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DOW3 Personal opinion
Miksa
Hi!
Like everyone i was hyped when i saw the release trailer of DOW3. It was great to see a new Dow after so many years of waiting. My opinion didn't change when I saw the gameplay trailer introducing the space marine and gabriel angelos. But then suddenly a huge amount of hate and discontent surfaces after the trailer. I was baffled by this. Now finaly after about a year after the release of the first trailer I wish to express my opinions of the game and the critisism it has gained. Now a lot of things here are based on my own personal opinion on what I have seen of the game so take this as you will.
Now first of I don't think this game gets everything right.
-I too miss the cover system of DOW1
-Having only one multiplayer mode is stupid even though the Power core mode is almost equal to Annihilation mode from COH2 in my opinion
-And the new lascannon has no excuse.
-Toning down the effects wouldn't hurt eather.
Now that I have gotten that out of the way. To the point. First of all let's get the Visual aesthetics part out of the way. The game isn't as cartoony as people claim it is if you want something that is truly cartoony then look up Warcraft 3 and Red alert 3. The swamps of DOW3 look far more grimmer then those of DOW2. Even though toning down the effects wouldn't hurt the explosions have real impact behind them and look awesome.
Then the Infamous Lore Friendlines. If Jumping terminators is epitome of Lore insult then 40k fanbase has reached a new level of intolerance. I mean what happened to the "rule of cool" guy's? The Dawn of war series has had many moments of disregarding lore. Like the DOW2 Khorne serving librarian and the chaos contradictions of DOW1 like Krull and Bale.
My dear friends at 40k community. I AM DISAPPOINTED.
Then there is the MOBA complaining. It isn't one. DOW3 is an RTS plain and simple. The elites are like straight from DOW2 and we have armies larger than DOW1 ever had. Sure the elites are stronger than the line units but the fact that the elites can be squads and powerful gigantic vehicles makes it less like a MOBA. So no it isn't a MOBA.
Like i already said this is just my opinion on the mater and it is now yours to judge it. Here i stand and may the emperor watch over my soul.
Comments
Miksa
Really? I think it looks awesome.
WarbossGogangash
Whats wrong with wraithknight sliding?
aWildUPSMan
Well balanced opinion. Glad you're one of us on the side who still is looking forward to it!
ValKor01
I am still not entirely sold on Gabe's hammer jumps, I'm more likely to burst into laughter than I am to find it cool, I still think they should have utilised the teleporter to move above and then drop or some kind of specialised jump pack (although thats probably as lore breaking as jumping Gabe). I know the teleporter they have in game has a long wind up but they could have explained it away with something like it being an emergency style combat charge or something.
on the other side of the scale I think the Wraithknight slide is awesome and I hope there is something equally awesome for the Melee variant Imperial Knight.
I understand why the animations are over the top, to help make up for the removal of sync kills and I am all for trying to do that as they were a pretty cool feature that will be missed.
ValKor01
The Eldar have tanks that hover above the ground, I don't think its much of a stretch of the imagination to say the Wraithknight maybe uses something similar (although temporary) to glide and when it deactivates the friction causes it to stop.
You can actually see a blue wave effect under the Wraithknight as it slides (as well as what looks like an effect coming from its back like it does when it jumps) and this wave disappears a little before the wraithknight slows and stops so I think that was what they were going for.
The jump and slide can definitely look weird depending on how far the player chooses to jump the unit, if its a short jump it looks worse than a more extended jump.
ValKor01
You know after looking at the Wraithknight animation in more detail it occurs to me that I haven't seen many people complain about the Wraithknight actually jumping compared to how often I see complaints that Gabe does, maybe that's because there's a clear effect coming from the back of the Wraithknight implying some kind of thrust being used to propel it upwards...
~hint hint Devs~
vindicarex
Lol @TripSin complaining that Eldar are breaking the laws of physics (where their race is constantly described as performing feats that defy reason - nevermind this is 40k, where everything is so over the top, making it incredibly easy to "invent" new technologies and the like to explain-away the fantastical ++heresy redacted++ you see). I also find it silly when the lore purists come out and make some nit-picky comment about "Terminators moving too fast" or "Orks shouldn't be saying this!" Like, c'mon guys, be grateful we have such a high-quality 40k RTS in the first place. But, alas, "the grass is always greener," as the saying goes - a feeling all to common to people wherever you go - be it with their social status, their money, the relationships, their government, their job - whatever.
I actually really like the Wraithknight slide - I thought it was so cool that it made me reconsider to play Eldar for DoW3.
But, ofc, TripSin is our resident troll/hater (yet still lurks around just to hate on the game - always a few of these guys on every forum I'm a part of), so there will be literally no pleasing him.
TheHilariousBard
Honestly, as much as I'm actually kind of bothered by Gabriel jumping around in terminator armor, I do have to admit I get this rush when I see a good player do a really good jump, and it admittedly looks awesome to me. I just wish it was more lore friendly.
g0ll0
I really can't believe they didn't changed the gabriel jump after many many people said it was atrocious.. I still find it disgusting and mobaish, and they had a lot of time to redesign it... I am under the impression they want to make their on DOW without thinking what we liked about previous titles, like the ancient objective I don't remenber anyone asking for other mode in dawn of war. I have destroyed so many times the ancient in dota 2 that I'm not sure if it will be fun to keep doing it in dow3
Shardex
You may or may not like his jump, but arguably it has gameplay effects and synergizes with other elites and abilities.
bibotot
Here are some of my thoughts on Dawn of War 3:
Artistically, it looks alright. The unit design is pretty badass and I do not mind the colourful tone. The animation of units is terrible, however. The removal of dynamic movement makes this a step back from Company of Heroes 2 which I have been playing a lot since 2013. Fighting animation looks great with the exception of Gabriel Angelos doing those weird flipping. I understand how nimble a Space Marine is and Gabriel is like 60% cybernetic after getting nearly pawned by Kyras, but those moves are just over-the-top.
Strategically, I think it will be good. From what I can see, there is clear depth and diversity within each faction. The Doctrines are a great addition, way better than the hilariously insignificant bulletins in Company of Heroes. The balancing issue is somewhat worrying, however, seeing how Company of Heroes 2 was broken upon release with flamethrowers being ridiculously overpowered. Some people have expressed ire over Elite rosters able to counter one another. I do not think this is the case because. Dota 2, if you get out-drafted, your game is likely to be shitty because you have only your hero to play with; the hero is 100% of what you have. The Elite in Dawn of War 3 takes up like 20% of the army, so even if your Elites are countered by the enemy Elites, it is nowhere from over.
There are 3 races upon release. Honestly, I would much prefer if they have only Space Marines and Orks and each faction is completely fleshed out and balanced. They have 20 general units and 10 Elites each. There is one Space Marine main campaign and one Space Marine mini campaign. I don't like the way the Eldar is featured. They are supposed to avoid wars, not diving headlong into one. If there are Space Marines and Orks opposing one another, the Eldar should be manipulating them. I promote alliance between Eldar and the Imperium. If the Necron or any other evil faction is not in the game as the final boss, I will throw it.
8 maps and 1 multiplayer mode? Really? I believe Company of Heroes 2 had 12 maps on release, and people back then still complained there were too few. How is this supposed to be a good thing in 2017?
How is this supposed to stand up with Company of Heroes 2? The early sales figure is not very optimistic. Company of Heroes 2 and its expansions sold about 3 million copies worldwide, and that is with the sales halted in Russia for a while (we all know despite the controversy, the Russians are the ones most wanting to play the games because they are nationlistic and want to spam Conscripts and Maxims). This might not be great compared to 5 millions of Rome Total War 2, but we know that Creative Assembly put way more money into developing that game whereas Relic had financial difficulties due to THQ going bankrupt. All entries in Dawn of War 2 also sold very well. It is hard to believe Dawn of War 3 would be a flop.
Please. Give us Necron. Give us Chaos. Even the Tau. Then, the play base would increase.
BlastaT2
@Miksa
Well written post. I too am looking forward to the game.
A point about why the game has hate is because thats what haters do. They hate. Even though they havnt played the game. Only watching several videos or reading up somewhere about it is appatently enough to warent full rants about something they habnt even played.
See you on release.
Silk
Actually the real hater-lurker is AlternativeIV, who hasn't contributed to any topic in a few weeks but makes a point to press the "disagree" button on everyone saying the game may be good (even if it's in a "meh, good enough" way instead of praising), while agreeing with everyone saying the game will fail.
Although I think this may be healthy, because it compensates for the people praising the game/the devs even when there are some disappointements, and prevents the forum to become a circlejerk (I'm not sure but I think this word may be a bit rude, is there another way to express this idea?).
EDIT: ...and I hadn't red this thread yet, where Alternative makes a comeback. Please disregard on the lurking part.
Silk
This, 100% this.
The races are already more fleshed out than they ever were, and I'm pretty sure they'll add more units to the roster with extensions (I hope so at least, I'd really like to see a Land Raider as an elite transport for instance).
If they never fought they would be no playable army on the tabletop. Biel-Tan is especially known for being the most warmongering craftworld. Besides, we don't know much about the campaign yet, but in the Ork mission they unveiled you could see that Rohnan (of Ulthwe) decieved Gorgutz to fight against other Eldar (Biel-Tan).
This is not good, obviously, but Relic has not been good with this for years. DoW II had 5 maps and no 2v2 at release. Let that sink in.
PR problems. Since the first gameplay trailer the internet has decided to hate on the game - because of the jump, the too colorful artsyle (that has largely evolved since then but they still bring it in for some reason), etc. and it's really difficult to change the Internet's mind. The bandwagonning is too strong.
They plan on doing that with expansion packs, just like they did with the previous games.
Shardex
Inb4 your post getting disagreed upon by AlternativeIV, and mine now too. Somebody just has to take the heavy burden of being the rebel and just disagree with everything.
Renner
Yeah, its interesting to mention that after Arkarius got banned finally he took over right after with slamming disagrees around... Sounds more like the Alternative acc IV, since someone was lazy with making up new names.
Slothman221
I can't wait for the game honestly...I will happily enjoy what looks like a great, entertaining and enjoyable game while others miss out because they can't get over a flip.
AlternativeIV
I mean there is a "disagreement" button so why would I not use it when people make assertions I disagree with, and I was extremely active in the conversation as you said a few weeks ago but I got tired of making the same arguments ad nauseum about what I disliked about the game direction so now I participate by either agreeing or disagreeing. I dont understand why you find it so offensive, I am still participating just in a more laid back fashion no need to be assblasted when Im just using the tools given to me on the forum itself.
ValKor01
Up to you what you do, but I've noticed you've disagreed with me on a few occasions, I've always wished that you would voice your disagreement so that maybe there could be a worthwhile discussion. You disagreed with me on the below quoted post from this very thread, I'd be fairly interested to know what you disagreed with?
It's not like I said anything polarising here, its a possible interpretation for why the Wraithknight slides as much as it does... do you simply not like someone finding a fairly obvious explanation backed up by what you see in the animation? What in the animation suggest my interpretation is incorrect, or are you just disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing?
Gorb
There is absolutely no need for witch hunts of any kind.
My personal opinion is that going around systematically disliking positive posts about the game without actually contributing can lead to being viewed as a negative / non-constructive forum presence, but that is not a forum rule, and just something to bear in mind. If you feel that you're fed up with repeating your arguments, perhaps spare a thought for those people whose posts you're disliking
AlternativeIV
It wasn't polarising and I agree its up for interpretation but I do disagree with your interpretation because of my perspective/understanding of the fluff from reading black library stuff like the Path of Warrior and Path of the Outcast so I disagreed with your opinion and your interpretation of the animation in question. There are no rules on the forums as to what I have to disagree with and I have voiced my opinion on multiple occasions as to the artistic liberties that Relic have decided to use with this game and its interpretation of the Warhammer 40k universe. I dont express these opinions anymore because as I said I have done so on multiple occasion prior and argued them into oblivion and ended up with the answer for the most part that "well thats just your interpetation man" and "Relic can take whatever liberties they need to make a fun game" so now I use other means to participate on the forums. That being said I dont systematically go to every forum post and disagree with every dissenting opinion just for contrarians sake. I still read every forum post and if its something I "Disagree" with I will use my forum tools to express it and if you care about my use of disagree then call me out in that post topic and I will respond but just know that the response will prob be like many other responses on the topic that have been expressed before about Relic interpretation of this universe this time around. Ohh also @Gorb
LeemanRuss
3vs3 is the ultimate experience i just finish the game its amazing total chaos full cap its dow1 with titans
an pure RTS WITH SOME moba objective mod thats it its core is dow 1 with dow 2 heroes
3vs3 is recommended for full enjoyment
ValKor01
So you place lore as a higher priority than gameplay then, thats fine, I like the lore but I just don't think gameplay should be sacrificed to cover lore in every single instance and I am also not that into Eldar lore so I wouldn't be aware of a lore friendly explanation to tie into what we see of the animation. My opinion was based solely on what I see of the animation.
As you disagree with my opinion and interpretation that surely means you have your own interpretation, perhaps if you offered it I (and others) could see from your perspective.
(had to snip due to character restrictions)
I don't know why you got so defensive with me here, I have no objection to how you are using the tools of the forum and I was not suggesting that you systematically go to every forum post and disagree, I was just interested in hearing your opinions as I had seen you post here and usually I only notice you when your name pops up as a disagree on my posts and I don't get to find out why you disagree.
sbeowulf
Hi miksa,
I agree with everything you said, but... I really think the effects/animations are awsome and something we've never seen before (in this amount) in the dow series and
(this is my personal opinion) I think it adds a lot of value to the game + it looks awsome (not like the animations in the previous games were the characters just look left and right and up and down from time to time (basic) for the rest I agree with everything else you said, and I'm still looking forward to play this game!!!
AlternativeIV
Eldar Phantom Titans are described as lumbering in the Forgeworld books I have read mainly referring to Phantom Titians and while not as cumbersome as a Warhound/Imperator or Warlord I have never read in the few Eldar books mentioning the Revanant Class Titans performing the feats of acrobatics that are shown in this game. They are lumbering relatively slow moving monstrosities designed to deal with the monstrosities of other races or be a force multiplier on the battlefield and like what Relic did with Gabe concerning his acrobatic feats designed to make him "Stand out" Relic has decided that their interpretation was that of an Elegant dancer which does fit the Eldar in general terms but does not fit Warhound titan size combatants which do include Wraithknights fam.
As for me being defensive I was acting in such a way because this post was not only directed at you but the other people who are mad in this thread calling me a troll when I have done nothing "trollish" on the forums to warrant sure ire from the community. As I said before I have been extremely vocal in many a thread and even created my own on the concerns I have with the "Elite" system which I vehemently hate to the nth degree but it seemed like the consensus when I made said discussion was I was in the wrong about the issue so I havent "talked" about it recently only agreeing or disagreeing in the relavent threads concerning issues of Elites. I do this because I dont want to belabor points ad nauseum because it usually just ends up poorly and I am assumed even more so of a spamming troll if I do participate in that way. So dont take that part personally it was more directed at Silk Shardex Renner who seem to be buttblasted over magic internet disagreement points rofl.
Auric
Just popping in to throw some lore around. The Wraithknight does have a jump pack which allows it to leap around a lot. It is described as "dextrous enough to run through the ruins of a shattered imperial city or leap across the fang-lined chasms of the crone worlds" within the eldar codex.
Of course it is entirely reasonable to dislike the animations anyways, but there's no lore infringement going on here, in contrast to Gabriel's terminator flipping.
ValKor01
Makes sense, I can see how a unit you've always seen described as lumbering would be a bit jarring while performing the sort of move we see in game, clearly Relic are going for what "looks cool" as opposed to sticking with the lore here.
Thanks for going into more detail about it.
(snipped for character restriction)
I didn't take it personally so no worries, I just didn't want to appear as if I was telling you how you go about voicing your opinion, I don't want to be involved in silencing different view points as that only kills discussion.
Cursed
I've been watching the beta casters this weekend, and the one thing I've noticed alot vs the other dow games is that the actual fighting in the early game takes a long long while to kick off, and when It does it's not really focused around an objective that team that looses the first fight will come and try and take back. It looks kinda boring tbh.
That's even in some out the better streams I've seen. I went to try it before I judge but shop far that's my impression.
AlternativeIV
Im assuming you are referring to these Auric https://puu.sh/vdlea/a707f3005d.png https://puu.sh/vdlfu/ee131ba343.png pulled from my Craftworld Codex and I would counter that they would take a while to attain the speed necessary to perform said feats and not the immediate expenditure of energy shown in game where in they make the charge almost immediately after the command given. I would also like to add that Wraith Knights are subject to the gargantuan creature rule now which might be just for balance but given that descriptor I would think it accurately describes the unit and what it takes to move it. All being said Im not suggesting that the maps need to be 20 miles in length to give the Unit the necessary time needed to get up to speed BUTTTT it dosent mean i can accept that engagement range for the said feats. Like Gabe there are solutions but they are less flashy and it seems like Relic isn't up for the change.
Gorb
The problem is, you not accepting these aesthetics is not the same as you demanding that they be changed. "there are solutions" that might satisfy you, but other people might not like them as much.