like you, i hate the meta right now, the fast paced gameplay forced by nukes in general that wipes everything. it devolves down into fastest fingers 1st, unit positioning dont quite matter because you are going to get wiped with nukes and combos.
Not sure if that's what he was talking about...
It's more about not having many viable builds against each faction. Certain Elites, units, and doctrines are just flat out better. Has nothing to do with the metagame of how much damage elites do in general.
like you, i hate the meta right now, the fast paced gameplay forced by nukes in general that wipes everything. it devolves down into fastest fingers 1st, unit positioning dont quite matter because you are going to get wiped with nukes and combos.
Not sure if that's what he was talking about...
It's more about not having many viable builds against each faction. Certain Elites, units, and doctrines are just flat out better. Has nothing to do with the metagame of how much damage elites do in general.
Well - he's not completely wrong. Some of the Elites (mostly early game elites, like Macha/Weirdboy), do kinda have this "gimmicky" effect of being too powerful (making it really easy to delete squads) - but I don't have a big problem with this really as it will be ironed out over time for sure.
Right now, as you said, some Elites and doctrines are just... well, broken. True damage striking scorpions being a big offender (deleting the normally durable shield generator in seconds), but the normally static webway gates being teleported at minute 1, ASM true damage, useless Tacticals, and some other things are really throwing the entire game out of whack. Instead of having multiple viable builds, we just see basically 1 for both SM and Eldar (while other builds aren't "bad", they aren't anywhere near as strong as the OP stuff). The overperforming items are dominating the meta - which was my main point (which you correctly summarized).
the game is a blast if you like MP. the dropoff is very simply explained by people leaving after finishing the campaign. these are the folks who mostly bought it for the SP, and are likely just waiting for additional content. I believe the MP population is holding, and it's as easy as ever to find a match.
imo, it's really silly to buy an RTS for its singleplayer. at least I would say no RTS is worth $70 if youre gonna buy it for the SP.
to answer your other question - it's very micro intensive, and being out of position or neglecting your troops is really punishing. but comeback mechanics are great, so it's always possible to turn it around.
I don't know about CSGO, PUBG, or DotA 2 as I don't play those games and I don't see any dev trackers on their forums.
Dota 2 has literally the BEST player to dev relationship.
Valve listens to the community and regularly browse the Dota 2 subreddit, so much to the point where if there is a suggestion/bug/change, the next following day a patch is implemented addressing it.
Question: without ASM true damage in T1, what does SM have to fight off Trukks pre-T2? Just the Deathwatch with a Rocket? Lascannon Devs are T2 last I saw, and otherwise nothing has true damage.
Maybe it's OK to just ignore the Trukk until T2 and try to fight off the Sluggas, but I'm curious with this emerging Trukk-heavy Ork play how that would pan out if you just straight up removed it from T1. I'd assume the SMs would just turtle up and tech to T2 as quickly as possible, but maybe Trukk damage is low enough that you can still just take fights without worrying about deleting the trukks anyway.
@Connatic said:
I think its more simple. If you have a negative view of the game, you will have a negative view of the developers and how they work.
As for the OP, its also simple. If you are a fan of RTS, you have at the very least, a 50% chance of liking this game. Watch some gameplay on Twitch and make your final judgement.
Also keep in mind many would have a more positive opinion of this game if it didn't use the Dawn of War IP. They'll tell you its a fine RTS, but not a good Dawn of War game.
So again, with user review's being split down the middle, just follow your gut. Holding off on a game just because it might not be the next big thing with an ever climbing player base is kinda silly.
I like RTS's and MOBA's actually. This game is kind of unpolished and in my opinion was released too early. the UI needs work and there are some severe balance issues as well as a lack of content and 1 controversial game mode.
@PrimaGoosa said:
Question: without ASM true damage in T1, what does SM have to fight off Trukks pre-T2? Just the Deathwatch with a Rocket? Lascannon Devs are T2 last I saw, and otherwise nothing has true damage.
Maybe it's OK to just ignore the Trukk until T2 and try to fight off the Sluggas, but I'm curious with this emerging Trukk-heavy Ork play how that would pan out if you just straight up removed it from T1. I'd assume the SMs would just turtle up and tech to T2 as quickly as possible, but maybe Trukk damage is low enough that you can still just take fights without worrying about deleting the trukks anyway.
Lascannons are t2 and they don't counter Trukks, in truth they are pretty useless against anything as far as I can tell. ASM with PS can kill Trukks only if you have them jammed in the corner or surrounded, otherwise they can dance around you all day. If devs don't push Trukks further down the tiers (Towers) for Orks or increase energy price by significant amount, SM wouldn't be able to win vs any semi-decent Ork.
@PrimaGoosa said:
Question: without ASM true damage in T1, what does SM have to fight off Trukks pre-T2? Just the Deathwatch with a Rocket? Lascannon Devs are T2 last I saw, and otherwise nothing has true damage.
Maybe it's OK to just ignore the Trukk until T2 and try to fight off the Sluggas, but I'm curious with this emerging Trukk-heavy Ork play how that would pan out if you just straight up removed it from T1. I'd assume the SMs would just turtle up and tech to T2 as quickly as possible, but maybe Trukk damage is low enough that you can still just take fights without worrying about deleting the trukks anyway.
Lascannons are t2 and they don't counter Trukks, in truth they are pretty useless against anything as far as I can tell. ASM with PS can kill Trukks only if you have them jammed in the corner or surrounded, otherwise they can dance around you all day. If devs don't push Trukks further down the tiers (Towers) for Orks or increase energy price by significant amount, SM wouldn't be able to win vs any semi-decent Ork.
Actually, the Focused Shot doctrine for Lascannon Devs is really, really strong. Seemed like good damage, combined with a stun, and allowed you to build up those damage charges. If you get a couple squads, you can chain some stuns and really lay the beat down on vehicles.
Actually, the Focused Shot doctrine for Lascannon Devs is really, really strong. Seemed like good damage, combined with a stun, and allowed you to build up those damage charges. If you get a couple squads, you can chain some stuns and really lay the beat down on vehicles.
The 90 sec cool down or whatever makes it way too punishing to use it on most things, usually it's good for chain silencing/snaring an elite.
Actually, the Focused Shot doctrine for Lascannon Devs is really, really strong. Seemed like good damage, combined with a stun, and allowed you to build up those damage charges. If you get a couple squads, you can chain some stuns and really lay the beat down on vehicles.
The 90 sec cool down or whatever makes it way too punishing to use it on most things, usually it's good for chain silencing/snaring an elite.
That's fair. I actually wasn't sure about the CD, but I specifically remember using it to abuse the hell out of some big walker elite, and I figured on a smaller scale it would also be good to lock down a vehicle long enough to bring it down. I could be wrong, I'd need to test how much damage the focused shot does against Trukks, but it's one of those doctrines that I think is easy to miss, so I wanted to bring it up.
Actually, the Focused Shot doctrine for Lascannon Devs is really, really strong. Seemed like good damage, combined with a stun, and allowed you to build up those damage charges. If you get a couple squads, you can chain some stuns and really lay the beat down on vehicles.
The 90 sec cool down or whatever makes it way too punishing to use it on most things, usually it's good for chain silencing/snaring an elite.
That's fair. I actually wasn't sure about the CD, but I specifically remember using it to abuse the hell out of some big walker elite, and I figured on a smaller scale it would also be good to lock down a vehicle long enough to bring it down. I could be wrong, I'd need to test how much damage the focused shot does against Trukks, but it's one of those doctrines that I think is easy to miss, so I wanted to bring it up.
I can't say Lascannons pack serious punch to armor, and as snaring I had a lot of success with Slow Death flamers. It's way cheaper, t1 and has shorter CD.
Personally I have stopped playing after about 50 hours because I am bored with the multiplayer, playing online DOW 3 games feels a bit like groundhog day to me and I have not grinded enough skulls to change race for variety. The early game is enjoyable as clashes are more meaningful and you have to manage resoources and other decisions carefully but as the game progresses it gets really boring as it becomes all about spamming units and skillshotting their whole army with your elites/vice versa. I'll jump on occasionally if I can get a team of 3 to go 3v3 as a time passer but have moved on to other stuff in my steam library. I suspect many people are feeling the same. Just my personal experience.
Near 4k played in the last 24 hours according to Steam Charts (currently ranked #104), but it is doing abysmal currently... There are more people playing CoH2 and Age of Empires 2 HD then DoW3 right now. The population dropped off fast. There are more people playing Farming Simulator 17.... I am quite disappointed. I hope the modding community can give us a version WITHOUT hero units and without all this turret MOBA stuff.
@Blitz said:
There are more people playing Farming Simulator 17.... I am quite disappointed.
Casuals like that sort of thing. Didn't Truck Simulator get some awards or something too? You can't really compared an RTS to...a Farming Simulator.
Unless you mean Dark Crusade campaign mode. Had to farm alot of HQs and Turrets in that at the end of every skirmish...I mean campaign...battle.
I hope the modding community can give us a version WITHOUT hero units and without all this turret MOBA stuff.
I take it you didn't like DoW2 either then? Because it had both these things, and they were more threatening than their DoW3 equivalents.
the numbers are fine, as I have no problems finding games in under 3 minutes. Same as on launch day. I'm just a bit bored of the meta, but I'm still playing quite a bit. Will definitely dive back in next week when the patch is out.
I'm not concerned about the game's state too much, or about its future. I think the community will steadily grow as more content is released and balanced.
Simply put don't buy it its not worth your money. Especially if you are coming from COH2 where you actually need to use strategy and husband your units. Remember that retreat option in COH well they basically took out that button in this game because your units die so fast. Everything is about the 3 hero units you slowly unlock during the match, everything else is basically window dressing that dies fast even space marines. Its so unbalanced in games that apparently every side has their one unit to spam out to use in mass and every unit has activatables that force the player to activate them and not have the units use them themselves.
The game is not a Dawn game, its not COH, its a bastardized moba/rts with not many maps. Stay with COH or try the older Dawn games if you are looking for an rts scratch. This wont fulfill it.
@Chriskovo said:
The game is not a Dawn game, its not COH, its a bastardized moba/rts with not many maps. Stay with COH or try the older Dawn games if you are looking for an rts scratch. This wont fulfill it.
Honestly, people are entitled to their opinion but I wish they'd get their facts straight first. DoW3 release has more maps than DoW2 did on release. _8 is more than 5_!
Or did you not pay any attention in kindergarten mathematics class?
Is it enough? Probably not, but you're not allowed to use that argument to say it's "not a Dawn of War Game!", seriously, unless you are willing to concede that DoW2 also isn't a Dawn of War game. In which case, you are basically just saying the game is not Dawn of War 1, rather than not a Dawn of War game.
And yeh, don't get me started on the MOBA thing. It's not a MOBA, except by the definition that every Online Shooter or MMORPG with a multiplayer mode is a MOBA too. Fact, end of story.
Some of the stupidity in these reoccuring threads is making me lose what little faith I have left in humanity and the average intelligence of the species as a whole.
Yeah, I never got the "it's not a DoW game!" thing either. DoW1 and DoW2 are so vastly different from each other, as is DoW3 in respects to every game individually.
I always wonder what these people consider a "true" DoW. There have been 3 entries in the franchise so far, every one of them different. I suppose most people who say this want Dow1-HD, forgetting about issues those games had.
To me, 3 elements make a DoW game:
1. The 40K setting. All games have this in common and do it very well, but each is slightly different. For instance, the voice acting from DoW->Dow2 became much more subdued and no so ott as before.
2. Squad based. Infantry units, for the most part, come in squads. Over the years, these have differed in size, cabability and numbers.
3. Heroes and Superunits. I don't get where people got the idea that the heroes in DoW3 suddendly made it MOBA, the series always had a big focus on these hero units. Same with the Superunits, these are part of the Elite selection and while some fan-favourites (Squiggoth and Avatar among them) are missing, the game-ending supers are still here.
Everything else has proven exchangeable so far. We went from loads of different (some of them silly) gamemodes, to VP (and people complainend about the lack of Annihilation on DoW2 too!), to Annihilation-lite.
We went back and forth on retreat, basebuilding (such as it is in the Dow series), global abilities and secondary ressources. Campaigns have gone back and forth too and I'm willing to bet that someday DoW3 will feature a Dark Crusade or Retribution-style campaign for every race.
I deleted my post or sth. FeelsBadMan.
Anyway, once more.
It's my first (or 2nd since i deleted first?) post here. Nice to meet you all. Hello. Yoroshiku onegaishimasu.
At first: it feels like DoW 3 version 0.7.01324.12314, not a 4.0
You will ask why?
First of all: terms of ballance.
Early balance.
This thing dont exist.
There are only 1 or 2 ways for each faction to win early.
ASM spam by SM. Wins solo on 1v1.
Dark Avanger spam on 2v2. Wins solo 2v2 if with preamade.
Spiders+Banshee+Quick Strike. Good for 3v3. If enemy isn't fast enough you can easily wipe his army.
Trucks + Stormboyz order.
More builds usually dont work untill you are pro. (dont know about pro scene)
Useless unitis.
There is some useless (or unworthy? unitis)
For SM it goes: Sniper Scouts, Marines without upgrades, Lasscanon squad.
For Eldar: Dark reapers (mby only a bit in early mid are usefull), Shadow something, Writhblades, Viper (comparing to land speed...), Fire Prims.
For orks: mby shootas? I dont play orks much.
Because of above it feels like there is only few unitis in this game (espacialy for eldar, which play almoust always banshee or ranger spam + wraithguard + 1-2 falcons maybe)
Useless doctrines.
Few doctrines are strong as hell, but 70% is... just useless in current meta.
The 2nd thing is matchmaking.
No ranking, no points. Pro can play against newbie. And with current meta, newbie almost cannot win, because few doctrines are so important (stormboyz, dreadnough or wraithlord doctrines are important or even necessary.
And last one: the above and lack of more content (new faction? new game mode? new maps?) makes game fast-boring.
It's not MOBA elements - Elites are stronge for sure, but they wont win game alone.
It's good game. I bought it for sth like 30£. Was it worth? It all depends on RELIC. If Relic will support it, balance, add new content (BUT NOT IN DLCs), it was worth.
It all depends on RELIC and SEGA, if this game will last another 5 years.
For now, after playing 40h in total, i will probably play it occasionally. But for now, i'm going back to DoW2 Retribution.
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Comments
Connatic
Not sure if that's what he was talking about...
It's more about not having many viable builds against each faction. Certain Elites, units, and doctrines are just flat out better. Has nothing to do with the metagame of how much damage elites do in general.
vindicarex
Well - he's not completely wrong. Some of the Elites (mostly early game elites, like Macha/Weirdboy), do kinda have this "gimmicky" effect of being too powerful (making it really easy to delete squads) - but I don't have a big problem with this really as it will be ironed out over time for sure.
Right now, as you said, some Elites and doctrines are just... well, broken. True damage striking scorpions being a big offender (deleting the normally durable shield generator in seconds), but the normally static webway gates being teleported at minute 1, ASM true damage, useless Tacticals, and some other things are really throwing the entire game out of whack. Instead of having multiple viable builds, we just see basically 1 for both SM and Eldar (while other builds aren't "bad", they aren't anywhere near as strong as the OP stuff). The overperforming items are dominating the meta - which was my main point (which you correctly summarized).
nerva2940
the game is a blast if you like MP. the dropoff is very simply explained by people leaving after finishing the campaign. these are the folks who mostly bought it for the SP, and are likely just waiting for additional content. I believe the MP population is holding, and it's as easy as ever to find a match.
imo, it's really silly to buy an RTS for its singleplayer. at least I would say no RTS is worth $70 if youre gonna buy it for the SP.
to answer your other question - it's very micro intensive, and being out of position or neglecting your troops is really punishing. but comeback mechanics are great, so it's always possible to turn it around.
Jules
Dota 2 has literally the BEST player to dev relationship.
Valve listens to the community and regularly browse the Dota 2 subreddit, so much to the point where if there is a suggestion/bug/change, the next following day a patch is implemented addressing it.
PrimaGoosa
Question: without ASM true damage in T1, what does SM have to fight off Trukks pre-T2? Just the Deathwatch with a Rocket? Lascannon Devs are T2 last I saw, and otherwise nothing has true damage.
Maybe it's OK to just ignore the Trukk until T2 and try to fight off the Sluggas, but I'm curious with this emerging Trukk-heavy Ork play how that would pan out if you just straight up removed it from T1. I'd assume the SMs would just turtle up and tech to T2 as quickly as possible, but maybe Trukk damage is low enough that you can still just take fights without worrying about deleting the trukks anyway.
Larkis
Maybe the would buff the laser devastators a little bit more so they are more usefull. When i remember currectly you can build them on tier 1.
grndmrshlgando
I like RTS's and MOBA's actually. This game is kind of unpolished and in my opinion was released too early. the UI needs work and there are some severe balance issues as well as a lack of content and 1 controversial game mode.
Stoner
Lascannons are t2 and they don't counter Trukks, in truth they are pretty useless against anything as far as I can tell. ASM with PS can kill Trukks only if you have them jammed in the corner or surrounded, otherwise they can dance around you all day. If devs don't push Trukks further down the tiers (Towers) for Orks or increase energy price by significant amount, SM wouldn't be able to win vs any semi-decent Ork.
PrimaGoosa
Actually, the Focused Shot doctrine for Lascannon Devs is really, really strong. Seemed like good damage, combined with a stun, and allowed you to build up those damage charges. If you get a couple squads, you can chain some stuns and really lay the beat down on vehicles.
steinernein
The 90 sec cool down or whatever makes it way too punishing to use it on most things, usually it's good for chain silencing/snaring an elite.
PrimaGoosa
That's fair. I actually wasn't sure about the CD, but I specifically remember using it to abuse the hell out of some big walker elite, and I figured on a smaller scale it would also be good to lock down a vehicle long enough to bring it down. I could be wrong, I'd need to test how much damage the focused shot does against Trukks, but it's one of those doctrines that I think is easy to miss, so I wanted to bring it up.
Abzu
I'm playing less cause of finals coming up.
Stoner
I can't say Lascannons pack serious punch to armor, and as snaring I had a lot of success with Slow Death flamers. It's way cheaper, t1 and has shorter CD.
A5tro
Personally I have stopped playing after about 50 hours because I am bored with the multiplayer, playing online DOW 3 games feels a bit like groundhog day to me and I have not grinded enough skulls to change race for variety. The early game is enjoyable as clashes are more meaningful and you have to manage resoources and other decisions carefully but as the game progresses it gets really boring as it becomes all about spamming units and skillshotting their whole army with your elites/vice versa. I'll jump on occasionally if I can get a team of 3 to go 3v3 as a time passer but have moved on to other stuff in my steam library. I suspect many people are feeling the same. Just my personal experience.
Blitz
Near 4k played in the last 24 hours according to Steam Charts (currently ranked #104), but it is doing abysmal currently... There are more people playing CoH2 and Age of Empires 2 HD then DoW3 right now. The population dropped off fast. There are more people playing Farming Simulator 17.... I am quite disappointed. I hope the modding community can give us a version WITHOUT hero units and without all this turret MOBA stuff.
KotCR
Casuals like that sort of thing. Didn't Truck Simulator get some awards or something too? You can't really compared an RTS to...a Farming Simulator.
Unless you mean Dark Crusade campaign mode. Had to farm alot of HQs and Turrets in that at the end of every skirmish...I mean campaign...battle.
I take it you didn't like DoW2 either then? Because it had both these things, and they were more threatening than their DoW3 equivalents.
nerva2940
the numbers are fine, as I have no problems finding games in under 3 minutes. Same as on launch day. I'm just a bit bored of the meta, but I'm still playing quite a bit. Will definitely dive back in next week when the patch is out.
I'm not concerned about the game's state too much, or about its future. I think the community will steadily grow as more content is released and balanced.
Chriskovo
Simply put don't buy it its not worth your money. Especially if you are coming from COH2 where you actually need to use strategy and husband your units. Remember that retreat option in COH well they basically took out that button in this game because your units die so fast. Everything is about the 3 hero units you slowly unlock during the match, everything else is basically window dressing that dies fast even space marines. Its so unbalanced in games that apparently every side has their one unit to spam out to use in mass and every unit has activatables that force the player to activate them and not have the units use them themselves.
The game is not a Dawn game, its not COH, its a bastardized moba/rts with not many maps. Stay with COH or try the older Dawn games if you are looking for an rts scratch. This wont fulfill it.
KotCR
Honestly, people are entitled to their opinion but I wish they'd get their facts straight first.
DoW3 release has more maps than DoW2 did on release. _8 is more than 5_!
Or did you not pay any attention in kindergarten mathematics class?
Is it enough? Probably not, but you're not allowed to use that argument to say it's "not a Dawn of War Game!", seriously, unless you are willing to concede that DoW2 also isn't a Dawn of War game. In which case, you are basically just saying the game is not Dawn of War 1, rather than not a Dawn of War game.
And yeh, don't get me started on the MOBA thing. It's not a MOBA, except by the definition that every Online Shooter or MMORPG with a multiplayer mode is a MOBA too. Fact, end of story.
Some of the stupidity in these reoccuring threads is making me lose what little faith I have left in humanity and the average intelligence of the species as a whole.
Krupp
Yeah, I never got the "it's not a DoW game!" thing either. DoW1 and DoW2 are so vastly different from each other, as is DoW3 in respects to every game individually.
I always wonder what these people consider a "true" DoW. There have been 3 entries in the franchise so far, every one of them different. I suppose most people who say this want Dow1-HD, forgetting about issues those games had.
To me, 3 elements make a DoW game:
1. The 40K setting. All games have this in common and do it very well, but each is slightly different. For instance, the voice acting from DoW->Dow2 became much more subdued and no so ott as before.
2. Squad based. Infantry units, for the most part, come in squads. Over the years, these have differed in size, cabability and numbers.
3. Heroes and Superunits. I don't get where people got the idea that the heroes in DoW3 suddendly made it MOBA, the series always had a big focus on these hero units. Same with the Superunits, these are part of the Elite selection and while some fan-favourites (Squiggoth and Avatar among them) are missing, the game-ending supers are still here.
Everything else has proven exchangeable so far. We went from loads of different (some of them silly) gamemodes, to VP (and people complainend about the lack of Annihilation on DoW2 too!), to Annihilation-lite.
We went back and forth on retreat, basebuilding (such as it is in the Dow series), global abilities and secondary ressources. Campaigns have gone back and forth too and I'm willing to bet that someday DoW3 will feature a Dark Crusade or Retribution-style campaign for every race.
Molek123
I deleted my post or sth. FeelsBadMan.
Anyway, once more.
It's my first (or 2nd since i deleted first?) post here. Nice to meet you all. Hello. Yoroshiku onegaishimasu.
At first: it feels like DoW 3 version 0.7.01324.12314, not a 4.0
You will ask why?
First of all: terms of ballance.
This thing dont exist.
There are only 1 or 2 ways for each faction to win early.
ASM spam by SM. Wins solo on 1v1.
Dark Avanger spam on 2v2. Wins solo 2v2 if with preamade.
Spiders+Banshee+Quick Strike. Good for 3v3. If enemy isn't fast enough you can easily wipe his army.
Trucks + Stormboyz order.
More builds usually dont work untill you are pro. (dont know about pro scene)
There is some useless (or unworthy? unitis)
For SM it goes: Sniper Scouts, Marines without upgrades, Lasscanon squad.
For Eldar: Dark reapers (mby only a bit in early mid are usefull), Shadow something, Writhblades, Viper (comparing to land speed...), Fire Prims.
For orks: mby shootas? I dont play orks much.
Because of above it feels like there is only few unitis in this game (espacialy for eldar, which play almoust always banshee or ranger spam + wraithguard + 1-2 falcons maybe)
Few doctrines are strong as hell, but 70% is... just useless in current meta.
The 2nd thing is matchmaking.
No ranking, no points. Pro can play against newbie. And with current meta, newbie almost cannot win, because few doctrines are so important (stormboyz, dreadnough or wraithlord doctrines are important or even necessary.
And last one: the above and lack of more content (new faction? new game mode? new maps?) makes game fast-boring.
It's not MOBA elements - Elites are stronge for sure, but they wont win game alone.
It's good game. I bought it for sth like 30£. Was it worth? It all depends on RELIC. If Relic will support it, balance, add new content (BUT NOT IN DLCs), it was worth.
It all depends on RELIC and SEGA, if this game will last another 5 years.
For now, after playing 40h in total, i will probably play it occasionally. But for now, i'm going back to DoW2 Retribution.
BTW I want to upload my own avatar, please.