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Personal feedback/impressions of multiplayer
3 years ago
Stoner
Didn't want to hijack someone's thread and really want to keep place where most ppl can contribute constructive feedback and some opinions.
Played several matches. Start with bad :
- Balance feels pretty off. It covered in many threads already, hopefully will be addressed in future.
- Visual effects are way to flashy and it really cripples combat visibility pretty bad.
- Controls are sluggish, responsiveness is pretty low, some serious issues with unit pathing.
- No force melee function, and when you switch, it takes long before command issued and unit executes going melee (sometimes it doesn't even move).
- Default control scheme is pretty fine, but lack of keybinds in RTS is mindbogging.
- Army painter is BAD, it lack shitloads of functions/chapters/clans/insignias/etc. F.e. no halved/quartered armor schemes, and yes, this is VERY freaking important.
- Lacks loads of graphic options.
- New game mode is fine, but it brings absolutely nothing new, matches are still can be played 2-3 minutes or drag forever. When you lose few squads, enemy has more map control and he isn't idiot, there's no way for you to come out of that.
- Tutorial is useless and Codex doesn't say absolutely ANYTHING I really need to know. It covers stuff only for people who play videogame for the first time in their life...
Good:
- It has W40k models.
- Decision not to show enemy loadouts before match starts but only race is genious. Thank you.
- Ability to remove unit outline a.k.a silhouettes is great, but having circle under the squad instead wouldn't hurt.
- Big fat hope that game will get better in time (which is very small atm).
2
Comments
Stoner
Verdict: It is much better than DOW II, but far, FAR worse than DOW I. Game is incredibly unpolished, has TONS of both technical and balance issues and brutally lacks of content (yes, I'm aware about content available for Beta and Full release). It is not title you sell for $60, for what we get now, price should be $15 tops. If things pretty much stay the way they are now, it would be worst release of Relic game ever. I was very sorry for buying DOW II. I probably still gonna buy DOW III despite all these issues and will try to play more Beta, but if it will not greatly improve further down the road, it will be last title I ever buy from Relic. For all those who aren't dying from heavy Warhammer 40k withdrawal, I personally wouldn't recommend buying it right now.
SteelFaith
DoW III is far worse than DoW II, and DoW II was far better than DoW I for multiplayer.
They tried to please both crowds, and left out the best aspects of DoW II, and kept the worst aspects of DoW I.
Stoner
Reality doesn't agree with that...
SteelFaith
A stoner's reality, sure.
Stoner
Nope, there were few individuals who prefered DOW 2 over 1, but it's such a minority that doesn't even worth mentioning. Check player dropout and life cycle of both games, it should give you an idea. Funny thing is, right now balance wise DOW III has far less issues than vanilla DOW II with latest patch.
Wulfen55
I disagree Stoner. DoWII was a great game, the reason there may have been a player drop off was because of how different it was from the original. Friends of mine who loved DoW1 hated 2 because they lost and couldn't grasp the tactics. It can be frustrating but the more I got used to it, the more I found myself addicted to it.
DoW2 was a great success according to the majority of reviewers, even outscoring DoW1.
I disagree with some of your points, sorry but "halfed armour colour" is not important, this is nit-picking. And And it lacks chapters/clans/etc? Are you kidding? This game comes with the most chapters out of any DoW so far. Plus all the Ork Clans and Eldar craftworlds.
Tutorial and Codex are fine, I played through the tutorial and in just 3 games feel like I've already mastered the game. In my opinion the game is a bit too simple.
SteelFaith
So your opinion is not 'reality', sorry. DoW II had a better more refined MP, and it was made for MP. DoW I was mainly a casual comp stomp game, and it was great, but it was not made for MP at all. It's a fact DoW II was very popular and successful.
Even DoW II's sp campaign was better overall, except the DoW I story/narrative was amazing. The sandbox elements of DoW II's campaign will be sorely missed, and it's a shame they went back to a very linear style DoW I campaign ,where you beat it once, and you'll likely never play it again. Opposed to DoW II, Chaos Rising, and Retribution which was great for replayability.
Stoner
You keep neglecting real issues with the game and keep forwarding your personal opinion. I'm glad you liked DOW II so much, but as a product or game in W40k universe, it was a disaster. After THQ crumble, support of DOW II never restarted, just ask yourself why, when DOW I received 9 factions and 3 fullscale addons. DOW I was RTS, when DOW II was just small scale tactics. Some people might like tactics more, I won't argue, but it had much more casual and simplified mechanics in comparison to its predecessor. I have played from first DOW I release to the last Soulstorm patch, there were always tons of people online, and matches were very diverse and fun. If you didn't have any good matches, I'm sorry for you, but this game was born for MP and excelled there. Campaign in both games I found utterly boring and uninspiring, but have to point out that in DOW II AI is nonexistent. For that only reason, DOW I campaign might have been slightly more interesting. Also, please, launch Retribution right now and just check how many chapters and what paint schemes it has, than report back here. In DOW I from day one you could customize your banners and badges however you like with your own, so that was non-issue.
But really now, let's just stay on topic and discuss DOW III.
Larkis
Winning a game in 2-3 minutes. Roflmao.
Stoner
The more and more I'm playing it, more it turns me off. There just too many little quirks that spoil entire impression of the game. I really didn't like to say it, but on some level it feels like Starcraft a lot but with heroes and less emphasis on micro. Too many things missing, like you have to break off too often from combat to healup/reinforce, running around consumes time, clashes are much more lethal than they should have been. But I'd rather stay in combat as much as possible. I have no idea why did they remove transport units like Rhino to quickly reinforce units in battle. Building barracks in the middle of the map... seriously? And what if I need more mobile way to recuperate? Not much options really...Power core mode, on the other hand, isn't anything revolutionary here. It's same annihilation but with enforced objectives. Thankfully there is a way to avoid generators and just hit the base. It's a suicide, but possibility.
Also that's wired but I win 90% of matches vs SM but lose around 70% of matches vs Orks and Eldar. Maybe I'm just lucky, but it doesn't feel that way for some reason. Main problem I see here is that SM units are pretty expensive but in combat they are rather on the same level of their counterparts from other factions. That creates pretty unpleasant gap.
More good things:
Bad things:
g0ll0
Well that's why I'm afraid.. COH2 never got an optimization patch and this game is running in the same engine, it doesn't support SLi as well as coh2 and a lot of people are saying performance is bad... I just want other mode different from the moba because it's the only thing that stop me from play.. Played some games yersterday and that turret stop me all my games from wining fast, I hate that and always the same dark night maps....
g0ll0
Lol How dow2 was better than DOW1 for multiplayer? If I remenber well DOW1 had tons of players online and a lot of tournaments online in times were youtube wasn't a thing... I don't know if you are young and you never played dow1 but you should inform before post
Stoner
Okay, 90% of matches ends in 5-10(longest) minute window. Please tell me, what's the point of Power Core mode? Combat happens strictly on 2 lanes in 1v1, very rarely someone moves by the side and usually if you spot it, you intercept their units and butcher them, so it's not very productive. I barely ever touched generators, not even gonna mention turrets and barely go to t2 when longest match ends...
It's not complaint about game length if some might think, on contrary. it feels very natural for standard 1v1 RTS match, but some ppl here claimed that this mode will change it and you can somehow come back from big loses. No, you can't. On the rush note. It's funny, I've yet seen any tactics in mirror matches where SM didn't use Deathwatch and didn't pull majority of resources into big early game army. So basically every match plays like a rush. If you turtle or lock yourself up on the map it is auto-lose, because you will:
1. Most likely lose both gens.
2. Give enemy so many resources that he can build insane army and crush you.
In DOW I 1v1 you could have lesser early force and push tech, because most 1v1 maps were considerably bigger, which is pretty important.
Remark for Relic:
Gorb
CoH 2 got plenty of patches, various of which were aimed at optimisation. SLI / Crossfire support is a separate problem there, but let's not spread misinformation, eh?
Game engines are also a lot more complex than you give them credit for; this will absolutely not be the same engine (overall) that is currently used in CoH 2. Opinion post, not an instruction post.
g0ll0
I really don't remenber any single patch for optimization... I stopped playing coh2 for a year ill look for patch notes and come back to see if it is true but, I saw a lot of topics in coh2.org they were asking optmization patch for years
Seed_of_Power
Victory Points need to make a return.
This 3 stage tower mode has very poor back and forth and once you lost the early game contested points, you pretty much lost. Once a player has map advantage, they will tend to turtle until they ensure victory. There is no reason to assault a tower until you are ready.
g0ll0
Actually I had fun in some 1v1 but the turret turtle the game so hard... because even if you are wining you will not risk going for turret vs a decent player... I really think that if relic make other mode this game has potential becase the game is fun ultil you you see the turret and the ultimates(this should be remove or nerfed) I still feel the game very shallow and arcade... Probably I'll buy this when 4 races, more maps and different mode
Seed_of_Power
Right if you are winning you are not gonna risk attacking a turret and the game comes to a halt. Nether player are engaging one another, if you enjoy that kind of thing I guess that's cool. If they mix in Victory points it might be a nice compromise. Just something to keep the game engaging, instead of a turtle blob fest.
Renner
My God, what utterly horrible two games I just had. In the first one its hard to say which team was worse. My teammate dropping orbital beacons in the middle of the enemy blob for them to capture it, or opponents not moving their whole army patiently waiting for the Ork traktor beam to pull the largest rock from the orbit that wiped them out completelly. And they weren't fighting anything at that moment, mind you. Or the fact I dropped Solaria to help a teammate to deffend his post, and then he pulled all of his troops leaving Solaria completelly deffensless ending up pwnd hard.
In the second game one of ours was AFK for almost 15mins. Needless to say we were rolled. Randumbs, never again.
Imperator
After some games, I believe I have an impression of the game overall and so on. There are a few things that bother me and the games is not helping.
PRO:
- Nice animations and atmosphere
- Depending on the matchmaking may be a good or great game
- Nice idea to put the building on the whole map and not a certain area
CON:
- Space Marines are way to squishy
- Turtle in the "cover" bubble is ++heresy redacted++ against the Orkz since they have more life, more damage and are nimbler than any space marine squad and they outrun and kill 2-3 squads easily (especially early in the game)
- No surrender button
- Solaria isn't as strong as it should be (not even talking Imperial Knight lore wise)
- Turrets and core
Maybe after some things are done, more races and maybe more modes are out I'll consider buying the game. Considering the three games, it is easily bested by 1 and 2. It should have had the dimensions of 1 (army and map wise) and the brutality of 2 (grenades, cannons, cover). No game is perfect, but the bubble and moba style are a huge deal-breaker in my opinion.
Stoner
This is particularly crazy thing I would never even consider doing in normal circumstances, but I think I'll just have to switch to Orks before they do something sensible about SM. Currently they feel unfairly underpowered. Well, this plus the fact that I cannot play my main chapter, and I have no idea if I would ever be able to...
Regarding turtling, it's not an issue, it's a brutal humilation of opponent when he decides to suffer through it. It's so pointless to have these cores. I'm sure once they release classic Annihilation or Victory Point, Power Core will be lost in oblivion real quick.
I haven't touched team games yet because it usually looks as you conveniently described above mostly everywhere...
Stoner
Okay, I took my chances and just launched 3v3 game just out of curiousity. My God - THIS IS WARHAMMER 40k!
It's rather sad for me, but this entire game and this power core mode are built for team games only. It is utter ++heresy redacted++ in 1v1. I was lucky enough to have good teammates and opponents both. Battle was beyond epic, in some moments it felt like good old DOW I when Solaria and other super units dropped and started blasting each other. It doesn't look impressive in any videos I've seen but when you playing it yourself, there are so many interesting mechanics and synergies reveal themselves at every stage, almost unbelievable. Everything started make sense about this game.
Relic, please, do something for 1v1. We really need that mode to be as good as team modes, because there are bunch of people who prefer 1v1 over 2v2 or 3v3.
KanKrusha
Hey stoner, if they took out the turret for 1v1 would that work ? ( Still have shield generator you have to destroy before power core)
Sybarite
@Stoner just to clear up the DOW 1 has a lot more players is a bit silly. Steam chats records number of people playing http://steamcharts.com/search/?q=Dawn+of+war
Last 6 moths across all DOW 1 and DOW 2 games average was DOW 1: 1124 DOW 2: 1046 this average seems to be consistent most months before last stand update. Thus it has more players but I would not say it was clearly more DOW 1 fans.
As for DOW 3 I also agree 1v1 is an issue the other modes seem fine
Stoner
@Sybarite
Are you kidding me? You compare game from 2004 and 2009 which obviously indicates that one from 2004 STILL has slightly more players than one from 2009... Besides, DOW I came to Steam very late, long after end of it's lifecycle. Majority of its playerbase was on Gamespy, which isn't possible to monitor now. Retribution launched on Steam iirc away from GFWL BS. It was pretty big and popular release. You just proved my point better than I did. Player dropoff is just atrocious.
@KanKrusha
Honestly I don't think so. Those gens and turrets seem just pointless most of the time. As far as my experience goes, it rarely comes to destroying gens or going for base assault. I think vanilla mode for 1v1 must be either classic Anni or VP, I'm sure it would work better. But regarding VP, I don't think more points should be added on the map. But biggest issue I see on 1v1 is that map is too narrow and cramped, which doesn't really allow much strategical diversity and movement. It really feels like lanes.
On the other hand, Power Core fits perfectly for team matches. I have played few more, it really all feels very natural. Map size if fine, I don't feel like I'm moving in lanes. Synergy between faction is incredible. You have much more emphasis on combat and there are much less breaks from it overall. Basically you fight way more in 3v3 than in 1v1 on average. Fights are longer, more gruesome and epic. Generally it's way more fun, but personally I don't like team games. It's weird...
Game certainly has a potential to become one of the best W40k representation in video games, but it needs a lot of work.
Sybarite
Buddy all games have drop off after 1.5 years without new updates. After that time only fans are left, both games got moved at the same time in may 2014 and have had roughly the same amount snice (Dow 2 had a spike due to last stand content but should not be counted). Not only that, both have had roughly the same peaks as well over the 3 year mark I understand you may find it shocking that players like DoW 2 but some do. I turst numbers over what some people think are right.
Kalips
You hit the nail on the head here. But it's not only for 1v1 but for 2vs2 and 3vs3 also. It's really a matter of "pushing lanes" really hard and splitting doesn't really matter as your army lose a lot of strength if not grouped... It's a blob battle with a little of harass with small flanking unit.
Darth_Bacon
+1. Its 2017 for God's sake. We should be able to build our own.
motiv
Why compare Dow 1 and 2. They are different games. 1 is not better than the other as both have their niche.
I prefer the 1v1 to team games. Team games seem to involve turtling to the extreme.