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Resource Upgrades, what are they good for? 3v3?
Silveran
So lets consider this using some numbers?
OK So gen and incomes vary wildly, after testing to get said numbers to make this post, things change depending on players (for instance in 3v3 a Req gen is 30 per player, while in 1v1 a Req gen is 60, also power is different etc etc). I also found a glitch with the AI, as they get a billion upgrades to cheat or something. All that being said lets consider some basic stuff. I think this is correct, feel free to correct me if its not.
-Assuming a 1v1 map, say Port Saunderus
-Base income is 260R 25P
-Once a Resource Node is upgraded, it is permanently upgraded (so if you lose a T3 node, it stays T3 for your opponent).
-All Req Gens give a base of 60R, 1st Req gen is 20P, each additional gen costs 20 + 7 * (number of req gens)
-All Power Gens give a base of 25P, 1st Power gen is 80R gives 25P, each additional gen costs 80 + 16 *(number of power gens)
-All 3 Resource upgrades are 250R 50P and takes 45 secs to upgrade.
-Your Req income increases by 15R per gen the upgrade affects (this appears unaffected by escalation).
-Your Power income increases by 6 per gen the upgrade affects (this appears unaffected by escalation).
**
So assuming the above is actually true for a normal 1 power, 1 req resource node no matter WHEN or WHICH upgrade you get it will take you over 16 mins to regain that lost Req and over 8 mins to regain that lost power. So presumably investing into resources upgrades before Escalation 1 is a big blunder. Also if you upgrade contested points and the enemy takes it, congratz you just saved them 250R and 50P per resource upgrade you invested.
What does this mean? To me this means upgrading resources before at least Escalation 1 will give you a massive resource deficit for a looong time. Infact what I infer is getting the resource upgrades in 1v1 may just be a complete waste as you will need to CONTROL the point for at least 8 minutes to start getting a return on power, so if you say upgrade a resource point at 6 minutes, you will get no power back until over 14 mins and no Req back until over 22 mins.**
**
Basically if your games aren't going at least 25 minutes you are 100% better off never getting the upgrades period.**
Comments
Silveran
Originally was responding to other post about resource upgrades/unit upgrades, figured new post made more sense.
Silveran
Bumping. Apparently this wasn't useful for anyone?
Vodacce
This is useful informations, but not much to comment from eldar perspective.
May be post that stuff on a general thread ?
Anyway ! Thanks I actually used that in some some argument with friends. =p
Silveran
Well it was originally in regards to the guy asking about upgrades vs resources, but somehow when i went to edit something the reply got deleted and i couldnt post it again. Also if I posted it in general then the orkz/marines would know and clearly no one wants that.
ForrestFox
Oh snap, I didnt know the enemy took over my upgrades! Thats terrible, I will strongly reconsider upgrading middle points from now on and stick with the ones that I can strongly defend near my base o_O
HohesHaus
That information is usefull thank you.
Solstice
This is very good to know, Thanks.
silvtown
I think determining whether or not escalation affects the output is important.
Power Gen. Rates/Minute:
* 25 power (Esc. I)
* 31 power (Esc. 1 w/ resource upgrade)
* 37.5 power (Esc. II)
* 46.5 power (Esc. II w/resource upgrade **if escalation affects it)
With the resource upgrade and escalation bonus rate, you would get your power money back in just a couple of minutes. Plus, since the additional resource upgrades cost the same, but the 25% bonus is being applied to larger and larger rates, I would think that the value goes up as you max out the generator.
However, if escalation does not affect it, like you believe, then yes, I'm not sure when you should grab the resource upgrades in 1v1, if at all...
Razzlie
It seems like a bug or oversight if the upgrades really can't be affected by escalation.
Are you certain it really doesn't scale with escalation at all?
FakeSweden
@Silveran l was the one who initially make the other post about resource vs upgrade
lt depends, the more l play the more l tend to go with 2 quick Req upgrades. People are getting better to spread out, so a Massive 2 banshe squad strike doesn't kill their entire army as much anymore, depends on the map.
Even with 2 Req upgrades, l should still have enough power for a hp, dmg or quick strike upgrade depending on the situation, and with the double Reg upgrade, l can get more special squads out like Banshe and Dark Reapers.
Silveran
So its not affected for a reason after thinking about the math
A base Req gen is 60R/Min, always assuming a base 1-1 (req/power) resource nodes.
Each escalation increases this amount by 50%, every resource upgrade by 25%. These percentages are additive, so the formula to get your income per gen is
Req Gen income = Req Gen base of 60 * (1+( # of escalations * 0.5 + # of resource cards the node the gen is on * 0.25)).
For escalation 0, but resource upgrade 1 we have
60 * (1 + 0 * 0.5 + 1 * 0.25) = 75 OR we can do this simply as 60 * 1.25 = 75
For escalation 1, but resource upgrade 1 we have
60 * (1 + 1 * 0.5 + 1 * 0.25) = 105 OR we can say we have 50% from escalation 1 and 25% from resource upgrade 1, for a total of 75% increase, so 60 *1.75 = 105
HohesHaus
Have you tried it out? I mean playing vs. bad AI and upgrading just one Req Gen and see the income?
If the note upgrades aren't scaling, I see no reason to upgrade them.
Silveran
I didn't just "try it out" I tried it out multiple times, multiple escalations, various gens, Req and Power.
HohesHaus
Thank you for your work and time
silvtown
**[copied from Silveran's post]
For escalation 0, but resource upgrade 1 we have
60 * (1 + 0 * 0.5 + 1 * 0.25) = 75 OR we can do this simply as 60 * 1.25 = 75
For escalation 1, but resource upgrade 1 we have
60 * (1 + 1 * 0.5 + 1 * 0.25) = 105 OR we can say we have 50% from escalation 1 and 25% from resource upgrade 1, for a total of 75% increase, so 60 *1.75 = 105**
and:
For escalation 1, and no resource upgrade we have
60 * (1 + 1 * 0.5) = 90 OR we can say we have 50% from escalation 1, so 60 *1.5 = 90
So are you saying that one requisition generator provides 90req/min in Escalation Phase II whether or not you've gotten the resource upgrade?
Thanks for working on this!
Silveran
So one requisition gen in escalation 2 provides 60 * (1+(0.5 *2)) = 120
One requisition gen in escalation 2 provides the above 120 + 15 * # of resource upgrades
135 w/ 1 upgrade
150 w/ 2 upgrades
165 w/ 3 upgrades