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So...is Relic even hearing us?
3 years ago
Some_loyalist
Not hating or anything. I just have a question: Are the dow3 developers taking our suggestions(For example giving unique skins in the power core mode to the races)? From what i have seen, not really, but i might be misguided because of Archwarhammer. Anyone here to clear me up about what is happening and if our opinions do actually matter to relic?
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Comments
Gorb
Moved to Dawn of War III General Discussion.
GuruSkippy
Yup,
They gave us an option to remove the outlines on units for example.
And not doing everything you, we, or some of us want, does not mean they are not listening/reading.
blali
Wow this sound awsome. It really was a bad look. How is the selection displayed without a outline?
Connatic
Archwarhammer has some very salty opinions. Last I heard he hasn't even played the game yet. There is no way to fix the "problems" people like Archwarhammer have with the game.
shmoulki
Of course there is. Communication, explanation, twitch with the devs, gameplay videos, devs diary.... What Relic doesn't do AT ALL.
shmoulki
I disagree, Arch asks legit questions about the game, lots of unexplained new features, lots of old features deleted, changes in gameplay and artistic direction, 3 races only, only 1 MP mode, weird animation....etc....
He's angry because there's no answers about those and Relic silence sounds like they don't give a ++heresy redacted++.
Creature
They're listening. They just aren't taking all of the advice they've been given. How could they? Some suggestions cannot be followed, like all of the ones suggesting an entirely different approach and game than the one they are going for. They were never going to make a 180 turn and change it into DoW2.5. Laying aside the fact that isn't their creative vision or goal, it's just not reasonable from a business perspective to toss everything and re-do it.
Suggestions that don't conflict with their vision for the game they have generally adopted, with the notable exception of Gabriel leaping. Personally that doesn't bother me at all, but that could have easily been changed and their vision maintained. Unless, of course, there is something about it we haven't learned yet - like a story or campaign need.
Gorb
Relic have given plenty of answers, and I'm very sure Arch Warhammer is aware of those answers. I agree that they're not always easy to find, and unfortunately there isn't any one thing that will fix this.
So there are two situations here. Either Arch is aware of the answers and is making the kind of talk he is intentionally, or he hasn't managed to be made aware of anything Relic have said in articles, in the news posts, or here on the forums (which I think he is a member of?). Of course it could be a mix of these things, but Relic have given reasons for a lot of the issues players have.
The problem is players still disagree. Which is absolutely fine, but let's not pretend Relic haven't given the reasoning, then?
GuruSkippy
no DOW2 cover = Relic answered why.
The scale is too big for that, and it's problematic with pathfinding, or just having all units in cover.
They introduced bubble cover and abilities to protect from range fire in reimplacement.
no sync kills = Relic answered why, it removes player control, they changed it with death animations
no free camera = Relic answered that they're opened to return it, if I'm not mistaken
unit outlines = Relic answered with an option to turn it off
not grimdark enough = This is a matter of personnal taste, but when I look the first pictures of the game, and what it is now, I see a difference. For me, they answered it.
clarity = matter of taste again.
And on this one, I think they didn't answer well. They said that, for clarity purpose, the bigger damage you do, the more obvious it is, looking at the unit when it shoots.
Actually, I think they managed to do it. Problem is when there is big fights, you better not be an epileptic guy.
Though, playing, maybe we'll get use to it.
Animations = matter of taste.
I don't think they said anything about it. Personally, I don't care.
Jumping Angelos not true to 40k lore zomg zomg zomg what's this sh*t = no answer
Personally, I don't care.
Fear of paid DLC impacting gameplay = they answered. They don't plan to add paid new Elite units. They'll give us for free, but "buyable" in game with their skull system, that you earn just playing.
Lack of good gameplay MP video = no answer yet. But it's obious to me that we'll have one, sooner or later.
Open beta or demo = they answered. We will be able to try the game for free before buying it. We don't know when yet.
Why map is on the right side = they answered with on option to chose if it's on the left or right.
why only one game mode = they answered that hey are open to add more in the future, but they want to focus on one mode at the beginning, giving us the best possible experience.
why only 3 races = Philipp Boule says that he wants to add all WH40K races if he can, but adding a race is more complicated because of the number of Elite and doctrines to implement. (and balance, obviously)
grndmrshlgando
archwarhammer is a huge whiner. he hasn't even played the game yet whines up and down about dow3 all the time.
Larkis
There are 2 points to admit
The Devs listen, bit listening dont means they do everything the community want to have. The dev dont have time to arguing. So they just listen, look in wehich direction the discussions move but dont answer.
There are close beta tester who still can play the game. So i think they can give much more qualified input then the guys who only could see videos.
GuruSkippy
Oh you're probably right.
But
1. Selection for beta was pure random. So their input, while more qualified you're right, can be as much random as the selection was.
2. This is a forum about DOW3, what are we supposed to discuss then ? We should just shut up, and have 0 activity here until we can play ? I love discussion and debate. I don't see why only beta players can discuss and debate.
Keisoku
Arch-Warhammer talks about almost 0 gameplay and fundamental mechanics (which are the basis for a consistently good RTS) unlike Hero who actually watches the gameplay and analyses it.
He preaches to the type of audience that will probably just play the campaign for the lore, then go multiplayer to get murdered and blame it on the "MOBA" aspects of the mode. The ones that will perpetuate the game are those that will be committed to multiplayer, cast match-ups and participate in competitive in general.
I'm really hoping to see this game make an alternative for those that want a fresh RTS competitive scene.
Shardex
I eat a shoe if ArchWarhammer isnt making the smack talk intentionally. His whole attitude isnt real at all, its populist and superficial. If he doesnt, he is really dumb and should just stick to making lore videos. Unfortunately youtubers like him influence young people and spread this attitude. As example he insults the devs being "f***ing idiots" for placing the cores that power the turrets outside. I mean, can he really be that dumb? Of course they are placed outside so you actually have a chance to push into the base without getting destroyed by the turrets. Its an anti-rush/anticheese mechanic. But this guy isnt dumb, he is smart because he acknowledges many people arent really satisfied with the direction of the new DoW title and so he abuses this for generating views and likes. He isnt whining, because he doesnt really care at all.
Nautiloidor
Your comment hits the nail on the head IMO. Jumping on the "hate train" to get views.
Keisoku
I partially have the same view: Its either he doesn't know how an RTS should work or he is taking the advantage of the typical superficial reaction people these days now have to sequel titles such as DoW3.
DiggaNob
Actually, he was making a joke about the "actual makers" of the defensive structures in the setting to be "f***ing idiots".
blali
Arch is right with a lot of stuff. They fundamental problem is this:
A lot of people want a atmospheric, realistic RTS which feels like wh40 because they love the universe, and other people just want some kind of RTS.
How would you feel as a starwars fan when they made RTS out of it with darth vaders model 2xtimes as big in height as the other humans and this kind of stuff. It feels wrong when you want to experience a star wars universe atmosphere.
wongtp
watch redphage's anti rant video. i believe he has a much more constructive view on the game's mechanics and playstyle.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=rILtKeRMsWg
he makes much better points than arch's, which the latter is based off 0 hours of experience, emotions and intellect of a crying baby. after listening to what arch has to say about the game, i am 100% convinced that he does not care much for the game, but cater to the massive pool of equally foolish masses for i suppose is revenue. he has failed to critically think on the game's design/mechanics decisions and just decides to bash on them using colorfully structured but ultimately meaningless insults.
Larkis
Sorry you missunderstand me. I dont say "stop discuss". I say "dont except that Relic react on your critic and change elements because you think they should be changed".
Keisoku
When it comes to RTS in general, over emphasis on realism usually hurts gameplay.
Its obvious that some people play it for the warhammer themed army clashes, others for the lore,etc.
Take starcraft 2 for example: The zerg ultralisk model is not realistic at all with respects to the lore, because if it was, it would drastically change the gameplay for worse, and when you design a game for it to be gameplay appealing and have multiplayer longevity, ofc you make "sacrifices", but does the unrealistic model of the ultralisk makes it feel awkward and bad? Absolutely not.
Ventulus
I couldn't agree with you more. Mechanics and gameplay are way more important then anything else.
Also, if your going for an immersive game RTS might be one of the worst genres to look into.
Sticking to what is "realistic" for no reason other than "realism" sake is a bad thing.
Andtaxes
Remember that Futurama episode where Bender was god?
Non-direct interaction is sometimes best.
yourCuteMotoko
Funny how you keep giving importance to such YT content creator by either siding with or against his opinion.
Personally its just a random opinion definitely lacking authoritativeness and understanding of consequences and implications of specific choices, while gathering instead the "feeling" aspect based on mostly distorted perception in order to legitimize his view.
Im actually quite surprised that people mindlessly follow certain YT personalities echoing their opinion as gospel and actual facts, but i suppose its a byproduct of the entertainment value associated
Gorb
I think we all need to dial back the language and tone in this thread. Snapping at each other doesn't help, and snapping at people who may or may not visit the forums isn't going to help, either. It causes threads to devolve into petty oneupmanship around who can craft the wittiest non rulebreaking insult.
Returning to the topic, if it hasn't been exhausted, would be ideal.
This is a moderator post
Gribouille81
I watched this video and I see that the reviews are very negative
And it is always on the same subjects
Are you going to do something or not?
And I found this comment also a little lower in the discussions
This is what I question to know if Relic listen to his community.
"Animations are still ++heresy redacted++ dreadful. It would be better if the units floated around instead of walking, thats how bad it is.
Why the hell do the Eldar have personal energy shields, Eldar, a species that doesn't even use energy shields for their ships?
Seriously relic, your gameplay formula has worked well for ten years and now you are trying to make a Starcraft clone? If i wanted to play a game like Starcraft, i would play Starcraft.
I can't believe i am saying this but i really want this game to be a failure. The Dawn of War communitys reaction to every bit of gameplay they have shown has been overwhelmingly negative, yet Relic still refuses to admit what a massive mistake they have made. And as such, their game deserves to be a failure."
More this comment that I wish shown
"This is so disappointing. They're alienating the whole Dawn of War community to try and cash in on the competitive starcraft and moba market which wont care anyway. Literally all they had to do was give us Dark Crusade with updated graphics and more gameplay mechanics and everyone would be loving it. Instead they reduce it down to three races, remove synch kills, remove morale, remove proper cover and make it a ++heresy redacted++ colourful bubble for some reason, remove every interesting mechanic until the game is just another simple rock paper scissors RTS. And while they're at it they even make it look like a cartoony moba and give everything ridiculous over the top anime animations. The only positive thing i can say is that it looks well polished. Unfortunately its probably too late to throw this in the bin and start again. The best way out of this mess is to rename it "WH40k - battle arena" and then give us a real Dawn of War 3 next year, otherwise this will be the death of the franchise."
I do not wish the failure of the game but that you become aware
That you take the wrong path to follow and that you are going to fix things
Do not force the community to appeal to the exterminatus !
French translate by google