Defending Against SM

Shurakan

How exactly are you intended to hold SM pushes on your objectives? Am I expected to abandon mine, stall there, while I push theirs? I ask because I've had several matches where the marine starts a push, I slowly try and hit and run, but when he finally reaches it he just drops a banner and clicks the obj. I try to push back, but masses of las cannons in bubble shields and the like stop my push cold and I can't get revenge damage done. Meanwhile I can't really hold my bubbles because I've got to kite SM melee and Banshees can't outmelee SM heroes. Even Jain Zar can't really out melee their heroes and late game both her and Banshees simply get plowed before they even reach melee.

Late game they walk into your base, and focus the obj and even ignoring my army I flat out can't kill his units in time. Units I send to stand in the banner evaporate before they can decap it in big battles. I honest to god have no idea about what I can do except play base race every time. Is that it? I've tried split attacks but they seem to need way less units to hold their bubble shields than I do. I tried split pushing with Jain Zar but he just sat Diomedes in the bubble with a single HB in the back and Jain Zar didn't last long enough for my Dark Reapers to break it and she had to go heal.'

And in a bunch of these matches I actually had most of the resource points, but he got plenty of money just from waiting till he had a big army and attack moving into my objectives. Should I just base race every time?

Dandalus

LOL! Hit and run isn't counter attacking. Hit and run is playing from beginning this way, denying points, crippling economy, snipping units of choice. You got l2p issues.

Shurakan

I never said it was? I was doing just what you said, the problem was defending my objectives when SM attack, and when I beat them back I tried counter pushing since the units were weakened, but every big push he'd take an objective even while ignored my units firing on his.

DivineEvil

Keep SM at their base as much as possible, i.e. harass them constantly and keep the map under your control. If they keep all of their forces in one place, attack other points. Rangers are perfect for this because they smash generators in moments, and enemies rarely place defenses on internal resource points and often throw their drop pods trying to weed you out. That's exactly what you want. Abuse Marine's lack of mobility and transportation.

On defense, put preference into Avengers over Reapers. Both infantry and Elites have normal armor, so their True damage and range doesn't really mean anything. Makes sure you have the Gate nearby to move Avengers around quickly, burst and throw grenades. Also, Turrets seem to dissuade them from prolonged combat pretty well.

Shurakan

Yeah, ok. If he's say, sitting on just one area of the map, but he decides he's gonna full push to the my shield gen on his side of the map. My problem comes when I try and defend something that can't move. Diomedes would easily smash the Avengers sitting on the bubble and then not only would I lose my gen but I'd also lose my army. Then I tried playing keep away with him, but since I couldn't put up the shield he just ignored my units and killed the gen. Am I supposed to fight him with Banshees? I guess they can hold the bubble better than the Avengers. My question is if I should even bother defending and just go all in myself on the other side. It always looks like I even if I defend my gen once or twice, I either lose too much tanking the melee and keeping the bubble up, or I forfeit the bubble and it goes down but at least I keep my army, but that resource boost he gets counters my map control and gives him his elites faster.

Would it be smarter for me to just have one or two guys stall while I take down his shield gen? Should I just sacrifice mine for his? I always feel like I lose out if I try and defend against drop pods and banners.

DivineEvil

Well, having a single squad of Banshees in the bubble can help, but not more, since they wont be able to fight him at the same time. They wont be able to tank him that long, but it will be long enough for your Avengers and Reapers to drive him away. Other than that, its a good practice to attack his squad earlier with Avengers or Rangers and not wait until he gets to the Gen, and even more so if it would force him to use his buff. That's early reaction is why Eldar should try to always use Rangers at least to keep the map under surveillance.

MaxwellsDaemon

For an undefended/ poorly defended gen 1-2× banshees + 1 Reaper will tear through it.

My Game plan against space marines is usually preventing them getting that strangle hold of lad devs+do I + banner and whatever else they have from getting to my gen.

The best way to do this is to force fights where your the aggressor and bait out the abilities. If you're SM opponent is allowed to accrue multiple global abilities (drop pods and banner) then the gen push is very difficult.

TLDR - hit the gen early, scout, run interference, try and avoid the fight happening at your shield gen unless you have a counter play planned.

RaspberryTurtle

Save your DA grenades for Heros once they hit the field, chain them one after the other to keep Diomedes on his ++heresy redacted++ and focus him down.

SupremeSkill

You need to have a scout on the map to see when he is going to push and a reaper squad inside or little behind the bubble. Reapers are invaluable for defending.

0riginal_z0M

Sometimes you have to sacrifice a point with Eldar because its so bad vs SM but keep in mind, all the enemy force is into that, basically leaving them open to you flying around the map with webways and inside falcons to attack other points and objectives. Space marine really can just click and run into you with flamers and ASM and its game over but you need to avoid that liek the plague.. Truth is an SM or ORk will always beat you head on, but there will be moments, very few but moments when you can get them, maybe late T2, if youve been very careful not to lose any squads or waste and power AND providing you have the firepower to then push and take out a turret prisms & wraithblades will be along soon. just keep your ranged units spread out and make sure you have a falcon+Shield & vyper using stun bombs in T2. When you attack something else you leave someone to decap then get back to hold a line, his map suddenly got a lot smaller.. mind games.. at this point hes probably going to run a whole army over another point which is when you take yours back and kill any troops he left behind quickly.

Eldar have a serious problem with pushing even if you win a battle but try to thin squads and NEVER risk losing any, essentially pick your battles carefully. If an SM player loses 2 marines from a squad he will retreat to recover, make sure in this moment you attack something else with the 20-30second window. Not an easy game at all but rewarding.