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SM doctrines discussion
2 years ago
Fulgrim
I was wandering the forum looking for ideas for my SM doctrines, but didn't find any extensive discussion about them. What is bad, what is good and why.
What are your thoughts about SM doctrines? What doctrines and elite comboes are you using, and why?
So far i'm testing using upgrade scout grenades, landspeeder mark (deathwatch command) and tip of the spear doctrines.
Also Running assault leap from venerable dred - this is pretty much the only "must have" doctrine i found.
Any thoughs about better things to use?
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Comments
MajBumWhistler
Faction:
Standard
Assault Leap
Tip of the Spear
Elite:
Diomedes - Charging Slam
Terminators - Heavy Bolter, no setup. I think I cant remember this one.
Solaria - Whirlwinds
Fulgrim
I used for a while the terminators, but the no-setup for the bolters seem to not work half the time...
Diogen84
There only few of them are useful. Some of them are interesting but weak or weird( scout's first shoot as an example, sniper's ability to shoot with additional dmg but enemy can see that circle, or pin without damage, 15dmg grenades e t c, blind grenades, predators long shot).
Useful as for me: omnissia, fast drop pods, spear and secoond one for strongest cap, landspeeders shied, dreadnought slam, leap, predators shields.
Orcs have even less useful doctrines and two of them are similar) I don't want to mention eldar here, it makes me sick.
tritol
Without any specialization I use things like Gabes healing drop pods, upgrades to listening posts and upgrade for buildings so they can heal vehicles, reinforcing near listening post is OP.
Then you have specialized doctrines, when I know I am going to end it with vehicles, I take pred doctrines (shield and paladin), solarias whirlwind doctrine.
When I know I am going to just zerg around I am going with flamer doctrine, plasma doctrine, fire on move.
Depends on combination of elites, if I take too solaria, terminathors and something like DW or jonah I go with dread doctrines, asm etc and focus on defending forward positions and nuke everything from behind.
I think that only bad doctrines might be fire on move, as it greatly reduces damage, so if you dont get to situation where you chase something its nerf
maybe banner and deathstorm doctrines and I never liked the land speeder shield.
jambai
tritol.....
Forward buildings already doing what tip of the spear does...it's almost a waste of doctrine slot...almost, it does save couple of precious seconds, because one shouldn't put forward base right on the front but rather half between middle and start base.
Does anyone know how good "improved listening post" actually is? I'm using it atm but I'd like to see some numbers.
Krupp
Tip of the Spear also is/was(?) bugged with Scouts, making them more expensive to reinforce.
Tip of the Spear is pretty good in two cases:
1. You rush out production in your base/close to it so the forward reinforcing is welcome.
2. You fight next to your LP/close to it, cutting reinforce routes even more.
Stoner
It is still bugged and hopefully patch on 31 gonna fix it. Tip of The Spear is rather essential for SM even despite being so bugged. 1v1 games became almost impossible, because only viable combo atm are Scouts + ASM, and checking prices every time before reinforcing or losing 90/15 per scout model is kinda pain...
Shas_02
I have been going with double predator doctrines (shield and attack speed) for my team games and it seems to bring me success. I think the shield is better because it gives it allows it to take some real damage and still survive. Out side of this I have been running with the meta (assault jump, chapter doctrines, and Structure). Obvsoiuly i switch them around for I can not take them all, but I do not like devastators so I don really take those doctrines( Dislike how pin does no damage) and I do play around with tactical doctrines which seems underwhelm out side from slow death and plasma gun buff. Also for team games I do like Tireless, allows you to help teammates alot more.
Fulgrim
Thanks for the answers, nice to see what people like, tho it seem there's alot of mainstream doctrines.
I will look more closely into the predator doctrines, but i was wondering what do you guys think about the dred ones? Combo of a few slam doctrines is worth it?
Worth taking the assault termis just for the charge?
Diogen84
Definitely yes. They are cool, but their grenade doctrine with 15dmg is completely useless.
Shas_02
I wouldnt say competently useless, they are just weak compared to DA and shoota, the knock back damage with chain stun is very handy. imo.
jambai
I'd have assault terminators on a permanent basis because of their presence doctrine; it's among the strongest... but I don't because they themselves are underwhelming and aren't worth the 7p asking price. Not sure if I'd consider taking them even for 6p...
Guziol
I started to love the scout doctrine that gives them bonus damage on first shot out of stealth. Makes them really good at poking away at enemies.
Guziol
Oh i was also wondering about the sniper overwatch doctrine. I assumed that enemies dont see the area that you selected but i read that they in fact do see the targeting circle, which would make this ability not very good. So which is it? Is it really this bad?
CANNED_F3TUS
The reason why they didnt do that is because it would be a nightmare to balance.
redScare
If the enemy has a detector unit nearby, he definitely sees the targeting circle. But I'm not sure if the detector is mandatory to see it. Can someone confirm?
Guziol
I know its a bit of a necro but i tested it myself and yes. It requires spotter nearby to see it.
Stoner
Now idea why anyone would be using Sniper Overwatch, area is too small, and even if enemy walk right into it, damage isn't quite fatal.
Now few things I'm curious about:
Guziol
Overwatch is nice to bait melee units into your other ranged squads, damage is quite considerable at max charges as well but i still think it takes too long to charge to maximum and its a bit too clunky to use.
Pin is great if you use devastators. They deal no damage to pinned target by themselves sadly but they can pin anything. Targeted unit can leave the pin with a movement ability so time it right.
Diogen84
Pin is great for 3 dev blob with terminators. All infantry is melting.
Stoner
From my personal experience with using it so far - no damage is big letdown, and everyone I tried to pin so far managed to escape it by some move power or disrupting devs one way or another...
charlando
Does anyone like using sniper slow to provide covering fire with the slow?
You can put the snipers in heavy cover and spread out your devs outside the cover so they can't all be tied up at once. I shout about combining this with the dev extended range but then you have multiple suppression style units in one spot so it seems like a waste.
You can also use them with stealth cover but that requires more micro since there is not fire at will command and if the squad you target pull away then they move outside the stealth cover and lose the bonus.
Praxis
Predator Destructors with maxed doctrines are ++heresy redacted++ disgusting
Fulgrim
With the comeback of tacts i find tireless+upgraded flamer to be quite sweet. Add to this for later the venerable dred presence for tons of plasma.
In 3v3 and 2v2 i'm heavily relying on whirlwinds, so using the reloication doctrines. For 1v1 i use the upgraded listening post.
Stoner
ASM need at least 2-3 more doctrines...