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How are you doing with the Webway glitch fix?
3 years ago
Ratata
Everyone was shouting out loud that webway enhancement doctrine was OP.
Now that the glitch was fixed, webway relocation CD is now up to 45 sec cd.
This would somewhat cripple the early stage Eldar harassing, how are people holding up?
It's a little uncomfortable compared what it used to be, I still think 45sec cd is still somewhat usable while you can move the webway around starting Tier 1.
and for opposing side, eldar is being less annoying on super early stage of game so I think this is somewhat understandable change for all users.
How are your opinions?
- fixed the title. nerf -> glitch fix
- significantly cripple -> somewhat cripple
Post edited by Ratata on
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Comments
DaDokisinX
Calling this fix "crippling" to previous eldar early game play is frankly a huge overstatement. 45 seconds is still quite a small cooldown for the webway.
A typical fight usually lasts around 20-40 seconds, which as you can see is about the time it takes for the webway to come off CD. This is especially true if Eldar are can tell when a fight will occur, and TP the webway preemptively.
Also, particularly in 1v1, once a fight ends, there is a significant portion of downtime when players have to replenish their losses and regroup. This window is more than large enough for the webway to come off CD in time for the next fight.
Overall, this bug fix has and will do little to alter the "meta" gameplay of eldar in the early game. I doubt we will see any shift in the power level of Eldar until a more significant change to this doctrine/strategy is implemented. The marginal cost of the 10-45 seconds seen by this change is essentially negligible, and really only makes the Eldar player think (a little) more critically about webway placement rather than just plopping it down wherever they fancy.
edit: God bless you @TripSin, doing God's work here every day
Ratata
Hmmmm guess we need a fix on "Battle Focus" itself?
aside the current balance I was keep thinking about concepts that might balance the webway up.
Shield regen is only possible NEAR the webway.
For SM and Orcs, if they take damage, they must head back to nearest reinforce-able point to muster its strength, but Eldar just have to stay in the range of the webway.
I think this is giving them too much mobility AND sustainability. By restraining the shield regen range only as big as the reinforce circle might do the trick.
Webway's shield regen should only occur when not in combat(just like Tireless)
While maintaining the current shield regen range, it could work like tireless docrine. shields regen only when it is not in combat.
Kharneth
@Ratata Battle Focus is fine, it definitely shouldn't be changed, but the webway fix was not a nerf, it was a bug fix. Now it is working as intended, I think.
Stoner
For all wondering folks: technically Relic haven't rolled out any balance patches yet, only bug fixes, so chill, this bug fix had small impact on Eldar dominance.
redScare
Yesterday,I killed a webway gate. First time in... forever, I think. I still lost the match but that moment was a huge vindication
Mafiale
The problem is not the Relocate cd imo ^^. Eldar needs to be nerfed on other aspects. And like mentioned before it was only a bugfix.
Kharneth
Yesterday I randomly found myself in a game with @TripSin (I think) who zerg rushed with the Eldar quite well.
kickinleg
So, the "glitch" with very low CD didn't only happen when both army and elite doctrine was equipped, right? Cuz no1 used both and the CD was still almost nonexistant to my knowledge.
Eldar still is very OP in the early game (striking scorpions true strike taking down shield gens way too fast, shield regen during battle and overall way too high, bonesingers teleport is ridiculous in the first minute of the game, hacing to kill all the shield before models are killed off is OP as well etc.) The really bad thing is: I don't think eldar is particularly strong in mid and lategame, but no1 can really gauge how good they are mid/lategame, since they get huge advantagaes from their ridiculous early game. So, better fix eldar early game soon, cuz after that, you'll gonna have to likely buff their midgame....
Kharneth
@kickinleg Yeah, supposedly it applied to the Wraithlord doctrine as well.
Striking Scorpions - I don't think they're OP. They don't drop the generator quickly by themselves, they need some support. They're also easy to kill, as far as elites go.
Bonesinger teleporting isn't OP and shouldn't be changed, that's just part of being Eldar and the teleport is as useful in late game as it is at the beginning.
Battle Focus preventing units from bleeding is pretty much the point, it might be too strong but I don't think so. I think possibly their damage output is too high, so they're ripping through units in the early part of the game before the enemy can damage the shields enough, idk. Maybe orcs need more DPS due to how quickly it drops.
Nyx
Well in Ork vs Eldar atm the matchup is heavily in favor of Eldar because of dire avengers. Dire avengers within webway are untouchable by any ork early unit. Boyz cannot reach them and shootas and lootas lose to warped workers. So 1 minute into the game Eldar have a massive combat advantage where given two equally skilled players - the Eldar will win every engagement. Pretty tough to play an rts where the enemy has a huge combat advantage 1 minute into the game...
Kharneth
I've started to adjust my strategy when faced with enemies I cannot defeat. Face strength with weakness and weakness with strength. Maybe the Orks shouldn't be openly fighting the Eldar in unfavorable situations. I know Orks are under powered and Eldar are powerful, I'm not going to try to hide that. But you don't have to fight the Eldar in their webway. Take the bases that are outside the aura of the webway. When the webway is moved, switch to a new side and fight over there for a minute. How do 3 DA squads outrun 3 ork boyz squads and also deal damage to them? Maybe the problem is the shoota boyz combined with the slugga boyz gives the DA less units to kite.
I don't know how to play orks, but I've been finding much more success using guerilla tactics and avoiding combat in the earlier games and just harassing and destroying generators.
Nyx
You're suggesting outmaneuvering the race that has one of it's biggest strengths as mobility and guerilla tactics? I mean yes it can be doable if you're better than your opponent... Assuming two equally skilled players the ork will not be able to. Also you suggest avoiding combat, which is fine but that means you as ork do not get to take any resource points..
Top Eldar routinely take ork's natural resource points as their first secured points.
Kharneth
1) Don't sell yourself short. Just because Eldar are more mobile doesn't mean that you can't outmaneuver them. Speed is not the only ingredient when you're planning to outmaneuver an enemy. Intelligence is far superior and can easily compensate lack of speed. Orks also have a wonderful feinting ability with their waagh banners.
2) No two players will ever have the same skill, so don't worry about that. Additionally, equal skill still is not equal. So many seemingly random factors impact battling and warfare that two equally skilled opponents could each have an advantage depending on the strategy they bring. It's not a matter of who is better, are they equal? then who has the better faction. A more skilled player can be outplayed by another whose strategy is better, and a lot of the times it's the luck of the draw because you can only respond to tactics, and then only after you've seen them.
What I suggest is this: Don't fight the Eldar head on. Use scouting to your advantage. Try to strike where they are weak and avoid where they are strong. I'm not saying to find one of their weakly held bases and take it over and mob it with your force. I'm talking about finding a weak objective and destroying it and then running back to your base and then to the other side of the map and doing it again. Force the Eldar to continuously run around the map chasing after you. There are too many nuances to explain and to go through to really get into here. The point is that if something continuously doesn't work you will need to start getting creative and think of odd and strange things to do. I've faced Eldar head on and I usually don't win those fights. You need to keep them on their toes and frustrate them. Don't do things that give them the advantage. If Eldar keep being you in open battles then stop having open battles. You say they'll take your objective? Well okay, sure, but they can't take all of your objectives at once unless you have no units of the field. Stop letting your ork boyz act like dogs chasing mailmen and start forcing the Eldar to chase you around. Force them out of their comfort zone. Harass them and lead them into ambushes of lootas/waagh banners.
So many people play this game like it's Total War. They'll build up a force and then fight their enemy's force. This is like the worst strategy you could take. The only time you want to fight an enemy army with your army is when you're defending and have the advantage. Otherwise keep giving the enemy player too much to focus on.