@r_benb Hey does relic do tours of the studio in Vancouver? I live about an hour or so East of Vancouver and was wondering if you guys did do tours and also if you guys were hiring might be hiring within the next 3-4 months?
@Wikkyd said: @r_benb Hey does relic do tours of the studio in Vancouver? I live about an hour or so East of Vancouver and was wondering if you guys did do tours and also if you guys were hiring might be hiring within the next 3-4 months?
We don't do tours, but you can catch some of our open positions here: www.relic.com/#careers
Use the Love Our Games option to apply anyway even if you don't see the ideal role.
@Ragarnoy said: @r_benb
what led you to not use the features that made your previous games so enjoyable like covers, buildings or morale ? I know you wanted to innovate but you surely used COH to improve DoW 2, and DoW 2 to improve CoH2, so I don't get why you'd decide that those features are not good anymore.
The changes you mentioned largely came down to accommodating the larger scale of armies and battle. The intention was to hit a target of vast armies that you couldn't reasonably line up behind directional cover, as one example. Another factor was making player agency a priority - i.e. not losing control of your units at a critical moment due to a morale drop or a sync kill. It was never about whether those features were good or bad, but always about what made sense for gameplay.
Please note: I know these features are beloved by many of you to varying degrees. I'm explaining the iteration that went into DOW3, not trying to restart the debate.
I can't share much regarding your second questions besides confirming that as with all of our games, the team reduced in size following its release as planned.
I feel compelled to speak up in favor of the trade-offs that were made to accommodate the increased scale of DOW3. Ease of control and responsiveness are areas where DOW3 really shines. I went back to DOW2 recently and even at that scale, the pathfinding had a lot of trouble with all of the cover objects and destructible terrain. It's pretty shocking just how much time can pass between giving a command and a unit responding. That, combined with the abundance of active abilities, makes for a game that can be a chore to control. DOW3, even at max pop, feels like conducting a symphony of destruction in comparison. Pathfinding issues are rare, hotkeys are easy to use and abilities just work. If there is a future for DOW, I hope Relic iterates on these design decisions.
Hey @r_benb
If you guys want input from an old Dow 1 and 2 player that stopped playing after about a month... (and no I havent read 27 pages so, I am sorry if I repeat stuff )
Balance wasn't an ultimate issue, we all know it will be broken from start and that will always fix itself after a few patches.
For me it was the following:
Moba strength Heroes/unit balance. (also a balance issue, but one that should have been fixed faster)
Play to get advantage... seriously? the maps made for milking skulls would have shown that such a ideá was ... really not smart. A game where veteran players ALSO get a more (and better) options will see a decrease in its pvp player base.
very bad cover mechanic, no immersion, I can understand that directional cover maybe would be hard to fix even if that was your thing so to speak compared to other RTS. But why remove buildings? These were your thing.
Annihilation mode instead of killing a weird node (immersion breaking), though a very small issue.
No observer mode... Seriously? in 2018 that will make any pvp RTS doomed to failure. We humans are social people and that obs mechanic mean a lot, also from a ladder anxiety standpoint...check some SC2 discussions about that. Sometimes people just want to chill and watch games ingame.
Bad information at start, no road map or plan was presented, in decent time. This made the issues more frustrating.
Still you made a visually a great game with good pathing. But the above mentioned issues made me uninstall the game. It is hard to say what tipped me over to disliking the game to stop playing, I'd say it became a synergy effect from all the issues. As I understand it balance and game modes is somewhat fixed (always a work in progress)
Had you committed and added a small DLC with a perhaps fourth race and obs mode I would probably have bought it. Also perhaps added buildings or a changed cover, at least the style. For example change that weird orb into a building instead (that can be assaulted in melee). That orb thingie really broke the immersion for me.
I and many of my old Dow 2 friends I talked to was on same page. These changes, if our consensus, is of more general nature would have massively increased the player base (since no one of my friends are playing Dow 3 atm and many bought the game). Bigger player base and active community will of course give more sales.
I'd say the game is still salvageable. From a economic standpoint the above issues should not be to costly from a developer standpoint compared to the resources spent so far.
Take it however you want and good luck in the future.
/Bambi
@Bambilambi said:
Hey @r_benb
If you guys want input from an old Dow 1 and 2 player that stopped playing after about a month... (and no I havent read 27 pages so, I am sorry if I repeat stuff )
Balance wasn't an ultimate issue, we all know it will be broken from start and that will always fix itself after a few patches.
For me it was the following:
Moba strength Heroes/unit balance. (also a balance issue, but one that should have been fixed faster)
Play to get advantage... seriously? the maps made for milking skulls would have shown that such a ideá was ... really not smart. A game where veteran players ALSO get a more (and better) options will see a decrease in its pvp player base.
very bad cover mechanic, no immersion, I can understand that directional cover maybe would be hard to fix even if that was your thing so to speak compared to other RTS. But why remove buildings? These were your thing.
Annihilation mode instead of killing a weird node (immersion breaking), though a very small issue.
No observer mode... Seriously? in 2018 that will make any pvp RTS doomed to failure. We humans are social people and that obs mechanic mean a lot, also from a ladder anxiety standpoint...check some SC2 discussions about that. Sometimes people just want to chill and watch games ingame.
Bad information at start, no road map or plan was presented, in decent time. This made the issues more frustrating.
Still you made a visually a great game with good pathing. But the above mentioned issues made me uninstall the game. It is hard to say what tipped me over to disliking the game to stop playing, I'd say it became a synergy effect from all the issues. As I understand it balance and game modes is somewhat fixed (always a work in progress)
Had you committed and added a small DLC with a perhaps fourth race and obs mode I would probably have bought it. Also perhaps added buildings or a changed cover, at least the style. For example change that weird orb into a building instead (that can be assaulted in melee). That orb thingie really broke the immersion for me.
I and many of my old Dow 2 friends I talked to was on same page. These changes, if our consensus, is of more general nature would have massively increased the player base (since no one of my friends are playing Dow 3 atm and many bought the game). Bigger player base and active community will of course give more sales.
I'd say the game is still salvageable. From a economic standpoint the above issues should not be to costly from a developer standpoint compared to the resources spent so far.
Take it however you want and good luck in the future.
/Bambi
Iirc they might bring some small content in the future, but things like observer mode and races wouldn't count - I think they estimated about 6 months of work would be needed for a race(?) Further it wouldn't include reworks of the core mechanics, so we probably wouldn't see much difference to Elites or cover. Small content to Relic would mean things like skins (and I imagine possibly maps or some slight balance tweaks?)
I've been thinking about the whole cancellation thing since it was announced. Really tough to comment on the economics of it all without more info, but it does all seem a little strange.
Rainbow six Siege is a really interesting example of a game that had a range of issues at launch, but they stuck with it and developed it over time. Ended up with a player base that grew significantly, in stages, after launch. With DOW3 it seems like work was underway post-launch, but not in a way that has supported the economics. I'dd have been happy to pay a couple of £s (...but probably not more than that) for the new elites, maybe another bit for a map pack, etc. I'm not saying that people would just throw money at it, but if the comms are right to explain to people the strategy behind it and explain that it's steady development then people might have got behind it. Full blown DLC too expensive? How about just release a new race for use in multiplayer and charge £5? Doesn't all have to be big release stuff.
Hey @r_benb how hard would be for you to put in the rhino for the space Marines as they lack a transport at the minute and a mobile reinforcement unit as the orks and the elder have one.
Therefore their faction can only reinforce near their buildings or if they have took the doctrine that allow listening posts to reinforce. This is one of the biggest disadvantages of the space Marines as they only reinforce these two ways for their units. Whilst the orks can reinforce by their buildings, their transports through use of an upgrade and have three elites that have a reinforcement ability and have a doctrine that allow their Waaagh towers to reinforce their units. This means the orks can reinforce up to 4 different ways for their units. Lastly the elder can reinforce from their buildings and transports with an upgrade their web way gates and this means they can reinforce three different ways for their units.
Another thing if possible would be for a new upgrade to be put in the Arsenal which is storm bolters that are pintle mounted on rhino if put in to the game, the whirlwind, the predator devastator and annihilator as the whirlwind cannot defend itself at the moment and the rhino if put in.
@r_benb Ok, so I want to know: you guys teased the Necrons pretty hard even before the game's release, and especially the video at the end of the campaign. Had you guys even started work on the Necrons or other new races and what percentage were they completed when the plug was pulled?
@Wardragon_100 said:
Hey @r_benb how hard would be for you to put in the rhino for the space Marines as they lack a transport at the minute and a mobile reinforcement unit as the orks and the elder have one.
Therefore their faction can only reinforce near their buildings or if they have took the doctrine that allow listening posts to reinforce. This is one of the biggest disadvantages of the space Marines as they only reinforce these two ways for their units. Whilst the orks can reinforce by their buildings, their transports through use of an upgrade and have three elites that have a reinforcement ability and have a doctrine that allow their Waaagh towers to reinforce their units. This means the orks can reinforce up to 4 different ways for their units. Lastly the elder can reinforce from their buildings and transports with an upgrade their web way gates and this means they can reinforce three different ways for their units.
Another thing if possible would be for a new upgrade to be put in the Arsenal which is storm bolters that are pintle mounted on rhino if put in to the game, the whirlwind, the predator devastator and annihilator as the whirlwind cannot defend itself at the moment and the rhino if put in.
Well, any new unit would require art (skin or model), animation and effects (abilities), and likely some audio work in addition to the design time to figure out the right functionality. It's not especially easy. The Space Marines are meant to leverage their Drop Pods as a way of mobile reinforcement. There's also a doctrine that lets you reinforce at Listening Posts.
Edit: forgot the UI work to bring a new unit into the tech tree, programming to cue everything up in game, etc. etc. etc. You get the idea...one new unit takes a full, multidisciplinary team.
@Gork said: @r_benb Ok, so I want to know: you guys teased the Necrons pretty hard even before the game's release, and especially the video at the end of the campaign. Had you guys even started work on the Necrons or other new races and what percentage were they completed when the plug was pulled?
Work had only just started and was not very far along before we shifted focus to some of the other things I've mentioned in this thread. So, we were at the start of the journey looking at the way forward and deciding whether that path made the most sense, rather than 3/4 of the way to the finish line and deciding to turn back.
Thank you for responding to my post @r_benb and would be possible to put in terminators for the space Marines that can be built from the stronghold that instead of having assault cannons have storm bolters and no cyclone missile launcher. They only can be built when get to tier three and have less health than the elite terminator squad whilst having a build limit of one. If not possible to do this. Is it possible to get the skin for the terminator squad makes them look like death watch terminators.
Also would be possible to have the Scouts buildable from the stronghold and if not can you say why. Also another note can you put in the squad sizes of all infantry units in the in game Codex as we don't have that information at the minute and more information about what upkeep is in the Codex as well
@Wardragon_100 said:
Also would be possible to have the Scouts buildable from the stronghold and if not can you say why. Also another note can you put in the squad sizes of all infantry units in the in game Codex as we don't have that information at the minute and more information about what upkeep is in the Codex as well
I appreciate the suggestions but as per the announcement these requests aren't in scope for us.
In your relic update post you say can do smaller content additions as a possibility what are these smaller content additions, what can you give us as a example so we know can your limits, that's all.
@Wardragon_100 said:
In your relic update post you say can do smaller content additions as a possibility what are these smaller content additions, what can you give us as a example so we know can your limits, that's all.
We've kept this thread going for a few weeks now, and we've covered a lot of ground. I want to say a big thanks to all of you for taking part, for asking good questions, and for giving us the opportunity to explain what we can. It's helped me get a sense of what's on your mind as the dust settles, and bring those ideas back into the studio. It's also been good vibes getting to share some things that we haven't been able to share with you before.
Lately, it seems like we've tackled all of the major points and I'm running low on new things to say. Plus, I don't think it's that helpful to have this undying Q&A thread with almost 30 pages of comments that no one in their right mind is going to read through before tossing another question into the mix. So, today it closes.
I'll keep popping in to check out the other threads and weigh in when I'm able. If you think it's something I can speak to, feel free to tag me and I'll get to it as soon as I can provided I can shine some light on the situation. Otherwise, be patient with each other, celebrate the fan base, and keep fighting the good fight!
Menu
Comments
Wikkyd
@r_benb Hey does relic do tours of the studio in Vancouver? I live about an hour or so East of Vancouver and was wondering if you guys did do tours and also if you guys were hiring might be hiring within the next 3-4 months?
r_benb
We don't do tours, but you can catch some of our open positions here: www.relic.com/#careers
Use the Love Our Games option to apply anyway even if you don't see the ideal role.
TokyoDream
I feel compelled to speak up in favor of the trade-offs that were made to accommodate the increased scale of DOW3. Ease of control and responsiveness are areas where DOW3 really shines. I went back to DOW2 recently and even at that scale, the pathfinding had a lot of trouble with all of the cover objects and destructible terrain. It's pretty shocking just how much time can pass between giving a command and a unit responding. That, combined with the abundance of active abilities, makes for a game that can be a chore to control. DOW3, even at max pop, feels like conducting a symphony of destruction in comparison. Pathfinding issues are rare, hotkeys are easy to use and abilities just work. If there is a future for DOW, I hope Relic iterates on these design decisions.
Bambilambi
Hey @r_benb
)
If you guys want input from an old Dow 1 and 2 player that stopped playing after about a month... (and no I havent read 27 pages so, I am sorry if I repeat stuff
Balance wasn't an ultimate issue, we all know it will be broken from start and that will always fix itself after a few patches.
For me it was the following:
Still you made a visually a great game with good pathing. But the above mentioned issues made me uninstall the game. It is hard to say what tipped me over to disliking the game to stop playing, I'd say it became a synergy effect from all the issues. As I understand it balance and game modes is somewhat fixed (always a work in progress)
Had you committed and added a small DLC with a perhaps fourth race and obs mode I would probably have bought it. Also perhaps added buildings or a changed cover, at least the style. For example change that weird orb into a building instead (that can be assaulted in melee). That orb thingie really broke the immersion for me.
I and many of my old Dow 2 friends I talked to was on same page. These changes, if our consensus, is of more general nature would have massively increased the player base (since no one of my friends are playing Dow 3 atm and many bought the game). Bigger player base and active community will of course give more sales.
I'd say the game is still salvageable. From a economic standpoint the above issues should not be to costly from a developer standpoint compared to the resources spent so far.
Take it however you want and good luck in the future.
/Bambi
Socite
Iirc they might bring some small content in the future, but things like observer mode and races wouldn't count - I think they estimated about 6 months of work would be needed for a race(?) Further it wouldn't include reworks of the core mechanics, so we probably wouldn't see much difference to Elites or cover. Small content to Relic would mean things like skins (and I imagine possibly maps or some slight balance tweaks?)
KFG256
I've been thinking about the whole cancellation thing since it was announced. Really tough to comment on the economics of it all without more info, but it does all seem a little strange.
Rainbow six Siege is a really interesting example of a game that had a range of issues at launch, but they stuck with it and developed it over time. Ended up with a player base that grew significantly, in stages, after launch. With DOW3 it seems like work was underway post-launch, but not in a way that has supported the economics. I'dd have been happy to pay a couple of £s (...but probably not more than that) for the new elites, maybe another bit for a map pack, etc. I'm not saying that people would just throw money at it, but if the comms are right to explain to people the strategy behind it and explain that it's steady development then people might have got behind it. Full blown DLC too expensive? How about just release a new race for use in multiplayer and charge £5? Doesn't all have to be big release stuff.
Wardragon_100
Hey @r_benb how hard would be for you to put in the rhino for the space Marines as they lack a transport at the minute and a mobile reinforcement unit as the orks and the elder have one.
Therefore their faction can only reinforce near their buildings or if they have took the doctrine that allow listening posts to reinforce. This is one of the biggest disadvantages of the space Marines as they only reinforce these two ways for their units. Whilst the orks can reinforce by their buildings, their transports through use of an upgrade and have three elites that have a reinforcement ability and have a doctrine that allow their Waaagh towers to reinforce their units. This means the orks can reinforce up to 4 different ways for their units. Lastly the elder can reinforce from their buildings and transports with an upgrade their web way gates and this means they can reinforce three different ways for their units.
Another thing if possible would be for a new upgrade to be put in the Arsenal which is storm bolters that are pintle mounted on rhino if put in to the game, the whirlwind, the predator devastator and annihilator as the whirlwind cannot defend itself at the moment and the rhino if put in.
Gork
@r_benb Ok, so I want to know: you guys teased the Necrons pretty hard even before the game's release, and especially the video at the end of the campaign. Had you guys even started work on the Necrons or other new races and what percentage were they completed when the plug was pulled?
r_benb
Well, any new unit would require art (skin or model), animation and effects (abilities), and likely some audio work in addition to the design time to figure out the right functionality. It's not especially easy. The Space Marines are meant to leverage their Drop Pods as a way of mobile reinforcement. There's also a doctrine that lets you reinforce at Listening Posts.
Edit: forgot the UI work to bring a new unit into the tech tree, programming to cue everything up in game, etc. etc. etc. You get the idea...one new unit takes a full, multidisciplinary team.
r_benb
Work had only just started and was not very far along before we shifted focus to some of the other things I've mentioned in this thread. So, we were at the start of the journey looking at the way forward and deciding whether that path made the most sense, rather than 3/4 of the way to the finish line and deciding to turn back.
Wardragon_100
Thank you for responding to my post @r_benb and would be possible to put in terminators for the space Marines that can be built from the stronghold that instead of having assault cannons have storm bolters and no cyclone missile launcher. They only can be built when get to tier three and have less health than the elite terminator squad whilst having a build limit of one. If not possible to do this. Is it possible to get the skin for the terminator squad makes them look like death watch terminators.
Wardragon_100
Also would be possible to have the Scouts buildable from the stronghold and if not can you say why. Also another note can you put in the squad sizes of all infantry units in the in game Codex as we don't have that information at the minute and more information about what upkeep is in the Codex as well
r_benb
I appreciate the suggestions but as per the announcement these requests aren't in scope for us.
Wardragon_100
In your relic update post you say can do smaller content additions as a possibility what are these smaller content additions, what can you give us as a example so we know can your limits, that's all.
Martin
he already kinda answered this here:
Wardragon_100
other smaller content additions that are not cosmetics is i want to know
ReubenUK
I'm guessing that they can only spare the time of Artists and not Programmers.
RaspberryTurtle
@r_benb , is there any concept art you guys can release to show what Necrons in DoW3 would have been like?
0riginal_z0M
OH GOSH* THATS A VERY VERY GOOD IDEA !!!!!
r_benb
Nothing that can be released, I'm afraid!
r_benb
Hey everyone,
We've kept this thread going for a few weeks now, and we've covered a lot of ground. I want to say a big thanks to all of you for taking part, for asking good questions, and for giving us the opportunity to explain what we can. It's helped me get a sense of what's on your mind as the dust settles, and bring those ideas back into the studio. It's also been good vibes getting to share some things that we haven't been able to share with you before.
Lately, it seems like we've tackled all of the major points and I'm running low on new things to say. Plus, I don't think it's that helpful to have this undying Q&A thread with almost 30 pages of comments that no one in their right mind is going to read through before tossing another question into the mix. So, today it closes.
I'll keep popping in to check out the other threads and weigh in when I'm able. If you think it's something I can speak to, feel free to tag me and I'll get to it as soon as I can provided I can shine some light on the situation. Otherwise, be patient with each other, celebrate the fan base, and keep fighting the good fight!