIT
And it goes without saying, but making snide remarks about moderation is a reason why posts vanish. Please post constructively and on-topic.
Moderator Post
Strangequark
Sorry just wanted to make some highlights.
appiah4
Why would I leave positive feedback about this game and mislead people into thinking it is actually good? Isn't that counter-productive to how Steam reviews are supposed to work?
MaxwellsDaemon
@appiah4
If you don't like it then yes, that would be dishonest.
However, since this thread was directed at those who do like the game and encouraging them to leave a review, I'm not entirely sure why you felt the need to make that comment?
Fr3quency
this franchise must really be at the most embarassing, sorry, lowest imaginable point ever, if "call to arms" threads like this are needed at all. I cant remember anything remotely embarassing in any other game in my over 20 year gaming career. The pure existence of such a thread is proof enough of how dead this game is but the naysayers still continue to say that "its too early to say". Lol what? Which kind of miracle are you waiting for? Necrons DLC that will permantenly increase the active playerbase by thousands? Keep dreaming.
I mean yes you can keep coming to this forum saying yourself: "I like this game and some others do, so it is good" but it wont change the ultimate fact, that the vast majority of the fanbase simply hates this game and therefore abandoned it within just 3 months. Thats gotta be one of the fastest deaths of a new game that I witnessed apart from Battleborn but in that case I actually feel sorry for it because it was a decent game which was just advertised wrongly and came out at the most unsuitable timeframe ever. Cannot say the same about dow3.
1 year ago the ultimate killer argument on this forum was "wait for release and see". Now it has turned to "its too early to say" and indirect arguments along the lines of "the critics are just too dumb to understand the glory of the game". In psychology terms I would call this behavior the 1st stage of grief and loss - being denial of the truth.
Martin
What kind of doom are you waiting for? It needs to be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyy more dead than this before game can not be played; content and updates are still coming out; at any time multiple people are streaming the game on twitch. More than 100 items on steam workshop. What kind of miracle would we even be waiting for? DLC? why would one even buy the vanilla game now if don't like it as is, not like DLC is going to be free, never was.
MaxwellsDaemon
@Fr3quency
I'm not sure what you're harking on about mate.
The game has a really low player base and wasn't received well by a great many fans.
No one's really debating that and that's also not what this thread is about.
I like the game as do approximately 1000 other players at least...I'm not trying to build a fanboy army or debate whether the game is a success or not....what I'm trying to do is encourage those that enjoy it to leave a positive(and honest) review. That may, in some small way, help improve the outlook of the game with regards to it's player pool.
Do me a favour and if you want to discuss the relative success/failure of the game go and start a separate thread or pitch into one of the many pre existing threads that have been hashing that discussion out over the past 2.5 months.
Amoc
To be fair, the number is significantly higher than that. You have around 40,000 people who've played the game in the last 2 weeks. Of those, over half played 1:14 or less (ouch) BUT the other half played enough to bring the overall average above 4 hours. So what can we conclude from that? Not that much...but there has to at LEAST be a few thousand people playing the game on the regular. The peak player numbers are what you're quoting, and that's the simplest and best relative comparison we have for player health. I just think it's important to understand what the numbers mean....
PrimaGoosa
The call to arms to get the hate snowball rolling for the game was happening leading up to release, and I wouldn't be surprised if there was a call somewhere to leave negative reviews on Steam to try to hurt the game.
I legitimately don't see what's wrong with trying to promote awareness of the Steam review situation and getting people involved. Even though it might not seem hugely influential, someone perusing Steam who is on the fence about it could very easily be swayed by the overall score, and the reviews themselves, without caring to put the time into figuring out if the negative reviews are even accurate (last I checked, many of them had many things objectively wrong, not just them saying they didn't like the game).
As a personal example, sometimes I just sift through Steam games, and one of the things I'll look at first after getting a summary of the game are the reviews. I always spot check both positive and negative reviews, just to see the flavor of both. Now for DoW 3, the negative reviews seem manic/frenzied, so I'd be personally skeptical, but I can definitely understand people seeing that as game baggage and not bothering.
Amoc
As a counter to that, I'm sure you also saw the quality of most of the positive reviews - which spend about as much time criticizing the negative reviews as they do actually saying anything worthwhile about the game.
Honestly when I buy a game I check Steam Reviews too, and just like you go through the positive and the negative. I do, however, tend to find the negative ones more useful, because they seem to more specifically qualify exactly what they don't like and why. This last bit wasn't a commentary on DoW III - just the Steam reviews in general.