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Features Removed vs Features Introduced
LadderGoat
OK, so I know I seem quite flamey and negative here, but recently I posted in a forum post with all of my concerns and notice that so many things seem to be stripped out of the game.
I would be interested to know other peoples input regarding my feedback below (sorry, I got a bit ragey/sarcastic at times)
My points and questions are,
Q) In what way do you feel DOW3 is an advancement/evolution from the previous games (as you can tell from my list below I feel it's a step backwards)
Q) Which new features have been introduced that weren't in the previous games?
Q) What does this game have to offer for DOW2 fans in particular? (remember this game is supposed to cater for, and unify, DOW1 & 2 fans - I don't think even the hero's behave like the Dawn of War 2 Commander Units)
My concerns are:-
1) A Serious vibe to the graphics - to be cliche... "Grimdark" (swinging as far away from the cartoony graphics as humanly possible)
2) A vast improvement in voice acting and dialogue in general
3) The return of Paul Dobson as the voice actor for Gabriel
4) Less childish animation (Leaping Mobalos, Jumping/Floating Jonah, skipping Space Marines and Hot Rod Solaria)
5) Sync Kills
6) A Morale System
7) A Supression system
8) Squad Upgrades for dynamic adjustments whilst in battle
9) Unit preservation incentives
10) Leveling system for squads
11) Kill counters for units
12) A retreat mechanic
13) Relic Points
14) Building variety like DOW1 (this seems like a minimised CoH style base building)
15) Environmental impact - (similar to frozen lakes in CoH etc)
16) Line of Sight - like in CoH2 - often used for ambushes
17) Less Rock, Paper, Scissors (more soft counters)
18) More value to line units - (nearly all videos I've seen is pretty much just Solaria and Gabriel gibbing entire armies)
19) Over-the-top particle effects
20) Less Gabriel Mobalos (Hero's really do seem to play like League of Legend Champions from what I can see)
21) A proper cover system like in DOW2 (encouraging some really interesting tactical movement rather than A-move blobs and ability spam)
22) Less simplified capture points (not a massive fan of the fact each capture point seems the same - strips away reasons to press/battle for particular resource points)
23) More Global abilities and an "Ability resource" much like the red resource in DOW2 (all I've seen so far is a nuke which is just on a timer so far?)
24) Still lacks the larger scale battles like in DOW1 but doesn't have the precision of DOW2 battle either
25) Dynamic Squad Movement so that each unit doesn't move around like a robot
26) A more sensible unit size scaling, why are hero units like Gabriel and Jonah now so huge?
27) No Power generators now turns "power bashing" into a simple decap of a resource point.
28) The ability to build turrets/mines like in DOW1 & 2
29) I don't think (?) every Space Marine unit in a squad is normally fully equipped with plasma guns in a squad with that upgrade.
30) Garrison-able structures
31) Random moments in the game has been completely gutted/stripped from the game thus nullifying those exciting moments of uncertainty.
32) Nukes seem capable of absolutely gibbing entire armies with ease (even making the Wraith Knight float defenselessly, or one-shooting HQ) how do you recover from that?
33) 100% accuracy results in dull firefights without a real need to micro units (moving units closer to improve accuracy, no longer being able to supress units, blob vs blob encouraged etc)
34) Many line units (even more specifically Tactical Space Marines or precious Eldar) are considered expendable in this game
35) Lack of turrets and defensive structures will encourage base rushing and cheese and furthermore the cheese will be bland unit spamming, at least turret rushes etc are interesting and creative.
36) Not only is the cover system truly awful, it doesn't even bother with tiers of cover (ie heavy, light, negative)
37) Gliding/skiing Wraith Knight.... WEEEEE!
38) Nukes are available at Tier 3 on a timer and 250 power...nothing else? I think there should be a building that enables nukes (think Temple of Nod for Nod's nuke in C&C etc etc) to give people a chance to nullify the threat.
39) Blobbing looks to be encouraged in this game.
40) Even on the few squads you can actually purchase upgrades for, there is much less variety than before (no more plasma devastators, no more Missile Launcher tacs,
No more Multi-Melta or Assault Cannon or Hellfire Dread seen so far)
41) DOW3 has stripped out more features than it has added (if it's added anything new) I would love for this to have been the "next step" in the series and to have continued Relic's tradition of evolution/innovation in the RTS genre
Sorry if there are any repeats - I don't thiiiink there are!
Thanks in advance all!
Comments
Bersercker
Agreed, pretty much. The only new "feature" i've seen so far is super powerful moba-like heroes, since heroes in dow 1 & dow2 were never able to kill half the opposing army with a few abilities, like these knights & wraithknights do.
Oh and also that fog thingy from starcraft 2 that blocks line of sight but doesnt block movement.
Auric
There are some good points in here, and there are some concerns here I think can be addressed. For the most part though, I think unfortunately that the game Relic is making is not the game you want to play. Anyway, I'm going to go down the list and let you know what I think about your concerns.
1) This is a preference thing. I personally feel that the grimdark of 40k is not about the colour palette. There are many colourful variations of every 40k race, barring the necrons and the SOB. At any rate, Relic are not going to change the entire graphical look of the game, we're past that point I believe.
2)I like the voice acting we have heard so far. I've never been able to take 40k seriously, and I think having Gabriel chewing on the scenery is great. I've enjoyed Gabriel, Solaria and Servitors. The little I have heard from the rest of the marines sounds good to me as well.
3) This feeds in to the point above. I think if Relic could get Paul, they would have though. This seems unlikely to happen.
4) Is jumping childish? I feel Relic have gone overboard with their "clarity", but I think childish is the wrong word. At any rate, I could get behind toning down some of the animations. A compromise can be made between making the abilities in use obvious without having everyone doing a flip. Having said this, I am worried that we are past the point of no return with this as well. We will see.
5) I wish these stayed in the game as well, but I know Relic had their reasons for taking them out. Maybe 100% sync kills between certain elite units would have been good? If a player knows it will happen, they can plan ahead. At any rate, these are out, unlikely to be back in.
6)DOW2 ditched morale, so this would be something returning from DOW1. Haven't seen any in the game play yet, so it is likely out. Would like it to be in, as retreat is also out, and I feel it was a better mechanic than retreat could ever hope to be in a 40k game.
7)Suppression is in, heavy bolter devs at the least can do it. It has simply been toned down from DOW2 so units can escape/push through it. Will talk about this more when we get to retreat.
8)I believe a couple of these are still present, such as the tacs and the land speeder. I guess Relic are pushing for more specialised unit roles. This fits orks and eldar very well, but obviously doesn't fit in the case of marines, which is why we have seen a couple of variations of the same unit, and the aforementioned examples of units that can swap weapons. Haven't seen enough eldar (or ANY orks) so we don't know if they will have any units that can swap weapons. I think the intent here is for you to scout out your opponent and build the right units, making unit selection more important.
9)There is always the standard incentive. If a unit is destroyed, it is not destroying the enemy, and so has cost you resources for less gain. Elite units look to have quite a lengthy cool down on being called back in after they die, so that's a good incentive to keep them around.
10) Relic have said elites will have levels, as well as extra abilities/upgrades as they level. Line units are not intended to be the "stars of the show", so they will not.
11) This would be nice, though hardly necessary. Can't really argue against it, would be nice to have. Don't think units had kill counters in dow1 or 2 though.
12) I believe retreat was in DOW2 to help units get out of positions where they were dead meat. Being suppressed would have been a death sentence in DOW2 without retreat. Now that suppression has had it's effects lessened, and losing a unit isn't as big a deal as it is in DOW2, I don't feel retreat is necessary. You can always manually retreat by walking backwards (you coward).
13) This would be nice. Maybe if you hold relic points you gain elite points at a faster rate, letting you push out elites faster and kill your opponent?
14) Could you explain why you want this? I don't see a problem with consolidating building roles. More is not always better, but I can be talked around.
15) This would be cool, could still be in, as we haven't seen any maps except for the ice/lava one, which did have collapsing sections...
16) This looks to be in. There appeared to be vertical line of sight limitations, eg. if a unit is at the top of a hill, you can't see it, but it can see you. There is also the brush like invisible cover, which allows units without infiltration capability to see out while enemies cannot see in. This could be usable for ambushing.
17) Could you explain why you want this? I think units should have clearly defined roles. Maybe a couple of swiss army knife soft counter units, but not too many, it makes units very samey, don't you think?
18) Remember that these videos you have seen are demonstrations on what looks to be a pretty simply AI. The eldar units stand there waiting to be killed. Very similar things happened to enemies that got in my way in DOW2, once I had a few levels on my heroes that is. I'm sure a game between 2 competent players will see line units playing a much more vital role, particularly early game where there are less elites around.
19) I agree to an extent. Some of the marine stuff is a bit flashy...but eldar stuff should be shiney.
20) I think this refers back to 4) a bit. A MOBA hero essentially behaves like an RTS unit really. Maybe this came to your mind because of the first demo mission where they showed Gabriel jumping about on his own? I can agree with toning down some animations, but apart from that, I don't really think this is a valid concern.
Auric
21)DOW2's cover system will not work in this game. Do you really have time to put every single unit behind a wall? DOW2's cover system also fell apart at some point during tier 2 (sometimes tier 1, depending on commanders), as cover was crushed by all the tanks/big guys stomping around. Depending on how cover is placed (is it buildable, is it in the same place everytime you play? don't really know), there is still a chance you will be able to take advantage of it. We have to wait and see.
22) I'm relying on @BlessedSpartan here, but when he played last week, he mentioned that capture points were not all the same, the modules are set (eg one had 3 power points, while another had 2 req 1 power etc). This means some points will be more important than others, depending on what resource you or your opponent needs.
23) These seem to be linked to the race you are playing and the elites you pick. As an example, space marines have the 'drop pod' and 'plant the standard' abilities. The first is obvious, the second sounds like it is for helping you hold an area. I wonder what the standard looks like, space marines do love their flags. They also mentioned that one of the benefits of taking gabriel is that your units heal around drop pods, perhaps other elites will give different bonuses.
24) Are the battles really that much smaller than DOW1? They are going to be less precise than DOW2 simply by virtue of having many more units on the field to worry about...some guys are gonna die. I'm sure the answer will become obvious as more game play footage is released.
25) I too would prefer this, if they were able to prevent units from getting split up while doing it. Nothing worse than watching your banshees try to get back together after splitting due to asynchronous movement, and then dying for the trouble. It looks like Relic have tried to help with this by giving different members a different movement animation as they move, but I agree for the most part, units are definitely more robotic in this than in DOW2.
26) Completely agree here. I can accept Gabriel being a bit bigger, but don't get Jonah. The blue armour and the cherub/staff should be more than enough. It's particularly odd, as Macha appears to be the same size as her friends. I don't see why this couldn't be changed, and hope relic does listen and changes it.
27) I believe you can still bash power. Simply destroy your opponent's listening post and power modules, and then run away! Power bashed!
28) Scouts can build minefields for the marines, do not know if eldar and orks have an equivalent. Turrets look to be relegated to listening posts. I guess a heavy bolter team is intended to be like a mobile turret?
29) You would be correct. However, Marines also do not come in squads of 3/4, nor do all of the marines in a devastator squad carry heavy bolters, and the sergeant DEFINITELY doesn't. All of the dawn of war games play a little fast and loose with the lore (9 man marine squads in dow1 anyone? why did they do that?), but ultimately, do small things like this matter that much?
30) Heavy cover essentially does this.
31) I guess they have. Removing the random moments has it's merits, as does keeping them. Relic have elected to remove them. Sorry.
32) If you stand in them, sure. If you're wicked good, you can dodge the beam! Another alternative for the unscrupulous commander is to throw cheap units in to it to slow it down while the more important troops get away...
33) There will be plenty of needs to micro your units if a bundle of grenades/an artillery barrage/a screaming horde of orks is about to land on them. A unit having 100% accuracy does not also necessarily mean they do the same damage at all ranges.
34) Relatively expendable, compared to DOW2 where losing a unit was a disaster. Bear in mind this also meant losing an ork shoota squad or a tyranid warrior squad was also quite a bad loss, despite these units being relatively numerous in the lore.
35) Will it? That's quite the assumption having seen no multiplayer game play. There are defensive structures in many other rts games, but base rushing still exists in those. Wait and see on this one.
36) I'm not sure if this is necessarily true. I have heard Relic staff refer to the cover we have seen as "Heavy" cover, leaving the possibility for different types open. I wouldn't even call the cover we have 'awful'. It's very similar to the cover in DOW1 really, it just removes damage completely instead of mitigating it. That is until you destroy the cover or counter it with melee/abilities.
37)I love the Wraithknight. Eldar war constructs are meant to be agile, and the wraithknight also has a jump pack. It's lore friendly and it looks pretty cool if you ask me.
38) This is a balance concern and could easily be changed to make nukes a more costly investment. We have only seen one nuke as well.
39)I respectfully disagree. Blobbing seems like an incredibly bad idea so far against space marines. Blob up = get squashed by solaria/whirlwind rockets/assault marines in the middle of your blob. I hope other armies will have similar answers to the blob.
40) This seems to return to a point made earlier. The intent is that units are not as adaptable as they were. Each unit has a role, and it will fulfil that role. Scout your opponent's forces, build the right units, use them. Good or bad, it seems likely this is the direction of the game.
41)Yes, DOW3 has stripped out some mechanics. For me, it was right to remove some of the mechanics (retreat, hardcore suppression), while others are ones I hoped they would keep (morale, some sync kills). What I think is important to remember is that more mechanics does not necessarily equal a better game. If you have too many mechanics to keep track of while controlling a large army, things can quickly devolve in to a big mess. In answer to your main question, yes, I think more mechanics have been removed from DOW3 than have been added, but I don't think it's such a bad thing.
Now that I've spoken on your points, I'll answer the questions you have put in the OP:
Q1) I don't think this game is an evolution. I think it is intended to mix DOW1&2 together to create a game that caters to fans of both. I guess the 'evolution' would be trying to put 2 very different systems together. I don't think any of us know if they have succeeded yet, though some will insist they do know.
Q2) Elite units are a new feature, like it or not. Invisible cover is a new feature to the series, as is vertical restrictions on line of sight. While this one is reaching a little more, skimmers' ability to passively maneuvre across all terrain on the field, and to strafe around enemy units is also new.
Q3) I think elite units are meant to do this. I think the 'pick 3 elites' idea is meant to create a similar feeling to the commanders and their respective global call in's in DOW2, but this time, you can pick whatever combo you like to create your own army. The ability of elites to level up and supposedly gain new abilities as they do so may also mimic the wargear choices you could make for your commander in DOW2. I speculate that the army painter will also be similar to the DOW2 painter rather than DOW1 as well, which would give the ability to personalise your force like you could in DOW2 (to a smaller extent I admit, but it was there).
BlessedSpartan
@Auric clap clap
I'm not home otherwise id respond with more nut let me say this.
In hindsight after deconstructing Dow 2 there are a lot of game play mechanics that don't work well and we're more to compensate for poor design desiciona.
DOW 3 from what I've played seems better than the Dow 1 and 2 demo though dow2 is a totally different game.
in Dow 3 battles are and will be larger than Dow 1 battles. I struggled to micro the 12 squads I has and I was only at 120/200 pop cap.
@Creature to anewer your question I'm not sure if upkeep was a thing or not I'm sorry I didn't check for it.
to answer your Dow 2 fan question however the biggish issue I personally had was unit pathing and responsiveness. This was totally addressed you can still do what you did in Dow 2 but you're experience will be smoother. For other questions please refer to my thread about EGX.
I like your questions though, if I was a Dev at relic I'd if be so active on these forums!
LadderGoat
Thanks Auric and BlessedSpartan for your responses, very comprehensive too so I really appreciate that - it's good to see the thought process of someone with differing viewpoints to mine.
I think what I am trying to express is that the critiques I bring up are reasons that lots of people are getting a bit irate because they really don't recognise this as a Dawn of War game anymore because of all the stripped out mechanics, if you get me?
To answer your questions with regards to why I wanted the following points:-
14) Building variety like DOW1 (this seems like a minimised CoH style base building)
I am a huge fan of both DOW1 & 2, I remember being disappointed when hearing that DOW2 was removing base building, I did get over it but I know that I would have loved a proper base to build again and with DOW3 there was hope for people to be able to do that again. My concern is, that base building for the different races are going to be largely the same, an HQ, a Barracks and a Vehicle Platform but just with different skins.
What was great about basebuilding in DOW1 was there were race specific buildings and lots of different building orders people could take, it feels like DOW3 is trying to cater for both DOW1 AND DOW2 fans but is failing to fully hit the mark with either from what I can tell.
17) Less Rock, Paper, Scissors (more soft counters)
I think soft counters makes the game more diverse, if there is a vibe of A counters B, B counters C, C counters A, then it is pigeon holing units into a specific role and things start getting a bit bland. I liked the fact that Tactical Marines could get Missile Launchers, you could get Auto-Cannon Havocs/Imp G Heavy Weapons Team. It gives that unit use beyond a specifically dedicated role.
I remember this was used for that Lord of the Rings game - fantastic game! However in that game there was much more variety in the armies, lots more races, lots more building choices etc. It seems a dated system now and just makes line units feel even more expendable.
I hope that helps clear my views up
Thanks again
BlessedSpartan
Soft counters are in the game so don't worry it's more like Dow 2 in terms of soft and hard counters.
As an example tacs with plasma guns do soft damage to tanks while laz cannons wreck it.so at least that's a thing
I think Base building will be varied. they are obviously working very hard which I'd why we haven't been given a public or closed test. I hope we see one soon
Zimbo123
Hope we get to play a test soon too @BlessedSpartan , it's fine to see video footage, but as you probably know, it's another thing to actually play it.
Very well said @Auric and @BlessedSpartan , I think the points you have laid out are very comprehensive and valid.
Bersercker
Wow, i must have missed that one. If this happens not in a match but between matches (as in wraith kinght gets level 2 after having killed 1000 space marines) then it might be ok, there was a similar system in COHO with elite units. If not, well... Thats kinda too moba-esque for my liking. Like imagine you are playing a 3v3 and your teammate yells at you "stop feeding mortred banshee exarch, she gets an ultimate that kills any unit in one hit on level 21".
Actually the number of squads in the videos shown so far doesnt seem that much different from coh2, which had cover similar to dow2 but better. So not sure that was the main reason they removed directional cover. Ofc maybe i'm wrong and that just what the players in the videos used. And i'm too lazy to find and write down the popcaps of some infantry and vehicles and compare them to coh2.
Though i may do just that some time in the future. 
If i'm not mistaken, the other type of cover is this "fog" thing. Was in some other interview methinks.
Edit: didnt notice this
Ok, so if an average infantry squad popcap is ~ 10, thats less than coh2 has. Like grenadiers have 7 popcap if i'm not mistaken, but the max popcap is 100 not 200.
Though not that big of a difference. Watched a 2v2 coh2 tourney vod recently and an american player had about 5 rifleman squads, captain squad, lieutenant squad, 3 rear echelon and 2 or 3 vehicles by mid game, not sure about support weapons. I imagine vehicles will take much more popcap than infantry in dow3, same as in coh2. And ofcourse, as there doesnt seem to be much incentive to preserve squads and no retreat, in multiplayer you'll likely trade them pretty often for enemy squads, so not sure that 200 popcap would even be reachable most of the time.
Hyrican
They might have already given a reason as to why there is no extensive cover mechanic like in dow 2 or coh. They said something in an early interview that they wanted big all out epic battles (don't remember the ecaxt phrasing) that's why unit preservation isn't a thing in DoW 3 and i suspect that hiding behind cover also confronts with their idea of these epic battles.
Personally i did not like this new cover too much .. i'm not a fan of these big blue bubbles on a visual level, they do look out of place and felt more like an annoyance than an actually interessting mechanic. They were taken care of relatively fast by placing a barrage of Ironstorm Missiles on top of it or sending some assault marines in and they never really seemed worth the time to capture/recapture them. I preffered both the cover from DoW 1 and DoW 2. By not needing to be captured first the cover allowed for faster gamplay and just felt more useful overall.
But i guess the visual look of the cover is a matter of taste and the feel of the gamplay implications should be taken with a taken with a gain of salt as well. Standing in line for a couple of hours and having only 30 minutes to soak everthing in while beeing very excited and trying to soak everthing doesn't offer the best premise for a reliable source of information. My impression of this new cover may very well change if i get the chance to play the game some more in a less stressfull environment
But thats the impression i got after 30 min of gamplay and from the footage we've seen so far.
Edit: At this point i would prefer some cover like in DoW 1 that offers only defense bonus but is permanent and doesn't need to be captured before use and i would like to see some other points of interessest instead of those bubbles like relic points that are worth taking.
BlessedSpartan
for cover I adore the way creative assembly do it god halo wars 2 with slots I think that works very well for units with large forces that way you know they are in cover. I think Dow 2 cover system was a bit iffy sometimes you'd expect the units to be in cover but one member is standing out side of it and thus dies.
it was a pain. I think the shield bubble is fine if that is Elder specific I hope not all cover looks like that. Dow 1 hand a nice one too. but maybe it was hard to see too. who knows waiting for those video docs
one thing I didn't see is a relic though they have kept the tier system
Kat_RE
Hey! Just to clarify, Elite progression isn't something that we've gone into detail on, but I did just want to pop in here to say that progression will occur between matches, not during the game. Don't worry about a level 10 Solaria wrecking a level 1 Solaria. We'll have more to share on this soon!
MrBenis
Q) In what way do you feel DOW3 is an advancement/evolution from the previous games (as you can tell from my list below I feel it's a step backwards)
Well you say it is a step backwards.. from DoW2 to DoW1.5 would be somewhat accurate yes. I think that from what I've seen it feels more like the kind of RTS I enjoy. I really did not like DoW2's skirmish mode, it represented a shift towards the MOBA scene everyone talks about. I find it hard to articulate what I dislike about DoW2 in a brief manner because I've never played any RTS like it, I just don't like it for many reasons that aren't really relevant in this discussion. We've seen so little gameplay from DoW3 so far its hard to comment on where it has been evolving and if the evolution was in the direction of a super game or an inferior game. There are some things I'm not that fascinated by like Skateboard Wraithknights but they're minor concerns compared to my loathing of whackamole resource gameplay from DoW2.
Q) Which new features have been introduced that weren't in the previous games?
Well from what we've seen so far other than a couple of new units.. this title has an entire race less than the previous launch titles, we have no impression of pvp balance and we don't know very much about how the campaign will break down. Really the only things I can say about the game for sure boil down to spiffier graphics. I like spiffy graphics.
Q) What does this game have to offer for DOW2 fans in particular? (remember this game is supposed to cater for, and unify, DOW1 & 2 fans - I don't think even the hero's behave like the Dawn of War 2 Commander Units)
As someone mentioned in another thread each DOW game has so far trended towards being wildly different to the previous game in the series. I think of it like this: C&C Renegade is to C&C what DOW2 is to DoW1. They share a similar theme and some vague mechanical exchanges but they're basically completely different games that function differently and obey different design laws. As I'm not a DOW2 fan personally I cannot comment on the matter that much so I won't. Perhaps I could say I like the upgrade system from DoW2 for the units and commander but aside from that I have nothing else to add.
6) A Morale System
7) A Supression system
9) Unit preservation incentives
12) A retreat mechanic
These are really all kind of the same thing. The morale system affects if you get suppressed and being suppressed means you are much weaker in a fight which might cause you to retreat. But DOW2s getoutofjail retreat mechanic was just straight up bad. Forcing units which hit 0 morale to retreat could be a thing definitely but that retreat should only be a short distance and probably have a quick recovery time, thus you can use dynamic weapon types to force a terrain advantage on enemies by say breaking the morale on a group of sluggaboyz and having them retreat down around a hill so you can keep shooting them while they have to run back up to re-engage in melee. Simple things like that, a similar system you can find in various TotalWar titles. Retreating units don't necessarily run completely off field, only far enough to get some morale back.
You did repeat yourself quite a bit there. I somewhat agree on the point of entire squads of tacticals with plasma rifles. While cool it would be thematically more appropriate for DarkAngels rather than ThievingMagpies. It's a really minor issue to talk about thematical correctness though, the bigger issues with plasma rifles is their ability to gib MC's and tanks if they get good shots off. The whole overheating plasmaguns issue probably needs tightening too so that they overheat much earlier and their power is limited by engagement time.
Just perhaps the most persistent issue I've had with DOW over the years is the unit HP pools which permits certain weak enemies to be total sponges in combat. Sluggaboyz should get chopped up by ranged fire, they need to be pressed forward in big waves to be effective. Banshees should absolutely wreck any light infantry they encounter (remember fellas they only get S3 in the TT they have a 33% chance to wound a space marine) but be significantly less effective against tanks or large monstrous creatures. By the same token a S10 wraithlord for example should 1-shot most infantry models it encounters, with only misses accounting for swings that don't kill. Against vehicles the Wraithlord should do very heavy amounts of damage.
I really liked it when DOW2 was super fast and deadly, when they started increasing the time to kill on all units it really dragged the game down for me because you could start to see how the actual mechanical game design of units and how they counter each other just wasn't solid enough. 1-shotting wraithlords SHOULD be a thing, historically they've always felt very weak for me and I just use prism cannons and falcons to cover my bases instead.
Bersercker
Ah, thanks! I was worried there for a moment.
Heldentod
The inital list was a little wonky but with his questions the OT nailed the issues. This game lost many mechanics I very much enjoyed while adding none to make up for it. So far I can hardly see see any good reason why this game would be divers and interesting in MP when compared to the CoH series or DoW II. I really don't like repetitive games...
Ellie
You really don't like repetitive games, which is why you play the coh series and dow 2? Nice. Auric's response is actually the one that nailed the 'issues.'
Heldentod
Compared to other RTS games CoH has such a variety in terms of factions, doctrines, units and mechanics that every battle can be different....
Auric isn't entirely wrong but he avoided the core issue by stating a personal preference. Why don't you anwser the questions instead of giving a snarky reply. What exactly does DoW III have to offer?
Gorb
Two less expansion packs and years less of patches than CoH as a comparison. It's always unfair, I feel, contrasting games like that.
Also, I think if people don't like what they see of DoW III, it doesn't matter what positive traits are listed. People like to stick to their preferences. Asking people to list the offerings of DoW III suggests they haven't been listed before.
Heldentod
Fair enough, but I doubt they'll add mechanics with the expansions that will inevitably follow. Gameplay-wise I honestly can't think of much beside the elite system where you can combine 3 different hero units. But is that enough to make this game stand out, to make it unique? The degree of asymmetry between the factions isn't all that high either. Sure, they increased clarity but IMO the previous games weren't really lacking in that regard.
Raindrop
The only removed feature I miss are squad leader upgrades. It was a unique thing compared to the Coh series.
Even if understand that squad preservation is less important. Relic could have added it as an upgrade that adds one squad leader with a diffrent look but same stats as all the other sqaud members which can be normaly reinforced.
Gorb
DoW games frequently add things in expansions - some mechanics are less visible than others, certainly, but from a modder's point of view I know of entirely new code features that were introduced between expansions in both vDoW and DoW II.
Heldentod
But I can't think of any occasion where they added a whole new feature that impacts the balance, like, let's say introducing a moral system after launch. I have my doubts some that drastic would ever happen. Or even just adding accurcary afterwards (though I'm not sure weather or not this will be in the game already).
Gorb
Well I guess that's down to what you consider a mechanic, or impactful as one. Normally (especially in vDoW) code extensions were selectively used for new races (weapon upgrade code modifications only affected the SoB in Soulstorm, for example) - very little attempts at revitalising the original races with new mechanics were made.
If you want Morale exactly as it was in vDoW and that mechanic alone, then no, you probably won't be satisfied. Relic have already said there will be systems that mimic the older effects of the Morale and / or Suppression systems (I forget which ones the developers mentioned; it might have just been Suppression) present in DoW III and it's not unreasonable to expect those systems to be improved over time.
LadderGoat
Thanks mate! Pleased you agree.
I would be intrigued to see more people answering those questions I've thrown out there to see their responses. I don't want this to get too off topic