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For those who don't agree with the Art style
aWildUPSMan
Thought I'd do a little compilation of images for those who disagree with the bright and colourful art style that DoW 3 has went for.
I'm pretty sure Boulle explains that part of the art style that was achieved in DoW 3 was to reiterate the TT. From my own local Games Workshop store and anytime I see models on the GW website, models and units are always brightly coloured, even the more war torn and battered ones that were intentionally painted as such.
I'm not saying you cannot disagree with the art style, hell it's not what I would have chosen as an art designer but there is sound logic behind it.
This "Grim dark 40K grittiness" that fans refer to, including myself from time to time really is created through the 40K literature and lore. The main IP which is the TT at the end of the day can sometimes reflect this but no in the way that fans truly imagine it.
For your consideration some of the best pictures I found online to iterate my point:
This last one is a bit of a cheat but just look at how bright Angelos is with the lighting effects from DoW 2:
If this game reflects the TT which it has intentionally set out to do, why are we trying to argue that it's not 40K?
This is still totally up for debate but I really just want to hit the issue on the head and get to the bottom of fan expectations surrounding DoW 3.
Comments
Shardex
If the tabletop wasnt as timeconsuming and expensive as it is, i would actually try to get into it again. Saw a video of Geoff Robinson (inControL) buying a imperial titan for about 1000$. The last time i played the TT is twenty years ago when i got me the basic box after a few months of delivering newspapers. But then i got into girls..
Now i got two of them plus a boy and still cant afford a titan, i'll stick to the digital version for 60€
Charon
I think a lot of people have nostalgia/rose tinted glasses when it comes to this new art style and animations you know.
Johnbonne
I think both art styles can be criticised; in the case of the 'gritty' one, I don't see it as well as cleaner models from a distance. We can also argue how well both styles age, with many criticising DoW2 for looking ancient (I've been playing it recently and still think it looks spectacular for what it is). With the more colourful version, or at least trying to emulate the tabletop.... well, that doesn't always work. Sanctus Reach has been criticised for trying to present itself like the tabletop, and while I like its environments that look hand-painted and blotchy, it doesn't suit the models all that well in my opinion, especially when they're animated. I fear the same thing might happen here. I've seen some screenshots where the finer details look like they're painted by someone who's abysmal at painting.
While I advocate for developers sticking to their guns about creative vision, I think there'll be some artists there who want the best of both worlds. I don't see a problem with them adding battle scarring to the models in a later patch or expansion as a graphical option.
I like both styles and they have their ups and downs. Sure, I'd prefer that "grimdark" look but it doesn't have to be in every game. Considering the first two games and their respective expansions went for it I'm OK with a change of pace. ^^
Renner
Its so grim and so dark I can't see a thing.
Shardex
Also dont forget, in DoW1 the terrain was much less detailed so the screen was pretty easy to read even with "grimdark" models or whatnot, in DoW2 we had much less going on, in DoW3 there is so much going on its only benefitting of the popping colors. You cant have everything in one product.
aWildUPSMan
GRIM DARK!
That gave me a good laugh thank you!
aWildUPSMan
Throwing my hat into the ring in terms of animations and particle effects, these fabulous looking beings shot bright pink flames of happiness at everyone.
The contrast though:
Dawn of War 2 always had beautiful colours if you ask me and it's pretty ++heresy redacted++ bright to add:
The Rose tinted glasses are definitely on for some.
Renner
Yeah, I'm replaying DoW2 games a bit nowadays, and its really REALLY hard to follow the cursor in 4k. Its so tiny half of the time I_have_no_idea_where_it_is. Then I'm like, ok, I'll push it into the lower right corner and try to follow it from there, but its lethal for your troops in the critical moments. Ugh. On the other hand, the one from DoW3 is really large and noticeable. I hope we'll get a UI scaller, so we can adjust to our needs.
RaspberryTurtle
Nah I don't buy they were going for a "more TT feel", rings as an Ad-Hoc excuse for making the game less graphically intensive so it can run on older hardware or maybe cheaper to develop. Which is fine, Relic want's to maximize as many players as possible. Having said that I think the game looks great! I don't mind the art style at all with the exception of the actual Space Marine models, they seemed to copy the goofy looking TT models instead of using the DoW2 proportions.
Shardex
Not to mention they have to leave some headroom open for releasing new Skins etc, right? If all models were megasuperdetailed by now, new skins werent as exciting. So they went with more "plain" textures. I would do the same.
Connatic
People mistake "nostalgia + low rez" for grim dark all the time. Look what happen to Diablo 3.
Grim bright is more like it. My eyes!!!
The models are inspired from the same table top models DoW 1&2 coppied. I think people are just exaggerating the point when they see the brighter colored special affects, and some of the over-the-top animations some of the heroes have. The overall style is very similar to the previous two and is very 40k.
ParanoidKami
Turn off post processing for DoW 2. Most people keep it off because leaving it on makes the game look abnormally shiny.
DoW 2 has bad UI scaling. At 1440p you can lose track of your mouse while playing and at 4k you can't see your minimap properly.
The DoW 3 cursor is so large because you'll lose track of it in large fights otherwise.
amarines
I think this discussion has missed the main issue people have with the art style and has approached the discussion from the wrong angle.
Traditionally the ++heresy redacted++-fest of these forums has been the maps themselves seem like a cartoon and are brightly colored which is a strong contrast to the famous tagline of "the grim darkness of the far future". Now this on it's own will likely incite rage from the average lore guardian, even I am bummed about it myself but I feel the new art has grown on me. The units themselves are not so much an issue as they are basically user-content generated, purely because we can make them any color we want in the army painter. I'm sure if someone has an intention to make a dark demonic army they can do that with simple color choice in the army painter, conversely if anyone wants a hot pink dreadnought or wraith lord then by all means go to town.
The comparisons made in this thread to the older games is rather irrelevant because we have been able to skin, custom icon and apply paid DLCs for majority of the DoW releases, meaning you can simply pick and choose the color combos in screenshots to fit your argument. If you actually look at the terrain and ground in the pictures @aWildUPSMan has shared (including the TT ones) you will notice very dark and grim landscapes in all of them as one would expect. That is what the discussion is and always has been about, this thread is misleading in the fact that the main issue are the units.
Czevak
Can I just say that one of the reasons why people are probably pissed at the art style of the game is cause of the sheer dark and grittiness of the announcement trailer followed by gameplay footage that looked exactly the opposite of what the trailer showed? The contrast between the two is more than apparent. People expected one thing and were displeased with what the game ACTUALLY looked like. Now I know that the trailer was CGI and what not and the gameplay is well, IN GAME, but it set peoples' expectations a little too high.
Orblivion
I think people are entirely too hung up on "grimdark" being a visual thing. There is a ton of official 40k content that is as visually at odds with the idea of grimdark as you can get, and none of it does anything to detract from the setting's tone IMO.
The atrocities that occur within the 40k setting on a daily basis and on a galactic scale don't become any less horrifying and vile if they happen to take place in a well-lit room.
aWildUPSMan
Ok but my discussion was aimed at the units. There's been multiple threads as you've referenced yourself discussing the maps and people are free to say what they like about them though personally they all look great to me so far.
A lot of people have been hammering about the units being too "clean and bright" which is primarily the main focal point of this thread.
I've not mislead anyone since my thread is as per what I just mentioned
juxstapo
heh, I seem to recall 'grimdark' being a reference to how everyone's ++heresy redacted++ is miserably, tragically... warHammered in 40k, not literally dark.
...someone do a mod for DoW1 or 2 where everything is colored John Blanche style.
Shardex
Just slap on a Sweetfx and turn everything down for the maximum GrimDarkness.
Gorb
Just a heads up - we can disagree with people without accusing them of making things up. A post has been vanished.
Moderator Post
redstar0001
Comrades! Is it really that I am confused by the huge size of the heroes in comparison with other soldiers? Could the developers make the size of the characters customizable?
DiasFox
I get confused to people saying Grim dark feel in video games lately. Its like people who keep saying Grim dark in videos games is make everything darkness. No colors, no bright lights...
Shardex
The first five minutes after waking up is the perfect GrimDark feel imo. Much better than any video game could transport.
Johnbonne
For me grimdark has less to do with lighting alone and more atmosphere. For example you can have a bright, sunny day but that can be horrific if it's going to scorch anything in its rays, and several buildings have been completely demolished by the heat alone. I've abused the term grimdark quite a bit on this forum, but what I'm looking for is those ruined buildings, bodies everywhere, skulls all over the place (skulls piled up with no bodies? And this is a recent battleground? Makes no sense!), plantlife that will kill the [pre-heresy redaction] out of people and carniverous paving stones. Yeah, ++heresy redacted++ right. Better watch out for those tumbling roof slates; they can decapitate a Carnifex! OK, that last one was silly, but my point remains: I want everything to be hostile and unwelcoming. If DoW3 can pull that off, it's done it right. Even if that means cold, unending night, toxic air (and guardsmen who were told by their Commissars that they were weak if they choked on the fumes, and cowardly for not cutting it down fast enough like a real soldier), warp-twisted natives and other races' presence from millenia ago, I'd call that grimdark. I hope we see that rather than a storm of neon, although in any other IP I'd welcome that. Warhammer: Age of Synthpop would be brilliant.
Stoner
You have some oversaturated screens, guys, DOW II wasn't that bright, and yeah, I'd turn down post processing a bit too...
Only thing that bothered me in DOW I is that SM and CSM had gorilla arms, unproportionally long for the bodies, but overall style pick for the game was simply amazing. Caught general mood of the gritty bloody war just about right. DOW II also had incredible design, far superior to DOW III. Fact is: there is MUCH more people unhappy about DOW III design than those who are fine with it. I don't remember so much complains about either DOW 1 or 2. That should give you some idea.
And lastly, please, stop this BS. Flipping Gabe and cartoony plastic units aren't there because game wanted to emulate TT. Game has absolutely NOTHING in common with TT, it's completely different thing, played by different rules and has different focus. Even if Relic kill themselves over it, they won't recreate TT in video game, it will completely destroy mechanics if they would. But if you want and like so much that DOW III units look like plastic models, why don't you vote against blood and gore or explosions? Because, you know, there's no blood and gibbed bodies flying around or some burning armor in TT, see? It's so obvious that they went for this design choice for the same reason why they borrowed certain ideas from MOBAs. How can you not see this is beyond me...
Orblivion
That's not what is being said at all. Relic said back when the first screenshots came out that they were going for a more painted miniature appearance for the models, it doesn't mean the game is trying to emulate the TT in its entirety.
aWildUPSMan
Again I'm mostly talking about the models looking like their TT counterparts. Other than that everything is up for debate elsewhere.
If GW suddenly gave Terminators the ability to front flip I doubt people would lose their minds over it as much as they are over Gabe flipping in this game. Then again.
Tilen
Now imagine a world populated with common sense like you exhibit. Bliss.
mauritos
https://www.dawnofwar.com/generated/img/NeQBdQhCLb5wrv2B-w1920-f00010ddc1799745a1a59517f9a060f7966d6ef1.jpg
this image looks very good,not cartoony as i thaught at beggining,dow2 was also very good little to shiny/sunny.