well even my generous 4k skulls from campaign evaporated in all heroes unlocked (3900) and a handfull doctrines ^^.
Best thing would be if you have less to main a faction and stick with it till you have it completly unlocked.
Im sure Relic reads reddit even though they dont like to communicate. Just want to point to this thread and some of the solutions people come up with to gain exp and skulls for doctrines. They are probably working. Like afk farming against Orks etc but how silly is this. You should rethink the value of your skulls design, Relic/Sega.
Not sure your marketing research is working out for you.
Having to grind out single-player campaign missions (or cheesing custom games) to afford upgrades & elites in multiplayer doesn't make any sense to me. All of this should be available at the start to give everyone the same equal footing in multiplayer. Not only that, if you've invested your skulls in a faction but wish to try something else, you're at an objective disadvantage for not having access to all the doctrines & elites against someone that has.
Some may say this system is needed to keep players engaged, but I whole-heartily disagree.
Fun gameplay is needed to keep players playing, not restricting power-defining aspects of their armies behind an arbitrary time-gate. The first two games didn't have this "feature", and people were still "actively engaged" in multiplayer. I don't remember anyone on the forums saying "Man, Dawn of War would be a whole lot better if they locked out key units and passives in multiplayer behind a grind-wall"
Besides, if you do continue to play, you're going to get the skulls and have everything unlocked at the end anyway, so what's the point? Why not let people play the multiplayer they want to play on day one rather than have them grind out repetitive campaign missions or continuously trying to cheese the custom games to try to get through this needless grind?
It literally doesn't do anything but lock people out of options and waste their time. I don't really see how you could defend this as good design?
Wouldn't the skull system make more sense with cosmetics?
@Algorithm said:
Im sure Relic reads reddit even though they dont like to communicate. Just want to point to this thread and some of the solutions people come up with to gain exp and skulls for doctrines. They are probably working. Like afk farming against Orks etc but how silly is this. You should rethink the value of your skulls design, Relic/Sega.
Not sure your marketing research is working out for you.
Yeah i like relics currency idea. Just there isnt really much to buy on DoW 3.. I think people would accept skulls more if Relic wpuld have actually finished their game and started with alot of buyable stuff like emblems. Skins and unique colors.
They 'finished' their game, but it's bare bones. They could certainly do with more with the current framework they have, which to me is what is most promising.. Assuming they don't pull an Ubisoft and fail to deliver on content or patching..
Okay some more info. Playing campaign on any difficulty is very unreliable way to level up Elites. Sometimes they might get like 5 levels straight, but while I've been replaying it on Hard, there were several missions where my Elites got 0 exp, though I've been basically killing most stuff with them. Still it a good way to farm skulls. Hard missions are same as on Normal (in my experience no difference at all) and you get reliable 60 skulls after each mission.
Regarding exp farm, if you don't have any masochist friends who can send creeps to your Elite for hours to kill do this:
Choose 3v3 map Tantalus Station > Set High Resources > Add two Ork AIs vs you alone (I prefer Normal). Since AI is incredibly dumb, you can easily own them, especially if you play as Eldar.
As the match starts, get 4 workers, send 1 at middle point, another at middle-left and another on middle-right. Build structure which gives you heavy weapons teams on middle-left and right points (I prefer x2 anti-infantry x1 anti-tank) and set them up behind building for quick reinforce and to be hard to reach, only then build listening posts. Everyone else send in the middle, try to build there at least 2 infantry production building and listening post. Try to get elite gen and protect it if you have high cost elites. Keep 4th worker in base for upgrades building > t2 > vehicle building. When things calm down a bit, get something heavy (like Wraithguards or Dreadnought) and send them to take out enemy gens ASAP. Slowly upgrade every point to tier 3 and don't forget inf/veh upgrades too. Soon enough you'll be swimming in resources and at final escalation, you better take left and right points near enemy base, or they will be swarming you all the time. If you can keep up, don't touch it and just farm kills with Elites, when they are damaged, get them near production building to heal and hold off enemy with heavy weapons and vehicles, rinse, repeat.
This way I got 2 Elites from lvl 4 to lvl 7 and one to lvl 9, but it's brutally boring slog.
P.S. Some of my Elites are lvl 10 and keep getting exp. Any info on what is the level cap and is there any point leveling them up at all?
3v3 Vs. AI 1v1 Vs. AI for 7+ pt elites. People tend end the game prematurely before you get any real xp on your high point elites. I only did mission 7 but I have all elites and doctrines unlocked for space marines.
The fact this thread even needs to exist at all is a testament to how broken and asinine the current skull & Elite XP system is.
The fact it is also 'exploitable' through the use of custom maps, organised matches and the like also defeats the purpose of it existing at all.
I'm so sick of progression systems for the sake of a progression system. This adds no value to the game, other than unnecessary frustration.
Unless you plan to play the campaign again, I don't see there being any efficient solution to grinding exp for your elites. Unfortunately you'll get minimal skulls for this approach.
@Kharneth said:
You guys call it a grind because you feel entitled to the options available.
Purchase an elite or two that you think you'll enjoy. Grab the first 3 doctrines that you like. Have fun playing and enjoying the game and by the time you get bored of what you've got you'll have more skulls.
If they gave you all of these options from the onset you would grab the ones you like and possibly switch a couple times before just sticking with something. This gives us room to grow and experiment as we learn and enjoy. If you're grinding this game you're playing it wrong. You're entitled to play how you wish, but you shouldn't need to grind. You don't need to unlock everything. And you have months to unlock these things, why do you need them all in the first week of the game?
Edit It would've been nice if we got to select the 3 elites that we started with instead of being stuck with the dealer's choice, but whatever.
I feel 'entitled' to HAVING options and having a full experience with my purchased game, I don't think that's unwarranted, and using buzz words like 'entitlement' doesn't change that.
I have no way to accurately assess the doctrines and elites to know whether or not I will enjoy them without guessing from the 'info' tab. (There is no try mode and no SOLID stat information.)
Further, I don't know how elite presence doctrines work because there aren't ANY video demonstrations of them.
Why lock units behind an artificial wall? This isn't a free to play game? I didn't agree with it in CnC4, it was a huge failing on their part.. For Honor's characters were available VERY quickly via unlocks while cosmetics and stat changing gear was a grind, which I'm mixed about but elites should be very quick to be available.. And Rainbow Six Siege is another example of fast-ish unlocks.
I absolutely think 25-60 min matches not resulting in a content unlocks is a grind.. I don't have the time to sit at my computer all day playing, I work a career job and can only play casually after my daily tasks.
Is it game breaking and destroys the entire game? No. Is it more of an arbitrary artificial nuisance that doesn't seem 'fun', yes.
Cosmetics are fun to unlock, a base selection of characters, and ALL doctrines, not so much.
haha oh my god, that C&C 4 comment xDDD and yes, i totally agree with you. What the hell, untitled?... of all things.... the grind system is really not a good idea. I finally got my game since Relic took a week to ship the collectors edition..... campaign is a huge let down already. Can't wait to be let down even more xD
@Stoner said:
Yes, this is very um... strange system in RTS where I have to go through brutal grind to try new thing with my faction. After campaign I got ~2000 skulls and some elites at high level, when other haven't been used even once. After that I could buy all elites and most unlocked doctrines for 1 faction. I dread to imagine how much I should grind to get enough for another faction, because experience seems like being dependent on how much damage your Elite has done. I'm not sure if that's a joke from devs side, because anyone who has even slight experience in development, knows how screwed up this system must be. Ok, I'm done venting, now the question:
Anyone knows easy way to grind exp? Because by simply playing matches, it will take my ages to do it since in most 1v1 you usually don't get a chance to deploy 4+ point Elite like... ever.
Completing the campaing on Hard put all the primary commanders like gabriel macha and gorgutz at level 9.
@TripSin said:
apparently, you can use console dev cheat codes in a custom online game (makes it so your elites have no CD's and can be instantly summoned among other things) and you still get xp and crowns for the match.
@TripSin said:
They took away crown gain with the patch. I'm not sure about elite xp because I went ahead and maxed out mine before the patch dropped because I had a feeling the heretics at Relic would take away the XP gain as well in the patch.
What on earth is this?
Was this something that the players were asking for?
I just did a custom online 1v1 vs the AI to test this and I earned the same amount of skulls (20) and I earned xp on my elites. It might have been less elite xp, it's hard to tell. But you can still earn both from the AI.
@PhilthyPhilPhD said:
I just did a custom online 1v1 vs the AI to test this and I earned the same amount of skulls (20) and I earned xp on my elites. It might have been less elite xp, it's hard to tell. But you can still earn both from the AI.
This is odd, just tested it myself and didn't earn anything.
Wondering same thing too. Can't play right now, and if they cut exp or skull gain (which I haven't found any mention of in patch) makes it even worse. I mean seriously, dev pushing us to grind even harder in p2p AAA RTS? Madness...
@Stoner said:
Wondering same thing too. Can't play right now, and if they cut exp or skull gain (which I haven't found any mention of in patch) makes it even worse. I mean seriously, dev pushing us to grind even harder in p2p AAA RTS? Madness...
Its bugged to ++heresy redacted++ right now. I no longer receive skulls from any custom games, and I seem to be getting reduced exp for my elites overall. Also they no longer level up. The bar just goes to the far right and stays there. No levels or rewards gained.
I still got rewards for leveling up. I played custom online, basically making a private lobby, rather than doing custom solo. It seemed to work normally for me.
You can still earn exp/skull from their maps in Custom Online versus AIs, but no longer from workshop maps it seems.
If anyone can test with a friend if workshop with players still give exp?
Tested a grind map with 3 players vs AI, no skulls were awarded and very little XP for elite...
I don't even know why Relic would do that. If you enrf XP then make lvl 8 doctrine at lower level at least. Actually level 1 and 2 should be dotrine, this is a RTS not a farming game.
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Comments
PiggiesGoMoo
You only got 2000 skulls from the campaign? I got like 3300 from playing the campaign on Hard.
KommandantKavu
Give it like two weeks when we're all sitting on fat stacks of skulls and have nothing to spend it on.
Inkarnus
well even my generous 4k skulls from campaign evaporated in all heroes unlocked (3900) and a handfull doctrines ^^.
Best thing would be if you have less to main a faction and stick with it till you have it completly unlocked.
Algorithm
Im sure Relic reads reddit even though they dont like to communicate. Just want to point to this thread and some of the solutions people come up with to gain exp and skulls for doctrines. They are probably working. Like afk farming against Orks etc but how silly is this. You should rethink the value of your skulls design, Relic/Sega.
Not sure your marketing research is working out for you.
https://www.reddit.com/r/DawnOfWarIII/comments/68kzqo/having_to_unlock_doctrines_by_leveling_up_elites/
Handsome_Dan
Having to grind out single-player campaign missions (or cheesing custom games) to afford upgrades & elites in multiplayer doesn't make any sense to me. All of this should be available at the start to give everyone the same equal footing in multiplayer. Not only that, if you've invested your skulls in a faction but wish to try something else, you're at an objective disadvantage for not having access to all the doctrines & elites against someone that has.
Some may say this system is needed to keep players engaged, but I whole-heartily disagree.
Fun gameplay is needed to keep players playing, not restricting power-defining aspects of their armies behind an arbitrary time-gate. The first two games didn't have this "feature", and people were still "actively engaged" in multiplayer. I don't remember anyone on the forums saying "Man, Dawn of War would be a whole lot better if they locked out key units and passives in multiplayer behind a grind-wall"
Besides, if you do continue to play, you're going to get the skulls and have everything unlocked at the end anyway, so what's the point? Why not let people play the multiplayer they want to play on day one rather than have them grind out repetitive campaign missions or continuously trying to cheese the custom games to try to get through this needless grind?
It literally doesn't do anything but lock people out of options and waste their time. I don't really see how you could defend this as good design?
Wouldn't the skull system make more sense with cosmetics?
KommandantKavu
They 'finished' their game, but it's bare bones. They could certainly do with more with the current framework they have, which to me is what is most promising.. Assuming they don't pull an Ubisoft and fail to deliver on content or patching..
Stoner
Okay some more info. Playing campaign on any difficulty is very unreliable way to level up Elites. Sometimes they might get like 5 levels straight, but while I've been replaying it on Hard, there were several missions where my Elites got 0 exp, though I've been basically killing most stuff with them. Still it a good way to farm skulls. Hard missions are same as on Normal (in my experience no difference at all) and you get reliable 60 skulls after each mission.
Regarding exp farm, if you don't have any masochist friends who can send creeps to your Elite for hours to kill do this:
Choose 3v3 map Tantalus Station > Set High Resources > Add two Ork AIs vs you alone (I prefer Normal). Since AI is incredibly dumb, you can easily own them, especially if you play as Eldar.
As the match starts, get 4 workers, send 1 at middle point, another at middle-left and another on middle-right. Build structure which gives you heavy weapons teams on middle-left and right points (I prefer x2 anti-infantry x1 anti-tank) and set them up behind building for quick reinforce and to be hard to reach, only then build listening posts. Everyone else send in the middle, try to build there at least 2 infantry production building and listening post. Try to get elite gen and protect it if you have high cost elites. Keep 4th worker in base for upgrades building > t2 > vehicle building. When things calm down a bit, get something heavy (like Wraithguards or Dreadnought) and send them to take out enemy gens ASAP. Slowly upgrade every point to tier 3 and don't forget inf/veh upgrades too. Soon enough you'll be swimming in resources and at final escalation, you better take left and right points near enemy base, or they will be swarming you all the time. If you can keep up, don't touch it and just farm kills with Elites, when they are damaged, get them near production building to heal and hold off enemy with heavy weapons and vehicles, rinse, repeat.
This way I got 2 Elites from lvl 4 to lvl 7 and one to lvl 9, but it's brutally boring slog.
P.S. Some of my Elites are lvl 10 and keep getting exp. Any info on what is the level cap and is there any point leveling them up at all?
MajBumWhistler
3v3 Vs. AI 1v1 Vs. AI for 7+ pt elites. People tend end the game prematurely before you get any real xp on your high point elites. I only did mission 7 but I have all elites and doctrines unlocked for space marines.
chaotic_deamon
Best way to grind xp for elites is to make sacrifices to the dark lords.
Slaughter hordes and hordes of mindless ennemies in custom maps.
I made 2 maps on the workshop for grinding elites. Between 200k-300k xp for 15mins games
Feel free to check them out:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=921234512
Stoner
Jeez dude, I appreciate the effort but cut out the spam, ppl will find it either way.
XViper
The fact this thread even needs to exist at all is a testament to how broken and asinine the current skull & Elite XP system is.
The fact it is also 'exploitable' through the use of custom maps, organised matches and the like also defeats the purpose of it existing at all.
I'm so sick of progression systems for the sake of a progression system. This adds no value to the game, other than unnecessary frustration.
T_B0ne_Wills0n
@Stoner I haven't read through this whole thread and I'm not gonna get into if this system is shite or not. But here is a Steam Workshop map which is designed for grinding elite exp; http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=920219731
Unless you plan to play the campaign again, I don't see there being any efficient solution to grinding exp for your elites. Unfortunately you'll get minimal skulls for this approach.
T_B0ne_Wills0n
Aye that looks way better for grinding, and more control for when you actually just want to end the game!
BigFatJerk
haha oh my god, that C&C 4 comment xDDD and yes, i totally agree with you. What the hell, untitled?... of all things.... the grind system is really not a good idea. I finally got my game since Relic took a week to ship the collectors edition..... campaign is a huge let down already. Can't wait to be let down even more xD
Proenca
Completing the campaing on Hard put all the primary commanders like gabriel macha and gorgutz at level 9.
T_B0ne_Wills0n
@TripSin Wait... You get Elite points for taking down the enemy's shield generator?... Me so ++heresy redacted++
T_B0ne_Wills0n
Huh. aparently N O O B is heretical
T_B0ne_Wills0n
That is pure, unadulterated, Heresy right there!
Kushan101
What on earth is this?
Was this something that the players were asking for?
"Give us fewer ways to earn skulls please"?
Bersercker
Wtf did Relic reduce the xp gain? Just killed like 100 boyz squads with Taldeer on that map and only got enough exp to get from level 3 to level 4.
PhilthyPhilPhD
I just did a custom online 1v1 vs the AI to test this and I earned the same amount of skulls (20) and I earned xp on my elites. It might have been less elite xp, it's hard to tell. But you can still earn both from the AI.
Kushan101
This is odd, just tested it myself and didn't earn anything.
xixcel
Can anyone confirm if you can still farm elite XP through custom map after patch?
Stoner
Wondering same thing too. Can't play right now, and if they cut exp or skull gain (which I haven't found any mention of in patch) makes it even worse. I mean seriously, dev pushing us to grind even harder in p2p AAA RTS? Madness...
ShadowNet
Just tested it out, normal maps (not from workshop) still give skulls.
Czevak
Its bugged to ++heresy redacted++ right now. I no longer receive skulls from any custom games, and I seem to be getting reduced exp for my elites overall. Also they no longer level up. The bar just goes to the far right and stays there. No levels or rewards gained.
PhilthyPhilPhD
I still got rewards for leveling up. I played custom online, basically making a private lobby, rather than doing custom solo. It seemed to work normally for me.
chaotic_deamon
You can still earn exp/skull from their maps in Custom Online versus AIs, but no longer from workshop maps it seems.
If anyone can test with a friend if workshop with players still give exp?
Irenicus
Tested a grind map with 3 players vs AI, no skulls were awarded and very little XP for elite...
I don't even know why Relic would do that. If you enrf XP then make lvl 8 doctrine at lower level at least. Actually level 1 and 2 should be dotrine, this is a RTS not a farming game.
xixcel
I was so excited trying out the grind map after work
It's gonna take so long to level up to unlock all elite army doctrines by playing normal games...