Menu
Problem with the clarity
3 years ago
Some_loyalist
Alright, so after reading hate comments, and looking at everything myself again, I got to agree with the "I can't see anything". You need to tone down the effects a bit, as a lot of people are sadly partially right about the visual clarity. It shouldn't be that hard to make everything a bit more clear
Tagged:
0
Comments
Gorb
What effects need toning down? By how much is "a bit"?
Hyperbole might help you sound more emphatic, but it doesn't help the developers accurately target the right effects.
Shardex
Ofcourse we can learn to read all this and become used to it, but it will always be distracting and be a total clusterfukk for any viewer.
taken from the new https://youtube.com/watch?v=82JQ721Y_w8
Some_loyalist
Yeah Shardex just pretty much showed what i meant. Especially the eldar ability if combined with multiple units firing, makes everything chaotic. With a bit i mean that you can atleast see where your and the enemy units are. I mean i understand that those battles are supposed to become BIG. But the amount effects(like you saw from Shardex) is just blocking the view. However i sadly got no proposition, expect making outlines more visible(which only activate if they are behind something like another unit
or in one of those abilities. However, there are most likely multiple apporaches on how to solve this rather small but yet important issue
shmoulki
thnx shardex for the link, there are also tons of time indicators in youtube comments to find some other examples...
funny how everybody say effects are not helping the clarity of the game at all but some people still try the "what are you talking about? you talking ++heresy redacted++ about the game should be told in 2 pages of explanation at least, if you don't do it your opinion worth nothing"
but people saying "that looks awesome" " looks great" "looks fun" don't get moderators telling them so....
UnknownRobot
It’s true that nukes create visual noise which in return makes it harder to move around your units, particularly in 3v3 matches where it can quickly become a huge firework. Other effects are less overwhelming, and players should quickly get accustomed to them.
Shardex
Saying "turn down your graphic settings" would be a really bad argument, just in case someone tries.
The intention is obviously making it as look spectacular as possible but i think the average legal customer is above the age where this would blow you away. I even like how these beams look and pull units up, has an animelike style to it. But its totally out of proportion and unnecessarily hindering the gameplay, especially in 3v3 as shown here.
Gorb
So in the situation where multiple super-abilities are being used on the same location, that becomes too visually-confusing. Skipping over how DoW II had the same issue (because it's an older game, with similar issues, before people bring it up as a counter-example).
Are there are other times, or combinations?
@shmoulki
Baseline for posting on this forum is constructive. If you like something, you don't necessarily need to say why, because it's feedback that what the developers are doing doesn't need changing.
If you don't need to like something, it's useful to say why. Because otherwise the developers are left guessing, and could make further changes that you still don't agree with.
Shardex
Besides the ultimates i find the game reasonably readable, but the ultimates are visually too distracting, its aggravated in this example because its 3v3 but i have the same complaints in 1v1. The effects look nice, but the density is too high.
And i am a bit saddened it still is like this even after the feedback over the last few weeks.
Creature
I think in simplest terms the problem is that units can no longer be seen when some abilities are active, mostly the super abilities. I can't really think of any others besides those that have that effect by themselves. When a lot of abilities are firing simultaneously, they can also add up to make units hard to see - such as when Gorgutz spinning claw and the Deathwatch squad grenade thing are in the same area. The colors and effects and motions overpower the eyes and make the units indistinguishable in the blur.
Personally, I think the blue outline on units is a good solution to it and I'll for sure be using that. I know a number of people don't like the effect, but I'm hoping it can be made even a little stronger to make units pop more during those effects. For casual and immersive play, I'll turn them off, but for laddering they will be a must.
Something I've suggested in the past as well is that effects be turned down on the whole. They are pursuing a great idea with having higher threat abilities creating a lot of visual noise. The problem is that low threat abilities also create some noise. So when you start with a little visual noise on the lowest abilities, and gradually add to that noise as the ability becomes more and more threatening, you end up with blinding super abilities.
If the starting point was very light visual effects then the end point would be less overwhelming.
Of course, alongside this they are certainly balancing a desire to create explosive and intense fights, so I see the appeal of having strong visual effects. Just, as a guy who primarily likes RTS for the strategy and secondarily for the spectacle, I wish that the spectacle was turned down a little to make the tactics and strategy a bit easier (by being able to see units more clearly).
aWildUPSMan
This clip was the one that made me go "Yup still needs less bloom"
AlternativeIV
Maybe having friendly fire would solve the issue, then people would be more hesitant in dropping their ultimate's on their army and the enemies at the same time removing said cluster ++heresy redacted++ situations in this free fire zone :^ )
vindicarex
And that gif above me with the effects - shows 3 "nuke" abilities in effect as well as various armies still fighting it out. Wow, of course it looks like an overwhelming amount of effects are taking place because THERE IS A LOT OF STUFF HAPPENING IN THOSE 3 SECONDS of gameplay. But sure, take this as representative of the entire game and it's art design. If anything, this "evidence" proves exactly what I said weeks ago.
Edit: Actually 4 nukes in that vid. OH, C'mon Vindicare, how is this not obstrusive?
vindicarex
Maybe I'll take a 4v4 team fight of SC2 (with all sort of motherships, carriers, battlecruisers, nukes, etc) going off in a team fight and claim SC2 is "too cluttered."
Shardex
Show me a scene in Dota or Starcraft which is similarily clustered as what i have posted.
Also its not only about it being cluttered, its unneccessarily distracting from the important information.
Shardex
I didnt complain about the effects in general but this exact situation. There isnt much to argue about. 3v3 is the premier mode in Relics vision and its not only 3 seconds long. Totally reasonable critique.
Now youre just downtalking it as if anyone said THIS is evidence the WHOLE game is ++heresy redacted++.
vindicarex
Literally look up any 5v5 DOTA fight... dozens of abilities flying out in a matter of seconds. C'mon man be real - have you even played DoTA2 (or even LoL?).
vindicarex
Point being that I find DoW3 no more difficult to read than any other RTS/MOBA out there, and showing a few seconds of footage taking the effects on the game to the extreme (now 3v3 is the primer mode? says who? you? the new authority on how DoW is meant to be played guys!! As if this, even if true, makes your point any more valid). Maybe people like the massive effects.
g0ll0
I can't see anything lol.. I really don't see the "clarity" thing that relic is proud of... I see dow1 and even dow2 1000 times more clear
Shardex
And SC2 3v3 mass carrier is a mess, besides the massive fps drop, nobody needs that.
Can you judge the screen without comparing it? Can you not say, hm its unnecessary hard to read? What kind of argument is that even, bringing up other games that clutter the screen too?
Shardex
---LOL----
g0ll0
I did a lot... And I never had any trouble reading stuff in a fight however I played at high settings with no shadows... This game clearly has a "clarity" problem
Shardex
Dude, nobody said the game is hard to read in general, THIS exact situation with the ultimates is unnecessarily hard to read, Get it! Relic themselves stated over and over 3v3 is their main focus.
SC2 4v4 Carriers are mostly clusterfukk because of the amount of units, cant do much about it, here we are talking about the density of a few single spells. Youre not being any better right now than all the people complaining how bad the game is because it got some new elements, if you downtalk constructive critique. Accept it.
Yes maybe more people are liking the massive effects. Got to live with it then, i`ll still voice what i dont like about the game.
Shardex
I dont even think 3v3 will be the most popular mode, 1v1 is more likely. Philipp Boule himself just called 3v3 their figurehead (probably for balancing reasons)
My personal opinion is still the ultimates should be toned down a bit in density even in 1v1. An Eldritch storm is taking up a lot of screen space for quite a while. Besides that the game visually looks awesome and i really dig their artstyle.
g0ll0
I> @Shardex said:
1v1 should be the priority IMO is the most fun mode to watch and to play and balance should be arround 1v1
PhilthyPhilPhD
I definitely prefer playing 2v2 and 3v3s but when it comes to watching interesting matches, it has to be 1v1s. 1v1s have the best balance of being easy to follow and understand while also having the decisions and mistakes of players mattering the most. Having multiple players makes mistakes matter less because someone could theoretically pick up the slack. Team games, generally speaking, don't feel as dramatic. I want 3v3s to be balanced, but if 1v1s aren't interesting (I have no reason to believe they won't be) then my interest in the game as a spectator is greatly diminished.
Kingsley
I suspect 3v3 will be the most popular mode - historically the bigger modes in Dawn of War and Company of Heroes have often attracted more players - but 1v1 will be the "most competitive" mode.