@Seizon said:
Yeah, this meta of people basically only make ASM is so unfun. I hate playing against SM because of that and I am SM myself. There is 0 diversity in the matchup.
Its just that tacticals are so ++heresy redacted++ underperforming early in the game and ASMs plus doctrines so overperforming that people are spamming them.
Even with solarias fire on the move and terminators frag doctrine i wonder how well tacticals would stack up too ASM.
I tried it with both doctrines and they don't fare much better. The "grenade" is a joke and they lose "fire on the move", when you upgrade them with plasma guns.
ASM are mostly fine and pretty easy to counter with different types of units. I find microed skimmers to be extremely hard for them to deal with since you can keep them out of their melee range while doing huge damage to infantry in general and working around their jumps thanks to that mobility.
If a nerf should occur it should simply be on the upgrade for power sword. Either make it a one time upgrade per unit like the plasma/flamethrower but then reduce its cost or just move it to T2.
What they also could and should do, is buff the tactical marines, especially their DPS and maybe give them some melee option (they are SM after all) and change the cost of assault marines to be more power hungry, like 400/35 or even 400/50 but with even better ASM.
This would force you to think before deploying a multitude of ASM because it would slow down your tech, but allow you to get a significant advantage early on.
@ApNw said:
ASM are mostly fine and pretty easy to counter with different types of units. I find microed skimmers to be extremely hard for them to deal with since you can keep them out of their melee range while doing huge damage to infantry in general and working around their jumps thanks to that mobility.
If a nerf should occur it should simply be on the upgrade for power sword. Either make it a one time upgrade per unit like the plasma/flamethrower but then reduce its cost or just move it to T2.
What they also could and should do, is buff the tactical marines, especially their DPS and maybe give them some melee option (they are SM after all) and change the cost of assault marines to be more power hungry, like 400/35 or even 400/50 but with even better ASM.
This would force you to think before deploying a multitude of ASM because it would slow down your tech, but allow you to get a significant advantage early on.
You cannot wall the only T1 melee line units of a race behind 35power cost. Your other ideas are fine, though. Current cost for vanilla ASM is ok, the issues are swords and leap, as many ppl have already stated.
Eldar are OP, banshee charge is broken nonsense that can oneshot whole squads, wraithspam is cheese, scorpions are imba, shields are too strong but thats not excuse for generating more OP stuff, this game needs general balance, not giving one race instant win button because the other has it too.
Space marines are really poorly designed, their early part is super weak while their late tiers are godlike. Basically all infantry is poor joke, TACs do nothing, their upgrades bring more negative aspects than actually useful ones, Devastators are similar while lascanon devs are not worth even for trolling. Same goes for early elites, DW is just glorified TAC squad and Jonah is somewhere on level of sanctioned psyker from IG. At the same time DN/VenDN are op as hell, terminathor elites are no joke to play against etc.
ASM are the only useful infantry the SM have and not because of its venerable dreadnought doctrine, which is good only for fast traveling around, faster than their Q, not because they have some super high damage or something because of their true damage but because, thanks to true damage, they dont care if they fight core, morkanaut or servitor, making them viable spam in any part of the game.
They could be fixed by bringing overall balance to the game. Make TACs viable, rework elites, balance all races in way that will make ASM good but not instarush. Rework how Power Sword works, make it similar to antiflyers so they would get some damage bonus/armor penetration against infantry or vehicles not against everything. It was said that core/gen should exist to prevent early rushes and then there is true damage that can take down main objectives in first few minutes of the game. Move it to tier 2 thats probably the best choice, its strong permanent upgrade that brings no downside so its too strong to be accessible so early. Remake it completely, add swords/fists/claws/maces etc. similar to flamer/plasma upgrades for TAC, each bringing some upgrade while giving the squad some downgrade, swords will have faster attack speed while having true damage but much lower, fists high damage against vehicles while having slow speed etc. Just banishing ASM to hell wont bring balance, it will just take only useful thing from SM they can use in the sea of broken eldar.
@redScare said:
You cannot wall the only T1 melee line units of a race behind 35power cost. Your other ideas are fine, though. Current cost for vanilla ASM is ok, the issues are swords and leap, as many ppl have already stated.
Agreed, thus why I said this would only be possible if tactical marines get a buff (if your only real option is ASM early on, of course you're only going to see ASM) and melee options.
But you're right, the only real issues being the leap doctrine and the swords coming perhaps a bit too early.
If Eldar are so supposedly OP like you allege, why was the ESL cup finals SM vs Ork and SM won?
Didn't 2 eldar fight each other in finals last esl?
Bikerush and someone else I cannot remember the name of
Right now it seems Eldar get upper hand when scorpions come up, but loose it if they are not prepared for speeders enter the field.
Ah that is an older ESL as far as I know, for more recent go to twitch. Vindicare lost and definitely did not win
That ESL was before eldar even found out the bugged docotrine. That esl was quite hilarious too, the bracket vindi was on was full of good players, while the other was full of much less experienced ones, so the finals ended up being a utter stomp xD
@Bersercker said:
Eldar can counter early game ASM spam with striking scorpions which are even more OP. Just gotta not get tottaly wrecked till they can deploy. They can easily kill 2-3 squads of asm all by themselves.
Pracitcally everything in this Game is OP in its regard. So calling anything OP is not a way to go!
@Bersercker said:
Eldar can counter early game ASM spam with striking scorpions which are even more OP. Just gotta not get tottaly wrecked till they can deploy. They can easily kill 2-3 squads of asm all by themselves.
Pracitcally everything in this Game is OP in its regard. So calling anything OP is not a way to go!
@Bersercker said:
Eldar can counter early game ASM spam with striking scorpions which are even more OP. Just gotta not get tottaly wrecked till they can deploy. They can easily kill 2-3 squads of asm all by themselves.
Pracitcally everything in this Game is OP in its regard. So calling anything OP is not a way to go!
Orks stare at you
Weirdboy and Trukk Micro stares. Right. Back.
O______O
But honestly, I'm just waiting with popcorn popping for when Trukks have their day in the "wtf imba" sun.
@Bersercker said:
Eldar can counter early game ASM spam with striking scorpions which are even more OP. Just gotta not get tottaly wrecked till they can deploy. They can easily kill 2-3 squads of asm all by themselves.
Pracitcally everything in this Game is OP in its regard. So calling anything OP is not a way to go!
Orks stare at you
Weirdboy and Trukk Micro stares. Right. Back.
O______O
But honestly, I'm just waiting with popcorn popping for when Trukks have their day in the "wtf imba" sun.
Everyone keeps saying it but I don't see it. Zapnoggin' doesn't seem imbalanced at to me, he seems like a glass cannon, but idk, Orks are a rare enemy in this game. Trukks seem OP on paper but I've never experience any of their cheese.
For the record, I don't think Weirdboy is necessarily OP either. Maybe a bit too much AoE damage potential, but I'm not sold yet. As far as Trukks, I think it'll take time since it requires more micro precision, but Koof demonstrated how string it can be to chain stuns and such with launches. I'd say this will become more of a thing if ASMs/Eldar have a wave of nerfs in the balance patch and it remains untouched, but we'll see.
Encountered some Orks with good Trukk micro. There are two problems: they come too cheap and too early. I think Eldar won't have problem taking Trukks apart, but as standard SM build with ASM/Scout, it can catch you off guard early on. Main issue is that they are pretty fast and durable (with scrap shield) so I don't have pretty much anything to damage them or catch them (in case of ASM with PS). You have to anticipate Trukks and get Lascannons ASAP I guess, but that's pretty crippling investment and the only way I see to deal with them atm.
Regrading Zap, I though he's fragile at first too, but when you meet fully scrapped one, he's really tanky atop of great AoE.
Just saw a trukk abuse in action and omg it might be even more broken that the rest of the broken stuff in this game. Basically there is a doctrine for stormboyz that gives trukks an ability to shoot stormboyz which exlode on contact. Maybe some other doctrine adds to the effect but i wouldn't be surprised if the damage scales with stormboyz level, same as the winlord doctrine for webway gates. They also have a shield doctrine i think, or maybe its just a scrap shield.
Three trucks oneshot a falcon or a webway gate with this ability. Two trucks oneshot an infantry squad. I think you also need three shots for full health wraithguards. The projectile travels real fast too, almost impossible to dodge it unless you are already moving, and it also stuns targets which it didn't kill. A trukk costs 300 req and 25 power, has a decent amount of health, heavy armor, shield and a shoota which deals decent amount of damage in numbers. Do the math.
I imagine trukk spam might not counter an asm spam but it counters vehicles and anti vehicle teams(that are supossed to counter trucks) pretty well.
@Bersercker said:
Just saw a trukk abuse in action and omg it might be even more broken that the rest of the broken stuff in this game. Basically there is a doctrine for stormboyz that gives trukks an ability to shoot stormboyz which exlode on contact. Maybe some other doctrine adds to the effect but i wouldn't be surprised if the damage scales with stormboyz level, same as the winlord doctrine for webway gates. They also have a shield doctrine i think, or maybe its just a scrap shield.
Three trucks oneshot a falcon or a webway gate with this ability. Two trucks oneshot an infantry squad. I think you also need three shots for full health wraithguards. The projectile travels real fast too, almost impossible to dodge it unless you are already moving, and it also stuns targets which it didn't kill. A trukk costs 300 req and 25 power, has a decent amount of health, heavy armor, shield and a shoota which deals decent amount of damage in numbers. Do the math.
I imagine trukk spam might not counter an asm spam but it counters vehicles and anti vehicle teams(that are supossed to counter trucks) pretty well.
This ability has al gerger cooldown when i remember correctly and you NEED a Squad inside the truck to use it and i think this squad get damaged (loose a member)?
Maybe its borken, maybe its just a new strategy someone evolved and now everyone is use it until some other find a counter against it.
Lmfao. At least this situation requires a high level of micromanagement on the Ork player's part compared to the webway teleporting or the ASM cheese. I mean, those take micromanagement, too, but not as much as the ork trukk thing sounds like it takes.
Depends how you looking at it. Since Stormboyz are Elite, and they don't cost you resources when healing, and pretty much suck at combat, and only useful thing they have is suicide... To be serious, it's pretty powerful nuke in early game, Trukk Stormboy shooting kills a lot of stuff in pretty big radius, projectile really flies fast and on top of it stuns all units it hit. That's just bad.
Well, I guess Orks have the right to have some cheese as well As I say in many threads, I don't like instant squad wipes abilities at all. But at least of every race has some OP ++heresy redacted++, it balances out better, LOL.
Alot of things are "broken" , and mostly only in combination with a doktrin.
ASM with 1 Jump (Q) would be still strong, but with the ability to charge in (W) deal dmg with it.
And jump out with Q if needet, or use it as knockback . is just to much ! Cause he has this to early ingame.
Thats the problem of the Doktrin .
Eldar, they got 3 Doktrin's for her Early Unit (DA) this unit is just to strong and has to much utility, for a baseunit!
in Combination with the permaspeedbuff (they are basicly faster then everythink else ..
That allow Eldar just to dominate the Early game, SM can catch up, why they can do this?
Cause they get after 1 min a Unit with Double jump, 1 knockback 1 DMG
We have to wait 2-3 weeks, and we will see if relic can do there Job.
But the Balance ATM is really really boring.
DoW3 has a cool design in my Opinion with the different phases.
Constantly trades , micro fights.
Get a lead , use this lead to tech up a little bit faster .
With the Elite you can turn around a Game, so come backs should be possible and so on.
Thats all nice.
But in fact, you play early agression , and if you kill the first shieldgenerator or even the tower. you got more elitepoints then your opponent and you basicly win the game.
Thats exactly what we see now.
Meta is, all earlygame units get buffs over doktrins, you spamm this units and power generators are not so important!
You took a LvL 2 Elite, and push the shieldgenerator.
Even a lvl 2 Elite and a small army has such powerufll skills to destroy full squads.
So alot of games will be decidet after 4-5 mins!
We have this problem cause of 2 reason's.
Reactor's are not soo powerfull in eskalation p 1-2 , so most guy's invest there money into Unit's.
Increasing powerrate cost you ALOT of squads,
Also Elite's are very powerfull and can trade so well. i mean any dmg they deal is free eco dmg!
You are forced to play the first 10-15 mins only Yellow ressource Unit, and you will just choose the best one of this, + doktrins for them.
And thats exactly the problem atm!
Also you are not able to split up your army to defend 2 different locations.
Eldar and also SM can punish this hard even in the earlygame, cause of ASM mechanic and Infinity movementspeed.
So you Have to push also Unit's, and build less generators. cause if you split up your generator's, you have 2 problems.
1.) less army then your opponent.
2.) More locations to defend.
Its just not possible , if your opponent play "good"
Also you are not able to punish him for engaging into a small force.
Cause SM will just use W , flag fight , and jump out heal up!
And Eldar will also poke , with infinity movementspeed + shield's if there shield is down they go back, or they just port there warriorportal to the front!
You cant kill it , and for the eldar player its pretty save, cause 90 seconds later he can port it back. and he can healup while fighting + speedbuff portal is also here.
the dumbest matchup is Eldar against Eldar.
Its basicly a "basetrade" with the shieldgenerators, both are so fast, can relocate everythink .
They just run in a circle like rabbits try to destroy generators, and if scorpion is here, they just push the shieldgenerator.
And who get catched 1 time offguard in this stage of the game, has lost most of the time.
ehhh.. I've sort of figured out how to counter this as Eldar. it's just a matter of getting a quick Webway, which I wasn't doing. this allows you to kite the ASM around, and spread out the DA's until Banshees and Scorps arrive.
@Ekko_Tek said:
ASM are fine though - it's just the Ven Dread doctrine added jump ability and power swords in T1 for relatively cheap that need toning down.
This, ASM thenselves are fine, the Ven Dread doctrine from the get go is NOT, neither the powersword upgrade on tier 1.
Ven dred doctrine is useless. I grinded xp for it because it sounded good, but it really does nothing.
After playing more game, I convinced that Power Swords should be a squad upgrade, and not a general research, even if it’s moved to Tier 2. They’re as powerful as Plasma Gun for Tactical, and having to pay the price for each squad would mean first losing a squad of upgraded Assault would be costly, second you wouldn’t have all of your Assault with Power Swords, or you’ll have less of them. The price should be 75/75, and alongside that the energy cost of Assault Marines should increase by 10. Also the Assault Leap shouldn’t deal damage, as it can easily take 1/3 if not 1/2 of a squad health without real counterplay (same for the Banshee charge), having another mobility skill is already strong enough, particularly for Assault Marines which have already one if not the best mobility skill in the game, but I wouldn’t mind if they add a slow to the leap instead of damage.
im not sure you shhould go that extreme on asm with the power cost being 75/75 as well as it being an individual upgrade per squad, in T2. thhats probably 2 steps too far.
as it stands, thhe game is boring for everyone except orks i think, until it goes late game.
SM: its just ASM everywhere, all game, with some preds and landspeeders thrown in for good measure
Eldar: fleet of foot, teleporting everything, with wraithguard everywhere late game, whom have literally no downsides (maybe rate of fire, but theyre tanky as you like, and do a ton of damage)
Orks: early game truks and weirdboy are the name of thhe game.
people say dow2 had no options for build orders, well, this game has even less. go outside of those units and abilities and your going to have a very hard time.
eldar need several unit nerfs, and their tanks/walkers buffed to give them something besides wraithguard to build lategame
SM need lots of buffs for the likes of tacs, and maybe even dev mobility (and lascannons need to be looked at, theyre useless), along with ASM, and probably landspeeders being toned down.
orks need their truck eject to do damage or stun, probably not both. they also need something for the lategame that does damage and is tanky. as it stands, nobs are tanky but do no damage, and your missing any form of real tank outside of your elites. probably should be considered for any balance adjusments to the game.
and thats just a broad outline of changes that are needed.
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Comments
ShadowNet
I tried it with both doctrines and they don't fare much better. The "grenade" is a joke and they lose "fire on the move", when you upgrade them with plasma guns.
Larkis
Really, they loose fire on the move with plasma?
ApNw
ASM are mostly fine and pretty easy to counter with different types of units. I find microed skimmers to be extremely hard for them to deal with since you can keep them out of their melee range while doing huge damage to infantry in general and working around their jumps thanks to that mobility.
If a nerf should occur it should simply be on the upgrade for power sword. Either make it a one time upgrade per unit like the plasma/flamethrower but then reduce its cost or just move it to T2.
What they also could and should do, is buff the tactical marines, especially their DPS and maybe give them some melee option (they are SM after all) and change the cost of assault marines to be more power hungry, like 400/35 or even 400/50 but with even better ASM.
This would force you to think before deploying a multitude of ASM because it would slow down your tech, but allow you to get a significant advantage early on.
redScare
You cannot wall the only T1 melee line units of a race behind 35power cost. Your other ideas are fine, though. Current cost for vanilla ASM is ok, the issues are swords and leap, as many ppl have already stated.
tritol
ApNw
Agreed, thus why I said this would only be possible if tactical marines get a buff (if your only real option is ASM early on, of course you're only going to see ASM) and melee options.
But you're right, the only real issues being the leap doctrine and the swords coming perhaps a bit too early.
Grahell
Didn't 2 eldar fight each other in finals last esl?
Bikerush and someone else I cannot remember the name of
Right now it seems Eldar get upper hand when scorpions come up, but loose it if they are not prepared for speeders enter the field.
jambai
Eldar banshee/ranger spam is out of hand.
Grahell
Ah that is an older ESL as far as I know, for more recent go to twitch. Vindicare lost and definitely did not win
That ESL was before eldar even found out the bugged docotrine. That esl was quite hilarious too, the bracket vindi was on was full of good players, while the other was full of much less experienced ones, so the finals ended up being a utter stomp xD
Edit: added missing words, my post was a mess
leinad
Everything its out of hand but my setup.
Roibr
Pracitcally everything in this Game is OP in its regard. So calling anything OP is not a way to go!
Kharneth
Orks stare at you
PrimaGoosa
Weirdboy and Trukk Micro stares. Right. Back.
O______O
But honestly, I'm just waiting with popcorn popping for when Trukks have their day in the "wtf imba" sun.
Kharneth
Everyone keeps saying it but I don't see it. Zapnoggin' doesn't seem imbalanced at to me, he seems like a glass cannon, but idk, Orks are a rare enemy in this game. Trukks seem OP on paper but I've never experience any of their cheese.
PrimaGoosa
For the record, I don't think Weirdboy is necessarily OP either. Maybe a bit too much AoE damage potential, but I'm not sold yet. As far as Trukks, I think it'll take time since it requires more micro precision, but Koof demonstrated how string it can be to chain stuns and such with launches. I'd say this will become more of a thing if ASMs/Eldar have a wave of nerfs in the balance patch and it remains untouched, but we'll see.
Stoner
Encountered some Orks with good Trukk micro. There are two problems: they come too cheap and too early. I think Eldar won't have problem taking Trukks apart, but as standard SM build with ASM/Scout, it can catch you off guard early on. Main issue is that they are pretty fast and durable (with scrap shield) so I don't have pretty much anything to damage them or catch them (in case of ASM with PS). You have to anticipate Trukks and get Lascannons ASAP I guess, but that's pretty crippling investment and the only way I see to deal with them atm.
Regrading Zap, I though he's fragile at first too, but when you meet fully scrapped one, he's really tanky atop of great AoE.
Bersercker
Just saw a trukk abuse in action and omg it might be even more broken that the rest of the broken stuff in this game. Basically there is a doctrine for stormboyz that gives trukks an ability to shoot stormboyz which exlode on contact. Maybe some other doctrine adds to the effect but i wouldn't be surprised if the damage scales with stormboyz level, same as the winlord doctrine for webway gates. They also have a shield doctrine i think, or maybe its just a scrap shield.
Three trucks oneshot a falcon or a webway gate with this ability. Two trucks oneshot an infantry squad. I think you also need three shots for full health wraithguards. The projectile travels real fast too, almost impossible to dodge it unless you are already moving, and it also stuns targets which it didn't kill. A trukk costs 300 req and 25 power, has a decent amount of health, heavy armor, shield and a shoota which deals decent amount of damage in numbers. Do the math.
I imagine trukk spam might not counter an asm spam but it counters vehicles and anti vehicle teams(that are supossed to counter trucks) pretty well.
PrimaGoosa
@Kharneth Here it comes...
Larkis
This ability has al gerger cooldown when i remember correctly and you NEED a Squad inside the truck to use it and i think this squad get damaged (loose a member)?
Maybe its borken, maybe its just a new strategy someone evolved and now everyone is use it until some other find a counter against it.
Kharneth
Lmfao. At least this situation requires a high level of micromanagement on the Ork player's part compared to the webway teleporting or the ASM cheese. I mean, those take micromanagement, too, but not as much as the ork trukk thing sounds like it takes.
Stoner
Depends how you looking at it. Since Stormboyz are Elite, and they don't cost you resources when healing, and pretty much suck at combat, and only useful thing they have is suicide... To be serious, it's pretty powerful nuke in early game, Trukk Stormboy shooting kills a lot of stuff in pretty big radius, projectile really flies fast and on top of it stuns all units it hit. That's just bad.
redScare
Well, I guess Orks have the right to have some cheese as well
As I say in many threads, I don't like instant squad wipes abilities at all. But at least of every race has some OP ++heresy redacted++, it balances out better, LOL.
Auni
Alot of things are "broken" , and mostly only in combination with a doktrin.
ASM with 1 Jump (Q) would be still strong, but with the ability to charge in (W) deal dmg with it.
And jump out with Q if needet, or use it as knockback . is just to much ! Cause he has this to early ingame.
Thats the problem of the Doktrin .
Eldar, they got 3 Doktrin's for her Early Unit (DA) this unit is just to strong and has to much utility, for a baseunit!
in Combination with the permaspeedbuff (they are basicly faster then everythink else ..
That allow Eldar just to dominate the Early game, SM can catch up, why they can do this?
Cause they get after 1 min a Unit with Double jump, 1 knockback 1 DMG
We have to wait 2-3 weeks, and we will see if relic can do there Job.
But the Balance ATM is really really boring.
DoW3 has a cool design in my Opinion with the different phases.
Constantly trades , micro fights.
Get a lead , use this lead to tech up a little bit faster .
With the Elite you can turn around a Game, so come backs should be possible and so on.
Thats all nice.
But in fact, you play early agression , and if you kill the first shieldgenerator or even the tower. you got more elitepoints then your opponent and you basicly win the game.
Thats exactly what we see now.
Meta is, all earlygame units get buffs over doktrins, you spamm this units and power generators are not so important!
You took a LvL 2 Elite, and push the shieldgenerator.
Even a lvl 2 Elite and a small army has such powerufll skills to destroy full squads.
So alot of games will be decidet after 4-5 mins!
We have this problem cause of 2 reason's.
Reactor's are not soo powerfull in eskalation p 1-2 , so most guy's invest there money into Unit's.
Increasing powerrate cost you ALOT of squads,
Also Elite's are very powerfull and can trade so well. i mean any dmg they deal is free eco dmg!
You are forced to play the first 10-15 mins only Yellow ressource Unit, and you will just choose the best one of this, + doktrins for them.
And thats exactly the problem atm!
Also you are not able to split up your army to defend 2 different locations.
Eldar and also SM can punish this hard even in the earlygame, cause of ASM mechanic and Infinity movementspeed.
So you Have to push also Unit's, and build less generators. cause if you split up your generator's, you have 2 problems.
1.) less army then your opponent.
2.) More locations to defend.
Its just not possible , if your opponent play "good"
Also you are not able to punish him for engaging into a small force.
Cause SM will just use W , flag fight , and jump out heal up!
And Eldar will also poke , with infinity movementspeed + shield's if there shield is down they go back, or they just port there warriorportal to the front!
You cant kill it , and for the eldar player its pretty save, cause 90 seconds later he can port it back. and he can healup while fighting + speedbuff portal is also here.
the dumbest matchup is Eldar against Eldar.
Its basicly a "basetrade" with the shieldgenerators, both are so fast, can relocate everythink .
They just run in a circle like rabbits try to destroy generators, and if scorpion is here, they just push the shieldgenerator.
And who get catched 1 time offguard in this stage of the game, has lost most of the time.
Auni
Also about the "power" ability's.
Its little bit unfair.
SM , and orc ulitmate can be countered to 0 DMG .
Eldar ultimate , you can't counter it, its free dmg .
nerva2940
ehhh.. I've sort of figured out how to counter this as Eldar. it's just a matter of getting a quick Webway, which I wasn't doing. this allows you to kite the ASM around, and spread out the DA's until Banshees and Scorps arrive.
Proenca
okay you cant be serious right now haha
UnknownRobot
After playing more game, I convinced that Power Swords should be a squad upgrade, and not a general research, even if it’s moved to Tier 2. They’re as powerful as Plasma Gun for Tactical, and having to pay the price for each squad would mean first losing a squad of upgraded Assault would be costly, second you wouldn’t have all of your Assault with Power Swords, or you’ll have less of them. The price should be 75/75, and alongside that the energy cost of Assault Marines should increase by 10. Also the Assault Leap shouldn’t deal damage, as it can easily take 1/3 if not 1/2 of a squad health without real counterplay (same for the Banshee charge), having another mobility skill is already strong enough, particularly for Assault Marines which have already one if not the best mobility skill in the game, but I wouldn’t mind if they add a slow to the leap instead of damage.
Cursed
im not sure you shhould go that extreme on asm with the power cost being 75/75 as well as it being an individual upgrade per squad, in T2. thhats probably 2 steps too far.
as it stands, thhe game is boring for everyone except orks i think, until it goes late game.
SM: its just ASM everywhere, all game, with some preds and landspeeders thrown in for good measure
Eldar: fleet of foot, teleporting everything, with wraithguard everywhere late game, whom have literally no downsides (maybe rate of fire, but theyre tanky as you like, and do a ton of damage)
Orks: early game truks and weirdboy are the name of thhe game.
people say dow2 had no options for build orders, well, this game has even less. go outside of those units and abilities and your going to have a very hard time.
eldar need several unit nerfs, and their tanks/walkers buffed to give them something besides wraithguard to build lategame
SM need lots of buffs for the likes of tacs, and maybe even dev mobility (and lascannons need to be looked at, theyre useless), along with ASM, and probably landspeeders being toned down.
orks need their truck eject to do damage or stun, probably not both. they also need something for the lategame that does damage and is tanky. as it stands, nobs are tanky but do no damage, and your missing any form of real tank outside of your elites. probably should be considered for any balance adjusments to the game.
and thats just a broad outline of changes that are needed.
2meBrothers
A simple counter tbh would be to allow only 1 Jump. And I feel some extra damage and strength to the turrets and power cores would be a good buff.
Diogen84
And move scorpions to 5level of elite.