@Algorithm said: @DeathAttacker
Your feedback is completely worthless. Primagoosa just wasted his time trying to talk as an adult to you. Shut up or bring evidence.
If you are interested then you'd get of your lazy ++heresy redacted++ and search for it yourself. I'll give you some help, the interviewer was a guy called Luetin.
I already told you, if you are going to stake a claim about something, the onus to prove yourself is on you. Until then, we can safely assume you are just trying to stir up trouble by making outrageous claims of being offended.
I know you are not that stupid that you cannot find a video when I have given you the name of the interviewer and stated it was the FIRST interview given by Relic.
I was testing you as anyone who was genuinely interested in feedback would have been able to find the video with a quick google search.
For anyone else who is reading this thread, here is the actual interview which was posted 8 months ago,
The comments section should explain everything you need to know regarding the feeling from the community at the time.
I don't even know what to say about you "testing" us. Is this how you act towards strangers in real life? You try to run subtle tests constantly to find out whether they care enough to do all the work for you?
If you really cared about giving valuable feedback, you would have been prepared with concrete support to your arguments. You think good feedback is being vague and having us guess what you mean and hoping we guess correctly? Do you think that sort of feedback gets you what you want? All you're doing is leaving yourself easy exits from the conversation, and all I'm doing is walking down the hall closing them in an attempt to get you to actually support what you're saying.
Engage in the discussion. Stop the hit-and-run tactics.
Despite that, I bet I can guess where your thin skin was punctured: 10:18 in that first video where he says "...I think he can jump". In fact, I'd put money on it.
Your concept of "respect" is so appallingly one-sided that it is almost beyond belief. I've seen this phenomenon on other forums as well where the community can say whatever they want however viciously they want with however little information they want, but the second there's a 5 second clip anywhere, or a 1 paragraph post anywhere, with a member of the developing company who is even a teensy bit sarcastic or playful, it's an immediate uproar. It's called "unprofessional", "disrespectful", it's proof that the developer doesn't care about the community, etc. etc. etc.
I understand and agree with all of the arguments he put forward for all of the design decisions they made. They are sensible arguments, and it's OK to disagree with them if you want the game to go another direction, but to say the community was disrespected?
I don't even know what to say about you "testing" us. Is this how you act towards strangers in real life? You try to run subtle tests constantly to find out whether they care enough to do all the work for you?
If you really cared about giving valuable feedback, you would have been prepared with concrete support to your arguments. You think good feedback is being vague and having us guess what you mean and hoping we guess correctly? Do you think that sort of feedback gets you what you want? All you're doing is leaving yourself easy exits from the conversation, and all I'm doing is walking down the hall closing them in an attempt to get you to actually support what you're saying.
Engage in the discussion. Stop the hit-and-run tactics.
Despite that, I bet I can guess where your thin skin was punctured: 10:18 in that first video where he says "...I think he can jump". In fact, I'd put money on it.
Your concept of "respect" is so appallingly one-sided that it is almost beyond belief. I've seen this phenomenon on other forums as well where the community can say whatever they want however viciously they want with however little information they want, but the second there's a 5 second clip anywhere, or a 1 paragraph post anywhere, with a member of the developing company who is even a teensy bit sarcastic or playful, it's an immediate uproar. It's called "unprofessional", "disrespectful", it's proof that the developer doesn't care about the community, etc. etc. etc.
I understand and agree with all of the arguments he put forward for all of the design decisions they made. They are sensible arguments, and it's OK to disagree with them if you want the game to go another direction, but to say the community was disrespected?
Insanity.
When discussing in this thread I am reminded of this quote.
"Never argue with an idiot they'll drag you down to their level and beat you through experience"
I've been in enough forums to know that a fanboy is not rational, they will spin / deride any point you make to try and counter it no matter how valid the criticism.
The difference is that I have stated I think the game is OK, and it has potential for improvement, whereas you and Algorithm are blinkered in your devotion, and take any criticism of the game as a personal attack, and so it is natural for you to never concede any point and spit personal attacks at those who make them. I don't take it personally, I actually feel sorry for you and Algorithm.
The reason the game hasn't reviewed well on Steam is due to Relic being arrogant and derisory towards the 40K and DOW community from the beginning. To quote some of the top comments on the video.
"So basically they're brushing off enormous swathes of their fans concerns, burying their heads in the sands, and carrying on making a game that people are largely disappointed with! Great!" (79 likes)
"The excuses they give aren't even logical. The best one was - warhammer 40k is crazy! So it doesn't matter if were off the mark a 'little' on the lore - That was literally a massive ++heresy redacted++ you to the whole GW game's and more importantly any fan of the series."
"And business models that throw the very customers under the bus that supported the IP since its inception to further the misguided imaginations of the developers who say '40k is a crazy universe' 'so that's how we justify jumping terminator armour'"
"ya i got this whole sense of " now there are alot of complaints, I dont agree with any of them just for the record, and they are just being nit picky bitches what do you think? well yes i agree they are nit picky bitches.""
@TripSin said:
Deathattacker, you are just wasting your time with people like Primagoosa and Algorithm. They are likely Relic employees or shills or are just players whose minds are obstinate unmalleable in their unwavering defense and praise of this game. It would make sense for them to be Relic employees given how they don't care about and ignore the many criticisms players have with the game's design and how they think they know better than the actual players even though the players were constantly and are still constantly explaining to them how and why they hate this game.
Another incredible "you don't agree with us, so you must be a paid actor" philosophy laid bare. Do you really think it's impossible to disagree with you? That you hold a holy and infallible argument about how the game should be? That anyone who agrees with you is a brother on the crusade against the evil that is Corporations, and anyone who disagrees is a Satan figure trying to seduce your brothers away from the grand crusade?
You know what's extra insane, @TripSin? I'm actually engaging @DeathAttackerin an attempt to get to the bottom of his criticism of Relic's behavior, and he's the one avoiding supporting his point. I still had to guess his grievance in the video he linked, and after all that pomp and circumstance, the Relic dev was playfully sarcastic.
I provided plenty of feedback in the closed beta on features and design decisions that I thought could be improved or I thought could pose issues. TSMs not measuring up as starting units, having powerful/necessary doctrines gated behind Elite XP resulting in people mindlessly grinding in AI skirmishes before they feel like they can play, issues with being able to hear certain sounds through the fog of war (like Space Marine buildings announcing which units were arriving), persistent bodies moving through the fog of war as the Walker Elites stomped through them, allowing you to trace their movement.
I was there, providing the feedback to try to fix the game. Yes, the game has its faults, and the design direction isn't for everyone.
But grow up and be an adult about it, especially when you don't get your way.
@DeathAttacker So was I correct? Was it 10:18 in the video that got you up in arms? You never actually responded, you just slipped back into trying to insult me and make assumptions on my opinions of the game.
And you're using YouTube comments as the basis of your argument? A bunch of overly-sensitive responses to a game that isn't doing what they like, and so they assume they are being disrespected because how could anyone decide to make a game that doesn't meet each community member's own personal criteria?
@PrimaGoosa
They dont understand the language of reason and insight. They want to have that view of the world and will not change their mind on it, atleast not publicly in this forum. And if they would change their mind, they think they would lose their face if they actually admitted they could be wrong and nothing will change that. Dont waste your time.
@Algorithm said: @PrimaGoosa
They dont understand the language of reason and insight. They want to have that view of the world and will not change their mind on it, atleast not publicly in this forum. And if they would change their mind, they think they would lose their face if they actually admitted they could be wrong and nothing will change that. Dont waste your time.
Every once in a while it isn't about winning. It's just about fighting this thin-skinned ad hominem style of argumentation that decides it can say whatever it wants, support nothing, and claim the other person is blind.
The impossibly hypocritical stance on respect is what galls me the most.
Holy crap the irony of that quote DEATHATTACKER. ''"Never argue with an idiot they'll drag you down to their level and beat you through experience"''
The irony is killing me xD
You and tripsin both seem just bent on avoiding actually having a conversation, every time points against your arguments are brought up you try to steer the conversation another way or simply repeat what you have already said while leaving the arguments unanswered.
@TripSin said:
Deathattacker, you are just wasting your time with people like Primagoosa and Algorithm. They are likely Relic employees or shills or are just players whose minds are obstinate unmalleable in their unwavering defense and praise of this game. It would make sense for them to be Relic employees given how they don't care about and ignore the many criticisms players have with the game's design and how they think they know better than the actual players even though the players were constantly and are still constantly explaining to them how and why they hate this game.
I'm not trying to say they don't have a right to love and praise the game, I'm just saying it's ridiculous to ignore the fact that a lot of people hate this game and have good reason to. And it was wrong on the part of Boulle and the rest of the development team to act like they know what players want more than they players do. Just look at the likes to dislikes on those videos. You can't argue with simple, obvious numbers. Well, in this day and age lots of people like to deny reality so I can guess really you can argue that facts are indeed not facts now.
You're right - can't argue with numbers. Majority of steam reviews are positive. I predict it will also only rise with time as the initial 0.5 hours played kneejerk negatives have already cast their vote. It is odd that people who so strongly dislike a game continue to hover and malinger around its forums though - I guess they have nothing better to do in their life? Giving constructive criticism is great - it's also pretty rare from people who don't like the game though. Full disclosure: not a Relic employee.
And it was wrong on the part of Boulle and the rest of the development team to act like they know what players want more than they players do.
There are much more eloquent and insightful ways to say this, but it has already been done over and over in the forums: Relic isnt your bit** who has to act as you or you or i like. They can decide how they want to create their game. They also will take the responsibility for its success or failure, not you.
If you want to be taken serious by devs, A. Vote with your wallet. B. Bring proper feedback. I bet you still bought the game. And how worthless this kind of feedback and unfounded statements are, you guys have laid out once again in this thread.
Man, Algorithm has actually criticized the game on multiple occasions and now Algo is being accused of being a shill or an employee? Luuuulz. This thread needs to be closed.
And it was wrong on the part of Boulle and the rest of the development team to act like they know what players want more than they players do.
There are much more eloquent and insightful ways to say this, but it has already been done over and over in the forums: Relic isnt your bit** who has to act as you or you or i like. They can decide how they want to create their game. They also will take the responsibility for its success or failure, not you.
If you want to be taken serious by devs, A. Vote with your wallet. B. Bring proper feedback. I bet you still bought the game. And how worthless this kind of feedback and unfounded statements are, you guys have laid out once again in this thread.
I've given my feedback to Relic, you can check my posting history if you are actually interested. You forget that this forum has been open for a year, and most of you are just rehashing the same tired old stuff that has already been done to death.
In this thread the question posed was why this game is failing hard on Steam. I just pointed out to the OP and readers who are interested my opinion (from experience) as to why this has happened.
Instead of wallowing in your self importance just have a look on the youtube video I linked. In the comments it was predicted by nearly everyone that the game would not please people.
No one owes you or Relic a thesis on why they don't like the game, I have no idea why people of such little consequence on this forum seem to think they can aggressively demand a fully detailed analysis of criticisms of the game from people.
If you think I am wrong, then let me turn the tables and ask you for a fully detailed account of were you think Relic has listened to our feedback. I won't expect any response from people who could not be bothered to do a simple google search for a video.
@DeathAttacker said:
I've given my feedback to Relic, you can check my posting history if you are actually interested. You forget that this forum has been open for a year, and most of you are just rehashing the same tired old stuff that has already been done to death.
In this thread the question posed was why this game is failing hard on Steam. I just pointed out to the OP and readers who are interested my opinion (from experience) as to why this has happened.
Instead of wallowing in your self importance just have a look on the youtube video I linked. In the comments it was predicted by nearly everyone that the game would not please people.
No one owes you or Relic a thesis on why they don't like the game, I have no idea why people of such little consequence on this forum seem to think they can aggressively demand a fully detailed analysis of criticisms of the game from people.
If you think I am wrong, then let me turn the tables and ask you for a fully detailed account of were you think Relic has listened to our feedback. I won't expect any response from people who could not be bothered to do a simple google search for a video.
See? Thats why i dont believe in reasoning with this type of person.
@DeathAttacker said:
I've given my feedback to Relic, you can check my posting history if you are actually interested. You forget that this forum has been open for a year, and most of you are just rehashing the same tired old stuff that has already been done to death.
In this thread the question posed was why this game is failing hard on Steam. I just pointed out to the OP and readers who are interested my opinion (from experience) as to why this has happened.
Instead of wallowing in your self importance just have a look on the youtube video I linked. In the comments it was predicted by nearly everyone that the game would not please people.
No one owes you or Relic a thesis on why they don't like the game, I have no idea why people of such little consequence on this forum seem to think they can aggressively demand a fully detailed analysis of criticisms of the game from people.
If you think I am wrong, then let me turn the tables and ask you for a fully detailed account of were you think Relic has listened to our feedback. I won't expect any response from people who could not be bothered to do a simple google search for a video.
See? Thats why i dont believe in reasoning with this type of person.
Care to elaborate on your accusation? Your responses are becoming nonsensical as expected when put under any pressure.
Also I am still waiting for your detailed analysis of where you think Relic has listened to our feedback. Until that is forthcoming from I think I have done more than enough to backup my original point. I have provided examples and links to source material as requested, and I do not have unlimited time to spend explaining this any further with you.
And it was wrong on the part of Boulle and the rest of the development team to act like they know what players want more than they players do.
There are much more eloquent and insightful ways to say this, but it has already been done over and over in the forums: Relic isnt your bit** who has to act as you or you or i like. They can decide how they want to create their game. They also will take the responsibility for its success or failure, not you.
If you want to be taken serious by devs, A. Vote with your wallet. B. Bring proper feedback. I bet you still bought the game. And how worthless this kind of feedback and unfounded statements are, you guys have laid out once again in this thread.
I've given my feedback to Relic, you can check my posting history if you are actually interested. You forget that this forum has been open for a year, and most of you are just rehashing the same tired old stuff that has already been done to death.
In this thread the question posed was why this game is failing hard on Steam. I just pointed out to the OP and readers who are interested my opinion (from experience) as to why this has happened.
Instead of wallowing in your self importance just have a look on the youtube video I linked. In the comments it was predicted by nearly everyone that the game would not please people.
No one owes you or Relic a thesis on why they don't like the game, I have no idea why people of such little consequence on this forum seem to think they can aggressively demand a fully detailed analysis of criticisms of the game from people.
If you think I am wrong, then let me turn the tables and ask you for a fully detailed account of were you think Relic has listened to our feedback. I won't expect any response from people who could not be bothered to do a simple google search for a video.
Define "failing hard". Compared with what? Please quote applicable statistics with comparables like Dow2 and CoH2 at release and a week after launch.
@DeathAttacker said:
Care to elaborate on your accusation? Your responses are becoming nonsensical as expected when put under any pressure.
Also I am still waiting for your detailed analysis of where you think Relic has listened to our feedback. Until that is forthcoming from I think I have done more than enough to backup my original point now. Unfortunately I do not have unlimited time to waste on this discussion.
Before you get a detailed analyis or reply you still have to point out, where Relic has treated you arrogantly etc. Dont you realize, that most of the game was already done, when that video came out? Do you think they should have redone all the assets, models etc because you dont like it? Do you do that in real life too, demanding everything being catered to YOU and if its not people are arrogant?
You are nothing but a little small spoiled brat who thinks he is smart.
But you are not smart. You are embarassing yourself.
Instead of wallowing in your self importance
Thats actually what you do.
Come back when you got some sense.
@DeathAttacker said:
No one owes you or Relic a thesis on why they don't like the game, I have no idea why people of such little consequence on this forum seem to think they can aggressively demand a fully detailed analysis of criticisms of the game from people.
If you think I am wrong, then let me turn the tables and ask you for a fully detailed account of were you think Relic has listened to our feedback. I won't expect any response from people who could not be bothered to do a simple google search for a video.
After the first weekend of the closed beta, Relic modified Scout Snipers and Rangers to halve their damage per shot, but double their rate of fire. It was a common complaint that it was too strong because back then, the hit and run did twice as much damage per burst, and the burst was a big problem. They immediately responded, gave reasons why they made the changes they made (they didn't want to tweak actual damage numbers too much, so the DPS remained roughly the same, but the change they made affected the style of play), and it was testable in the second weekend of the closed beta.
That was just off the top of my head, and it was only one of the changes they made after that first weekend.
Is it really so much to ask for you to defend yourself after you make a statement of apparent fact? I don't even think I said that Relic treats its community well, nor did I ever say the community specifically wasn't ever disrespected. I just told you I didn't trust you, and I asked you for proof. Time and again.
And you still haven't confirmed if his comment at 10:18 after talking for a bit about Gabriel Angelos being able to jump was the part of the video that really felt disrespectful. You just squirm all over the thread trying desperately to not be pinned to an argument of substance, instead hoping to just forever deal in the intangibles and whims of subjectivity.
I'm honestly surprised you haven't told us all that we can't tell you what to believe or how to feel yet. But pro tip: once you say that, I'm going to tell you that I can't tell you not to feel disrespected, but I can take a look at the source of disrespect and tell you that I think you're being extraordinarily thin-skinned and petulant.
And what I wanted out of the OP, which it appears he is actually interested in providing to help move the conversation forward constructively, is an analysis to support his claims of the game dying. I don't think we've established that the game is suffering yet. All we know is that the anti-hype movement successfully poured the negative reviews on thick in Steam, and the majority of the reviews are still positive.
The biggest issue with numbers is that you can massage them to tell whatever story you want. So in a YouTube video of ~10,000 views and 450ish dislikes covering topics people were already in a tizzy about interviewing the developer who didn't grovel and promise reparations, I would fully expect that sort of dislike campaigning. Anything DoW 3-related that came out on YouTube was swarmed. What does it mean? It certainly means some people are dedicated, but how much does it take for a person to decide to like a video vs. disliking a video?
Community Update: May 4, 2017
5. MAI - KAT_RE
Hi everyone!
With one week – and millions of bodies[www.dawnofwar.com] – behind us, we want to say a huge thanks to each of you for joining us on the battlefield of Dawn of War III. After years of development behind the scenes, it’s a thrill to see you dive back into the universe, whether you’re ripping humies limb from limb, or are bringing down the hammer upon filthy xenos!
So, what happens now? Well, our work doesn’t stop just because the game is out. We’ve been busy poring over all of your feedback[community.dawnofwar.com] and sharing your gameplay videos around the studio. Now that the game is in your hands, we’re excited to let you play a role in how it evolves. Welcome to the team!
To that end, we’ve got some upcoming news for you below with more to come next week.
Patch
On Monday, we’ll get the ball rolling with our first patch. This will address some of the bugs and issues you’ve flagged with us (so long, invisible Bonesinger!) but will also include the addition of a Surrender option in Multiplayer. We give special props to those players who chase a comeback to the bitter end, but we certainly want to give you the option to concede. If you surrender, you’ll receive Skulls and experience as if you lost the match. Check back on Monday for the full patch notes!
Servers
On Tuesday, we’re taking aim at some of the input lag being reported. Thanks for your patience on this, and for sending in your feedback. We have servers in multiple regions around the world, but we've found that some players aren't connecting to the servers closest to them. On Tuesday, we'll start to refine which servers specific regions connect to based on latency data from the first week of play. We’re going to keep an eye on this and tune it over time.
Balance
Later this month, we’re rolling out our first balance patch. It’s too early to give specifics but right now we’re looking carefully at units that players are skipping over (looking at you, Tactical Marines…), abilities that seem harder to counter (ahem… Zapnoggin’s teleport), and the factors that affect whether you can come back from a loss in an early match skirmish (how escalation phases are working).
Now’s the perfect time to let us know what you’re seeing, and how you’re playing. Striking the right balance takes time, but your feedback is really helpful.
We’re watching, reading and listening. Keep it up!
I've posted my opinion with explanation and source material to back it up as requested, I'll leave it at that and take from it what you will. I'm not concerned about convincing you are anyone else, my opinion was in answer to the op.
The Ops claim is his, and his to back up. I tend to agree though given the large number of negative reviews.
Just a word of advice, it is natural to disagree with points, but resorting to name calling and vitriol at anyone who voices a criticism will not aid good feedback and will not be good for the game which you seem to so passionately care about.
@DeathAttacker said:
I've posted my opinion with explanation and source material to back it up as requested, I'll leave it at that and take from it what you will. I'm not concerned about convincing you are anyone else, my opinion was in answer to the op.
The Ops claim is his, and his to back up. I tend to agree though given the large number of negative reviews.
Just a word of advice, it is natural to disagree with points, but resorting to name calling and vitriol at anyone who voices a criticism will not aid good feedback and will not be good for the game which you seem to so passionately care about.
And Just a word of advice to you, just shut up when its time to.
@DeathAttacker In all the time you've spent reiterating yourself and calling people fanboys you could have just went and gotten the ++heresy redacted++ evidence in link and quote form.
@DeathAttacker said:
Just a word of advice, it is natural to disagree with points, but resorting to name calling and vitriol at anyone who voices a criticism will not aid good feedback and will not be good for the game which you seem to so passionately care about.
I had a post eaten by the Edit grinder, but for someone who constantly calls their opponent a fanboy and insinuates idiocy, I find this comment interesting.
And trying to get people to explain their feedback is specifically to try to make it good feedback in order to benefit the game positively. Not all feedback is useful.
@steinernein said:
Man, Algorithm has actually criticized the game on multiple occasions and now Algo is being accused of being a shill or an employee? Luuuulz. This thread needs to be closed.
I unfortunately agree.
A few things.
Personal attacks, from anyone, aren't acceptable. It doesn't matter how valid you think your reasoning, or how much you think you've suffered to that point. Next time, every single person involved will get a warning. We weren't here to de-escalate, so I'm sorry for that, and there's obvious antagonism that is a factor here. But please, no personal attacks.
This goes for inferring people are paid for their opinions on the forum, too.
This is not a forum that supports people trying to be clever and setting other players "challenges" of any kind. Be straightforward, provide sources, and don't turn a discussion into an elitist game. That's not the kind of community attitude we want to create, here.
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Comments
Algorithm
Ok, little keyboard warrior, lets get real. You got no evidence.
PrimaGoosa
I already told you, if you are going to stake a claim about something, the onus to prove yourself is on you. Until then, we can safely assume you are just trying to stir up trouble by making outrageous claims of being offended.
Why would anyone just believe you on your word?
DeathAttacker
I know you are not that stupid that you cannot find a video when I have given you the name of the interviewer and stated it was the FIRST interview given by Relic.
I was testing you as anyone who was genuinely interested in feedback would have been able to find the video with a quick google search.
For anyone else who is reading this thread, here is the actual interview which was posted 8 months ago,
The comments section should explain everything you need to know regarding the feeling from the community at the time.
Algorithm
Testing us..Dude nobody is taking you serious. I knew you meant that video. And now exact moment please. Oh man, this guy.
What is the problem with Philip Boulle's statements?
PrimaGoosa
@DeathAttacker
I don't even know what to say about you "testing" us. Is this how you act towards strangers in real life? You try to run subtle tests constantly to find out whether they care enough to do all the work for you?
If you really cared about giving valuable feedback, you would have been prepared with concrete support to your arguments. You think good feedback is being vague and having us guess what you mean and hoping we guess correctly? Do you think that sort of feedback gets you what you want? All you're doing is leaving yourself easy exits from the conversation, and all I'm doing is walking down the hall closing them in an attempt to get you to actually support what you're saying.
Engage in the discussion. Stop the hit-and-run tactics.
Despite that, I bet I can guess where your thin skin was punctured: 10:18 in that first video where he says "...I think he can jump". In fact, I'd put money on it.
Your concept of "respect" is so appallingly one-sided that it is almost beyond belief. I've seen this phenomenon on other forums as well where the community can say whatever they want however viciously they want with however little information they want, but the second there's a 5 second clip anywhere, or a 1 paragraph post anywhere, with a member of the developing company who is even a teensy bit sarcastic or playful, it's an immediate uproar. It's called "unprofessional", "disrespectful", it's proof that the developer doesn't care about the community, etc. etc. etc.
I understand and agree with all of the arguments he put forward for all of the design decisions they made. They are sensible arguments, and it's OK to disagree with them if you want the game to go another direction, but to say the community was disrespected?
Insanity.
DeathAttacker
When discussing in this thread I am reminded of this quote.
"Never argue with an idiot they'll drag you down to their level and beat you through experience"
I've been in enough forums to know that a fanboy is not rational, they will spin / deride any point you make to try and counter it no matter how valid the criticism.
The difference is that I have stated I think the game is OK, and it has potential for improvement, whereas you and Algorithm are blinkered in your devotion, and take any criticism of the game as a personal attack, and so it is natural for you to never concede any point and spit personal attacks at those who make them. I don't take it personally, I actually feel sorry for you and Algorithm.
The reason the game hasn't reviewed well on Steam is due to Relic being arrogant and derisory towards the 40K and DOW community from the beginning. To quote some of the top comments on the video.
"So basically they're brushing off enormous swathes of their fans concerns, burying their heads in the sands, and carrying on making a game that people are largely disappointed with! Great!" (79 likes)
"The excuses they give aren't even logical. The best one was - warhammer 40k is crazy! So it doesn't matter if were off the mark a 'little' on the lore - That was literally a massive ++heresy redacted++ you to the whole GW game's and more importantly any fan of the series."
"And business models that throw the very customers under the bus that supported the IP since its inception to further the misguided imaginations of the developers who say '40k is a crazy universe' 'so that's how we justify jumping terminator armour'"
"ya i got this whole sense of " now there are alot of complaints, I dont agree with any of them just for the record, and they are just being nit picky bitches what do you think? well yes i agree they are nit picky bitches.""
PrimaGoosa
Another incredible "you don't agree with us, so you must be a paid actor" philosophy laid bare. Do you really think it's impossible to disagree with you? That you hold a holy and infallible argument about how the game should be? That anyone who agrees with you is a brother on the crusade against the evil that is Corporations, and anyone who disagrees is a Satan figure trying to seduce your brothers away from the grand crusade?
You know what's extra insane, @TripSin? I'm actually engaging @DeathAttacker in an attempt to get to the bottom of his criticism of Relic's behavior, and he's the one avoiding supporting his point. I still had to guess his grievance in the video he linked, and after all that pomp and circumstance, the Relic dev was playfully sarcastic.
I provided plenty of feedback in the closed beta on features and design decisions that I thought could be improved or I thought could pose issues. TSMs not measuring up as starting units, having powerful/necessary doctrines gated behind Elite XP resulting in people mindlessly grinding in AI skirmishes before they feel like they can play, issues with being able to hear certain sounds through the fog of war (like Space Marine buildings announcing which units were arriving), persistent bodies moving through the fog of war as the Walker Elites stomped through them, allowing you to trace their movement.
I was there, providing the feedback to try to fix the game. Yes, the game has its faults, and the design direction isn't for everyone.
But grow up and be an adult about it, especially when you don't get your way.
PrimaGoosa
@DeathAttacker So was I correct? Was it 10:18 in the video that got you up in arms? You never actually responded, you just slipped back into trying to insult me and make assumptions on my opinions of the game.
And you're using YouTube comments as the basis of your argument? A bunch of overly-sensitive responses to a game that isn't doing what they like, and so they assume they are being disrespected because how could anyone decide to make a game that doesn't meet each community member's own personal criteria?
Algorithm
@PrimaGoosa
They dont understand the language of reason and insight. They want to have that view of the world and will not change their mind on it, atleast not publicly in this forum. And if they would change their mind, they think they would lose their face if they actually admitted they could be wrong and nothing will change that. Dont waste your time.
PrimaGoosa
Every once in a while it isn't about winning. It's just about fighting this thin-skinned ad hominem style of argumentation that decides it can say whatever it wants, support nothing, and claim the other person is blind.
The impossibly hypocritical stance on respect is what galls me the most.
Grahell
Holy crap the irony of that quote DEATHATTACKER. ''"Never argue with an idiot they'll drag you down to their level and beat you through experience"''
The irony is killing me xD
You and tripsin both seem just bent on avoiding actually having a conversation, every time points against your arguments are brought up you try to steer the conversation another way or simply repeat what you have already said while leaving the arguments unanswered.
Ekko_Tek
You're right - can't argue with numbers. Majority of steam reviews are positive. I predict it will also only rise with time as the initial 0.5 hours played kneejerk negatives have already cast their vote. It is odd that people who so strongly dislike a game continue to hover and malinger around its forums though - I guess they have nothing better to do in their life? Giving constructive criticism is great - it's also pretty rare from people who don't like the game though. Full disclosure: not a Relic employee.
Algorithm
There are much more eloquent and insightful ways to say this, but it has already been done over and over in the forums: Relic isnt your bit** who has to act as you or you or i like. They can decide how they want to create their game. They also will take the responsibility for its success or failure, not you.
If you want to be taken serious by devs, A. Vote with your wallet. B. Bring proper feedback. I bet you still bought the game. And how worthless this kind of feedback and unfounded statements are, you guys have laid out once again in this thread.
steinernein
Man, Algorithm has actually criticized the game on multiple occasions and now Algo is being accused of being a shill or an employee? Luuuulz. This thread needs to be closed.
DeathAttacker
I've given my feedback to Relic, you can check my posting history if you are actually interested. You forget that this forum has been open for a year, and most of you are just rehashing the same tired old stuff that has already been done to death.
In this thread the question posed was why this game is failing hard on Steam. I just pointed out to the OP and readers who are interested my opinion (from experience) as to why this has happened.
Instead of wallowing in your self importance just have a look on the youtube video I linked. In the comments it was predicted by nearly everyone that the game would not please people.
No one owes you or Relic a thesis on why they don't like the game, I have no idea why people of such little consequence on this forum seem to think they can aggressively demand a fully detailed analysis of criticisms of the game from people.
If you think I am wrong, then let me turn the tables and ask you for a fully detailed account of were you think Relic has listened to our feedback. I won't expect any response from people who could not be bothered to do a simple google search for a video.
Algorithm
See? Thats why i dont believe in reasoning with this type of person.
Take your psychotic hatetrain somewhere else.
DeathAttacker
Care to elaborate on your accusation? Your responses are becoming nonsensical as expected when put under any pressure.
Also I am still waiting for your detailed analysis of where you think Relic has listened to our feedback. Until that is forthcoming from I think I have done more than enough to backup my original point. I have provided examples and links to source material as requested, and I do not have unlimited time to spend explaining this any further with you.
Ekko_Tek
Define "failing hard". Compared with what? Please quote applicable statistics with comparables like Dow2 and CoH2 at release and a week after launch.
Algorithm
Before you get a detailed analyis or reply you still have to point out, where Relic has treated you arrogantly etc. Dont you realize, that most of the game was already done, when that video came out? Do you think they should have redone all the assets, models etc because you dont like it? Do you do that in real life too, demanding everything being catered to YOU and if its not people are arrogant?
You are nothing but a little small spoiled brat who thinks he is smart.
But you are not smart. You are embarassing yourself.
Thats actually what you do.
Come back when you got some sense.
PrimaGoosa
After the first weekend of the closed beta, Relic modified Scout Snipers and Rangers to halve their damage per shot, but double their rate of fire. It was a common complaint that it was too strong because back then, the hit and run did twice as much damage per burst, and the burst was a big problem. They immediately responded, gave reasons why they made the changes they made (they didn't want to tweak actual damage numbers too much, so the DPS remained roughly the same, but the change they made affected the style of play), and it was testable in the second weekend of the closed beta.
That was just off the top of my head, and it was only one of the changes they made after that first weekend.
Is it really so much to ask for you to defend yourself after you make a statement of apparent fact? I don't even think I said that Relic treats its community well, nor did I ever say the community specifically wasn't ever disrespected. I just told you I didn't trust you, and I asked you for proof. Time and again.
And you still haven't confirmed if his comment at 10:18 after talking for a bit about Gabriel Angelos being able to jump was the part of the video that really felt disrespectful. You just squirm all over the thread trying desperately to not be pinned to an argument of substance, instead hoping to just forever deal in the intangibles and whims of subjectivity.
I'm honestly surprised you haven't told us all that we can't tell you what to believe or how to feel yet. But pro tip: once you say that, I'm going to tell you that I can't tell you not to feel disrespected, but I can take a look at the source of disrespect and tell you that I think you're being extraordinarily thin-skinned and petulant.
And what I wanted out of the OP, which it appears he is actually interested in providing to help move the conversation forward constructively, is an analysis to support his claims of the game dying. I don't think we've established that the game is suffering yet. All we know is that the anti-hype movement successfully poured the negative reviews on thick in Steam, and the majority of the reviews are still positive.
The biggest issue with numbers is that you can massage them to tell whatever story you want. So in a YouTube video of ~10,000 views and 450ish dislikes covering topics people were already in a tizzy about interviewing the developer who didn't grovel and promise reparations, I would fully expect that sort of dislike campaigning. Anything DoW 3-related that came out on YouTube was swarmed. What does it mean? It certainly means some people are dedicated, but how much does it take for a person to decide to like a video vs. disliking a video?
Algorithm
From the DOWIII steam page:
Community Update: May 4, 2017
5. MAI - KAT_RE
Hi everyone!
With one week – and millions of bodies[www.dawnofwar.com] – behind us, we want to say a huge thanks to each of you for joining us on the battlefield of Dawn of War III. After years of development behind the scenes, it’s a thrill to see you dive back into the universe, whether you’re ripping humies limb from limb, or are bringing down the hammer upon filthy xenos!
So, what happens now? Well, our work doesn’t stop just because the game is out. We’ve been busy poring over all of your feedback[community.dawnofwar.com] and sharing your gameplay videos around the studio. Now that the game is in your hands, we’re excited to let you play a role in how it evolves. Welcome to the team!
To that end, we’ve got some upcoming news for you below with more to come next week.
Patch
On Monday, we’ll get the ball rolling with our first patch. This will address some of the bugs and issues you’ve flagged with us (so long, invisible Bonesinger!) but will also include the addition of a Surrender option in Multiplayer. We give special props to those players who chase a comeback to the bitter end, but we certainly want to give you the option to concede. If you surrender, you’ll receive Skulls and experience as if you lost the match. Check back on Monday for the full patch notes!
Servers
On Tuesday, we’re taking aim at some of the input lag being reported. Thanks for your patience on this, and for sending in your feedback. We have servers in multiple regions around the world, but we've found that some players aren't connecting to the servers closest to them. On Tuesday, we'll start to refine which servers specific regions connect to based on latency data from the first week of play. We’re going to keep an eye on this and tune it over time.
Balance
Later this month, we’re rolling out our first balance patch. It’s too early to give specifics but right now we’re looking carefully at units that players are skipping over (looking at you, Tactical Marines…), abilities that seem harder to counter (ahem… Zapnoggin’s teleport), and the factors that affect whether you can come back from a loss in an early match skirmish (how escalation phases are working).
Now’s the perfect time to let us know what you’re seeing, and how you’re playing. Striking the right balance takes time, but your feedback is really helpful.
We’re watching, reading and listening. Keep it up!
Algorithm
I am often harsh in my critic myself, but this is some good info. Thanks Relic.
DeathAttacker
I've posted my opinion with explanation and source material to back it up as requested, I'll leave it at that and take from it what you will. I'm not concerned about convincing you are anyone else, my opinion was in answer to the op.
The Ops claim is his, and his to back up. I tend to agree though given the large number of negative reviews.
Just a word of advice, it is natural to disagree with points, but resorting to name calling and vitriol at anyone who voices a criticism will not aid good feedback and will not be good for the game which you seem to so passionately care about.
Algorithm
And Just a word of advice to you, just shut up when its time to.
Jelly
@DeathAttacker In all the time you've spent reiterating yourself and calling people fanboys you could have just went and gotten the ++heresy redacted++ evidence in link and quote form.
PrimaGoosa
I had a post eaten by the Edit grinder, but for someone who constantly calls their opponent a fanboy and insinuates idiocy, I find this comment interesting.
And trying to get people to explain their feedback is specifically to try to make it good feedback in order to benefit the game positively. Not all feedback is useful.
Gorb
I unfortunately agree.
A few things.
Thread locked.