Menu
Where's the love for the different factions?
Chubbyninja89
The title asks it all.
Where's the love for the various chapters and sub factions within the 40k universe? Where are the other Space Marine chapters that aren't the stupid Ultrasmurfs, like the Salamanders or Space Wolves? Where are the six major Ork klans? Why haven't the four chaos gods been properly represented through their units in games?
This is something that's really bugs me the more I think about it. There are so many groups that within 40k that never get represented in any of the games. And the developers wouldn't necessarily have to create tons of new data to overhaul the game and such, they could just use the base of the race as a whole to create the sub factions and chapters from there. I'll just use the Space Wolves as the example.
Since the Space Wolves don't follow the Codex Astartes for anything, you'd think they'd have to make a huge separate faction right? That's not really the case. Aside from the Fenrisian Wolves and Thunderwolf Cavalry, most of their troops aren't really all that different from the regular space marines when you think about it, they just fight in a pretty different way. But I'll use their Blood Claws as the example unit.
Here's the basic SM Force Commander from DoW2
vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/d__/images/6/64/Dow2_sm_fc_bloodravens_r01.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110903115004&path-prefix=dow
Now here's the Blood Claws
https://games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99120101145_SpaceWolvesBloodClaws02.jpg
or
https://games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99120101145_SpaceWolvesBloodClaws03.jpg
Now just use the Force Commander armed with a chainsword and bolter unit as a base, then slap the Blood Claws skin over it and make it a squad of 8 or 9, and boom, you go the Blood Claws as a unit.
The devs really should go the extra mille and implement the various chapters and other sub factions within the 40k universe in their games. It would not only give us a lot of options within the game, but they'd also give the companies a pretty good way to make money. Think about it devs.
Comments
yourCuteMotoko
A top priority for a game thats 1 month from release: scrap the whole assets they have for all the races to rush the make of multiple models and a clan/gods/chapters model to suit that.
Seems totally doable with Relic workforce.
Wait..
shmoulki
Skins of different chapters will come from further dlc
Larkis
There are also Skins in. I saw black templars in one video.
Silk
I think I already talked about this in a previous thread, but most of the time recreating subfactions can easily be done by adding a lot of options to each faction, and then let the players play them the way they want. You want to play Black Templars? Fine, just play as Marines, chose the right color scheme/skinset-DLC, and put limitations on yourself - no Librarian, more Assault Marines in game, etc.
What about the special units that aren't in the army right now?
Well I think most of them can be added as elite units later. To stay with the Black Templar, the only really unique unit I can think of is the Emperor's Champion, which I think could fit really well as a dedicated melee powerhouse elite unit for the Space Marines. (Sword Brethren are just Vanguard Veterans, and Crusader squads are just a mix of Scouts and Tactical Marines really - put a squad of Scouts near a Tactical Squad et voilà !) And for now, I think playing a Chaplain instead of the Champion fit them just well.
Yeah but that only works for Black Templars.
Just tell me what your favorite subfaction is, I'm pretty sure I'll find a way to make them fit. Maybe it will take a bit more than one elite unit added to the game, but I'm pretty sure it's possible for each of them!
Note that not every unit may fit - just like not every Codex Space Marine unit is in their roster right now!
But with this system I may be able to play an Emperor's Champion with Gabriel Angelos and a Space Wolf Captain: it's not fluffy!
Well maybe, we don't know how Relic will do it yet, but bear in mind that:
Chubbyninja89
What?
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or what. Please elaborate.
Chubbyninja89
Were they just color changes or actual full reskins?
Because that might not be as bad if we got every chapter or IG regiment as a fully different reskin DLC. Hell, if they did that for the Orks and Chaos as well, then it'd be great. At least for being reskin DLC that is.
yourCuteMotoko
It was sarcasm ofc, you cant expect that sort of work when close to ship a product
You could count on that as a cosmetic option (without the clans/chapters/gods unless they actually implement that system) as a cosmetic DLC you can purchase later on
Chubbyninja89
Well dude, I'm just getting sick of seeing the same ++heresy redacted++ factions over and over again in the 40k games. We never see any of the other, much more awesome space marine chapter. We don't get to see the actually different ork klans, go watch some lore videos on them to see what I mean. We've never seen the four chaos gods properly represented in the armies of chaos.
Those kind of things would seriously add so much ++heresy redacted++ variety to the games, not to mention it could be a great way to make money as DLC. Then everyone wins.
Chubbyninja89
Well you're just making yourself kinda look like a bit of an idiot. Because I never once said anything about them implementing this kind of stuff RIGHT NOW, but that they should've factored it in before and should add that kind of stuff later on.
And did you even look at the OP or the links to the images? If you did, rather than only looking at what you want, then you'd actually understand what I was getting at.
shmoulki
the army painter has a lot more colors than in previous DOW so my guess is it will be real reskins with specificity of the chapters, like we got in DOW 2 and like we can see in the preorder skins.
Don't expect too much DLC's for the same factions, in DOW2 most of the factions only got 1 skin DLC except the SM who got 2 and a half.
Concerning Chaos and IG it will take even more time for they are not even playable..
Chubbyninja89
Well that sucks.
They could actually make a little bit of extra money if they at least released full reskin DLC for most of the factions. I'd at least be satisfied with decent Space Wolf or Salamander reskin for my space marines in this game.
Chubbyninja89
Is it supposed to be like a MOBA game. I heard a few people say some things like that. And if that were the case, I think I'd just be done with the Dawn of War franchise.
Prince_Hatta_First
WHERE? They are my fav chapter omg no pity no remorse no fear intensifies.
You never really could play as all those chapters in old dows too. Mods kinda fixed it, tho.
Ork clans, well, they don't really have this huge difference, sorry. I mean, only design. Blablabla, deathskulls like to loot, blood axes like to stealth, but their difference is not this huge and it does not really mean making them should be priority.
We have no chaos in the game.
They have up to 20 squads of initiates and neophites, and it would be super awesome to charge everyone with a huge blob of marines. Tactical marines and scouts are equipped with bolters. I wont chainswords and bolt pistols. Also, BT created LR Crusader and I would like to see it in the game.
Well, as the black templars have NO CODEX UUUGH, we don't really have so much special units. But SW, DA and BA may need more than 1-3 elites probably.
I kinda agree tho that they can make all those chapters be by doing things like this.
Larkis
Go to Seconf 42. As you see the top space marine player is the black/white color of black templars and also has the symbol
Gorb
Except that this is an unfair attack, because you keep saying on how Relic have never represented X in previous games, as in, something that has happening, to justify your irritation at them not doing something in DoW III, i.e. something that hasn't happened.
You say this stuff bugs you, how Relic haven't done things according to how you think they should be done, but you characterise posts (however inflammatory) that point out the issues in doing so as "looking like a bit of an idiot".
When ideas are posted, you have to be open to the notion that people will disagree, and calling them idiots is not the best way to handle critique. Especially when your thread wasn't exactly neutral to start with. This is an opinion post, not a moderator one.
CleanAndClear
The devs have already stated that they want to do skin DLCs, so we will most probably have way more than in DoW2. And it's SEGA, so I would not be worried about lack of DLCs.
Prince_Hatta_First
Oh well, it's just a colour scheme, no tabards and stuff. Well, if they'd really make some kind of skins, the forum will be exploding.
Chubbyninja89
Dude, I said it quite clearly before, so you might just be trying to twist words.
Relic has never gone into the various chapters and other sub factions within each race. Now I like the Blood Ravens, and don't utterly hate the Ultrasmurfs, but when those are the only space marines we really every get to see in games, at least in the majority of them, then that's when they start to get stale and dislikeable.
And again, did you even actually bother to look at the images I put the links for? Or were you just too scared that someone other than you might actually make a decent argument to look?
Gorb
Relic released cosmetic DLC for Dawn of War II Retribution that covered the Dark Angels, the Imperial Fists and the Ultramarines Chapters for Space Marines alone (there were other sets for other races).
I knew what your images were from reading the URL; there's no need to be patronising, especially when you start your post by trying to insinuate I'm not debating in good faith.
You said someone was potentially looking like an idiot, I responded to that. They posted the counterargument to your suggestion, and I followed it up by noting that your criticism of what Relic haven't done isn't fair to hold against Relic if you then qualify your post with "but this is what I suggest for the future". If you're suggesting something for the future, there's no need to get angry about what they haven't done so far.
If you want to be angry about what they haven't done so far, then people posting counterarguments are perfectly valid. You can't have it both ways.
aWildUPSMan
They will most likely come aesthetically. To implement individual units and rules for sub factions of each faction would not only be a huge headache but also a balancing nightmare.
Chubbyninja89
Why's that exactly? And read it all this time.
Did you even look at the image links? They're just from Google Images, nothing to worrying your pretty little head over.
Though you're wrong. If you were to actually look at the main 1st founding chapters, you'd see that they don't go that far off from each other, at least in a overall way from being space marines. I'll just give two examples of my point, in the Blood Angels and Salamanders.
Blood Angels: They're known for their assaults and use of jump packs and deep striking.
That's easy to factor it. Just give their assault marines a overall bonus to things like health, melee attack and damage, and assault jump recharge and maybe add in a special unit like Sanguinary Guard, and boom, you got the Blood Angels.
Salamanders: They're known for excelling in close quarters combat. Just give them a bonus with weapons like Flamers and Melta Guns, and maybe giving their devastators can use Heavy Flamers, but at least with the bonuses for regular flamers and melta weapons. And you have the Salamanders.
The devs wouldn't have to overhaul the game just to add those two chapters, they'd just have to copy and paste the main base of the space marines and change a few stats just a little bit, and you'd have most of them, and if they maybe added a special unit or two, that be great too. The only units that might actually be "harder" to make might be the Fenrisian Wolves and Thunderwolf Cavalry for the Space Wolves.
They're actually different enough to do something with, if you actually looked up the lore and did your freaking research. And I'll just put it in simple terms so it won't confuse you too much.
Blood Axes: Their ork units can get the Infiltrate ability, but only while their stationary. They can get bonuses for Kommandos, and maybe even some upgrades that either let them do better at range or in melee. And give them Kommando Nobz instead of regular Nobz, who are just bigger badder versions of the regular Kommandos.
Goffs: They could get better version of the Slugger Boyz and Nobz. And maybe their Slugga Boyz, or renamed Goff Boyz, could have the ability to turn into either heavy armored and shield toting 'Ard Boyz or deadlier Skarr Boyz, who would just be much deadlier version of the Slugga Boyz.
Snakebites: They could have access to Squiggoth and other kinda of squigs, as well as their Boyz and Nobz be kind of like the Savage Orcs from Warhammer Fantasy, though with their Nobz having Wyrm Killa weapon upgrades, those being the claws and talons taken from Tyranids.
Bad Moons: They're know for being very greedy and wealthy orks who tend to carry a lot of flashy shootas and I've heard called snaz gunz. They're also known to like to stand back for a while and shoot the enemy with their fancy shootas. So they could be given a fair damage bonus to all their ranged troops, and maybe get some more ranged weapon upgrades for their nobz as well as maybe getting Flash Gitz.
Evil Sunz: They're known to make up most, if not just a really good portion of, the Kult of Speed. They're also known for loving vehicles more than almost all other orks. They could just get an overall buff to their vehicles and maybe give them a extra vehicle unit or two like the Battle Wagons and such, then they'd be good. Maybe throw in Biker Nobz and Storm Nobz, then that'd be even better.
Deathskulls: These guys are known for being looters, as you said. So maybe they could get some looked weapon upgrades, like maybe a stolen chain swords or axes for their Slugga Boyz, and maybe plasma guns and flamers and a nicked power sword or axe for their Nobz.
Chubbyninja89
Actually look at the images man. You won't fully get it if you just look at the words for them.
And that person was obviously sounding like someone who's lazy and doesn't understand what they're even really talking about. Not to mention knowing nothing of the lore or source material. Not to mention that they sound like they never played the past games to boot.
It doesn't take a super genius to look at how they could actually implement the chapters and such dude. Just look at the images I posted the links to for back to back just a little bit and you'll get them.
Chubbyninja89
I know of that DLC, but why can't they just go the full distance and do it more than just one or two chapters? And they could do something like that fore more than just the IG or SMs.
And UPSMAN.
How would you know it'd be a super balancing nightmare and not the other way around, making the game a lot more varied and fun, and less open to moronic exploitable "tactics"?
That's really one of the worst things that could happen to a good RTS series. To become so easy to exploit that some races or factions almost never get touched. I just really don't want to see such a thing happen to the DoW games.
Doobeedoo
Oh for ++heresy redacted++'s sake. DoW3 is an RTS. It is not (and should not be) a simulation of the tabletop game/lore.
There's already an army painter which is something that other RTS games don't have.
If DoW2 is any indication, there may be DLC skin packs to make your Marines look like Smurfs/DA/BA/Space puppies etc.
aWildUPSMan
It's self-explanatory. You would have to balance a stupid amount of individual races then their sub races. Space Marines for example would always have sub factions where as Necrons when added would not. It's not rocket science. The amount of work for all of that alone would cost a stupid amount of resources.
Stoner
Never had any problems with chapters in any previous DOWs, because I could paint them the way I like and import custom badges and banners, tho I might have a serious problem with DOW III about this, because how elites are handled. Still hope there would be some options to repaint and customize elites, otherwise it would be a nightmare.
Considering skins, if Relic decides to give us modding tools, there will be high quality custom skins all over in no time, I think most factions and sub factions will be represented, but I don't think that's gonna happen, because they won't be able to sell DLC as user made content might be higher quality and free. I speculate, sure, but don't think I'm mistaken here.
Gorb
I've played Tabletop, I know what Blood Claws look like
Maybe you should stop accusing people of what they do or do not know, and focus on debating the topic instead of attacking others? Personal opinion post.
Silk
You mean you'd like wolfy Marines instead of Codex Marines? You're right, that would change the face of the world! /irony
I also notice you didn't answer to any of my arguments/propositions; as maybe they weren't understood, I'll try and be more explicit in the rest of this post.
First off, the bold part is subjective, and secondly, we have seen them. Nothing stops you from playing Blood Angels or Salamanders in DoW I or II. Yes, the Apothecaries don't exactly look like Sanguinary Priests if you don't mod the game/buy DLCs; but gameplay-wise, it works.
Yes, nothing mechanically prevents you from buying more heavy bolters than flamers if you play Salamanders. Nor should it be: those kind of limitations should be self-imposed.
I know my fluff, thank you very much for assuming I didn't and for the advice.
I also notice you don't even have to add new units to make klans: so why make a new faction instead of adding a few doctrines corresponding to the klans? Why do they need to be something else differently?
Because you would need to make different armies and that implies a lot more work, so a lot more money invested in the game. That's it.
I do believe however that the elite/doctrine system will allow us to represent them much more properly, by adding a lot of (optional) units related to those gods. Want to play a Slaaneshi army? Fine, take these slaaneshi doctrines, and take this Slaaneshi Chaos Lord and this Keeper of Secrets as your elite units!
Wwhat prevents the variety from coming from the elite and doctrine systems? Why does it need to be additional factions, instead of just doctrines and elite units?
And that's exactly why you don't have to modify anything to play them, except maybe add some elite units for some of them.
OR just add an (optional) doctrine to the Space Marine faction, as well as an (optional) elite unit like Sanguinary Guard. And maybe a special skin for units, as a buyable DLC for Blood Angels fans. You want to play BA fluffy? Limit yourself, you already have almost all the options!
OR just add an (optional) doctrine related to meltas and flamers - maybe something that reduce the cost of flamers for Tactical Marines or improve their efficiency - and maybe add a captain with a melta and/or a Venerable dread with multi-melta. And a special skin for units as DLC.
...that could be added as elite units, for a lot less work than rehauling the whole Space Marine faction.
Doable with a doctrine.
For all we know Kommandos are an elite unit, so you have to chose them to be able to use them. If you want to play fluffy Blood Axes: take the Kommando elite squad, and a few related doctrines.
Or add a Kommando Nob to the elite roster, and don't change anything to the Nobz - if you don't want to use Nobz, just don't use them.
Doable with a doctrine (or two here, as you touch 2 different units - for balance reasons).
What's the need to rename them? Was it just because you're proposing to change their gameplay and wanted to avoid confusion? If so, I don't think there is a need to byt we have a thread discussing about visible doctrines somewhere (I'll try and find it afterward). EDIT: found it
Sluggaboyz can already all do that, they just have to find skrap on the battlefield (or beneath Waaaagh! towers). Granted their names don't change for 'Ard Boyz when they do.
Doable with a doctrine.
A Squiggoth would make a wonderful elite unit, and squigs are already in the game as a tankbusta skrap-upgrade.
So, a special skin, probably as a paid DLC.
Doable as a doctrine.
So you could just add an (optional) Flash Gitz squad, and a doctrine that boost Shootboyz attack for instance.
Or you can add Battlewagon and Biker Nobz as (optional) elite units (Stormboyz have been seen and are already hinted to be an elite squad), and maybe a doctrine to add a speed boost ability to Trukks.
Or add a (DLC) skin for chainswords, poweraxes and flamers for related units.