Abaddon and the Blood Ravens

WarEagle

this is something i've been wondering ever since the Chaos Rising
why is it that abaddon the despoiler warmaster Chaos want the blood ravens dead
i understand he wants every thing thats is the imperium dead, but he apparently gives special attention for the blood ravens,
i mean he send a warband of the Black Legion from one side to the other side of the galaxy just to destroy the blood ravens is there not more importent things to do
https://youtube.com/watch?v=kJ7f-gK_yo0

DBusby

Perhaps the rest of the story will be uncovered in the upcoming DoW3.

Maybe there is a secret that he knows about the Blood Ravens, that they don't themselves know about.

folklore

Something I am very curious about as well, in dark crusade I believe if chaos takes the space marine stronghold, than eliphas makes offerings of their conquest to Abbaddon.

Fadlan

They propably stole borrowed some artifact from him.

SharKnight

@WarEagle said:
this is something i've been wondering ever since the Chaos Rising
why is it that abaddon the despoiler warmaster Chaos want the blood ravens dead
i understand he wants every thing thats is the imperium dead, but he apparently gives special attention for the blood ravens,
i mean he send a warband of the Black Legion from one side to the other side of the galaxy just to destroy the blood ravens is there not more importent things to do
https://youtube.com/watch?v=kJ7f-gK_yo0

Well I take the story is revolving at the same time that the 13th black crusade is taking place.

What Azariah Kyrass was doing was basically enough to challenge Abbadon on who was bigger and more dangerous and was basically gaining more favor and attention from the chaos god.
I mean he was literally going to sacrifice an ENTIRE CHAPTER and an Entire sector! which happened to be the chapter that escaped Tzeench's puppeteering strings.

So ofcourse the Blood Ravens represented an obstacle that absolutely HAD to be dealt before Kyrass achieved his objective.

WarEagle

@SharKnight said:

@WarEagle said:
this is something i've been wondering ever since the Chaos Rising
why is it that abaddon the despoiler warmaster Chaos want the blood ravens dead
i understand he wants every thing thats is the imperium dead, but he apparently gives special attention for the blood ravens,
i mean he send a warband of the Black Legion from one side to the other side of the galaxy just to destroy the blood ravens is there not more importent things to do
https://youtube.com/watch?v=kJ7f-gK_yo0

Well I take the story is revolving at the same time that the 13th black crusade is taking place.

What Azariah Kyrass was doing was basically enough to challenge Abbadon on who was bigger and more dangerous and was basically gaining more favor and attention from the chaos god.
I mean he was literally going to sacrifice an ENTIRE CHAPTER and an Entire sector! which happened to be the chapter that escaped Tzeench's puppeteering strings.

So ofcourse the Blood Ravens represented an obstacle that absolutely HAD to be dealt before Kyrass achieved his objective.

my first thoughts were the same but
events of DoW2R takes place after 13th Black Crusade, dialogs in DoW2 confirmed captain Davian Thule was present on Cadia prior to the Dark Crusade

further more subsector aurelia is consisted only 3 populated planets while in the 12th and the 13th abaddon manage to destroy and cause more havoc and chaos
across the segmentum obscurus and he also manage to wipe out two entire chapters in one of the black crusades

though them being possible Thousand sons and abaddon wants them dead is a good theory, but that even more complicates the story
i mean why kill them when you can turn them

SharKnight

@WarEagle said:
my first thoughts were the same but
events of DoW2R takes place after 13th Black Crusade, dialogs in DoW2 confirmed captain Davian Thule was present on Cadia prior to the Dark Crusade

further more subsector aurelia is consisted only 3 populated planets while in the 12th and the 13th abaddon manage to destroy and cause more havoc and chaos
across the segmentum obscurus and he also manage to wipe out two entire chapters in one of the black crusades

though them being possible Thousand sons and abaddon wants them dead is a good theory, but that even more complicates the story
i mean why kill them when you can turn them

When thule meant before the Dark Crusade, he actually meant THE DARK CRUSADE storyline from DAWN of War Dark Crusade that takes place on Kronus!
Abbadon wants them death because the traitor chapter master made a pact with the maledictum "as stated in retribution" which is very very very powerful warp entity. furthermore Abbaddon did all of that with the help of multiple Legions while Kyrass did it all by his scheming self.
Note: I doubt the thousand sons would want to destroy the blood ravens, much to the contrary.

WarEagle

@SharKnight said:

@WarEagle said:
my first thoughts were the same but
events of DoW2R takes place after 13th Black Crusade, dialogs in DoW2 confirmed captain Davian Thule was present on Cadia prior to the Dark Crusade

further more subsector aurelia is consisted only 3 populated planets while in the 12th and the 13th abaddon manage to destroy and cause more havoc and chaos
across the segmentum obscurus and he also manage to wipe out two entire chapters in one of the black crusades

though them being possible Thousand sons and abaddon wants them dead is a good theory, but that even more complicates the story
i mean why kill them when you can turn them

When thule meant before the Dark Crusade, he actually meant THE DARK CRUSADE storyline from DAWN of War Dark Crusade that takes place on Kronus!
Abbadon wants them death because the traitor chapter master made a pact with the maledictum "as stated in retribution" which is very very very powerful warp entity. furthermore Abbaddon did all of that with the help of multiple Legions while Kyrass did it all by his scheming self.
Note: I doubt the thousand sons would want to destroy the blood ravens, much to the contrary.

"Before the Kronus campaign, Captain Davian Thule commanded the Blood Ravens' 4th Company on Cadia. There, his men dropped on the Iron Warriors Traitor Marines who were marching towards the city of Kasr Sonnen. The battle went heavily in the favor of the Blood Ravens. However, word came that the Black Legion was en route as well, and orders came down from the Chapter Master to withdraw. Thule resisted and pressed his advantages until the Chapter Master threatened to have him removed from command. Thule and the Blood Ravens left, leaving the Cadian Imperial Guard Regiments to fend for themselves against the Black Legion Traitor Marines."

1. the last time there was a war in cadia was during the 13th black crusade
2. you have a good point in the second matter and i agree with you there but if you listen to the DoW2R Abaddon quotes it sounds as if Blood Raven are highly importance to him
3. i didn't mean TS would want BR Dead, i meant BL might, considering the fact that BR having Psykers capable of seeing future even surpassing(might) the skill of his own Cabal seems to be a good reason

SharKnight

@WarEagle said:

> "Before the Kronus campaign, Captain Davian Thule commanded the Blood Ravens' 4th Company on Cadia. There, his men dropped on the Iron Warriors Traitor Marines who were marching towards the city of Kasr Sonnen. The battle went heavily in the favor of the Blood Ravens. However, word came that the Black Legion was en route as well, and orders came down from the Chapter Master to withdraw. Thule resisted and pressed his advantages until the Chapter Master threatened to have him removed from command. Thule and the Blood Ravens left, leaving the Cadian Imperial Guard Regiments to fend for themselves against the Black Legion Traitor Marines."

1. the last time there was a war in cadia was during the 13th black crusade
2. you have a good point in the second matter and i agree with you there but if you listen to the DoW2R Abaddon quotes it sounds as if Blood Raven are highly importance to him
3. i didn't mean TS would want BR Dead, i meant BL might, considering the fact that BR having Psykers capable of seeing future even surpassing(might) the skill of his own Cabal seems to be a good reason

Nice find @WarEagle you earned yourself some purity seals for this.
I would have argued that it could had been from one of Abbaddons previous black crusades or just another attack on Cadia before the 13th. Specially since it doesnt explicitly sate it. BUT if there hasnt been an attack prior to the 13th then it is highly possible.
However I am curious, where did you got the information of no attacks on cadia previous to the 13th? It could had been a retcon from GW, and even thought that is way besides the point of the Aurelian civil war taking place during or after the 13th, I am just curious about it. I always thought that Cadia had recieved multiple attacks on Cadia before.

I still think that Kyrass had the chances of becoming an even greater champion of chaos that could rival abbadon in favour. And by not standing in the way of the schemes of chaos could had been another factor or it could simply be a part of the deal that he struck with Ulkiar?
Note:I once had a chat with one of the developers of the Eye Of Terror worldwide campaign and I told him about the story of retribution, he sounded pretty amazed like. He said, WOW an entire chapter and a sector?

WarEagle

@SharKnight said:

@WarEagle said:

> "Before the Kronus campaign, Captain Davian Thule commanded the Blood Ravens' 4th Company on Cadia. There, his men dropped on the Iron Warriors Traitor Marines who were marching towards the city of Kasr Sonnen. The battle went heavily in the favor of the Blood Ravens. However, word came that the Black Legion was en route as well, and orders came down from the Chapter Master to withdraw. Thule resisted and pressed his advantages until the Chapter Master threatened to have him removed from command. Thule and the Blood Ravens left, leaving the Cadian Imperial Guard Regiments to fend for themselves against the Black Legion Traitor Marines."

1. the last time there was a war in cadia was during the 13th black crusade
2. you have a good point in the second matter and i agree with you there but if you listen to the DoW2R Abaddon quotes it sounds as if Blood Raven are highly importance to him
3. i didn't mean TS would want BR Dead, i meant BL might, considering the fact that BR having Psykers capable of seeing future even surpassing(might) the skill of his own Cabal seems to be a good reason

Nice find @WarEagle you earned yourself some purity seals for this.
I would have argued that it could had been from one of Abbaddons previous black crusades or just another attack on Cadia before the 13th. Specially since it doesnt explicitly sate it. BUT if there hasnt been an attack prior to the 13th then it is highly possible.
However I am curious, where did you got the information of no attacks on cadia previous to the 13th? It could had been a retcon from GW, and even thought that is way besides the point of the Aurelian civil war taking place during or after the 13th, I am just curious about it. I always thought that Cadia had recieved multiple attacks on Cadia before.

I still think that Kyrass had the chances of becoming an even greater champion of chaos that could rival abbadon in favour. And by not standing in the way of the schemes of chaos could had been another factor or it could simply be a part of the deal that he struck with Ulkiar?
Note:I once had a chat with one of the developers of the Eye Of Terror worldwide campaign and I told him about the story of retribution, he sounded pretty amazed like. He said, WOW an entire chapter and a sector?

the last major chaos invasion prior to the 13th black crusade was the Gothic war which was in 139.M41 - 160.M41 and there were no assaults on cadia during that time(that i know of) i don't know if there were any minor skirmished which happened in planet cadia during the time period between the two conflicts (i highly doubt chaos forces would be able to wage war on cadia without a large force equivalent to CSM legions on cadia)

and in the DoW2 campaign the tyranids blood raven fought was a tendril of the hive fleet leviathan which didn't make any appearance in the galaxy till the year 997.M41

so taking that in to account and what i posted earlier i would assume that events of retribution occurred sometime after the 13th black crusade

as for Kyrus he was only serving Khorne , the god who doesn't give a $#!t how blood flows but only that it does, while abaddon was serving all four chaos gods
considering that it doesn't matter to khorne how many forces used or the tactic used (although he prefers pure carnage and melee) as long as there is results
and abaddon is more successful causing more bloodshed and destruction than kyrus ever will (although kyrus's ascension to demonhood was via the tarturus demon which has a important roll)

the thing is at the current moment there is no proper theory and all we could do is wait for DoW3 to explain more about blood raven lore and advancment in the plot

SharKnight

@WarEagle said:
the last major chaos invasion prior to the 13th black crusade was the Gothic war which was in 139.M41 - 160.M41 and there were no assaults on cadia during that time(that i know of) i don't know if there were any minor skirmished which happened in planet cadia during the time period between the two conflicts (i highly doubt chaos forces would be able to wage war on cadia without a large force equivalent to CSM legions on cadia)

and in the DoW2 campaign the tyranids blood raven fought was a tendril of the hive fleet leviathan which didn't make any appearance in the galaxy till the year 997.M41

so taking that in to account and what i posted earlier i would assume that events of retribution occurred sometime after the 13th black crusade

as for Kyrus he was only serving Khorne , the god who doesn't give a $#!t how blood flows but only that it does, while abaddon was serving all four chaos gods
considering that it doesn't matter to khorne how many forces used or the tactic used (although he prefers pure carnage and melee) as long as there is results
and abaddon is more successful causing more bloodshed and destruction than kyrus ever will (although kyrus's ascension to demonhood was via the tarturus demon which has a important roll)

the thing is at the current moment there is no proper theory and all we could do is wait for DoW3 to explain more about blood raven lore and advancment in the plot

Jolly scotss! Hand this man another purity seal! This is some interesting and good information none the less.

Was he really only serving Khorne? I mean didnt he made a pact with Ulkiar as well? to the point that some of his retinue that had been on the judgement of carrionalongside him was drooling pestilence on calderis back on that mission when you had to slap the sense out of Apollo Diomedes.
And also you have to admit, manipulating a lot of events including his very own chapter is something that the architect of fate would be proud of as well.
Never the less he did it all by himself and that itself was enough to take away attention of the chaos gods away from Abbadon. At least from Khorne, Tzeench and Nurlge. But specially Khorne.

To think he was going to turn into one of those super Oldhammer Khorne sorcerers lol. I heard they havent been around since the 80's.

Yes DOW 3 is what will tell us a lot of new stuff that we want to know.

WarEagle

@SharKnight said:

@WarEagle said:
the last major chaos invasion prior to the 13th black crusade was the Gothic war which was in 139.M41 - 160.M41 and there were no assaults on cadia during that time(that i know of) i don't know if there were any minor skirmished which happened in planet cadia during the time period between the two conflicts (i highly doubt chaos forces would be able to wage war on cadia without a large force equivalent to CSM legions on cadia)

and in the DoW2 campaign the tyranids blood raven fought was a tendril of the hive fleet leviathan which didn't make any appearance in the galaxy till the year 997.M41

so taking that in to account and what i posted earlier i would assume that events of retribution occurred sometime after the 13th black crusade

as for Kyrus he was only serving Khorne , the god who doesn't give a $#!t how blood flows but only that it does, while abaddon was serving all four chaos gods
considering that it doesn't matter to khorne how many forces used or the tactic used (although he prefers pure carnage and melee) as long as there is results
and abaddon is more successful causing more bloodshed and destruction than kyrus ever will (although kyrus's ascension to demonhood was via the tarturus demon which has a important roll)

the thing is at the current moment there is no proper theory and all we could do is wait for DoW3 to explain more about blood raven lore and advancment in the plot

Jolly scotss! Hand this man another purity seal! This is some interesting and good information none the less.

Was he really only serving Khorne? I mean didnt he made a pact with Ulkiar as well? to the point that some of his retinue that had been on the judgement of carrionalongside him was drooling pestilence on calderis back on that mission when you had to slap the sense out of Apollo Diomedes.
And also you have to admit, manipulating a lot of events including his very own chapter is something that the architect of fate would be proud of as well.
Never the less he did it all by himself and that itself was enough to take away attention of the chaos gods away from Abbadon. At least from Khorne, Tzeench and Nurlge. But specially Khorne.

To think he was going to turn into one of those super Oldhammer Khorne sorcerers lol. I heard they havent been around since the 80's.

Yes DOW 3 is what will tell us a lot of new stuff that we want to know.

thank you

and yes i am sure he was only serving Khorne which is pretty messed up and something which much of the community finds to be very funny

https://youtube.com/watch?v=fmj0Vanuw4I

SharKnight

Well to be fair retribution wasnt particularly greatly written. They had to cram 5 different factions into a single story with railroads. It was pretty pointless and only left us with a bad and lackluster campaign full of memes.
At least Bludflag was fun, but still I found it lacking.

WarEagle

@SharKnight said:
Well to be fair retribution wasnt particularly greatly written. They had to cram 5 different factions into a single story with railroads. It was pretty pointless and only left us with a bad and lackluster campaign full of memes.
At least Bludflag was fun, but still I found it lacking.

i agree with you there retribution was not properly written

but i am keeping my fingers crossed for a explanation cause if they could make DoW2 while soulstorm being canon i don't see why can't make a explanation about BR lore in DoW3

SharKnight

@WarEagle said:

@SharKnight said:
Well to be fair retribution wasnt particularly greatly written. They had to cram 5 different factions into a single story with railroads. It was pretty pointless and only left us with a bad and lackluster campaign full of memes.
At least Bludflag was fun, but still I found it lacking.

i agree with you there retribution was not properly written

but i am keeping my fingers crossed for a explanation cause if they could make DoW2 while soulstorm being canon i don't see why can't make a explanation about BR lore in DoW3

They need to clear out SS a bit.
They could just say like:
Blood Ravens destroyed the Orks HQ but where defeated by the Tau. When the Imperial Guard "or sisters of battle arrived" it was too late, they gathered the bodies, treasures and gene-seed of the fallen blood ravens and gave them to the ones that survived as a token.
Here it would take the Blood Ravens out of the imperium vs Imperium conflict as they never got to lay a finger on the Imperial Guard and Sisters of battle.

You can either just say the Imperium won the campaign but leave it at that, without knowing if it was the SOB or Vance Stubbs.

McNash

If you want more of Abaddon he is featured in Battlefleet Gothic: Armada, same game filter used in DoW2

SharKnight

They even got the same composer right?
Also who voiced their orks?

WoodsGore

Would love to see some other legion come into the fray.