@Xileh said:
I trust the description of GW Codex: Eldar/Craftworlds and there its a helmet.
Blacklibrary is often enough fanfiction.
BL its mostly fanfic these days but I think some of that article its taken from much older codexes and white dwarf publications - MAYBE.
By the way, it looks more like its just the front piece of the helmet that she takes off. And her hair is darker red than that what seems to be from the helmet.
If that picture would show more...
But as it stays, it doesn't invalidade the original description and thus doesn't prove anything.
Cool Artwork though. Where did you find that?
You mean the cosplayer? She uses it as a mask, She also has a deviant art page, check her out.
@Xileh said:
I trust the description of GW Codex: Eldar/Craftworlds and there its a helmet.
Blacklibrary is often enough fanfiction.
BL its mostly fanfic these days but I think some of that article its taken from much older codexes and white dwarf publications - MAYBE.
Ok, i took my Old Codex and looked it up. Codex is from 1999, 3rd Edition i believe.
I quote: 'Banshee-Kampfmaske: Banshees tragen einen speziell modifizierten Helm, der die (...)'
It translates to:
'Banshees-(Battle)Mask: Banshees wear a special modified helmet, which (...)'
I hope this we at least can put this aside now.
By the way, it looks more like its just the front piece of the helmet that she takes off. And her hair is darker red than that what seems to be from the helmet.
If that picture would show more...
But as it stays, it doesn't invalidade the original description and thus doesn't prove anything.
Cool Artwork though. Where did you find that?
You mean the cosplayer? She uses it as a mask, She also has a deviant art page, check her out.
Ok, this has gone on long enough about Macha. You obviously have very strong opinions that you're not going to change. It's also become very subjective. We obviously have different priorities and care about different things. I love the new Macha and don't think it's important that she doesn't look like her DOW1 self. You do, lets agree to disagree.
With regards to this whole evidence thing, you need to realise that you can't just post an image with a caption similar to "look here, this person did this!" and expect people to bend over. Your evidence needs to stand up to criticism, which it doesn't I'm afraid. If we found a lost book by Einstein where he says the moon is made from cheese, would everyone just be expected to believe it? No, because evidence needs to be supported, logical, and needs to make sense, otherwise it can be dismissed without evidence. Ok, your evidence is alright, but there is barely any of it. Your case is still poor. Also, evidence, on something like this, doesn't have to be just images. I could have posted several images contrary to your pictures.
At the end of the day, all the real evidence you have shown is a sketch, which got roughly translated into a DOW game. This however, centred around an exarch, not a regular aspect warrior. And also the sketch appeared to be concept art for a game where unit visuals and lore are frequently broken and different to established fluff. Only the storyline is canon in DOW games. Also, for clarity, leader units forgo helmets int DOW games. As this is a minor character, she needs to be made to look like a banshee, so we know who she is and so she resembles a banshee. So I would argue it is purely for gameplay purposes only. Also, it simply doesn't make sense for EVERY Eldar who wants to become a banshee to need to grow their hair to ridiculous lengths and dye it.
If you disagree with me, that's fine, but this is all fair criticism, to which your evidence does not stand up to.
You are the one taking this in circles sir, I take what you have said and offer a logical, critical counter to it. Then you just repeat yourself. It matters not if you don't agree with me.
Also, this is always going to end in a stalemate, as there is no real hard evidence, as it has never been definitively confirmed by GW, or in any canon or codex. The most we can do is grasp at straws. Therefore there is no point in getting so uptight and ++heresy redacted++ right unpleasant about this, this is supposed to merely be a light hearted discussion. Therefore I shall respectfully be withdrawing from engaging with you in this topic unless your attitude, tone and outlook changes.
@Xileh said:
Here are pictures for you.
The 'hair' is from the helmet.
@Nautiloidor
I think there is no point in discussing this further. I saw that my post with quotes and proves has two disagrees, Lol.
He refuses the evidence. Funny is that i used the same sources as he did. And he claimed i am making things up, but he didn't read all.
If this proves something is that the standard banshee warrior's hair could be part of the mask, but for the exarchs and other high ranking warriors it dont prove a thing.
It also seems the artist didnt do his homework as its typical of new GW illustrators since such design would be very impractal in battle as opposed to a mask that can be easely worn, like this.
Banshee Mask
The banshee mask is worn by the Eldar Howling Banshee Aspect Warriors giving them a fearsome appearance as they charge into the fray. Not merely a piece of armour, the mask releases a keening cry when the Banshee's attack, stunning their foes and leaving them defenceless.
I havent refused evidence because this is the first one that you have actually presented, which can still be argued.
I trust the description of GW Codex: Eldar/Craftworlds and there its a helmet.
Blacklibrary is often enough fanfiction.
By the way, it lopks more like its just the front piece of the helmet that she takes off. And her hair is darker red than that what seems to be from the helmet.
If that picture would show more...
But as it stays, it doesn't invalidade the original description and thus doesn't prove anything.
Cool Artwork though. Where did you find that?
This is also cosplay. They are obviously going to try and make it easy to take off for the comfort and convenience of the actor, and to make the art at recognisable as possible, rather than make it lore friendly.
Also, look at the differences between the hair when she does and doesnt have the mask on.
Ok, this has gone on long enough about Macha. You obviously have very strong opinions that you're not going to change. It's also become very subjective. We obviously have different priorities and care about different things. I love the new Macha and don't think it's important that she doesn't look like her DOW1 self. You do, lets agree to disagree.
With regards to this whole evidence thing, you need to realise that you can't just post an image with a caption similar to "look here, this person did this!" and expect people to bend over. Your evidence needs to stand up to criticism, which it doesn't I'm afraid. If we found a lost book by Einstein where he says the moon is made from cheese, would everyone just be expected to believe it? No, because evidence needs to be supported, logical, and needs to make sense, otherwise it can be dismissed without evidence. Ok, your evidence is alright, but there is barely any of it. Your case is still poor. Also, evidence, on something like this, doesn't have to be just images. I could have posted several images contrary to your pictures.
At the end of the day, all the real evidence you have shown is a sketch, which got roughly translated into a DOW game. This however, centred around an exarch, not a regular aspect warrior. And also the sketch appeared to be concept art for a game where unit visuals and lore are frequently broken and different to established fluff. Only the storyline is canon in DOW games. Also, for clarity, leader units forgo helmets int DOW games. As this is a minor character, she needs to be made to look like a banshee, so we know who she is and so she resembles a banshee. So I would argue it is purely for gameplay purposes only. Also, it simply doesn't make sense for EVERY Eldar who wants to become a banshee to need to grow their hair to ridiculous lengths and dye it.
If you disagree with me, that's fine, but this is all fair criticism, to which your evidence does not stand up to.
You are the one taking this in circles sir, I take what you have said and offer a logical, critical counter to it. Then you just repeat yourself. It matters not if you don't agree with me.
Also, this is always going to end in a stalemate, as there is no real hard evidence, as it has never been definitively confirmed by GW, or in any canon or codex. The most we can do is grasp at straws. Therefore there is no point in getting so uptight and ~heresy redacted~ right unpleasant about this, this is supposed to merely be a light hearted discussion. Therefore I shall respectfully be withdrawing from engaging with you in this topic unless your attitude, tone and outlook changes.
You are the one that have stretched it this long, I already presented my points with evidence and professional art theory, some of those backed by people with over 30 years experience including the person that designed the entire eldar range. Your excuses and examples go from cringeworthy, ridiculous to necity. This isnt either a competition to see who is wrong and who is right, yet you seem to be treating it as such.
Again you post opinions as if they had facts and proof behind them but all I see are just mere opinins, You said you could back it up with pictures but you didnt and havent done so. Which means discussing with you its fruitless and pointless - like the no no donkey from family guy for example since you are using vulgar comparisions. I gave you the benefit of the doubt but I guess other users on this forums where right.
Also did you even bothered to read the conversation that we had about the eldar banshees? I think not and this shows even more your lack of preparation when it comes to discussing.
Ok, this has gone on long enough about Macha. You obviously have very strong opinions that you're not going to change. It's also become very subjective. We obviously have different priorities and care about different things. I love the new Macha and don't think it's important that she doesn't look like her DOW1 self. You do, lets agree to disagree.
With regards to this whole evidence thing, you need to realise that you can't just post an image with a caption similar to "look here, this person did this!" and expect people to bend over. Your evidence needs to stand up to criticism, which it doesn't I'm afraid. If we found a lost book by Einstein where he says the moon is made from cheese, would everyone just be expected to believe it? No, because evidence needs to be supported, logical, and needs to make sense, otherwise it can be dismissed without evidence. Ok, your evidence is alright, but there is barely any of it. Your case is still poor. Also, evidence, on something like this, doesn't have to be just images. I could have posted several images contrary to your pictures.
At the end of the day, all the real evidence you have shown is a sketch, which got roughly translated into a DOW game. This however, centred around an exarch, not a regular aspect warrior. And also the sketch appeared to be concept art for a game where unit visuals and lore are frequently broken and different to established fluff. Only the storyline is canon in DOW games. Also, for clarity, leader units forgo helmets int DOW games. As this is a minor character, she needs to be made to look like a banshee, so we know who she is and so she resembles a banshee. So I would argue it is purely for gameplay purposes only. Also, it simply doesn't make sense for EVERY Eldar who wants to become a banshee to need to grow their hair to ridiculous lengths and dye it.
If you disagree with me, that's fine, but this is all fair criticism, to which your evidence does not stand up to.
You are the one taking this in circles sir, I take what you have said and offer a logical, critical counter to it. Then you just repeat yourself. It matters not if you don't agree with me.
Also, this is always going to end in a stalemate, as there is no real hard evidence, as it has never been definitively confirmed by GW, or in any canon or codex. The most we can do is grasp at straws. Therefore there is no point in getting so uptight and ~heresy redacted~ right unpleasant about this, this is supposed to merely be a light hearted discussion. Therefore I shall respectfully be withdrawing from engaging with you in this topic unless your attitude, tone and outlook changes.
You are the one that have stretched it this long, I already presented my points with evidence and professional art theory, some of those backed by people with over 30 years experience including the person that designed the entire eldar range. Your excuses and examples go from cringeworthy, ridiculous to necity. This isnt either a competition to see who is wrong and who is right, yet you seem to be treating it as such.
Again you post opinions as if they had facts and proof behind them but all I see are just mere opinins, You said you could back it up with pictures but you didnt and havent done so. Which means discussing with you its fruitless and pointless - like the no no donkey from family guy for example since you are using vulgar comparisions. I gave you the benefit of the doubt but I guess other users on this forums where right.
Also did you even bothered to read the conversation that we had about the eldar banshees? I think not and this shows even more your lack of preparation when it comes to discussing.
All everyone has are opinions - including you. Please stop this way of attacking other users for disagreeing with you. The theory of recognisable silhouettes is a principle in art, sure, but it isn't something that every character has to abide by until that character is retired. That is not how art theory works, sorry.
All everyone has are opinions - including you. Please stop this way of attacking other users for disagreeing with you. The theory of recognisable silhouettes is a principle in art, sure, but it isn't something that every character has to abide by until that character is retired. That is not how art theory works, sorry.
Pointing out lack of an actual argument its attacking now? Apparently it is according to you if it happens to have the same way of thinking that you do, You have been really biased on this subject on multiple threads already, specially when it comes towards me. I am sorry but I disagree with your points and opinions as they dont have something solid to back on I already backed mines and have yet to see someone doing an actual thread proving otherwise. Until then, there is nothing left to discuss.
@Nautiloidor said:
Wow, you really dont get it do you? You're right, I have stretched this out too long. Farewell.
I thought you had to be over 18+ to post in this forums.
All everyone has are opinions - including you. Please stop this way of attacking other users for disagreeing with you. The theory of recognisable silhouettes is a principle in art, sure, but it isn't something that every character has to abide by until that character is retired. That is not how art theory works, sorry.
Pointing out lack of an actual argument its attacking now? Apparently it is according to you if it happens to have the same way of thinking that you do, You have been really biased on this subject on multiple threads already, specially when it comes towards me. I am sorry but I disagree with your points and opinions as they dont have something solid to back on I already backed mines and have yet to see someone doing an actual thread proving otherwise. Until then, there is nothing left to discuss.
Pointing out a lack of an actual argument is not the only thing you did.
I am a moderator. If you feel I have been biased towards you, please escalate it to another volunteer staffer or a Relic account. If a moderator has been directing their attentions to you, it is usually because you have been walking towards the place where the forum rules end.
You decide that the other posters' evidence is irrelevant, but you don't like it when your own evidence is dismissed. You consider your views factual because you have supported them with theory - a good idea in principle - but you tear down the other posters' arguments and person because you consider their theories incorrect.
This thread has gone rapidly downhill and you share responsibility here. Nautiloidor has not acted well either (as the thread as gone on) which is why this thread is now going to be locked. Please bear in mind that you need to afford everyone on this forum respect for their opinions even if you disagree. Otherwise you get threads like this where your own opinions aren't respected.
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Comments
SharKnight
BL its mostly fanfic these days but I think some of that article its taken from much older codexes and white dwarf publications - MAYBE.
You mean the cosplayer? She uses it as a mask, She also has a deviant art page, check her out.
Xileh
Ok, i took my Old Codex and looked it up. Codex is from 1999, 3rd Edition i believe.
I quote: 'Banshee-Kampfmaske: Banshees tragen einen speziell modifizierten Helm, der die (...)'
It translates to:
'Banshees-(Battle)Mask: Banshees wear a special modified helmet, which (...)'
I hope this we at least can put this aside now.
Cool stuff.
Nautiloidor
Ok, this has gone on long enough about Macha. You obviously have very strong opinions that you're not going to change. It's also become very subjective. We obviously have different priorities and care about different things. I love the new Macha and don't think it's important that she doesn't look like her DOW1 self. You do, lets agree to disagree.
With regards to this whole evidence thing, you need to realise that you can't just post an image with a caption similar to "look here, this person did this!" and expect people to bend over. Your evidence needs to stand up to criticism, which it doesn't I'm afraid. If we found a lost book by Einstein where he says the moon is made from cheese, would everyone just be expected to believe it? No, because evidence needs to be supported, logical, and needs to make sense, otherwise it can be dismissed without evidence. Ok, your evidence is alright, but there is barely any of it. Your case is still poor. Also, evidence, on something like this, doesn't have to be just images. I could have posted several images contrary to your pictures.
At the end of the day, all the real evidence you have shown is a sketch, which got roughly translated into a DOW game. This however, centred around an exarch, not a regular aspect warrior. And also the sketch appeared to be concept art for a game where unit visuals and lore are frequently broken and different to established fluff. Only the storyline is canon in DOW games. Also, for clarity, leader units forgo helmets int DOW games. As this is a minor character, she needs to be made to look like a banshee, so we know who she is and so she resembles a banshee. So I would argue it is purely for gameplay purposes only. Also, it simply doesn't make sense for EVERY Eldar who wants to become a banshee to need to grow their hair to ridiculous lengths and dye it.
If you disagree with me, that's fine, but this is all fair criticism, to which your evidence does not stand up to.
You are the one taking this in circles sir, I take what you have said and offer a logical, critical counter to it. Then you just repeat yourself. It matters not if you don't agree with me.
Also, this is always going to end in a stalemate, as there is no real hard evidence, as it has never been definitively confirmed by GW, or in any canon or codex. The most we can do is grasp at straws. Therefore there is no point in getting so uptight and ++heresy redacted++ right unpleasant about this, this is supposed to merely be a light hearted discussion. Therefore I shall respectfully be withdrawing from engaging with you in this topic unless your attitude, tone and outlook changes.
Nautiloidor
Also, quick google image search will turn up a lot of stuff like this
There is some cool stuff.
Nautiloidor
This is also cosplay. They are obviously going to try and make it easy to take off for the comfort and convenience of the actor, and to make the art at recognisable as possible, rather than make it lore friendly.
Also, look at the differences between the hair when she does and doesnt have the mask on.
narga-lifestream.deviantart.com/art/Howling-Banshee-To-the-death-633090039
narga-lifestream.deviantart.com/art/Howling-Banshee-In-darkness-I-shall-be-light-632099034
I wonder how she gets the wig to stand up like that, as it's shown to not be attached to her cosplay mask. Sounds like dirty Xenos magics to me.
SharKnight
You are the one that have stretched it this long, I already presented my points with evidence and professional art theory, some of those backed by people with over 30 years experience including the person that designed the entire eldar range. Your excuses and examples go from cringeworthy, ridiculous to necity. This isnt either a competition to see who is wrong and who is right, yet you seem to be treating it as such.
Again you post opinions as if they had facts and proof behind them but all I see are just mere opinins, You said you could back it up with pictures but you didnt and havent done so. Which means discussing with you its fruitless and pointless - like the no no donkey from family guy for example since you are using vulgar comparisions. I gave you the benefit of the doubt but I guess other users on this forums where right.
Also did you even bothered to read the conversation that we had about the eldar banshees? I think not and this shows even more your lack of preparation when it comes to discussing.
Nautiloidor
@SharKnight
Wow, you really dont get it do you? You're right, I have stretched this out too long. Farewell.
Gorb
All everyone has are opinions - including you. Please stop this way of attacking other users for disagreeing with you. The theory of recognisable silhouettes is a principle in art, sure, but it isn't something that every character has to abide by until that character is retired. That is not how art theory works, sorry.
SharKnight
Pointing out lack of an actual argument its attacking now? Apparently it is according to you if it happens to have the same way of thinking that you do, You have been really biased on this subject on multiple threads already, specially when it comes towards me. I am sorry but I disagree with your points and opinions as they dont have something solid to back on I already backed mines and have yet to see someone doing an actual thread proving otherwise. Until then, there is nothing left to discuss.
I thought you had to be over 18+ to post in this forums.
Gorb
Pointing out a lack of an actual argument is not the only thing you did.
I am a moderator. If you feel I have been biased towards you, please escalate it to another volunteer staffer or a Relic account. If a moderator has been directing their attentions to you, it is usually because you have been walking towards the place where the forum rules end.
You decide that the other posters' evidence is irrelevant, but you don't like it when your own evidence is dismissed. You consider your views factual because you have supported them with theory - a good idea in principle - but you tear down the other posters' arguments and person because you consider their theories incorrect.
This thread has gone rapidly downhill and you share responsibility here. Nautiloidor has not acted well either (as the thread as gone on) which is why this thread is now going to be locked. Please bear in mind that you need to afford everyone on this forum respect for their opinions even if you disagree. Otherwise you get threads like this where your own opinions aren't respected.