Messaged them here, sent a support ticket to SEGA, there's a discussion on the Steam forums, and there's this thread here. Let's see how long it takes Relic to respond.
probably wont get a response at all
Not really an option. They made the game unplayable for some of us. If they have literally 0 communication with the community then I might as well walk into their offices and tell them.
A lot of companies are like this unfortunately. It's either a crappy automated message or nothing, and with the way Relic has been, you are more likely to get nothing
Which is funny, because Relic have a good track record for communication.
Purely for the sake of argument (to get something constructive out of this little derail), what is "unplayable" about not being able to pause SP?
* for the record, I believe that it is an oversight and should be fixed.
Unplayable, because, some of us can only have fun with this game by playing Single Player, and only by taking our time to think about our next move, plan, micro etc. (let alone those who simply are not good enough to play w/o pause at all and those who need to pause because of IRL issues like babies). Thus, with the removal of Single Player Pause, we can draw no enjoyment from the game, neither from MP or SP. As such the game becomes unplayable, because we no longer "engage in activity for enjoyment".
What button paused the game previously? I have over 400 hours combined in vDoW II and CR (might not seem like a lot compared to some around here, hah, but all three are in my top 5 played Steam games), and the only time I ever paused the game was with F10 - which still works.
I read something about users liking being able to give commands with the game paused - I've just tested this and movement commands can be issued while the game is paused in this manner as well.
It's been mentioned quite a few times, but the Pause-Break button used to pause the game. Time essentially stopped and you could issue commands to take place once you unpaused. I assume F10 used to do the same thing (never used it so idk). Right now, both those buttons bring up the Esc menu, and do not pause the game (time keeps passing).
Oh, right. I thought when you said Single Player, you meant the Single Player game mode instead of MP Skirmish. You could well be right.
I'm less sure that the issue is fixable, but it won't hurt to get Relic to try.
That said, if you don't want a challenge / aren't good at the game, the easiest AI really doesn't do anything, even if you go and put the baby down for a nap
Thing is that is not fun either; fun was having the AI play at a difficulty where it does do something, ie hard/expert and have the help of the pause button to make up for your poor micro skills. That is the way a plethora of people play RTS games.
I wasn't aware it was a key selling point of the franchise, and I already stated my support for it to be fixed.
Also, offline skirmish isn't Single Player (nor is it ever advertised as such), please don't confuse issues. You may consider it Single Player, but no game advert or selling point ever called it such.
The reason it was removed from Multiplayer was most likely due to the complete reprogramming of the networking code behind the game. I am sure there's a possibility of it being fixed, but you weren't misled in any way.
If Relic hadn't worked on the game, it is likely you wouldn't have had a functioning MP experience at all (given the rumours around GfWL and a lot of developers yanking it from their games). If you're on about Retribution specifically, the work on that game is still in Open Beta, so hopefully there will be more changes!
@Morfeas - be careful not to speak for other people. I have no doubt it's important to you, and perhaps others. But don't assume that it is.
I am talking about campaign missions -- in DoW I you vere able to select squads and issue orders when in pause. In DoW II from begining there were problems with pause, but if I remember correctly you were able to select squad, select action... but to point a target you had to un-pause it for split second. A little inconvinient but still usefull. It was when Pause/Break buton was working.
Now you cannot select squads or abilities when in menu-pause (F10 version), also you get menu window in the middle of the screen to block some portion of your view... also -- if you constantly F10 in and out of menu game interface tends to block, and for some few seconds you are unable to do anything.
And I don't play multiplayer and had never intention of doing it.
I do agree that keeping MP workng is more important (considering all players), but for me this one little change ruined the game. It changed it from tactical strategy to dexterity game.
I play shooters and other games that require dexterity, but I don't want to mix strategy and how-fast-you-can-click in one game.
@Morfeas - be careful not to speak for other people. I have no doubt it's important to you, and perhaps others. But don't assume that it is.
I am very careful and say exactly what I mean. If I state something as an opinion, it is just that. If I present something as a fact, it is also just that.
I am talking about campaign missions -- in DoW I you vere able to select squads and issue orders when in pause. In DoW II from begining there were problems with pause, but if I remember correctly you were able to select squad, select action... but to point a target you had to un-pause it for split second. A little inconvinient but still usefull. It was when Pause/Break buton was working.
Now you cannot select squads or abilities when in menu-pause (F10 version), also you get menu window in the middle of the screen to block some portion of your view... also -- if you constantly F10 in and out of menu game interface tends to block, and for some few seconds you are unable to do anything.
Ahh, sorry, see I get mixed up when two people use the term differently. My bad.
Movement orders still work when DoW II is paused using F10. Abilities are locked-out, but as I understand it you were basically exploiting a bug? Intentional or not, that sounds like buggish behaviour.
Now, if you wanted to petition Relic to implement a pause function that allowed for ability input (in SP), go ahead (resources, manpower, etc, accounting for). But your statement of "they took something away" is completely false. In all likelihood they probably fixed a bug (or more than one bug) with the pause function itself.
I am very careful and say exactly what I mean. If I state something as an opinion, it is just that. If I present something as a fact, it is also just that.
Well, if it was fact, you must know an awful lot of people with this specific issue to count as a "plethora". Perhaps get them posting!
Up until the latest update, you could press the PAUSE-BREAK key or the F10 key to pause the game. While the game was paused resources would stop gathering, units would stop moving, etc; time was frozen. There was a sign reading "Game Paused" in the middle of the screen. You could still select units, issue move commands and order them to use abilities once the game was unpaused. You could select upgrades or select units to produce while the game was paused, and these would take effect once unpaused. This is a feature in almost every RTS game: AoE, AoM, Rise of Legends, Total War, Battle for Middle Earth etc etc, and always functions in the way described above. This feature was enabled in Single Player Campaign, Custom Games VS AI, and, I assume, Multiplayer. By removing it from multiplayer they also removed it from Custom Games VS AI (I think it's still present in Campaign, if not then it should be brought back there too), which is unacceptable. It is by no means an exploit or bug, and is a feature necessary for a certain part of the audience to be able to play the game. Thus, we, the people affected by this, demand the revert of this change.
You need to get the people affected by this posting then. Because I haven't seen it as a feature, ever used it, or ever seen it advertised in any game, including ones you've mentioned.
And no, you do not get to decide what is a intentional feature and what isn't. However, if enough people campaign for it, Relic may notice. So get people posting!
What the heck? We have people posting about it both here and the steam discussion. We don't need to "get" people posting anything. And I don't have to decide if it is an intentional feature or not, I want THEM to tell me if the removal was intentional or not, because the feature was there; it was not a bug or exploit, it was a function in the game which is now gone. And features don't have to be advertised either, that's not what "feature" means. Any other misconceptions? Also your attitude is really passive-aggressive, I can't understand if you're trying to play devil's advocate, provide support for the cause, support Relic's inability to respond or whatelse.
I'm telling you to get people posting. Either take that advice, or leave it. You have been nothing but passive-aggressive and I have responded to your every complaint, including giving you the contact details required.
Gorb -- this "bug" as you see it or "feature" as I, Morfeas and some others see it was present in DoW I *all versions* in DoW II *all versions* and now is gone.
DoW I: Core, Winter Assault, Dark Crusade and Soulstorm. DoW II: Core, Chaos Rising and Retribution
This are SEVEN consecutive games that had been sold and that had this "bug".
Nobody ever reported it as a bug. Nobody asked for fixing it.
It is quite amazing that they didn't feel like fixing this "bug" since 2004 when DoW was released. They didn't even said that it was a bug. And they did not post that they have changed it as a bug fix. They fixed other bug -- multiplayer pause -- and by doing it they removed something that was present in game series from the very begining.
I think your claim that active pause was never intended to be in DoW is a little far fetched.
@swat, I base my opinion of "bug" with regards to how you have to take advantage of it. If you have to pause/unpause the game for a split second to order attack on a unit, that's not intended behaviour. It might work, but (and I welcome any corrections) it's not intended.
And I say again that they released seven games that all had this "bug". It was there for ten long years and people were happy with it.
No one asked for change in that.
And if they are not aware of the fact that active pause is a feature for RTS games then they are really bad game developers. They are bad because: 1. They don't know how their users use their product. 2. They have missed other games from the same or similar lines that had this feature. In short: they don't know competition.
But in reality I think situation is much simpler. As it was written in patch notes: they needed to remove Pause from Multiplayer... and they did -- with a dirty hack of simply breaking the bindings somewhere. So they did not have to implement anything -- all they needed was to comment out a few lines of code... or even less.
Simple, cheap and appaling sollution.
I hope they put more effort in fixing multiplayer for those who still want to play it.
I am talking about campaign missions -- in DoW I you vere able to select squads and issue orders when in pause. In DoW II from begining there were problems with pause, but if I remember correctly you were able to select squad, select action... but to point a target you had to un-pause it for split second. A little inconvinient but still usefull. It was when Pause/Break buton was working.
Now you cannot select squads or abilities when in menu-pause (F10 version), also you get menu window in the middle of the screen to block some portion of your view... also -- if you constantly F10 in and out of menu game interface tends to block, and for some few seconds you are unable to do anything.
Ahh, sorry, see I get mixed up when two people use the term differently. My bad.
Movement orders still work when DoW II is paused using F10. Abilities are locked-out, but as I understand it you were basically exploiting a bug? Intentional or not, that sounds like buggish behaviour.
Now, if you wanted to petition Relic to implement a pause function that allowed for ability input (in SP), go ahead (resources, manpower, etc, accounting for). But your statement of "they took something away" is completely false. In all likelihood they probably fixed a bug (or more than one bug) with the pause function itself.
I am very careful and say exactly what I mean. If I state something as an opinion, it is just that. If I present something as a fact, it is also just that.
Well, if it was fact, you must know an awful lot of people with this specific issue to count as a "plethora". Perhaps get them posting!
Hey
As I said previously, the ability to pause and give movement orders in the single player campaign has been a feature of not just Relic's DOW games but also COH 1 (not sure about Homeworld or COH 2...). Yeah, it isn't a feature that made it on to the box bullet points, but it's been there consistently for many years now.
I wonder if whoever implemented this is no longer at Relic? Whoever was responsible for this greatly enhanced my enjoyment of Relic RTS games over the years.
Also, Relic are not the only RTS designers to implement this feature. All Age of Empires (and other Age of xx) games, Rise of Nations, all Gas Powered games (Supreme Commander), Total Annihilation, and more had this as well. And all bound by default to the Pause/Break key!
You guys do realise this is an RTS? (Real Time Strategy) You can still pause while doing the campaign, nothing seems out of the ordinary there. (off topic: What's not fine is not being able to pause custom games versus the AI and replays.)
Messaged them here, sent a support ticket to SEGA, there's a discussion on the Steam forums, and there's this thread here. Let's see how long it takes Relic to respond.
probably wont get a response at all
Not really an option. They made the game unplayable for some of us. If they have literally 0 communication with the community then I might as well walk into their offices and tell them.
Unplayable how? A lack of pause button isn't really making the game unplayable.
You guys do realise this is an RTS? (Real Time Strategy) You can still pause while doing the campaign, nothing seems out of the ordinary there. (off topic: What's not fine is not being able to pause custom games versus the AI and replays.)
That's not "offtopic", that's EXACTLY what we're talking about here! You can pause in Campaign (like you should), and can't pause in MP (like you should). What we want is Pause back in Custom Vs AI.
Unplayable, because, some of us can only have fun with this game by playing Single Player, and only by taking our time to think about our next move, plan, micro etc. (let alone those who simply are not good enough to play w/o pause at all and those who need to pause because of IRL issues like babies). Thus, with the removal of Single Player Pause, we can draw no enjoyment from the game, neither from MP or SP. As such the game becomes unplayable, because we no longer "engage in activity for enjoyment".
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Comments
Zeref
Gorb
Purely for the sake of argument (to get something constructive out of this little derail), what is "unplayable" about not being able to pause SP?
* for the record, I believe that it is an oversight and should be fixed.
Morfeas
Gorb
I read something about users liking being able to give commands with the game paused - I've just tested this and movement commands can be issued while the game is paused in this manner as well.
Morfeas
Gorb
Morfeas
Gorb
I'm less sure that the issue is fixable, but it won't hurt to get Relic to try.
That said, if you don't want a challenge / aren't good at the game, the easiest AI really doesn't do anything, even if you go and put the baby down for a nap
Morfeas
swat
I would not buy this game if it did not had active pause.
So it is basically removing an important feature from already sold product.
Would you like any of your games to suddenly loose something importan? Like multiplayer option?
Gorb
Also, offline skirmish isn't Single Player (nor is it ever advertised as such), please don't confuse issues. You may consider it Single Player, but no game advert or selling point ever called it such.
The reason it was removed from Multiplayer was most likely due to the complete reprogramming of the networking code behind the game. I am sure there's a possibility of it being fixed, but you weren't misled in any way.
If Relic hadn't worked on the game, it is likely you wouldn't have had a functioning MP experience at all (given the rumours around GfWL and a lot of developers yanking it from their games). If you're on about Retribution specifically, the work on that game is still in Open Beta, so hopefully there will be more changes!
@Morfeas - be careful not to speak for other people. I have no doubt it's important to you, and perhaps others. But don't assume that it is.
swat
Now you cannot select squads or abilities when in menu-pause (F10 version), also you get menu window in the middle of the screen to block some portion of your view... also -- if you constantly F10 in and out of menu game interface tends to block, and for some few seconds you are unable to do anything.
swat
I do agree that keeping MP workng is more important (considering all players), but for me this one little change ruined the game. It changed it from tactical strategy to dexterity game.
I play shooters and other games that require dexterity, but I don't want to mix strategy and how-fast-you-can-click in one game.
Morfeas
Gorb
Movement orders still work when DoW II is paused using F10. Abilities are locked-out, but as I understand it you were basically exploiting a bug? Intentional or not, that sounds like buggish behaviour.
Now, if you wanted to petition Relic to implement a pause function that allowed for ability input (in SP), go ahead (resources, manpower, etc, accounting for). But your statement of "they took something away" is completely false. In all likelihood they probably fixed a bug (or more than one bug) with the pause function itself. Well, if it was fact, you must know an awful lot of people with this specific issue to count as a "plethora". Perhaps get them posting!
Morfeas
Up until the latest update, you could press the PAUSE-BREAK key or the F10 key to pause the game. While the game was paused resources would stop gathering, units would stop moving, etc; time was frozen. There was a sign reading "Game Paused" in the middle of the screen. You could still select units, issue move commands and order them to use abilities once the game was unpaused. You could select upgrades or select units to produce while the game was paused, and these would take effect once unpaused. This is a feature in almost every RTS game: AoE, AoM, Rise of Legends, Total War, Battle for Middle Earth etc etc, and always functions in the way described above. This feature was enabled in Single Player Campaign, Custom Games VS AI, and, I assume, Multiplayer. By removing it from multiplayer they also removed it from Custom Games VS AI (I think it's still present in Campaign, if not then it should be brought back there too), which is unacceptable. It is by no means an exploit or bug, and is a feature necessary for a certain part of the audience to be able to play the game. Thus, we, the people affected by this, demand the revert of this change.
Gorb
And no, you do not get to decide what is a intentional feature and what isn't. However, if enough people campaign for it, Relic may notice. So get people posting!
Morfeas
Also your attitude is really passive-aggressive, I can't understand if you're trying to play devil's advocate, provide support for the cause, support Relic's inability to respond or whatelse.
Gorb
Relax.
Morfeas
swat
DoW I: Core, Winter Assault, Dark Crusade and Soulstorm.
DoW II: Core, Chaos Rising and Retribution
This are SEVEN consecutive games that had been sold and that had this "bug".
Nobody ever reported it as a bug. Nobody asked for fixing it.
It is quite amazing that they didn't feel like fixing this "bug" since 2004 when DoW was released. They didn't even said that it was a bug. And they did not post that they have changed it as a bug fix. They fixed other bug -- multiplayer pause -- and by doing it they removed something that was present in game series from the very begining.
I think your claim that active pause was never intended to be in DoW is a little far fetched.
Morfeas
Gorb
swat
No one asked for change in that.
And if they are not aware of the fact that active pause is a feature for RTS games then they are really bad game developers. They are bad because:
1. They don't know how their users use their product.
2. They have missed other games from the same or similar lines that had this feature. In short: they don't know competition.
But in reality I think situation is much simpler. As it was written in patch notes: they needed to remove Pause from Multiplayer... and they did -- with a dirty hack of simply breaking the bindings somewhere. So they did not have to implement anything -- all they needed was to comment out a few lines of code... or even less.
Simple, cheap and appaling sollution.
I hope they put more effort in fixing multiplayer for those who still want to play it.
Gorb
Nurhgling
As I said previously, the ability to pause and give movement orders in the single player campaign has been a feature of not just Relic's DOW games but also COH 1 (not sure about Homeworld or COH 2...). Yeah, it isn't a feature that made it on to the box bullet points, but it's been there consistently for many years now.
I wonder if whoever implemented this is no longer at Relic? Whoever was responsible for this greatly enhanced my enjoyment of Relic RTS games over the years.
Also, Relic are not the only RTS designers to implement this feature. All Age of Empires (and other Age of xx) games, Rise of Nations, all Gas Powered games (Supreme Commander), Total Annihilation, and more had this as well. And all bound by default to the Pause/Break key!
So, it really is not a niche thing!!
Dark_Riku
You guys do realise this is an RTS? (Real Time Strategy) You can still pause while doing the campaign, nothing seems out of the ordinary there.
(off topic: What's not fine is not being able to pause custom games versus the AI and replays.)
Sero
Morfeas
You can pause in Campaign (like you should), and can't pause in MP (like you should). What we want is Pause back in Custom Vs AI. I answered this question in the beginning of this exact same page..
Morfeas