@Bigamo said:
omg, orks are god tier, eldar mid tier and space marines useless as usual... Tacticals can't hold the ground against DA and orks is just a bad joke... gorguts is ++heresy redacted++ imortal and the weirdboy rapes the whole army with 2 skills... disapointed...:(
After all the abusive builds, ork blobs, weirdboy instakilling, ranger spams, there remained 2 SM players out of the 64 to dispute in the finals. Then I needed to ask bigamo this question:
Is there any organised list of twitch videos from the tournament to watch or does anyone have some links? I've only been able to find vids from Manawtf at the moment.
@ValKor01 said:
Is there any organised list of twitch videos from the tournament to watch or does anyone have some links? I've only been able to find vids from Manawtf at the moment.
I'm surprised there's not a centralized thread on this, if there is someone point me there or repost this - Trojan (2nd place). SM - Manawtf (lost in semifinal to Trojan). ORK https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQ9Q2XYaJn0G3zhur5J87WQ/videos - n0ave aka RTS Cult (lost in semifinal to tourney winner). Eldar
@ValKor01 said:
Is there any organised list of twitch videos from the tournament to watch or does anyone have some links? I've only been able to find vids from Manawtf at the moment.
I'm surprised there's not a centralized thread on this, if there is someone point me there or repost this - Trojan (2nd place). SM - Manawtf (lost in semifinal to Trojan). ORK https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQ9Q2XYaJn0G3zhur5J87WQ/videos - n0ave aka RTS Cult (lost in semifinal to tourney winner). Eldar
It's a shame there is no observer mode so we have to rely on a player recording/streaming and it being on their channel, I just wanted to see some more high level play. I remembered about VindicareX after I posted but not been back to say anything. I'll check those out, thanks again.
@Nemesis said:
Too early to speak about balance. 2 SM in the finals of beta tournament. Does it mean much? Probably not. But after few days of beta, it is hilarious to think everyone got grasp on the balance. People get outplayed all the time, and they blame balance...
Dayumn, dat Ranger spam looks very powerful! I was impressed with that win the Space Marine player grounded out.
Weirdboy's biggest nuke is not even close to undodgeable. It travels very slowly if he casts it at a distance. If he casts it up close, you can anticipate it by the animation. As for the scrap cone nuke, it doesn't do very much damage to heavy armor.
@PiggiesGoMoo said:
Weirdboy's biggest nuke is not even close to undodgeable. It travels very slowly if he casts it at a distance. If he casts it up close, you can anticipate it by the animation. As for the scrap cone nuke, it doesn't do very much damage to heavy armor.
yes, imo the ability should be reworked, projectile traveling faster but doing full damage in a smaller area, losing several not blobbed squads to a single skill is not super cool.
I don't think it needs a complete rework, but I would say it needs an indicator where it is going to land. It shouldn't be visible from the beginning, I was thinking it could be gradually appearing, starting mid-flight of the rock, being fully wvisible just before the landing. The reason is right now, even when you see and know the fist (or is it a foot?:)) is coming, given the izometric view, it's quite hard to tell where it's gonna land, especially when some elevation is Involved. I don't think not being able to tell where it is gonna land is the right difficulty for the game, so that's why I would like to see an indicator. Some sort of easily visible shadow under the rock would do as well.
@PiggiesGoMoo said:
Weirdboy's biggest nuke is not even close to undodgeable. It travels very slowly if he casts it at a distance. If he casts it up close, you can anticipate it by the animation. As for the scrap cone nuke, it doesn't do very much damage to heavy armor.
yes, imo the ability should be reworked, projectile traveling faster but doing full damage in a smaller area, losing several not blobbed squads to a single skill is not super cool.
Half of these elites tear through squads though. It's not just the weirdboy.
@PiggiesGoMoo said:
Weirdboy's biggest nuke is not even close to undodgeable. It travels very slowly if he casts it at a distance. If he casts it up close, you can anticipate it by the animation. As for the scrap cone nuke, it doesn't do very much damage to heavy armor.
yes, imo the ability should be reworked, projectile traveling faster but doing full damage in a smaller area, losing several not blobbed squads to a single skill is not super cool.
Half of these elites tear through squads though. It's not just the weirdboy.
Yeah, but none of them are as efficient as the weirdboy in doing so.
@PiggiesGoMoo said:
Weirdboy's biggest nuke is not even close to undodgeable. It travels very slowly if he casts it at a distance. If he casts it up close, you can anticipate it by the animation. As for the scrap cone nuke, it doesn't do very much damage to heavy armor.
yes, imo the ability should be reworked, projectile traveling faster but doing full damage in a smaller area, losing several not blobbed squads to a single skill is not super cool.
Half of these elites tear through squads though. It's not just the weirdboy.
Yeah, but none of them are as efficient as the weirdboy in doing so.
1 of the 4 new elites might be better? Who knows. Besides, as someone who uses the weirdboy his E (Gork's Fist) aka the ball is extremely slow moving and easily avoidable as long as you have vision on him.
The problem that I find is the range. You can cast into fog of war and with a rough idea of the enemy location you can land a devastating hit. So, I think at most the range should be nerfed, which, isn't what I'm seeing just a full rework.
I think the thing that upsets most people is the frustration that comes with some one lobbing a squad-wipe ability out of the FoW/Steam vents/etc. In general I think elites should be patterned closer to the the BigMek than the WeirdBoy; they have powerful support abilities but aren't able to just run up and blast a bunch of key units off the face of the earth.
I think you should be rewarded for a good flank with WBoy where you walk up and blast a bunch of nerds with your scrap blast or teleporting a bunch of waaaaghed nobz onto his blob of Wraithguard but I don't think it makes for a very fun experience when you evaporate a bunch of line infantry the second you arrive out of FoW.
I believe the best solution to this would be have abilities and spellpower effects scale with Escalation Phases. Eg;
In the later game it does ALOT of damage but its also up against units which may have been upgraded or of a higher tier. This would work for every Elite and would keep them from having that DOTA style power-spike/fall off.
@Andtaxes Weirdboy is a 3 point drop, and extremely squishy. Why would I want him to be strong late game when his purpose is to provide an early game presence?
As @KanKrusha mentioned, just don't let Fist of Gork be cast in Fog of War that's the only real issue that I can see. Everything else has counter play such as not blobbing up in a game that doesn't support blobbing. Because even if it isn't the Weirdboy some other elite is going to mow down your army that's blobbed together. Hell, my Mad Dread will mow down your blobbed army with it's cleave and guaranteed crit every 6th hit.
My example isn't great. I'm not saying completely neuter them in the early game, the exact number can be played with to keep them powerful but less wipey. I'd also propose that his scrap blast lose some damage but gain some support stats.
This is all ofcourse just my opinion because I don't care for burst damage as a selling point for an Elite. I'd like to see them augment more so than be straight up beat sticks.
My example isn't great. I'm not saying completely neuter them in the early game, the exact number can be played with to keep them powerful but less wipey. I'd also propose that his scrap blast lose some damage but gain some support stats.
This is all ofcourse just my opinion because I don't care for burst damage as a selling point for an Elite. I'd like to see them augment more so than be straight up beat sticks.
I understand that you may want less "my presence makes a change," which, I can understand. If Relic does go that route they'll have to revisit a lot of the elites, since Weirdboy is classified as a nuker/support. However, to a lesser degree I feel that ultimately we should wait until players have more time with the game and more time to learn how to play against each faction. I can probably bet you that a chunk of people who want X or Y nerfed is because they're misplaying somewhere, but if it's truly broken afterwards, than, yes I agree to a nerf (or a buff to others.)
@Bigamo said:
omg, orks are god tier, eldar mid tier and space marines useless as usual... Tacticals can't hold the ground against DA and orks is just a bad joke... gorguts is ++heresy redacted++ imortal and the weirdboy rapes the whole army with 2 skills... disapointed...:(
Build 1 squad of tactical marines.
Immediately build the assault marine building when starting the game.
Load up assault marines into a drop pod and use them once you've found 3-4 squads of ork boys. You've won the engagement. Tie up the melee and pull the tactical marines into range.
@Stoner said:
Do anyone find somewhat inconvenient that there are lots of places (surfaces) where you can't drop stuff?
just shoot in the scrap and it disapears leaving a crater where you can build over.
Yeah, well, I mean several times, when I ferociously stormed enemy forward base, I aim drop pod in the middle of their blob, but almost entire good hit zone is red because either edge of platform is near or some debris/buildings interfere. It's hard to be looking for available spot for drop while you have to micro your entire army in the heat of a battle. You didn't have this issue with SM? In DOW II I could drop pod almost anywhere iirc.
I really don't understand the QQ about the Weirdboy. His two most damaging attacks are super telegraphed and take a billion years to hit you - so...just...oh I don't know...move out of the way?
Menu
Comments
Delara
After all the abusive builds, ork blobs, weirdboy instakilling, ranger spams, there remained 2 SM players out of the 64 to dispute in the finals. Then I needed to ask bigamo this question:
http://tinypic.com/r/dy23nl/9
Sorry, Bigamo S2
Jelly
@Leeroy1986 If you have Jonah they'll have Ronahn so the trap won't work.
ValKor01
Is there any organised list of twitch videos from the tournament to watch or does anyone have some links? I've only been able to find vids from Manawtf at the moment.
Nayas
I'm surprised there's not a centralized thread on this, if there is someone point me there or repost this
- Trojan (2nd place). SM
- Manawtf (lost in semifinal to Trojan). ORK
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQ9Q2XYaJn0G3zhur5J87WQ/videos - n0ave aka RTS Cult (lost in semifinal to tourney winner). Eldar
brackets https://play.eslgaming.com/dawnofwar/europe/dow3/open/1on1-open-beta-cup-1-europe/rankings/
Some other streams that I saw playing the tourney is Cataclaw, VindicareX, KiF1rE.
ValKor01
Thanks for all that, great info!
It's a shame there is no observer mode so we have to rely on a player recording/streaming and it being on their channel, I just wanted to see some more high level play. I remembered about VindicareX after I posted but not been back to say anything. I'll check those out, thanks again.
Leeroy1986
Dayumn, dat Ranger spam looks very powerful! I was impressed with that win the Space Marine player grounded out.
PiggiesGoMoo
Weirdboy's biggest nuke is not even close to undodgeable. It travels very slowly if he casts it at a distance. If he casts it up close, you can anticipate it by the animation. As for the scrap cone nuke, it doesn't do very much damage to heavy armor.
iPhoneAppz
Just like every other RTS ever...your race needs buffs and the other races are OP.
Why not wait until the game is RELEASED before you start your qq.
CleanAndClear
I don't think it needs a complete rework, but I would say it needs an indicator where it is going to land. It shouldn't be visible from the beginning, I was thinking it could be gradually appearing, starting mid-flight of the rock, being fully wvisible just before the landing. The reason is right now, even when you see and know the fist (or is it a foot?:)) is coming, given the izometric view, it's quite hard to tell where it's gonna land, especially when some elevation is Involved. I don't think not being able to tell where it is gonna land is the right difficulty for the game, so that's why I would like to see an indicator. Some sort of easily visible shadow under the rock would do as well.
GenuineProdigy
Half of these elites tear through squads though. It's not just the weirdboy.
Delara
Yeah, but none of them are as efficient as the weirdboy in doing so.
GenuineProdigy
1 of the 4 new elites might be better? Who knows. Besides, as someone who uses the weirdboy his E (Gork's Fist) aka the ball is extremely slow moving and easily avoidable as long as you have vision on him.
The problem that I find is the range. You can cast into fog of war and with a rough idea of the enemy location you can land a devastating hit. So, I think at most the range should be nerfed, which, isn't what I'm seeing just a full rework.
RaspberryTurtle
I don't really mind the damage of scrap blast/fist of gork, Like others I think the maybe the telegraph and range of Fist could be tweaked.
Andtaxes
I think the thing that upsets most people is the frustration that comes with some one lobbing a squad-wipe ability out of the FoW/Steam vents/etc. In general I think elites should be patterned closer to the the BigMek than the WeirdBoy; they have powerful support abilities but aren't able to just run up and blast a bunch of key units off the face of the earth.
I think you should be rewarded for a good flank with WBoy where you walk up and blast a bunch of nerds with your scrap blast or teleporting a bunch of waaaaghed nobz onto his blob of Wraithguard but I don't think it makes for a very fun experience when you evaporate a bunch of line infantry the second you arrive out of FoW.
I believe the best solution to this would be have abilities and spellpower effects scale with Escalation Phases. Eg;
Scrap blast
Current Damage in beta : 200
Esc 0 : 100 damage
Esc 1 : 150 damage
Esc 2 : 250 damage.
In the later game it does ALOT of damage but its also up against units which may have been upgraded or of a higher tier. This would work for every Elite and would keep them from having that DOTA style power-spike/fall off.
KanKrusha
Or maybe just not allow it to be cast into fog of war???
GenuineProdigy
@Andtaxes Weirdboy is a 3 point drop, and extremely squishy. Why would I want him to be strong late game when his purpose is to provide an early game presence?
As @KanKrusha mentioned, just don't let Fist of Gork be cast in Fog of War that's the only real issue that I can see. Everything else has counter play such as not blobbing up in a game that doesn't support blobbing. Because even if it isn't the Weirdboy some other elite is going to mow down your army that's blobbed together. Hell, my Mad Dread will mow down your blobbed army with it's cleave and guaranteed crit every 6th hit.
PiggiesGoMoo
I don't see this as necessary, players should be punished if they have their units sitting in one spot long enough for you to bombard them.
Andtaxes
@GenuineProdigy
My example isn't great. I'm not saying completely neuter them in the early game, the exact number can be played with to keep them powerful but less wipey. I'd also propose that his scrap blast lose some damage but gain some support stats.
This is all ofcourse just my opinion because I don't care for burst damage as a selling point for an Elite. I'd like to see them augment more so than be straight up beat sticks.
GenuineProdigy
I understand that you may want less "my presence makes a change," which, I can understand. If Relic does go that route they'll have to revisit a lot of the elites, since Weirdboy is classified as a nuker/support. However, to a lesser degree I feel that ultimately we should wait until players have more time with the game and more time to learn how to play against each faction. I can probably bet you that a chunk of people who want X or Y nerfed is because they're misplaying somewhere, but if it's truly broken afterwards, than, yes I agree to a nerf (or a buff to others.)
Stoner
Do anyone find somewhat inconvenient that there are lots of places (surfaces) where you can't drop stuff?
Sigmatus
If you have not won, use your banner.
Stoner
Yeah, well, I mean several times, when I ferociously stormed enemy forward base, I aim drop pod in the middle of their blob, but almost entire good hit zone is red because either edge of platform is near or some debris/buildings interfere. It's hard to be looking for available spot for drop while you have to micro your entire army in the heat of a battle. You didn't have this issue with SM? In DOW II I could drop pod almost anywhere iirc.
White_Pointer
I really don't understand the QQ about the Weirdboy. His two most damaging attacks are super telegraphed and take a billion years to hit you - so...just...oh I don't know...move out of the way?
KanKrusha
Regards scrap does that mean I can put my boyz on the edge of scrap piles as an anti drop pod tactic?