CURIOUS ABOUT GAMEPLAY ASPECTS OF DOW 3

killaabab

Hi, I like playing RTS games. I've played both DoW 1 and DOW 2 before, but as of late I've been busy with other stuff and didn't really keep up with the gaming news.

Now I'm reading about DoW 3 and I've read many negative criticisms as well as defenses of it.

I'm interested in DoW 3, but the criticisms of how it has worsened from its predecessors worries me, should I buy and pick up the game.

Can you guys tell me more about your experiences playing DoW 3?

Decepticats

It's a really fun RTS game with a strong focus on micro and fast paced tactical combat. It is very challenging to be good at and unfortunately that means people who are used to having an easy time learning a game have a bad experience with it and blame the game for being different rather than trying to improve their own play. Unfortunately, Relic has stopped supporting the game and the player base has dwindled as a result. Wait for a sale to get it.

killaabab

@Decepticats said:
It's a really fun RTS game with a strong focus on micro and fast paced tactical combat. It is very challenging to be good at and unfortunately that means people who are used to having an easy time learning a game have a bad experience with it and blame the game for being different rather than trying to improve their own play. Unfortunately, Relic has stopped supporting the game and the player base has dwindled as a result. Wait for a sale to get it.

some people said it was too much like a MOBA and not enough of an RTS like the earlier DoW games were. I also feel like they took out some of the enjoyable RTS aspects.

GhostC4ke

You could try it . If it fits your liking , buy it or if you don't like it refund

killaabab

@GhostC4ke said:
You could try it . If it fits your liking , buy it or if you don't like it refund

thanks. how has your DoW 3 experience been?

GhostC4ke

Well , I don't like it
DOW 3 doesn't bring the magic that DOW 1,2 bring
This video could sum up my idea about DOW 3
You should make up your own idea

Draconix

Well, it didn't becamed much succesfull as Dow1 or even Dow2, but overall I grown to like this game anyways.

The best thing to do, when it comes to judging games is thought by own experience. So you should try it and when you like it, keep it, otherwise refund. Myself as I said, I like this game.

Decepticats

@killaabab said:

some people said it was too much like a MOBA and not enough of an RTS like the earlier DoW games were. I also feel like they took out some of the enjoyable RTS aspects.

That's silly. It is more of an RTS than DoW2. DoW2 was the most MOBA-like DoW of them all (you pick a single hero, no base building, you control very few units. maps are small and largely restrict movement).

But none of the DoW's are enough like MOBAs to have the label.

Let's make something clear: MOBAs are RTS games. They are derived from them the way a Square is a Rectangle. So that debate is silly on its face since every RTS could be likened to MOBAs and vice versa for that reason.

DoW3 is basically an amped up DoW1 with objectives in the main multiplayer mode (there's an annihilation mode too). It's a very awesome RTS game imo but people wanted to kill it before it was even out and spent tons of time deriding it on forums, reddit, and twitter with very little response from Relic. Relic was marketing this game as if it were still the year 2002 and G4 was still where people went to learn about games.

A good game thwarted by an overwhelming false narrative in a medium the developer/publisher did not have mastery over.

Decepticats

@killaabab are you and @jackattack the same person? Seems like it.

@Gorb

jackattack

@Decepticats said:
@killaabab are you and @jackattack the same person? Seems like it.

>

No, we are not.

jackattack

@Decepticats said:

@killaabab said:

some people said it was too much like a MOBA and not enough of an RTS like the earlier DoW games were. I also feel like they took out some of the enjoyable RTS aspects.

DoW2 was the most MOBA-like DoW of them all (you pick a single hero, no base building, you control very few units. maps are small and largely restrict movement).

But none of the DoW's are enough like MOBAs to have the label.

Let's make something clear: MOBAs are RTS games. They are derived from them the way a Square is a Rectangle. So that debate is silly on its face since every RTS could be likened to MOBAs and vice versa for that reason.

DoW3 is basically an amped up DoW1 with objectives in the main multiplayer mode (there's an annihilation mode too). It's a very awesome RTS game imo but people wanted to kill it before it was even out and spent tons of time deriding it on forums, reddit, and twitter with very little response from Relic. Relic was marketing this game as if it were still the year 2002 and G4 was still where people went to learn about games.

A good game thwarted by an overwhelming false narrative in a medium the developer/publisher did not have mastery over.

DoW 2 is not the most MOBA-like of them all.

Since OP played the earlier games, he would understand what the critics are saying very well.

You said that it was a good RTS but people were resistant to change. So you must ask yourself, what was the purpose of those changes? And what good were they ultimately?

These are the important questions.

jackattack

@Decepticats said:

Let's make something clear: MOBAs are RTS games. They are derived from them the way a Square is a Rectangle. So that debate is silly on its face since every RTS could be likened to MOBAs and vice versa for that reason.

They are derived from them but end up being very different. Big differences between Dota and WC3.

jackattack

@Decepticats said:

@killaabab said:

some people said it was too much like a MOBA and not enough of an RTS like the earlier DoW games were. I also feel like they took out some of the enjoyable RTS aspects.

That's silly. It is more of an RTS than DoW2. DoW2 was the most MOBA-like DoW of them all (you pick a single hero, no base building, you control very few units. maps are small and largely restrict movement).

But none of the DoW's are enough like MOBAs to have the label.

Let's make something clear: MOBAs are RTS games. They are derived from them the way a Square is a Rectangle. So that debate is silly on its face since every RTS could be likened to MOBAs and vice versa for that reason.

DoW3 is basically an amped up DoW1 with objectives in the main multiplayer mode (there's an annihilation mode too). It's a very awesome RTS game imo but people wanted to kill it before it was even out and spent tons of time deriding it on forums, reddit, and twitter with very little response from Relic. Relic was marketing this game as if it were still the year 2002 and G4 was still where people went to learn about games.

A good game thwarted by an overwhelming false narrative in a medium the developer/publisher did not have mastery over.

Check out this article:

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-03-06-dawn-of-war-3s-multiplayer-reveals-moba-influence

"MOBAs are definitely something we've looked at," Relic game designer Philippe Boulle tells me.

"When we went to make Dawn of War 3, specifically the multiplayer, we did spend some time looking at MOBAs and decided to pick and choose some lessons there. Obviously heroes with big, bold abilities is something MOBAs do quite well. What we liked about the objective in those games, and the lesson we took, is creating some specific places on the map that become concentrations especially for the late game - quick things you know you want to attack, you know you want to defend.

Dullahan

@jackattack said:

@Decepticats said:

@killaabab said:

some people said it was too much like a MOBA and not enough of an RTS like the earlier DoW games were. I also feel like they took out some of the enjoyable RTS aspects.

DoW2 was the most MOBA-like DoW of them all (you pick a single hero, no base building, you control very few units. maps are small and largely restrict movement).

But none of the DoW's are enough like MOBAs to have the label.

Let's make something clear: MOBAs are RTS games. They are derived from them the way a Square is a Rectangle. So that debate is silly on its face since every RTS could be likened to MOBAs and vice versa for that reason.

DoW3 is basically an amped up DoW1 with objectives in the main multiplayer mode (there's an annihilation mode too). It's a very awesome RTS game imo but people wanted to kill it before it was even out and spent tons of time deriding it on forums, reddit, and twitter with very little response from Relic. Relic was marketing this game as if it were still the year 2002 and G4 was still where people went to learn about games.

A good game thwarted by an overwhelming false narrative in a medium the developer/publisher did not have mastery over.

DoW 2 is not the most MOBA-like of them all.

You pick a hero before the game starts. Each hero has a unique set of abilities and global abilities and uses energy to activate their abilities.
You can buy items for your hero that unlock new weapons, abilities and provide bonuses to health, damage resistance or energy.
Your hero levels up as they kill units to gain significant bonuses to health, damage and other bonuses like Melee Skill. (Increases the likliehood of triggering special attacks, reduces the vulnerability to being hit by those attacks from enemies)

Really the more obvious comparison is Warcraft III but considering Warcraft III was the basis for all MOBA elements this comes as no surprise. There was a lot of talk of DOTA Mods for DoW2 when it first came out.

The Elite units in DoW3 on the other hand do not get stronger as the game goes on. They do not level. They have a fixed loadout and cannot buy new wargear for bonusdes. There are a few moba inspired elements in DoW3 but mechanically DoW2 has far more in common with them.

Dullahan

@jackattack said:

Check out this article:

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-03-06-dawn-of-war-3s-multiplayer-reveals-moba-influence

"MOBAs are definitely something we've looked at," Relic game designer Philippe Boulle tells me.

"When we went to make Dawn of War 3, specifically the multiplayer, we did spend some time looking at MOBAs and decided to pick and choose some lessons there. Obviously heroes with big, bold abilities is something MOBAs do quite well. What we liked about the objective in those games, and the lesson we took, is creating some specific places on the map that become concentrations especially for the late game - quick things you know you want to attack, you know you want to defend.

There is MOBA inspiration in DoW3 but that mostly applies to fourthings.

1. The Power Core game mode structure. As Philippe says the point of this was to provide obvious attack and defense points for players, especially in team games. You'll notice in say a game like CoH2 where deciding the attack area or what you need to defend is a lot more complicated. Victory points drain too slowly to be a massive concern, and likewise knowing where saving a munitions point over a fuel point depends on the game situation. Defending Shield Generators and Turrets is extremely important because of the economic bonus it provides your opponent and likewise having a large resource bounty for killing those targets makes attacking them very attractive. DoW2 had victory points for this but in a team game this system didn't work as well and often lead to each team having a "safe" VP while they all fought over a single point on the map.
2. The emphasis on vision with realistic fog of war, stealth cover and highground mechanics. Walls block vision now, unless you have a skimmer or high ground. Stealth cover creates opportunities for units to escape which is very important when there is no retreat mechanic like DoW2. It also creates opportunities for ambush with many units gaining bonuses from engaging from stealth cover with doctrines.
3. The emphasis on UI and visual clarity. This is a massive improvement over DoW1/DoW2. I could spend hours talking about it but I think this is pretty obvious to everyone that the UI does a much better job of showing buffs/debuffs and the tooltips more accurately describe abilities.
4. Many Elite unit abilities are inspired from MOBAs in that most of them are versatile and have several functions. For example Wazmakka's Traktor beam can be used as a Shield for a friendly unit, a debuff for an enemy unit or as a way to jump Wazmakka to a piece of scrap. Most abilities in DoW3 have some sort of effect on movement as well which is very much a MOBA design. For example Gabriel's Slam ability also lets him jump over obstacles or onto a higher/lower elevation of terrain. Likewise Jonah's Stonewall ability will trap units and make them unable to run away without some sort of jump ability.

However the Elite units themselves are the antithesis of MOBA design- they are the strongest they will ever be the moment they are called onto the field. They have no way of leveling, upgrading or unlocking additional functionality. This means the big focus on DoW3 is wanting to deploy each Elite as soon as possible without dying. If you rush Solaria at ~20 minutes you will probably win the game if you didn't fall so far behind because you skipped all the cheaper Elite units until then. If you build Gabriel after Deathwatch and Jonah at 18 minutes on the other hand he will be significantly less effective and likely not have a big effect on the game.