And all of these tanks are different.
That's asymmetry.
amd mow you made again an argument, why SM could have an rhino
He really didnt make any argument on why sm should have a rhino. They still shouldnt because it would just be a trukk on steroids and SM dont need mobile reinforcments like the other races do.
Would make them better to play with. And other factions should ofc get also something.
Yeah it would make SM even more powerful. Just cause 1 race doesnt have 1 thing doesnt mean they dont require it.
Then nerf them in the areas that are making them op. I would have no problems, ifI had to buy the drop pods in an orbital relais beacon
elites)
And again Starcraft2 units are much more agile and versatile, C&C units are much more reliable.
Actually only a select few units in SC 2.
Marines for example are versatile because of cost effeciency upgrades and medivacs. The rest follow the same kind of counter system like DoW 3.
SC 2 has more support units and spell casters though than DoW 3.
And all of these tanks are different.
That's asymmetry.
amd mow you made again an argument, why SM could have an rhino
He really didnt make any argument on why sm should have a rhino. They still shouldnt because it would just be a trukk on steroids and SM dont need mobile reinforcments like the other races do.
Would make them better to play with. And other factions should ofc get also something.
Yeah it would make SM even more powerful. Just cause 1 race doesnt have 1 thing doesnt mean they dont require it.
Then nerf them in the areas that are making them op. I would have no problems, ifI had to buy the drop pods in an orbital relais beacon
So, in other words, reduce faction differentiation?
And all of these tanks are different.
That's asymmetry.
amd mow you made again an argument, why SM could have an rhino
He really didnt make any argument on why sm should have a rhino. They still shouldnt because it would just be a trukk on steroids and SM dont need mobile reinforcments like the other races do.
Would make them better to play with. And other factions should ofc get also something.
Yeah it would make SM even more powerful. Just cause 1 race doesnt have 1 thing doesnt mean they dont require it.
Then nerf them in the areas that are making them op. I would have no problems, ifI had to buy the drop pods in an orbital relais beacon
So, in other words, reduce faction differentiation?
The priority must be to give them enough units and mechanics first, than you can think about how to make them more unique.
The best C&Cs, voted by the community, were RA2, amd Generals. C&C3 was not even close to being the "best C&C", because the ones I just mentioned split the community almost 50-50.
I see, people continue to say that units die too fast. Are you joking? Or maybe you are so slow that can not get the speed of the game? Look at the sc2 - units die in SECONDS. Does this an issue of players? no. the game is still popular but became boring because nothing changes among 20years.
I would say now each played game is very-very long, I would say too much long, so long that people get boring and upset of that endless something.
With that 40min matches it is not a play of minds or tactics it is the game of who gets tired firts. It is boring, people.
Don't pretend that you agree to play 40 min to kill and respawn the same units again and again. It is stupid. No real contest. The long chess matches are interesting but not rts.
PS: and these talkings about balance, eldar are op, orcs too sucks, sm are op - it has no sence till the fundament of any RTS - economics will work fine.
Relics, even new content in the way of new facion will work for 1-2 week. Till people get boring of this shitty gameplay. Your recent experiment with the content patch tells that. Just watch the steam log.
Fix it and people get back. Just try to think as mid-age players.
@Diogen84 said:
I see, people continue to say that units die too fast. Are you joking? Or maybe you are so slow that can not get the speed of the game? Look at the sc2 - units die in SECONDS. Does this an issue of players? no. the game is still popular but became boring because nothing changes among 20years.
I would say now each played game is very-very long, I would say too much long, so long that people get boring and upset of that endless something.
With that 40min matches it is not a play of minds or tactics it is the game of who gets tired firts. It is boring, people.
Don't pretend that you agree to play 40 min to kill and respawn the same units again and again. It is stupid. No real contest. The long chess matches are interesting but not rts.
PS: and these talkings about balance, eldar are op, orcs too sucks, sm are op - it has no sence till the fundament of any RTS - economics will work fine.
Relics, even new content in the way of new facion will work for 1-2 week. Till people get boring of this shitty gameplay. Your recent experiment with the content patch tells that. Just watch the steam log.
Fix it and people get back. Just try to think as mid-age players.
Somehow all recent RTS just don't get the formula right,
I mean why else do people still play AoE, DoW, CoH, SC2 and even old C&Cs.
If some units die:
In Starcraft2/ Age of Empires/ older C&Cs I would instant buy more units and relocate where I need them, can't happen here.
In DoW1 and COH I would instant fix squads and relocate where I need them, can't happen here.
@charlando said:
I like DOW3
I DO NOT enjoy MOBAs one bit.
Contradiction?
same here!
135 ingame right now http://steamcharts.com/app/285190
It's not about your own personal preferences and what you like, but about what people like.
@Bigamo said:
Having vehicles trampling infantry always have been a ++heresy redacted++ C&C mechanic imo.
Indeed not perfect, but it was C&Cs identity over 12 years.
That's what people did love the game for and did come back again and again.
old C&C games (1995-2007) PvP Meta was tanks as sword and troopers as shield
once resources in your base were depleted harvester had to go outside,
so you did more and more start to fight your enemy, even if you were defensive player
All factions had similar tanks, that can crush/drive over instant kill troopers
and were stronger in encounter vs other vehicles
air force was in C&C extremely nerfed, did need to refill after airstrikes
Red Alert 3 attempt to improve the formula with modern day designs,
was kind of revelation (like by any other game), RTS people didn't like the new trends.
and here is why:
-Look, we RTS people are Adults, we don't need cartoon Graphics
I know you would like to inspire Kids for games, but they also don't like cartoon Graphics.
- casual issues:
the base build did vs Japan faction require to use early game trooper rush mechanics, most C&C players never did use them this way.
And if you didn't, than Japan faction did you attack with way more units than you have.
Japan faction could put easy anywhere buildings, while other factions needed more time to make and move their expansions, this way Japan faction, especially on bigger maps did claim faster more resources than other factions, but still units did cost same
A casual cant rush or defeat a faction that does have more units than him
even if you didn't play with Japan, still the Air units were too fast and maps were too small to prepare vs rush
In C&C air force was never really important, yes you had some iconic Air units,
but it was really easy to deal with them, even scrin were long defeated by tank rush till they would use their airforce
suddenly you had everywhere this fast strong attacking units, the bar for skill did rise too high even for average RTS players
and small maps is self explaining why casuals cant use them
- average issues:
use abilities from each unit did require too much APM for average C&C customer
so you want to execute the mechanics, but the enemy is simply faster with it
the new unit combination, weak in terms of hit points,
did feel bad all the time by play vs faster people, you might even have bring more units, but he does faster active the abilities so you loose anyway
-yes the Starcraft players can handle them, but they have Starcraft
no matter what you do, they will always look at your product as inferior and don't even care its exist.
APM doesn't improve fast, you need like some years , so how are they supposed to use the game ? They cant and if you cant use the game, you don't buy it.
- professional issues:
real balance issues, what ever that might be
even worse, if each combat is too easy to win, because people cant handle the mechanics, you get bored to win
and there are later no people to play, because this game Ra3 like DoW3 wasn't designed for RTS customer, how are you supposed to play a game, where are no people, because its not playable for them.
@charlando said:
I like DOW3
I DO NOT enjoy MOBAs one bit.
Contradiction?
same here!
135 ingame right now http://steamcharts.com/app/285190
It's not about your own personal preferences and what you like, but about what people like.
@Bigamo said:
Having vehicles trampling infantry always have been a ++heresy redacted++ C&C mechanic imo.
Indeed not perfect, but it was C&Cs identity over 12 years.
That's what people did love the game for and did come back again and again.
old C&C games (1995-2007) PvP Meta was tanks as sword and troopers as shield
once resources in your base were depleted harvester had to go outside,
so you did more and more start to fight your enemy, even if you were defensive player
All factions had similar tanks, that can crush/drive over instant kill troopers
and were stronger in encounter vs other vehicles
air force was in C&C extremely nerfed, did need to refill after airstrikes
Red Alert 3 attempt to improve the formula with modern day designs,
was kind of revelation (like by any other game), RTS people didn't like the new trends.
and here is why:
-Look, we RTS people are Adults, we don't need cartoon Graphics
I know you would like to inspire Kids for games, but they also don't like cartoon Graphics.
**
casual issues: **
-the base build did vs Japan faction require to use early game trooper rush mechanics, most C&C players never did use them this way.
And if you didn't, than Japan faction did you attack with way more units than you have.
-Japan faction could put easy anywhere buildings, while other factions needed more time to make and move their expansions, this way Japan faction, especially on bigger maps did claim faster more resources than other factions, but still units did cost same
A casual cant rush or defeat a faction that does have more units than him
even if you didn't play with Japan, still the Air units were too fast and maps were too small to prepare vs rush
In C&C air force was never really important, yes you had some iconic Air units,
but it was really easy to deal with them, even scrin were long defeated by tank rush till they would use their airforce
suddenly you had everywhere this fast strong attacking units, the bar for skill did rise too high even for average RTS players
and small maps is self explaining why casuals cant use them
average issues:
-use abilities from each unit did require too much APM for average C&C customer
so you want to execute the mechanics, but the enemy is simply faster with it
the new unit combination, weak in terms of hit points,
did feel bad all the time by play vs faster people, you might even have bring more units, but he does faster active the abilities so you loose anyway
yes the Starcraft players can handle them, but they have Starcraft
no matter what you do, they will always look at your product as inferior and don't even care its exist.
APM doesn't improve fast, you need like some years , so how are they supposed to use the game ? They cant and if you cant use the game, you don't buy it.
professional issues:
-real balance issues, what ever that might be
-even worse, if each combat is too easy to win, because people cant handle the mechanics, you get bored to win
-and there are later no people to play, because this game Ra3 like DoW3 wasn't designed for RTS customer, how are you supposed to play a game, where are no people, because its not playable for them.
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Comments
CANNED_F3TUS
elites)
Actually only a select few units in SC 2.
Marines for example are versatile because of cost effeciency upgrades and medivacs. The rest follow the same kind of counter system like DoW 3.
SC 2 has more support units and spell casters though than DoW 3.
TuskaDemonKilla
Oh, Tiberium Wars. Glorious best CnC.
"Mammoth Tank. Absolute superiority".
charlando
So, in other words, reduce faction differentiation?
StarSauron
The priority must be to give them enough units and mechanics first, than you can think about how to make them more unique.
jonoliveira12
The best C&Cs, voted by the community, were RA2, amd Generals. C&C3 was not even close to being the "best C&C", because the ones I just mentioned split the community almost 50-50.
Diogen84
I see, people continue to say that units die too fast. Are you joking? Or maybe you are so slow that can not get the speed of the game? Look at the sc2 - units die in SECONDS. Does this an issue of players? no. the game is still popular but became boring because nothing changes among 20years.
I would say now each played game is very-very long, I would say too much long, so long that people get boring and upset of that endless something.
With that 40min matches it is not a play of minds or tactics it is the game of who gets tired firts. It is boring, people.
Don't pretend that you agree to play 40 min to kill and respawn the same units again and again. It is stupid. No real contest. The long chess matches are interesting but not rts.
PS: and these talkings about balance, eldar are op, orcs too sucks, sm are op - it has no sence till the fundament of any RTS - economics will work fine.
Relics, even new content in the way of new facion will work for 1-2 week. Till people get boring of this shitty gameplay. Your recent experiment with the content patch tells that. Just watch the steam log.
Fix it and people get back. Just try to think as mid-age players.
StarSauron
Somehow all recent RTS just don't get the formula right,
I mean why else do people still play AoE, DoW, CoH, SC2 and even old C&Cs.
If some units die:
In Starcraft2/ Age of Empires/ older C&Cs I would instant buy more units and relocate where I need them, can't happen here.
In DoW1 and COH I would instant fix squads and relocate where I need them, can't happen here.
StarSauron
135 ingame right now
http://steamcharts.com/app/285190
It's not about your own personal preferences and what you like, but about what people like.
Indeed not perfect, but it was C&Cs identity over 12 years.
That's what people did love the game for and did come back again and again.
old C&C games (1995-2007) PvP Meta was tanks as sword and troopers as shield
once resources in your base were depleted harvester had to go outside,
so you did more and more start to fight your enemy, even if you were defensive player
All factions had similar tanks, that can crush/drive over instant kill troopers
and were stronger in encounter vs other vehicles
air force was in C&C extremely nerfed, did need to refill after airstrikes
Red Alert 3 attempt to improve the formula with modern day designs,
was kind of revelation (like by any other game), RTS people didn't like the new trends.
and here is why:
-Look, we RTS people are Adults, we don't need cartoon Graphics
I know you would like to inspire Kids for games, but they also don't like cartoon Graphics.
- casual issues:
the base build did vs Japan faction require to use early game trooper rush mechanics, most C&C players never did use them this way.
And if you didn't, than Japan faction did you attack with way more units than you have.
Japan faction could put easy anywhere buildings, while other factions needed more time to make and move their expansions, this way Japan faction, especially on bigger maps did claim faster more resources than other factions, but still units did cost same
A casual cant rush or defeat a faction that does have more units than him
even if you didn't play with Japan, still the Air units were too fast and maps were too small to prepare vs rush
In C&C air force was never really important, yes you had some iconic Air units,
but it was really easy to deal with them, even scrin were long defeated by tank rush till they would use their airforce
suddenly you had everywhere this fast strong attacking units, the bar for skill did rise too high even for average RTS players
and small maps is self explaining why casuals cant use them
- average issues:
use abilities from each unit did require too much APM for average C&C customer
so you want to execute the mechanics, but the enemy is simply faster with it
the new unit combination, weak in terms of hit points,
did feel bad all the time by play vs faster people, you might even have bring more units, but he does faster active the abilities so you loose anyway
-yes the Starcraft players can handle them, but they have Starcraft
no matter what you do, they will always look at your product as inferior and don't even care its exist.
APM doesn't improve fast, you need like some years , so how are they supposed to use the game ? They cant and if you cant use the game, you don't buy it.
- professional issues:
StarSauron
135 ingame right now
http://steamcharts.com/app/285190
It's not about your own personal preferences and what you like, but about what people like.
Indeed not perfect, but it was C&Cs identity over 12 years.
That's what people did love the game for and did come back again and again.
old C&C games (1995-2007) PvP Meta was tanks as sword and troopers as shield
once resources in your base were depleted harvester had to go outside,
so you did more and more start to fight your enemy, even if you were defensive player
All factions had similar tanks, that can crush/drive over instant kill troopers
and were stronger in encounter vs other vehicles
air force was in C&C extremely nerfed, did need to refill after airstrikes
Red Alert 3 attempt to improve the formula with modern day designs,
was kind of revelation (like by any other game), RTS people didn't like the new trends.
and here is why:
-Look, we RTS people are Adults, we don't need cartoon Graphics
I know you would like to inspire Kids for games, but they also don't like cartoon Graphics.
**
casual issues: **
-the base build did vs Japan faction require to use early game trooper rush mechanics, most C&C players never did use them this way.
And if you didn't, than Japan faction did you attack with way more units than you have.
-Japan faction could put easy anywhere buildings, while other factions needed more time to make and move their expansions, this way Japan faction, especially on bigger maps did claim faster more resources than other factions, but still units did cost same
A casual cant rush or defeat a faction that does have more units than him
In C&C air force was never really important, yes you had some iconic Air units,
but it was really easy to deal with them, even scrin were long defeated by tank rush till they would use their airforce
suddenly you had everywhere this fast strong attacking units, the bar for skill did rise too high even for average RTS players
and small maps is self explaining why casuals cant use them
average issues:
-use abilities from each unit did require too much APM for average C&C customer
so you want to execute the mechanics, but the enemy is simply faster with it
the new unit combination, weak in terms of hit points,
did feel bad all the time by play vs faster people, you might even have bring more units, but he does faster active the abilities so you loose anyway
yes the Starcraft players can handle them, but they have Starcraft
no matter what you do, they will always look at your product as inferior and don't even care its exist.
APM doesn't improve fast, you need like some years , so how are they supposed to use the game ? They cant and if you cant use the game, you don't buy it.
professional issues:
-real balance issues, what ever that might be
-even worse, if each combat is too easy to win, because people cant handle the mechanics, you get bored to win
-and there are later no people to play, because this game Ra3 like DoW3 wasn't designed for RTS customer, how are you supposed to play a game, where are no people, because its not playable for them.