Would you have played a heavily revamped DoW 3 which was more in line with the earlier DoW games?

jackattack

If Relic had, back then, heavily revamped DoW 3 to bring it more in line with the earlier DoW games, would you have continued to play it?

Like, a massive overhaul of the game.

SykA

I play the game as it is right now. But if it more in line with DoW2 (rpg campaign, more customization options) but keep the engine and the larger scale...sure.

jackattack

@SykA said:
I play the game as it is right now. But if it more in line with DoW2 (rpg campaign, more customization options) but keep the engine and the larger scale...sure.

What about with DoW 1?

jackattack

I hope this thread gets more replies or it might make DoW 3 players seem very hypocritical.

killaabab

@jackattack said:
I hope this thread gets more replies or it might make DoW 3 players seem very hypocritical.

why would they seem hypocritical?

Decepticats

@jackattack nobody is really reading or posting on the forums anymore because Relic is done supporting the game. I am 100% confident revamping the game to be like DoW1 wouldn't have made a difference. What people didn't like about DoW3 is that it is hard to learn and get good at and Relic was slow to communicate and deploy balance patches for big issues early on.

I played DoW3 every day until recently when I got tired of spending 10 min in queue every night to not get a match. If Relic started doing balance or bug fix patches I'd start playing again immediately. DoW3 is good as is. Just needs support to keep people playing.

EDIT: People just told themselves they were mad it wasn't like DoW1 or DoW2 or "not a real DoW game" to sooth their fragile egos. Reality is, it's an awesome game that has everything that made those games fun and more. One of the frequent complaints is "the factions are all the same" but the 3 factions in DoW3 are more different than any of the factions from each other in any of the previous games. Just demonstrates detractors weren't really being fair.

killaabab

@Decepticats said:
What people didn't like about DoW3 is that it is hard to learn and get good at and Relic was slow to communicate and deploy balance patches for big issues early on.

umm, I think the issue is more complex than that.

jackattack

@killaabab said:

@jackattack said:
I hope this thread gets more replies or it might make DoW 3 players seem very hypocritical.

why would they seem hypocritical?

because if they wanna criticize DoW 1 fans for not accepting 3, they have to hold themselves to similar standards.

jackattack

@Decepticats said:
What people didn't like about DoW3 is that it is hard to learn and get good at and Relic was slow to communicate and deploy balance patches for big issues early on.

EDIT: People just told themselves they were mad it wasn't like DoW1 or DoW2 or "not a real DoW game" to sooth their fragile egos. Reality is, it's an awesome game that has everything that made those games fun and more. One of the frequent complaints is "the factions are all the same" but the 3 factions in DoW3 are more different than any of the factions from each other in any of the previous games. Just demonstrates detractors weren't really being fair.

I have to respectfully disagree with all that.

But anyway, I assume you're fine with a revamp?

Do you think the majority of DoW 3 players would've been fine with a revamp?

Draconix

Revamp might be nice, on condition that won't remove but rework Elite system and will keep base building and large scale as well. But overall, I like Dow3 as it is now too. My slight pity however, is that there won't be new races, but balance patches might be nice thought.

jackattack

@Draconix said:
Revamp might be nice, on condition that won't remove but rework Elite system and will keep base building and large scale as well. But overall, I like Dow3 as it is now too. My slight pity however, is that there won't be new races, but balance patches might be nice thought.

so a game much closer to DoW 1 would be fine with you?

If so, that's nice.

It means that there was hope for DoW 3 had Relic made the decision to revamp, and rests the blame on Relic.

killaabab

@jackattack said:

@killaabab said:

@jackattack said:
I hope this thread gets more replies or it might make DoW 3 players seem very hypocritical.

why would they seem hypocritical?

because if they wanna criticize DoW 1 fans for not accepting 3, they have to hold themselves to similar standards.

Oh I see.

Draconix

@jackattack said:

@Draconix said:
Revamp might be nice, on condition that won't remove but rework Elite system and will keep base building and large scale as well. But overall, I like Dow3 as it is now too. My slight pity however, is that there won't be new races, but balance patches might be nice thought.

so a game much closer to DoW 1 would be fine with you?

If so, that's nice.

It means that there was hope for DoW 3 had Relic made the decision to revamp, and rests the blame on Relic.

Well, I don't mind if the game was closer to Dow1 but with also elements from Dow2. But I got used to the current state of Dow3 gameplay wise anyways.

jackattack

@Draconix said:

@jackattack said:

@Draconix said:
Revamp might be nice, on condition that won't remove but rework Elite system and will keep base building and large scale as well. But overall, I like Dow3 as it is now too. My slight pity however, is that there won't be new races, but balance patches might be nice thought.

so a game much closer to DoW 1 would be fine with you?

If so, that's nice.

It means that there was hope for DoW 3 had Relic made the decision to revamp, and rests the blame on Relic.

Well, I don't mind if the game was closer to Dow1 but with also elements from Dow2. But I got used to the current state of Dow3 gameplay wise anyways.

Got it. What's the future of Dow 3 given the lack of mods?

Draconix

@jackattack said:

@Draconix said:

@jackattack said:

@Draconix said:
Revamp might be nice, on condition that won't remove but rework Elite system and will keep base building and large scale as well. But overall, I like Dow3 as it is now too. My slight pity however, is that there won't be new races, but balance patches might be nice thought.

so a game much closer to DoW 1 would be fine with you?

If so, that's nice.

It means that there was hope for DoW 3 had Relic made the decision to revamp, and rests the blame on Relic.

Well, I don't mind if the game was closer to Dow1 but with also elements from Dow2. But I got used to the current state of Dow3 gameplay wise anyways.

Got it. What's the future of Dow 3 given the lack of mods?

Actually there are some mods for Dow3, even Dullahan made a own.

Decepticats

@jackattack said:

I have to respectfully disagree with all that.

But anyway, I assume you're fine with a revamp?

Do you think the majority of DoW 3 players would've been fine with a revamp?

No, I didn't want them to make it DoW1 like. DoW1 is a game that shows its age. When I try to look at the game with a critical eye ignoring my nostalgia, it doesn't hold up that well. Even setting aside the issues that are of its time (UI, functionality, and graphics): It's not well-balanced, the factions play very similarly, there's not great pacing to when to fight or when not to, the maps aren't very interesting and the cover is not obvious. The unit design isn't as compelling either with most units being simple "A-Move" affairs with maybe some optional kit upgrades.

DoW3 is a better game. But it's different. And different is a hard sell when nostalgia says "this other thing I had when I was younger and life was simpler was better, I want that thing!" The reality is if DoW3 had been IDENTICAL to DoW1 with all of the factions and units just updated graphics and UI, people would have hated it too. Maybe not as overtly (although I think they would have because there's an industry of people on Youtubes and Twitch who make their bucks by stirring outrage), but over time it would not have held people's interest. Nostalgia is fool's gold.

TooMuchHair

I don't understand this notion of revamping the game. A video game is a peace of art, that that people put their hearth and soul into. Messing with it and trying to change it never turns out good. Imagine someone making a painting, and halfway through someone else starts painting over it with their style- it would look bad (I know cause im an art student). That's why I don't like mods that much, to me original is always better. Also I cant understand why people want a new game that is the SAME as the first game- whats the point LOL. Just go play dow1 if you still like it that much. I don't mind people not liking dow3, I don't care about that, what bothers me is when people bash and shiit on it and cant appreciate someone elses work. Most people I see complain about dow3, to me sound like immature bitchees. Personaly I enjoy the game a lot.

Parkerz

People don't understand the work it takes to make a game or revamp it. A completely revamped game would be launched as DOW4, because thinking up a plot for a new campaign would be a billion times easier than revamping the same game

hastings

yes, yes I would

jackattack

@Decepticats said:

@jackattack said:

I have to respectfully disagree with all that.

But anyway, I assume you're fine with a revamp?

Do you think the majority of DoW 3 players would've been fine with a revamp?

No, I didn't want them to make it DoW1 like. DoW1 is a game that shows its age. When I try to look at the game with a critical eye ignoring my nostalgia, it doesn't hold up that well. Even setting aside the issues that are of its time (UI, functionality, and graphics): It's not well-balanced, the factions play very similarly, there's not great pacing to when to fight or when not to, the maps aren't very interesting and the cover is not obvious. The unit design isn't as compelling either with most units being simple "A-Move" affairs with maybe some optional kit upgrades.

DoW3 is a better game. But it's different. And different is a hard sell when nostalgia says "this other thing I had when I was younger and life was simpler was better, I want that thing!" The reality is if DoW3 had been IDENTICAL to DoW1 with all of the factions and units just updated graphics and UI, people would have hated it too. Maybe not as overtly (although I think they would have because there's an industry of people on Youtubes and Twitch who make their bucks by stirring outrage), but over time it would not have held people's interest. Nostalgia is fool's gold.

But DoW 1 has been going pretty strong after 14 years. It does hold interest. And it's not nostalgia when its still active.

Makes me smile when you argue for DoW 3's superiority. I have to say that I feel the same way, but in the opposite direction. I've tried to like DoW 3, I really have. Opposite directions we're at.

(DoW 1 cover is pretty obvious, that I must assert.)

However, it'd be really easy for you to say yes, given that its never going to happen and there are no consequences to saying yes. Since you didn't, I respect your opinion much more.

Again, do you think the bulk of DoW 3 players would've been fine with a revamp?

jackattack

@Parkerz said:
People don't understand the work it takes to make a game or revamp it. A completely revamped game would be launched as DOW4, because thinking up a plot for a new campaign would be a billion times easier than revamping the same game

Regardless of that, if it did happen, would you continue to play?

jackattack

@TooMuchHair said:
I don't understand this notion of revamping the game. A video game is a peace of art, that that people put their hearth and soul into. Messing with it and trying to change it never turns out good. Imagine someone making a painting, and halfway through someone else starts painting over it with their style- it would look bad (I know cause im an art student). That's why I don't like mods that much, to me original is always better. Also I cant understand why people want a new game that is the SAME as the first game- whats the point LOL. Just go play dow1 if you still like it that much. I don't mind people not liking dow3, I don't care about that, what bothers me is when people bash and shiit on it and cant appreciate someone elses work. Most people I see complain about dow3, to me sound like immature bitchees. Personaly I enjoy the game a lot.

You must understand, fans wanted a continuation of the series in a good way (to them). It was 6 long years between DoW 3 and the last DoW release after all. Nobody wants to play DoW 1 forever, but Relic left them little choice.

I wouldn't say DoW 3 was a particularly beautiful painting with lots of heart and soul to begin with. Maybe even soulless? Haha.

Which aspects of a revamp would you be worried about?

jackattack

@Decepticats said:
Reality is, it's an awesome game that has everything that made those games fun and more.

What's the "and more" part of DoW 3?

SykA

I honestly don't understand why people like DoW1 and not DoW3. What's the MAJOR difference between them aside from the Elite system and Power Core win condition? It's the same thing in a better engine with better graphics. Base building? check. Large armies? check. different production buildings for different units? check. unit upgrades? check. Oh you have a rudimentary cover system in DoW1...oh the bloody innovation.
Now excuse my wraith bottom if I like DoW3 just the way it is. Sure there are things that can be improved as with ANY game. But as a whole package DoW3 is a solid and fun game.
"Oh but it lacks content" I hear some people babel on ...well DUH. Let's NOT compare DoW1 WITH expansion with DoW3. If you REALLY must compare content from both games do so with both of the games as they are without expansions. Yeah DoW1 has a second SM faction with more spikes but the difference is minimal between them.

So I must ask: What's DoW3 major flaw?
I honestly believe that the community (should we call it such) has killed DoW3 because it was not a perfect clone of either DoW1 or DoW2.

jackattack

@SykA said:
I honestly don't understand why people like DoW1 and not DoW3. What's the MAJOR difference between them aside from the Elite system and Power Core win condition? It's the same thing in a better engine with better graphics. Base building? check. Large armies? check. different production buildings for different units? check. unit upgrades? check. Oh you have a rudimentary cover system in DoW1...oh the bloody innovation.
Now excuse my wraith bottom if I like DoW3 just the way it is. Sure there are things that can be improved as with ANY game. But as a whole package DoW3 is a solid and fun game.
"Oh but it lacks content" I hear some people babel on ...well DUH. Let's NOT compare DoW1 WITH expansion with DoW3. If you REALLY must compare content from both games do so with both of the games as they are without expansions. Yeah DoW1 has a second SM faction with more spikes but the difference is minimal between them.

So I must ask: What's DoW3 major flaw?
I honestly believe that the community (should we call it such) has killed DoW3 because it was not a perfect clone of either DoW1 or DoW2.

You give the longtime fans too much flak and the devs too much credit. You should instead give the longtime fans less flak and give the devs more.

Large crowds of people are on aggregate, largely identical. It's the handful of devs who make the big decisions which impact the course of history.

And to answer your question:

it is perfectly reasonable for people who like DoW 1 to not like DoW 3.

And earlier, I asked you "What about with DoW 1?"

Alexandra_Moon

@jackattack said:

@SykA said:
I play the game as it is right now. But if it more in line with DoW2 (rpg campaign, more customization options) but keep the engine and the larger scale...sure.

What about with DoW 1?

if they rebuilt it like Dark Crusade?

In a heart beat or faster.

jackattack

@Alexandra_Moon said:

@jackattack said:

@SykA said:
I play the game as it is right now. But if it more in line with DoW2 (rpg campaign, more customization options) but keep the engine and the larger scale...sure.

What about with DoW 1?

if they rebuilt it like Dark Crusade?

In a heart beat or faster.

all they had to do was give DoW 1 with updated graphics and DoW 2 tactical options and it would have been golden already.

Alexandra_Moon

What do you mean tactical options. the ones where I'd have to hold their hand and tell them when to use a grenade? I'd pass on that... I like it better when they don't have abilities I have to manually use.

jackattack

@Alexandra_Moon said:
What do you mean tactical options. the ones where I'd have to hold their hand and tell them when to use a grenade? I'd pass on that... I like it better when they don't have abilities I have to manually use.

I think the good parts of DoW 2, but scaled up to platoon/company-scale.

Dullahan

@jackattack said:

@Decepticats said:
What people didn't like about DoW3 is that it is hard to learn and get good at and Relic was slow to communicate and deploy balance patches for big issues early on.

EDIT: People just told themselves they were mad it wasn't like DoW1 or DoW2 or "not a real DoW game" to sooth their fragile egos. Reality is, it's an awesome game that has everything that made those games fun and more. One of the frequent complaints is "the factions are all the same" but the 3 factions in DoW3 are more different than any of the factions from each other in any of the previous games. Just demonstrates detractors weren't really being fair.

I have to respectfully disagree with all that.

But anyway, I assume you're fine with a revamp?

Do you think the majority of DoW 3 players would've been fine with a revamp?

It obviously depends on how it was revamped.

Considering I have yet to see anyone indicate how they would "revamp" DoW3 other than saying simplistic crap like "Make it more like DoW1" I really doubt it would make a difference.

I have created a mod called "Exodus" that does largely tweak the DoW3 gameplay and people seem to enjoy it. But it is far from a revamp, it's more just a massive amount of balance tweaks and a retuning of the economy. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1299897672

GeneralSkull

@jackattack said:
If Relic had, back then, heavily revamped DoW 3 to bring it more in line with the earlier DoW games, would you have continued to play it?

Like, a massive overhaul of the game.

HELL YEA I WOULD BUT IT WOULD NEED A LOT OF GOOD IDEAS AND LORE IN IT