I think I can comment on what is intentional. Does it make any sense to give visual feedback (showing tracks, adding and removing items from the queue) if the intention was just to stop everything? There's a command buffer that was clearly designed to hold a lot of command sequences that are then performed when unpaused. The audio even starts up where it left off sometimes in midsentence. You think that just happens?
Every single Relic game has had this feature dating back to before there was any form of multiplayer and I've used it in every game. It's been discussed on forums, bugs have been entered and fixed, the functionality has been modified and improved. If this was the result of some happy accident then it's been one hell of an amazing set of circumstances unheard of in software history..
Only the developers can state what is intentional. And yes, if you pause any aspect of the simulation when paused it makes sense that you can continue to interact with the non-paused threads when the game is paused.
I've already explained why it might not be intentional. I've considered your arguments and given counterarguments, but it's not like I can force you to believe anything you've already decided ahead of time not to believe.
You're repeating yourself at this point, and if I address your claims, I will be too.
In the paused state the audio effects for user interactions like adding items to a queue continue to work but the action audio is stopped. Unintentional? That's a pretty unlikely.
Oh, BTW. This is a sub-genre called "real-time with pause" and you can search Steam for games that support it.
Tags are user-created. That doesn't specify any intent on behalf of the developer. If you're going to continue to put me down and make up silly comparisons, at least get the subject of debate right in the first place
Okay, I just created an account to weigh in on the subject.
First of all, Gorb is quite a character. I guess he considers himself a mediator. He is incredibly self-righteous, and quite frankly, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he fancies the smell of his own flatulence. I really don't know where he gets off on presuming to teach others. No one needs nor asks for his advice on what is proper etiquette.
His pompous smugness is all the more glaring in light of the fact that he is 100% WRONG on this issue.
The pause element was very much intended. How do I know? Because not only has it been in every relic RTS known to man, but it can also be found in MANY OTHER RTS titles. It even has a name, for crying out loud!!! It's called "active pause", and is a fundamental element of the genre!
And this guy tells Morfeas to "speak for yourself" and "get people posting". People HAVE been posting. Everywhere. People are still posting. It means a lot to people - it meant enough to me to create an account, after all.
We can post anything we like. It does not seem that this will get fix for this. It is almost a year and developers did not even acknowledge that there is something wrong with software after they "fixed" it for multiplayer.
I'd forgotten what it felt like to have someone register just to insult another user (i.e. me). Thanks for the memories I mediate because I'm the forum moderator, Stormvessel. No more, no less. That's all the reason I need.
The thread will be kept open, of course. No point locking threads when they're this thin on the ground in the first place. Of course, you could also argue that developer inattention means that this feature is either not a priority, or not intended in the first instance . . . so go figure.
Yeah, there really isn't much else to talk about here, other than keeping the thread active so that the developer has incentive to eventually fix the issue.
Please stop insulting Gorb, he is entitled to his own opinions, and Gorb please act responsibly as a mod and don't try to undermine this thread. What we want is clear and our opinions are not subject to change (seeing as this "thin on the ground" thread has almost reached 6 pages with 10 more pages on the Steam forums) regardless of what arguments, right or wrong, you post. Let us try and get it in peace, no reason to fight over it anymore.
Oh, sorry, undermining wasn't what I meant to do. I meant "thin on the ground" in that there aren't many active threads in total, and so locking one of them (especially a pretty active one) is silly when all I want is to promote people posting on here!
I too have created an account just to weigh in on this. I too think that Gorb is a-nah, just kidding. I'm a forum admin myself (over at Hard Light Productions), and I know how hard it can be to keep squabbling forumites from tearing each other's virtual throats out...
Back on topic. In RTS games the world over, the AI can multi-task, instantly issuing commands to numerous units and structures regardless of where they are on the map. Human players, OTOH, are constricted by the placement of UI elements, the location and convenience of the keyboard shortcuts to those commands, and the location of their units on the map. It takes time to move the mouse to a location, move a finger to a key, etc.
To compensate for this is, AFAIK, the reason for "active pause" in RTS games... to allow the slow and UI-restricted human player to effectively execute commands as fast as the AI.
It's not an oft-advertised feature, no, but considering the command and sound queuing needed to execute an "active pause" properly, it's not a mistake or a side-effect, either. It is fully intentional when present.
IMO we need to abandon this and start a new thread - especially if Relic think they fixed the "pause button don't work" bug. The way I see it, there's now a new bug (or at the very least, unexpected and unintended behavior) in the game now where the "Pause/Break" keyboard key is bound to the in-game menu. Said menu is and should continue to be bound to the F10 key, while the Pause/Break key should invoke the "active pause" functionality - at least, it should in games vs the AI.
Very good point. To expand on this, the AI also has a photographic memory of all locations and units however briefly exposed through the fog of war. The non-superhuman player is only monitoring specific regions at any one time and usually misses lots of information exposed on the map. Active pause allows you to see the slightest flicker on the mini-map and freeze the game to scroll see what's there before it vanishes. This levels the playing field vs the AI quite a bit.
If anyone starts a new thread on this topic, please leave a comment in this thread. I only monitor this thread.
I still don't quite understand this thread, sorry. Are you asking Relic to add the feature of being able to pause the game, stack some commands, and then resume so the commands are executed? That's quite a request to ask for at this point :-S
molul -- that feature was already present in the game from begining. We just ask Relic to RESTORE product they SOLD us to its correct shape. Maybe now you will be able to "understand".
Sandwich -- the main problem is that developers don't acknowledge that there is a bug. Right now I don't see them acknowledging anything. It is one big "go f- yourself, we don't give a **++heresy redacted++**" they gave to people who bought their game.
Guys, I just want to be able to pause to take a nice close look at the animations without having to watch a youtube video at 144p directed by someone who sucks at getting the angles right. Is it too much asking to restore a button that was already implemented? You think pausing against the AI is cheating? Then have the self-discipline to leave the pause button alone, instead of just deleting it xD BTW, do you know of someone who is working on a "Pause Mod" or something? I don't really care about commands, I just want to stop the game without the menu screen blocking the whole center of it
I don't think they are going to fix this. The functionality was ripped out rather crudely when they abandoned Games for Windows Live so I think they were forced to remove functioning pause to allow their new networking hackery to function.
This is a dead game as far as I can see. I sure wish updates were optional because this killed the game for me.
That mod looks cool actually. If the game actually worked that is. I physically can't play the game without active pause so for me it's pointless and knowing that there's user-generated content I can't access just rubs salt in the wound.
I don't think they are going to fix this. The functionality was ripped out rather crudely when they abandoned Games for Windows Live so I think they were forced to remove functioning pause to allow their new networking hackery to function.
This is a dead game as far as I can see. I sure wish updates were optional because this killed the game for me.
GfWL died first. Please get the order of events right. You'd find it even less playable than a missing pause option, had Relic not worked on it.
GfWL died first. Please get the order of events right. You'd find it even less playable than a missing pause option, had Relic not worked on it.
Yes, bad word choice on my part. When the game had to transition from the dead platform Relic had to make some significant modifications to the network code which left this feature crippled. I understand the business decision but still lament the end of the game for me and a few others.
What irks me more than losing this game is that Relic might think of this as a disposable feature. Which, after 27 years of enjoyment, would mean the end of video gaming for me. Coh2 is my last game standing.
Menu
Comments
swat
So developers wrote different code for two different pause modes. They spent time to provide both options.
And you say they did it by mistake.
This is hilarious.
Lemurcatta
Every single Relic game has had this feature dating back to before there was any form of multiplayer and I've used it in every game. It's been discussed on forums, bugs have been entered and fixed, the functionality has been modified and improved. If this was the result of some happy accident then it's been one hell of an amazing set of circumstances unheard of in software history..
Gorb
@Lermurcatta:
Only the developers can state what is intentional. And yes, if you pause any aspect of the simulation when paused it makes sense that you can continue to interact with the non-paused threads when the game is paused.
I've already explained why it might not be intentional. I've considered your arguments and given counterarguments, but it's not like I can force you to believe anything you've already decided ahead of time not to believe.
You're repeating yourself at this point, and if I address your claims, I will be too.
Lemurcatta
In the paused state the audio effects for user interactions like adding items to a queue continue to work but the action audio is stopped. Unintentional? That's a pretty unlikely.
Oh, BTW. This is a sub-genre called "real-time with pause" and you can search Steam for games that support it.
http://store.steampowered.com/tag/en/Real-Time with Pause/#p=0&tab=NewReleases
Here's a reddit thread on the topic that includes DOW2.
http://www.reddit.com/r/ShouldIbuythisgame/comments/1t550z/wsib_if_i_want_an_rts_that_allows_me_to_pause/
You're like a juror that requires a confession when all the other evidence is rock solid.
Gorb
Lemurcatta
I do regret using the term "flounce" -- it was irresistible yet tacky.
Would you require a notarized signed statement on the part of the developers? How many witnesses? I'll get right on that.
Stormvessel
Okay, I just created an account to weigh in on the subject.
First of all, Gorb is quite a character. I guess he considers himself a mediator. He is incredibly self-righteous, and quite frankly, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he fancies the smell of his own flatulence. I really don't know where he gets off on presuming to teach others. No one needs nor asks for his advice on what is proper etiquette.
His pompous smugness is all the more glaring in light of the fact that he is 100% WRONG on this issue.
The pause element was very much intended. How do I know? Because not only has it been in every relic RTS known to man, but it can also be found in MANY OTHER RTS titles. It even has a name, for crying out loud!!! It's called "active pause", and is a fundamental element of the genre!
And this guy tells Morfeas to "speak for yourself" and "get people posting". People HAVE been posting. Everywhere. People are still posting. It means a lot to people - it meant enough to me to create an account, after all.
What a tool this guy is.
swat
Morfeas
swat
And it never have been a bug in the first place. d:
Gorb
The thread will be kept open, of course. No point locking threads when they're this thin on the ground in the first place. Of course, you could also argue that developer inattention means that this feature is either not a priority, or not intended in the first instance . . . so go figure.
Still going in circles at this point, aren't we?
Morfeas
Please stop insulting Gorb, he is entitled to his own opinions, and Gorb please act responsibly as a mod and don't try to undermine this thread. What we want is clear and our opinions are not subject to change (seeing as this "thin on the ground" thread has almost reached 6 pages with 10 more pages on the Steam forums) regardless of what arguments, right or wrong, you post. Let us try and get it in peace, no reason to fight over it anymore.
Gorb
Sandwich
Back on topic. In RTS games the world over, the AI can multi-task, instantly issuing commands to numerous units and structures regardless of where they are on the map. Human players, OTOH, are constricted by the placement of UI elements, the location and convenience of the keyboard shortcuts to those commands, and the location of their units on the map. It takes time to move the mouse to a location, move a finger to a key, etc.
To compensate for this is, AFAIK, the reason for "active pause" in RTS games... to allow the slow and UI-restricted human player to effectively execute commands as fast as the AI.
It's not an oft-advertised feature, no, but considering the command and sound queuing needed to execute an "active pause" properly, it's not a mistake or a side-effect, either. It is fully intentional when present.
IMO we need to abandon this and start a new thread - especially if Relic think they fixed the "pause button don't work" bug. The way I see it, there's now a new bug (or at the very least, unexpected and unintended behavior) in the game now where the "Pause/Break" keyboard key is bound to the in-game menu. Said menu is and should continue to be bound to the F10 key, while the Pause/Break key should invoke the "active pause" functionality - at least, it should in games vs the AI.
Lemurcatta
If anyone starts a new thread on this topic, please leave a comment in this thread. I only monitor this thread.
molul
swat
Sandwich -- the main problem is that developers don't acknowledge that there is a bug. Right now I don't see them acknowledging anything. It is one big "go f- yourself, we don't give a **++heresy redacted++**" they gave to people who bought their game.
molul
swat
Morfeas
swat
Morfeas
*raises glass*
@Jeff_RE @Cynthia_RE
Gorb
Morfeas
zerghalo3
You think pausing against the AI is cheating? Then have the self-discipline to leave the pause button alone, instead of just deleting it xD
BTW, do you know of someone who is working on a "Pause Mod" or something? I don't really care about commands, I just want to stop the game without the menu screen blocking the whole center of it
Lemurcatta
This is a dead game as far as I can see. I sure wish updates were optional because this killed the game for me.
Dark_Riku
Lemurcatta
Gorb
Lemurcatta
What irks me more than losing this game is that Relic might think of this as a disposable feature. Which, after 27 years of enjoyment, would mean the end of video gaming for me. Coh2 is my last game standing.