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What would your DoW3 expansion look like?
Ifitmovesnukeit
It seems pretty clear that Relic wants the dust to settle before even considering Dawn of War’s future. That’s fair, I think they need some time to take stock, re-align along the path of greater community engagement they’re planning, and come back to Dawn of War with fresh eyes.
However, for those expecting or even hoping that DoW3’s death means a radically different, “better” DoW4 will come next, well, I struggle to see how that pitch could be made to anyone with the power to greenlight it. A full-fledged sequel is time-consuming, expensive and risky, and there’s no guarantee it’ll be any better received the next time around. Why would Relic stick their necks out a second time? And it’s no good saying “Relic just needs to make the Dawn of War we all wanted!” - leaving aside the obvious, that’s a pretty piss-poor design document.
So what’s lower-risk? Well, a DoW3 expansion, at least, comes with a base to build upon. And it’s also something we know Relic had every intention of doing. By the way, those of you who think Dawn of War 3 was absolutely terrible in every aspect and had no redeeming features whatsoever, you might as well step out now to save yourselves some time. :P
Okay, so who’s left? The people who think everything dies far too easily? Cool, that’s health and damage tweaks. Heroes too powerful? Same again. Don’t like power core? Fair enough, let’s make sure Annihilation with turrets becomes the standard gametype. Maps are laney? Sheesh, you know what, I won’t even argue that, because the solution is easy!
I guess what I’m hoping to claw towards here is that there’s nothing so fundamentally broken about the game that an expansion couldn’t resolve it - look at WA; Relic has form when it comes to making bold changes to the meta in expansion titles.
I accept that some things aren’t likely to change - sync kills or DoW1-style cover aren’t going to be added. How/if they should be brought back is a discussion for a DoW4 thread.
But nevertheless, I think a standalone DoW3 expansion that focuses on the player retention aspect - otherwise known as the fun aspect :P - could bring people back to the title.
So I hope to see a bit of constructive, but realistic, brainstorming here, for how you’d revive DoW3’s fortunes if you were in charge. I’ll try to justify everything I suggest, but I’ve already rambled on quite a lot so...
Essentials:
Meta tweaks and more maps
Outlined above
Continuation of DoW3’s campaignYes we can argue the mission design blew no-one’s socks off and the lore was slapped around a bit as is traditional with DoW - but really, who doesn’t want to know what happens next? Which brings me onto:
NecronsNot much to say here really. They were teased, people want them [citation needed].
ChaosA second faction you say? Madness! Well, I have my suspicions some were holding out on DoW3 until their favourite race got added. Chaos is popular, and adding two “evil” factions at the same time hasn’t been done before in a DoW game, so there’s that too. However, and this is heresy, but… I’d be prepared to see Tau go in instead, if that was more popular. Also Tau and Necrons is a nice Dark Crusade 2.0 nostalgia trip! You know you want it.
Co-opI think it’s a mistake to expect people to go from the campaign to head-to-head matches as part of your game’s longevity plan. Now I’ve loved RTS nearly all my life, but I find online pretty stressful. Making the campaign co-op in DoW2 seems to have been a popular decision, so maybe that needs to come back. However, that then hinges on the campaign alone, which brings me on to:
More singleplayer / co-op contentIf you want the people who don’t like multiplayer to keep playing your game, you either hope the campaign + skirmish compstomping can hold it up, which DoW3 seems to have proven it can’t, or you provide more SP content.
My wild idea? Anyone remember the Generals challenges from C&C: Zero Hour? You’d pick your faction and then fight a series of Generals obsessed with a particular style of warfare, on scripted maps sort of like DC’s Stronghold maps. I think ripping this off would have some great benefits - more SP scenarios without the need for a narrative to tie it all together, as well as a chance for the fluff fans to see more of the universe they love (Say on one map you fight an Imperial Fists commander in a ridiculously fortified base who’s shamelessly ripped off all the defensive doctrines, on another a Space Wolf Wolf Lord who throws endless waves of howling blood claws, sorry, assault marines sans jumppacks, at you, or an Iron Hands Iron Captain who drowns you in vehicles, a Iyanden warlock who throws ALL the wraith-stuff at you, you get the idea). It’s also another co-op opportunity, and a welcome return for the enemy captain throwing race-specific slurs at you. Oh, and if popular, easily expandible with further scenarios.
Expanded army painterAn opportunity for a clear improvement on the previous titles, and a nice gesture for the hobbyists - more colourable areas, an option for a different palette for elite units, and of course, custom badges and banners!
Stretch Goal: Race-specific structures in Power Core modeI didn’t think the gameplay of PC was terrible, but the fluff fan in me found the weird structures belonging to no known race, well, irksome. Replacing them with structures looking like they belong to the races of the team owning them would cure a lot of my issues with it. It’s a stretch goal because I’m not sure it’s worth doing all that if everyone prefers annihilation anyway.
Okay, I’ve written far too much already, and besides, 2 factions, a story campaign and a whole pile of standalone scenarios is by itself pretty ambitious for an expansion. What would you focus on?
Comments
CANNED_F3TUS
This would be cool but i just dont think we are gonna see anything in,regards to DoW. IP is dead.
Ololo111
You don't even need "Heroes" for your EP to being to spent - you can turn these very Elites into free sets of heavy weapons, deployable from arsenal (just like USF and BF in CoH2), like 2 flamethrowers and 1 plasmagun for Guardsmen squads for 2 EP's. Also, veteranacy. There can be the whole tree capped with EP-investment levels. Not those +- 15% to accuracy like the most upgrades in CoH, but something like strafing run capacity of T3's XV ## guy from DoW1 being added to his Vet1 jumpack on Vet2.
You can turn these EP into everything - DoW2 resourse granted on kill, CP's of CoH, CP's of CnC's lol and can shape them into the vast set of mechanics RTS had. The very same glyphs from DoW1 to the buildable Necron heroes could be them (with proper property, lol, like the ability to summon some free units for 6-7 EP's, and turning one into Harbringer for 9-10 EP's).
Unique faction feature can greately add to this, like IG getting themselves morale and ability to retreat on FRP's - whenever forced by enemy or choosen deliberally. Tyranids can have Chain of Command paired with advanced roster of buildings, like multiple turrets types, spawners and those very command posts that will determine lag in command proportional to distance between them and units. If you think it's DoTa, u are n00bs - it's Castle Strike.. With Elites projecting different auras adding a DoTa element... and being a command post themselves making possible the same amount of micro as the other races have.
Seriously, I was against RA3:Uprising to have MP mode, because original RA3's one reached it's limit. I didn't want any new races past OF ones in CoH1, because it took a lot of effort to achieve that hand-picked balance it has (it can still handle 2 races more with some great balancing at stage).
DoW3 got an ideal framework to accomodate more than 8 different races like nothing as it is right now. It can collect a lot of featuresfrom another RTS'es within one game and actually implement those requested from late 00'es (like the darned chain of command, rawwr) and, of course, develop even more of it's own.
Or could have. What a waste.
By the way, good example with Generals. Though SP floks are my worst enemies once again, I think, they would be happy with that. Could have been happy.
Socite
Personally, if by some miracle they do work on a dow3 expansion, I do have a few interests:
DC/SS Style Campaign: a lot of people ask for it I know, but not only does that give more reason to do it, but furthermore it helps with the maps issue - they can hit two birds by one stone, making perhaps a couple of dozen maps to double as both campaign and MP. It also reduces the chance of people dropping the game after a few hours due to issues like poor plot or mission design.
Rework some animations: the animations in this game got a lot of hate, and in some places I think different animations would be good. For example, change Gabriel's jump to either not include a flip, looking some what heroic and heavy perhaps making use of a small jump pack built into the back of his armour, or a teleport with a short load time and a target symbol similar to the standard and drop pods. They could also change the terminator's spin-up-and-slam to simply be a slam, similar to what we have in DoW2 if I remember correctly.
2 factions: you've covered that pretty well. It would take time but it would definitely increase the appeal of the game greatly.
Balance tweaks: again, covered quite well above.
Improved AI: let's face it, once you get used to the aggression of the AI and adopt an aggressive play style of your own they're really easy to beat. I feel they could do with harder AI settings and improved AI in general. I've found that, on custom maps at least, AI focuses resources for 5 mins then focuses the objective ignoring most of the map and map control. In a game with a heavily map-control based economy this maps it really easy for players to get a lot of resources. It could be a case of the AI needs some kind of pathfinding, but I've not found anything of that sort in the World Builder.
Perhaps rework the elite system: some are opposed to the EP system. Maybe remove EP rewards from PC structures
More map environments: I'd be particularly interested in seeing cities, forests/jungles and deserts.
Stretch goal - Sync kills: Unlikely but I can dream, Harold!
LuckyShitBird
Sound good, but the skirmish matches in DC and SS weren't really appealing to me. I enjoyed the HQ mission. But there wasn't a real story behind it all. For my part I like the story driven missions from DoW 3. The twist wasn't mind blowing, but I don't expect that from this franchise anyway.
The most important part for myself would be an expansion to the current MP part of the game. SP or Coop campaign would be a secondary aspect.
If relic was about to test, if another race appeals to a larger audience, they could release necrons / chaos / ... for multiplayer first and if that succeeds they can add a SP campaign to it. However, this idea might not be perfect, but it reduces the development time and costs.
Ifitmovesnukeit
CANNED_F3TUS: You may well be right. This would be a big, big 180 from Relic if they did it. I just worry that "DoW is dead" might well continue its journey into self-fulfilling prophecy if the community doesn't start constructively looking towards the future. If/when Relic returns to DoW with their new improved community engagement, I'd like us to have formulated some coherent suggestions.
Ololo111: Elite points as kinda-sorta like the ammo resource from CoH? Interesting thought. I like the implication that you get a choice between Elite call-ins or souping up your grunts, or something in between - and it might be of interest to those who don't like the Elites being such a dominant aspect of their force.
Socite: I know a lot of people, including myself, loved the metamap campaign. But I also liked the focused campaign that Chaos Rising brought us. I don't envy Relic the task of coming up with a way to please both camps. DoW3's campaign made an honest effort at least to give all the factions some missions whilst keeping the story focus, but that wasn't to everyone's tastes either. Tough one.
Oh, and if tweaking Gabe's animation stops that blasted forced meme, then sure, I'm all for it. Seems like a pretty easy way for Relic to defuse one of the loudest, if most irrelevant, criticisms.
LuckyShitBird (christ does anyone have a normal-sounding name on this forum): I think multiplayer race packs are a sensible suggestion for a lower-risk 'testing the water' with further content, assuming the economics work out. I'd wager new races take the lion's share of any expansion's budget. My reservation would be that I think more races alone won't keep people playing if nothing more fundamental changes. Once you get used to a new faction, well, it's still essentially the same game with the same gameplay options.
I'd still totally buy any 40k faction Relic cares to add, though. Yes, probably even Tau.
CANNED_F3TUS
Lmao. Normal names are not allowed.
But really i am a fetus in a Can.
TokyoDream
Spirit
1: 1-2 new factions
2: a campaign similar to dow1 dcs campaign and with a coop function
3: more maps
4: new line units and elites
5: squad leaders ( this is a big wish of mine and i absolutely love this feature in dow1 )
6: more ingame upgrades or a change to how the doctrin system works. Maybe to make all doctrins available ingame or a only a few that you can chose before the game starts and then ingame to need to unlock the doctrins with req or power. Its a but silly how the doctrin system works at the moment cause you cannot see what doctrins the enemy will use before the game starts and doctrins kind of restrict your gameplay cause preferably you should go for the units which get boosted by the doctrins that you chose. Also i prefer ingame upgrades anyway, it keeps the player more busy and just feels more fun and skill full than simply chose doctrins before the game starts and then to have a skill boost for your units all game long and for free.
7: the last stand
8: a overhaul of the power core mode. Shield gens should have more hp or at least the shield gen bubble ( maybe at least in later game phases cause backdooring always can make a quick end to a shield gen in early and later game phases.... ). Also shield generators shouldnt grand as much as they do, they shouldnt reward you with a elite point cause everything can snowball quickly afterwards due to this. You should only be rewarded with req/power to compensate the losses that you may have received from attacking a shield gen. Turrets should be more accurate to actually be able to defend itself cause 1 worker and 2 shadow spectres can be enough to bring a turret down in no time....
8: balance tweaks, i know this is the most complicated part cause every single individual has a different opinion about balance, but why not start to tweak the most overpowered units and abilitys? Thats not so complicated to do for the devs. They can watch what people mostly complain about ( like rangers/snipers or scrap turrets ) and then adjust those things. Also they can watch tournament games to see how the balance state is and what could be changed or what needs to be changed.
Spirit
1: 1-2 new factions
2: a campaign similar to dow1 dcs campaign and with a coop function
3: more maps
4: new line units and elites
5: squad leaders ( this is a big wish of mine and i absolutely love this feature in dow1 )
6: more ingame upgrades or a change to how the doctrin system works. Maybe to make all doctrins available ingame or a only a few that you can chose before the game starts and then ingame to need to unlock the doctrins with req or power. Its a but silly how the doctrin system works at the moment cause you cannot see what doctrins the enemy will use before the game starts and doctrins kind of restrict your gameplay cause preferably you should go for the units which get boosted by the doctrins that you chose. Also i prefer ingame upgrades anyway, it keeps the player more busy and just feels more fun and skill full than simply chose doctrins before the game starts and then to have a skill boost for your units all game long and for free.
7: the last stand
8: a overhaul of the power core mode. Shield gens should have more hp or at least the shield gen bubble ( maybe at least in later game phases cause backdooring always can make a quick end to a shield gen in early and later game phases.... ). Also shield generators shouldnt grand as much as they do, they shouldnt reward you with a elite point cause everything can snowball quickly afterwards due to this. You should only be rewarded with req/power to compensate the losses that you may have received from attacking a shield gen. Turrets should be more accurate to actually be able to defend itself cause 1 worker and 2 shadow spectres can be enough to bring a turret down in no time....
8: balance tweaks, i know this is the most complicated part cause every single individual has a different opinion about balance, but why not start to tweak the most overpowered units and abilitys? Thats not so complicated to do for the devs. They can watch what people mostly complain about ( like rangers/snipers or scrap turrets ) and then adjust those things. Also they can watch tournament games to see how the balance state is and what could be changed or what needs to be changed.
9: a beta so people can test the new race and everything and so the devs have a chance to readjust things before the actual release of an addon.
10: army painter like in dow1.
11: t4 research to unlock titans? would maybe be cool. Maybe they could just make it so you can chose the current regular elites which cost 2-8 points and titans to be available for everyone without to be in need to chose them before the game starts but only be allowed to chose 1 of the available titans per faction at a time and to be in need to unlock titans first with a t4 research and then maybe to need to buy them for a high price? I dont know if anyone likes this idea but i simply would like to see a t4 research again^^
DFrag
Hello there, new to posting in forums xD I'm gonna post something from my perspective so here it goes.
BALANCE: First of course it needs a balance tweaks from most people mentioned before.
CAMPAIGN: As a blood raven fan since DOW1, for me this new story was quite devastating for the blood ravens, I would have rather end the blood ravens story when Gabriel had became the chapter master during the DOW2: Retribution. Either make the campaign into Dark crusade like others mentioned or maybe rework the blood ravens or any other chapters campaign with a better level design and gameplay in the campaign.
IMPROVING: Like others mentioned
A) More maps and improve the UI i guess, maybe you can bring back all the maps from previous Dawn of War and remaster that map into DOW3 and tweak it for Power Core mode. Maybe.
B ) New factions, I know maybe its hard to make a different gameplay for a new faction for example necrons, I can't imagine how you are going to make the economy without using Requsition just like Dark Crusade that necrons uses power to buy stuff while the req point are used to speed up builds of the nercons.
C) Yes new Elites and Line Units coming from spirit. Maybe I can talk about something with and anyone is free to give feedback for this, For elites, I was thinking there will be alot of elites to choose from if there was more than 15 elites in each factions after all expansion are out. So maybe, if instead of picking 3 elites before a games starts. What if you make 3 Sets of 3 Elites to bring into the game so for example if the player wants an early aggressive, he can pick SET A for Killteam, Gabriel and Diomedes. Ofcourse the players can custom what elites to bring in their SETS. This is similar to COH 1 that you had to choose the 3 Doctrine Sets. I think this is good because sometimes when you need the presence doctrine... people regret not bringing that elite in for example like solaria whirlwind inferno thingy for late game or something.
D) Progression: I was thinking maybe you can make progressions to the line units just like dow2, for example all doctrines are in the game. But the player has to level up their units to gain that ability for example tireless in level 2. MAYBE the doctrines can split into BOTH as upgrades in armory like nades or leveling up units to unlock the doctrine like fire on the move or tireless. This makes players not to suicide their armies everytime and keep their armies alive. It makes the line units IMPORTANT than a meat shield.
I think that's it xD ok thank you
DFrag
Hello there, new to posting in forums xD I'm gonna post something from my perspective so here it goes.
BALANCE: First of course it needs a balance tweaks from most people mentioned before.
CAMPAIGN: As a blood raven fan since DOW1, for me this new story was quite devastating for the blood ravens, I would have rather end the blood ravens story when Gabriel had became the chapter master during the DOW2: Retribution. Either make the campaign into Dark crusade like others mentioned or maybe rework the blood ravens or any other chapters campaign with a better level design and gameplay in the campaign.
IMPROVING: Like others mentioned
A) More maps and improve the UI i guess, maybe you can bring back all the maps from previous Dawn of War and remaster that map into DOW3 and tweak it for Power Core mode. Maybe.
C) Yes new Elites and Line Units coming from spirit. Maybe I can talk about something with and anyone is free to give feedback for this, For elites, I was thinking there will be alot of elites to choose from if there was more than 15 elites in each factions after all expansion are out. So maybe, if instead of picking 3 elites before a games starts. What if you make 3 Sets of 3 Elites to bring into the game so for example if the player wants an early aggressive, he can pick SET A for Killteam, Gabriel and Diomedes. Ofcourse the players can custom what elites to bring in their SETS. This is similar to COH 1 that you had to choose the 3 Doctrine Sets. I think this is good because sometimes when you need the presence doctrine... people regret not bringing that elite in for example like solaria whirlwind inferno thingy for late game or something.
D) Progression: I was thinking maybe you can make progressions to the line units just like dow2, for example all doctrines are in the game. But the player has to level up their units to gain that ability for example tireless in level 2. MAYBE the doctrines can split into BOTH as upgrades in armory like nades or leveling up units to unlock the doctrine like fire on the move or tireless. This makes players not to suicide their armies everytime and keep their armies alive. It makes the line units IMPORTANT than a meat shield.
I think that's it xD ok thank you
DFrag
Hello there, new to posting in forums xD I'm gonna post something from my perspective so here it goes.
BALANCE: First of course it needs a balance tweaks from most people mentioned before.
CAMPAIGN: As a blood raven fan since DOW1, for me this new story was quite devastating for the blood ravens, I would have rather end the blood ravens story when Gabriel had became the chapter master during the DOW2: Retribution. Either make the campaign into Dark crusade like others mentioned or maybe rework the blood ravens or any other chapters campaign with a better level design and gameplay in the campaign.
IMPROVING: Like others mentioned
A) More maps and improve the UI i guess, maybe you can bring back all the maps from previous Dawn of War and remaster that map into DOW3 and tweak it for Power Core mode. Maybe.
C) Yes new Elites and Line Units coming from spirit. Maybe I can talk about something with and anyone is free to give feedback for this, For elites, I was thinking there will be alot of elites to choose from if there was more than 15 elites in each factions after all expansion are out. So maybe, if instead of picking 3 elites before a games starts. What if you make 3 Sets of 3 Elites to bring into the game so for example if the player wants an early aggressive, he can pick SET A for Killteam, Gabriel and Diomedes. Ofcourse the players can custom what elites to bring in their SETS. This is similar to COH 1 that you had to choose the 3 Doctrine Sets. I think this is good because sometimes when you need the presence doctrine... people regret not bringing that elite in for example like solaria whirlwind inferno thingy for late game or something.
D) Progression: I was thinking maybe you can make progressions to the line units just like dow2, for example all doctrines are in the game. But the player has to level up their units to gain that ability for example tireless in level 2. MAYBE the doctrines can split into BOTH as upgrades in armory like nades or leveling up units to unlock the doctrine like fire on the move or tireless. This makes players not to suicide their armies everytime and keep their armies alive. It makes the line units IMPORTANT than a meat shield.
That is all ehehe
Socite
A couple of points mentioned since my last comment I agree with:
Free For All: I'd really like to see this personally, its something I've wanted in DoW3 for a while though it slipped my mind before. It would need different map designs though, not to mention economy would be an issue.
Progression: I'd certainly be interested in seeing line units visibly change as you level up your army, it was something I loved about DoW2. It truly shows your playtime, transforming your army to really stand out. An obvious example would be things like helmets for ork slugga and shoota boys etc.
TheWise
If I was charged with making it - pretty close to what I'm trying to do in my mods.
1. Codex-accurate loadouts for squads (including upgrades), Codex-accurate unit rosters for races.
2. Squad leaders - with their own sets of upgrades.
3. Normal upgrade system for Orksez, leaving the loot scrap system the only function - acquiring resources.
4. Upgrade as such, in term, must be available only in certain radius from buildings or transport vehicles.
Space Marines:
Pretty much like they are in my Closer to Codices mod with some additions:
1, Rhino or Razorback, or both - as reinforcement and upgrade points.
2. Sergeants for all squads with proper upgrades as per Codex.
3. All 6 kinds of Devastators - Heavy Bolter, Missile Launcher, Plasma Cannon, Lascannon, Multi-Melta, Grav Cannon with Grav Amp.
4. All special - Plasmagun, Meltagun, Flamer, Grav Gun - and heavy - Heavy Bolter, Missile Launcher, Plasma Cannon, Lascannon, Multi-Melta, Grav Cannon with Grav Amp - upgrades for Tactical Marines.
5. Shotguns, Sniper Rifles, Heavy Bolters and Missile Launcher as upgrades for Scouts.
6. Assault Leap as a Passive ability for Assault Marines along with all Codex upgrades - Flamers, Plasma Pistols, Eviscerator and so on.
7. At least one more kind of Tarantula turret - a Lascannon one, yet better - also multi-Melta one.
8. Apothecary and Techmarine with Servitors at least as Elites (which they, in fact, are as per Codex).
9. Full Codex customization for all vehicles - Razorback, Dreadnoughts, Land Speeders.
Eldar:
1. Guardians with support weapons on grav platforms.
2. Storm Guardians.
3. Warlocks for Guardians and Exarchs for Aspect Waarriors - with their own upgrade systems as per Codex.
4. All kinds of Aspect warriors - available in Warrior Portal via respective unlocks.
5. All Phenix Lords, available as soon as their Aspect is unlocked.
6. Wave Serpent and Falcon as two different vehicles.
7. Full Codex customization of all vehicles.
8. War Walkers and Wraithlord as buildable units.
Orksez:
1. Normal upgrade system. Functions of looting shall be resource acquisition and - maybe - picking up the enemy weapon upgrades, pretty similar to how it happens in CoH2 (this would be a good unique trait for Orksez).
2. Big Shootas and Rokkit Launchaz as upgrades for Boyz
3. Burna Boyz - to the Dakka Hut.
4. Squad Boss Nobz and Nobz as separate squad with full customization (both melee and ranged weapons).
5. Ork Kommandoz as a normal infantry squad (in fact - stealthy Shoota Boyz).
6. Flash Gits
7. Warbuggies, Wartrakks, Skorchaz as light vehicles.
8. Rokkit Launcha as an upgrade for Deffkoptaz.
9. Looted Rhino and Looted Tank.
10. Kill Krusha/Kill Bursta/Kill Blasta tanks.
11. Stormboyz as normal, line unit.
12. Meks and Painboyz.
Amoc
There's no guarantees for any game. The question, therefore, is what's a better investment?
1) A moderate investment expanding on a game that the vast majority of the target audience didn't like?
or
2) A bigger investment in a brand new project, following the lessons learned in the previous release?
Common sense would suggest that you don't throw good money after bad. That's why Relic is walking away from DoW III. It was a failed investment and almost certainly lost money. It also didn't fail because of content. If that were the case, Relic would just make more content and everything would be fine, right?
Ifitmovesnukeit
If you'd like to start your own more ambitious DoW4 wishlist thread, then be my guest - I'd be delighted to contribute. Please, however, refrain from dragging mine off topic.
Socite
While your argument is valid, the point of the thread is to discuss what we would like to see in any potential DoW3 expansion, not the probability of there being said expansion.
Hyrican
While I agree on most of what you say I think an expansion at the right moment wouldn't have been the worst idea despite reception. Many Complaints went along the line of the game not having an enjoyable single player experience and/or not enough factions ... in addition I believe the long silence on Relics part about future plans for the game did it's part in more and more players leaving ... who wants to invest time and money into a game that is in an unsatisfactory state while it's uncertain if this state ever changes ? The announcement of a big expansion with new singleplayer content and new factions might have kept quite a few players at bay.
Now as you said it wouldn't have fixed a lot the fundamental problems with the game and it would very likley still be the worst received of the 3 DoW games, but it might have salvaged the game into a more acceptable state. Additionally ... pretty much completely dropping the game without any notable attempt to improve it, damaged their reputation and possibly killed of one of their biggest franchises for good (if nothing else it made it a lot harder for future iterations).
Back on Topic: I would like to see a more fleshed out version of the Dark Crusade or Soulstorm Metamap campaign (maybe with elements from the DoW 2/Chaos Rising/Retribution campaign) and a lot more unit and army customization.
I made a rather lengthy !! post on that topic a while ago ... https://community.dawnofwar.com/discussion/12909/metamap#latest Here's the link for everyone interested.
Amoc
The complaints for lack of content or races just don't hold up as reasons for the game's failure. They just don't. To get the game to a healthy state, adding Chaos or Necrons would have had to multiply the player base and there's no reasonable argument to suggest that it would have.
The impact on Relic's reputation will be minimal for abandoning the game. There weren't enough people that still cared about DoW III to actually matter. The overwhelming majority of the damage to their reputation was done when the game released and disappointed.
Spirit
Not another discussion about this.... we have so many threads about this...
Can we all please stay on topic now?
Ifitmovesnukeit
Okay it's hardly a massive sample size, but I'm surprised at the FFA suggestions nevertheless! What's the appeal?
Come to think of it, an upgrade to proper 4v4 support would be nice too. Once DoW1 hit 7 factions, 3v3 was never going to be enough, so it was great to have the option to fit everyone on at once.
Plenty of varied maps is also a great suggestion. 40k is an entire galaxy's worth of environments, after all.
Robce
Apart from what is usually expected in expansions I have something to say about the doctrine and elite loadout system.
How current doctrine and elite loadout system works pretty much encourages everyone to pick the 3 most OP elites and doctrines and ignore everything else. It kills variety and balance and creates very boring meta.
My idea would be to change the doctrine and elite loadout to subfactions like in RA2 and CNC3 Kane's Wrath or commanders in COH2.
The point is to bundle several features together into one subfaction so you can't have all the best goods at once. You get to choose the bundles, but you can't hand pick items in it.
Every subfaction has a defining OP feature(unique global abilities, elites, line units, etc) and several not so OP but interesting ones and even some drawbacks that other subfactions don't have to balance itself out. To make an example, take the Blood Angels, they can maybe drink blood from the downed enemies and have some buff out of doing so, yet at the same time Red Thirst and Black Rage will be passive debuffs for them.
You have your strength and weakness bonded together.
If done right, hopefully tactical variety is encouraged and interesting gameplay is achieved at the same time.
40K is mighty rich of subfactions. Space Marines alone have 9 loyal legions and numerous chapters each has their own strengths and flaws.
You can even have subfaction specific skins bundled with them like play certain subfactions enough time to unlock them for use. Give players incentives to play each one of them.
I wonder if anyone finds it remotely interesting.
Socite
Ben recently said in the Q&A that they considered 4v4 pre and post launch but decided against it particularly for performance reasons. Its a shame, because it's annoying not being able to compstomp 4v4 community maps since the AI don't work in the 4th slots. ;-;
Gorb
Please remember to keep on-topic, and especially respect the thread creator's wishes. We have enough active threads to discuss any number of tangents without turning this thread into a copy of those.
Moderator Post
0riginal_z0M
I mean ++heresy redacted++, would it be too far fetched to say the SP stayed as it was with an expansion into Necrons, then a separate game more for SP/co-op IN the style of SS/DC conquer regions.
And then ++heresy redacted++.. adding a CO-OP Last stand mode as well....
This is basic basic stuff.. Sometimes gave devs need to put in to get out uno.. (in fact every time) if you want a 25K player base, dont release 1/5 of a game and wonder why you have 1/5 of a player base then shut down... LAMEAF
Just to sumarise..
My expansion would be (basic stuff)
-Campaign extension into Necron awakening.
-Necrons released.
-Chaos and IG teased for next expansion.
-Last Stand. (basic stuff)
-SP&Co-op Campaign in DC/SS style conquer regions owned by Necrons.
-Make Automatch competitive with no teams vs randoms (basic stuff)
-Fix player profiles,so you can look at sometimes stats and be proud of your own, as in, W/L, automatch 1v1,2v2 & 3v3 score (basic stuff)
-Observer mode! (basic stuff)
You know.. its only the biggest and best RTS game in the history of mankind, not like its worth it or anything..
RaspberryTurtle
-Campaign: a DC/DoW2 styled campaign, Travel sector to sector in your Strike Cruiser fighting over control of strategic sectors on planets.
-Necrons Released
-Observer Mode added.
-Army Painter now supports different Pattern types.
Ifitmovesnukeit
Heh. That's probably pretty darn close to what Relic actually had planned. Good ideas all.
Edit: The word I had to replace with "darn" is censored? Reeeallllyyyy?
Draconix
Well, the only thing that I would like in expansion for DoW or even any interesting to me RTS game overall is of course more races. But I understand that Relic abandoned Dow3. Still, I liked this game overall.
But who knows, if we get Dow4 in future. If so, I would like to in storyline continue where it ended in Dow3 and even include all three races (Space Marines, Orks and Eldar) but with a addition of Necrons, so Dow3 could still have own role in franchise storyline as a "bridge" between Retribution and Dow4. Dreams, but would be very nice.