How to revive this game

Gosu · May 2017

current balance issues are most likely caused by OP doctrines. They are so OP that you can't balance them. Remove OP doctrines such as ASM leap, Improved webway, DA shield, DA nade, Trukk bomba. Just removing these OP doctrines from the game will make better game.
Add decent maps. MOBAish 1v1 maps are problems. Two 1v1 maps are so small. Paths are narrow. They are the reason why people blame that dow3 is moba. Add decent classic RTS maps.
Add another annihilation mod. It seems that people don't really get into Power core mod. I would say it was nice try, but it didn't work.
Remove escalation phase. This is so awkward system. Obsession for bigger army made this system. just make 250/50 upgrade give more resource or find another way for bigger army.

People are lazy. They want something familiar with them. MOBAish map, power core mod, escalation phase are not what people want from RTS, especially DoW series.

Remove regional lock. We need more players. It is like 50 online users in asia server. They paid the game as same as others, they don't deserve that. The game is really dead for them.

Fww · May 2017

Agree with first one
Doctrines are total trash or way too good.
They should scrap them and add some of them as unit upgrades in game.

Chriskovo · May 2017

Sounds like the game is dead everywhere. A lot of usa players are complaining about long game finding times now.

Katitof · May 2017

Balance will be ongoing process for the games lifespan.
Well, we got more maps then DOW2 had at launch, we will get more with time.
Power core IS annihilation... just without early base rushes.
The system exists specifically because players wanted it. Micro intensive early game, macro intensive late game with huge armies and super units. Its not going anywhere.

AKaTTACK · May 2017

@Katitof said:
1. Balance will be ongoing process for the games lifespan.
2. Well, we got more maps then DOW2 had at launch, we will get more with time.
3. Power core IS annihilation... just without early base rushes.
4. The system exists specifically because players wanted it. Micro intensive early game, macro intensive late game with huge armies and super units. Its not going anywhere.

This 100%^^ if you go back and look at a lot of the feedback from DOW 1/2, this is what people wanted. A mash up of DOW 1/2 with a little sprinkle of COH, voila, now we have just that.

Larkis · May 2017

Why should reviving something what isnt dead or dying?

Draconix · May 2017

Personally I doubt that we'll see new content after seeing huge decline on steam, but still.....

Still, Iam gladly buy this game and even play it as long as I will have a fancy on it. I got used to its mechanics so doesn't bothers me too much, especially that I prefer to play against AI. Besides, right now they have to add balance patch with leaderboards first and then we'll start to think if they give us a roadmap.

DanteeChaos · May 2017

@Gosu said:
1. current balance issues are most likely caused by OP doctrines. They are so OP that you can't balance them. Remove OP doctrines such as ASM leap, Improved webway, DA shield, DA nade, Trukk bomba. Just removing these OP doctrines from the game will make better game.

Add decent maps. MOBAish 1v1 maps are problems. Two 1v1 maps are so small. Paths are narrow. They are the reason why people blame that dow3 is moba. Add decent classic RTS maps.

Add another annihilation mod. It seems that people don't really get into Power core mod. I would say it was nice try, but it didn't work.

Remove escalation phase. This is so awkward system. Obsession for bigger army made this system. just make 250/50 upgrade give more resource or find another way for bigger army.

People are lazy. They want something familiar with them. MOBAish map, power core mod, escalation phase are not what people want from RTS, especially DoW series.

Remove regional lock. We need more players. It is like 50 online users in asia server. They paid the game as same as others, they don't deserve that. The game is really dead for them.

I think they should be balanced instead of removed. Cutting content is not the right way to go. Besides, if these doctrines were to be removed other ones would take their place as the new OP doctrines.
I thought that we were past these MOBA comparisons but here we are again... Why are those maps considered MOBA-like? Because they have lanes? How do you expect to get to strategic points and your opponent's base then? This is one of the more popular 1v1 maps from DoW1 - can you spot the lanes?
The power core mode is not bad in my opinion but I agree that more game modes should be added eventually.
I have to agree that escalation phases are a weird game mechanic. I'm not sure what should be done about them.
What? DoW3 is region-locked?

Gosu · May 2017

@DanteeChaos said:
1. I think they should be balanced instead of removed. Cutting content is not the right way to go. Besides, if these doctrines were to be removed other ones would take their place as the new OP doctrines.
2. I thought that we were past these MOBA comparisons but here we are again... Why are those maps considered MOBA-like? Because they have lanes? How do you expect to get to strategic points and your opponent's base then? This is one of the more popular 1v1 maps from DoW1 - can you spot the lanes?

3. The power core mode is not bad in my opinion but I agree that more game modes should be added eventually.
4. I have to agree that escalation phases are a weird game mechanic. I'm not sure what should be done about them.
5. What? DoW3 is region-locked?

1.Tell me how to balance ASM leap. OP Doctrines are not content. some of them are passive.
2.they are MOBAish. terrible maps. so small, so narrow. It doesn't look like dow world.
3.power core mod is not something ppl want as well as escalation.

Katitof · May 2017

@Gosu said:

@DanteeChaos said:
1. I think they should be balanced instead of removed. Cutting content is not the right way to go. Besides, if these doctrines were to be removed other ones would take their place as the new OP doctrines.
2. I thought that we were past these MOBA comparisons but here we are again... Why are those maps considered MOBA-like? Because they have lanes? How do you expect to get to strategic points and your opponent's base then? This is one of the more popular 1v1 maps from DoW1 - can you spot the lanes?

3. The power core mode is not bad in my opinion but I agree that more game modes should be added eventually.
4. I have to agree that escalation phases are a weird game mechanic. I'm not sure what should be done about them.
5. What? DoW3 is region-locked?

1.Tell me how to balance ASM leap. OP Doctrines are not content. some of them are passive.
2.they are MOBAish. terrible maps. so small, so narrow. It doesn't look like dow world.
3.power core mod is not something ppl want as well as escalation.

Longer cooldown, cast time, tier restriction. Just three options without even starting on the damage itself.
You.... might want to install DoW1 and DoW2 again and refresh your memories....
You can't speak for everyone, only for yourself here.

DaDokisinX · May 2017

@Draconix said:
Personally I doubt that we'll see new content after seeing huge decline on steam, but still.....

This statement is totally facile if you took the time to think about it. DoW3 is relic's only new product on the market. Coh2 has mostly run its course, and their other games are hardly even relevant. Relic has every incentive to support this game and make it work from a business standpoint since it is the only way they as a company can make any sort of money. Relic is heavily invested in garnering as much return as possible out of this game.

This is a video analysis of Rainbow Six siege, another AAA game with a very shaky release. However, the game, with decent support over time, as shaped up to be a profitable and well made game. This statement just has no real foundation to stand on outside a childish intuition of how businesses work, so do some research/analyses before making them.

Draconix · May 2017

@DaDokisinX said:

@Draconix said:
Personally I doubt that we'll see new content after seeing huge decline on steam, but still.....

This statement is totally facile if you took the time to think about it. DoW3 is relic's only new product on the market. Coh2 has mostly run its course, and their other games are hardly even relevant. Relic has every incentive to support this game and make it work from a business standpoint since it is the only way they as a company can make any sort of money. Relic is heavily invested in garnering as much return as possible out of this game.

This is a video analysis of Rainbow Six siege, another AAA game with a very shaky release. However, the game, with decent support over time, as shaped up to be a profitable and well made game. This statement just has no real foundation to stand on outside a childish intuition of how businesses work, so do some research/analyses before making them.

Thx for showing me good example for game making comeback. Still doubt of Dow3's success of course, but if Coh2 and Rainbow Six Siege had really managed to survive its darkest moments, then I'm believe that Dow 3 also will have comeback enough to get a new content. However regardless if its flop or not, I will buy it and play. And don't have to play multi, campaign and skirmish against AI will be sufficient for me.

Anyways I'm agreeding with what you said.

Guziol · May 2017

I think if balanced will be worked on regularly, and escalation would be tweaked we will see a stady income of players. New content would help a lot too.
Also i think that superpowers are not very fun to deal with, at least in my opinion. Sure you pay 2 elite points for it but id rather seem them tied to tech or resources. Or both.

Draconix · May 2017

@DaDokisinX said:

@Draconix said:
Personally I doubt that we'll see new content after seeing huge decline on steam, but still.....

This statement is totally facile if you took the time to think about it. DoW3 is relic's only new product on the market. Coh2 has mostly run its course, and their other games are hardly even relevant. Relic has every incentive to support this game and make it work from a business standpoint since it is the only way they as a company can make any sort of money. Relic is heavily invested in garnering as much return as possible out of this game.

This is a video analysis of Rainbow Six siege, another AAA game with a very shaky release. However, the game, with decent support over time, as shaped up to be a profitable and well made game. This statement just has no real foundation to stand on outside a childish intuition of how businesses work, so do some research/analyses before making them.

Thank you for showing me a good example of game making a comeback. Still I'm doubt of Dow3's success, but still if Rainbow Six and Coh2 had managed to survive its darkest moments, then I'm believe that there will be a new content for Dow 3 too, especially after balance patch. Regardless of if it flop or not, I will buy this game and even play. And I don't have to play multi to enjoy any RTS, campaign and skirmish are sufficient for me.

Anyways thank you and I'm agreeding with what you said.

tritol · May 2017

Guys you have to wait and be brave

DoW will make it, balancing is going to take foreverer, if they add downloading custom maps in lobby it will work too and over time when more races and stuff will be added even more people will come ... warhammer community is small and very aggressive but after while they will realize they are not going to get anything better so they will get to it ... even now you can find DoW2 game under 2 minutes while finding match in super giants blizzards HotS takes more than 10 minutes and rankeds are dead completely ... just have faith

grndmrshlgando · May 2017

@Gosu said:

dow world? Now your just making stuff up. How about you reinstall DO1/2 and youll see the map layouts clearly have a top mid and bottom area you delusional fanboy

CourtJester · May 2017

The only way to revive this game is to get working hard on the expansion (which completely revamps the entire game), be prepared to give the expansion out for free to the people who bought DOW3, and hope to god the extra sales from the base game + expansion is enough to save the franchise in hopes of making more money later. The potential for making more money on further releases in the franchise is dead without doing something drastic to make things right with the people who originally bought DOW3. They completely trashed the brand and thats what they need to work on saving at the cost of turning a profit on the expansion.

iPhoneAppz · May 2017

The game has been out for what, 2 weeks? Why don't we wait a few months before we declare that the game is dead.

PhantomRevenger · May 2017

That would require people to stop using hyperbole, unfortunately.

I think DoWIII has severe issues (ASM and Avengers being one of the obvious ones, skulls system is tedious and pointless content padding ATM, games drag because the turrets prevent even players with a decisive map advantage from ending it if their opponent turtles), but I also think there's an interesting game there regardless and hopefully patches can deal with the major issues and give us a solid foundation for the likely Necron expansion.

CourtJester · May 2017

@PhantomRevenger said:
That would require people to stop using hyperbole, unfortunately.

I think DoWIII has severe issues (ASM and Avengers being one of the obvious ones, skulls system is tedious and pointless content padding ATM, games drag because the turrets prevent even players with a decisive map advantage from ending it if their opponent turtles), but I also think there's an interesting game there regardless and hopefully patches can deal with the major issues and give us a solid foundation for the likely Necron expansion.

http://steamcharts.com/cmp/285190,268500#1m

When I say its dead, I mean its dead. those numbers are abysmal and i'm comparing it to a game that doesn't even have a multiplayer. No hyperbole, not even minor exaggeration. Straight fact. Everyone needs to accept this especially the devs. I posted on feedback and support on why this is important and what needs to happen. Give it a read. Its the best battle plan moving forward for DoW.

CourtJester · May 2017

@iPhoneAppz said:
The game has been out for what, 2 weeks? Why don't we wait a few months before we declare that the game is dead.

See my response to PhantomRanger.

CANNED_F3TUS · May 2017

@Draconix said:
Personally I doubt that we'll see new content after seeing huge decline on steam, but still.....

Still, Iam gladly buy this game and even play it as long as I will have a fancy on it. I got used to its mechanics so doesn't bothers me too much, especially that I prefer to play against AI. Besides, right now they have to add balance patch with leaderboards first and then we'll start to think if they give us a roadmap.

You dont know Sega than lol.

Dragon1291 · May 2017

The one change which would be good is if they can make super weapons optional(Eldrich Storm,Orbital Beam,Roks) , Don't think they are necessary in each and every game.

And also an option to turn elites on or off should be there for no elite game-play but keeping the elite doctrines selectable.

Gorb · May 2017

@CourtJester said:

@PhantomRevenger said:
That would require people to stop using hyperbole, unfortunately.

I think DoWIII has severe issues (ASM and Avengers being one of the obvious ones, skulls system is tedious and pointless content padding ATM, games drag because the turrets prevent even players with a decisive map advantage from ending it if their opponent turtles), but I also think there's an interesting game there regardless and hopefully patches can deal with the major issues and give us a solid foundation for the likely Necron expansion.

http://steamcharts.com/cmp/285190,268500#1m

When I say its dead, I mean its dead. those numbers are abysmal and i'm comparing it to a game that doesn't even have a multiplayer. No hyperbole, not even minor exaggeration. Straight fact. Everyone needs to accept this especially the devs. I posted on feedback and support on why this is important and what needs to happen. Give it a read. Its the best battle plan moving forward for DoW.

I think it would be fairer to show XCOM 2's numbers from release, to compare the drop-offs:

http://steamcharts.com/cmp/285190,268500#All

wongtp · May 2017

work on nuke spells and aoe. burst abilities and damage MUST be toned down. given the way how model losses are based on a percentage of a squad hp, limit the maximum damage an ability can have, regardless of model count. a boyz squad suffers much more compared to a dire avenger squad/asm squad by virtue of having more models being hit by aoe.

damage should come from meaningful sources, ie basic attacks. keeping the enemy from shooting back and attacking effectively should be the name of the game. using abilities/focus fire and using abilities should be the mainstay of combat. but being hit by an ability should be more forgiving. reduce damage of all nuke abilities and give them crowd control properties.

squad wipes should be a combination of well placed ability to lock/slow units in place for units to open fire on them or chop them up. this way nukes are still useful but do not wipe squads instantly. pulling back damaged squads is still viable.

this will bring more meaningful micro into the game, rather than constantly sniping squads and rebuilding lost squads.

Draconix · May 2017

@CourtJester said:

@PhantomRevenger said:
That would require people to stop using hyperbole, unfortunately.

I think DoWIII has severe issues (ASM and Avengers being one of the obvious ones, skulls system is tedious and pointless content padding ATM, games drag because the turrets prevent even players with a decisive map advantage from ending it if their opponent turtles), but I also think there's an interesting game there regardless and hopefully patches can deal with the major issues and give us a solid foundation for the likely Necron expansion.

http://steamcharts.com/cmp/285190,268500#1m

When I say its dead, I mean its dead. those numbers are abysmal and i'm comparing it to a game that doesn't even have a multiplayer. No hyperbole, not even minor exaggeration. Straight fact. Everyone needs to accept this especially the devs. I posted on feedback and support on why this is important and what needs to happen. Give it a read. Its the best battle plan moving forward for DoW.

I understand that game is dead at the moment. Its sad to me, because there will be probably no new content. But still Iam intent to buy and play this game, because I personally like this game. And don't need to play multi, there is also campaign and skirmish. However.....

.....If Coh 2 had really rocky start at beginning, before making a comeback, then perhaps Dow3 will too, who knows. Life is harsh, but it is also full of suprises. And it isn't about stats only. Sometimes there is a miracle.

I personally doubted Dow3 success, but I actually appreciate Relic for trying something else and that's why Iam going to buy this game and enjoyed it. Even if there will be low player count, I will play that game in skirmish as long as I want.

You can show many stats you want, but...... I can appreciate what we have currently in terms of game's content. In the end I think Relic is doing his best he can to make this game better.

CourtJester · May 2017

@Draconix said:

@CourtJester said:

@PhantomRevenger said:
That would require people to stop using hyperbole, unfortunately.

I think DoWIII has severe issues (ASM and Avengers being one of the obvious ones, skulls system is tedious and pointless content padding ATM, games drag because the turrets prevent even players with a decisive map advantage from ending it if their opponent turtles), but I also think there's an interesting game there regardless and hopefully patches can deal with the major issues and give us a solid foundation for the likely Necron expansion.

http://steamcharts.com/cmp/285190,268500#1m

When I say its dead, I mean its dead. those numbers are abysmal and i'm comparing it to a game that doesn't even have a multiplayer. No hyperbole, not even minor exaggeration. Straight fact. Everyone needs to accept this especially the devs. I posted on feedback and support on why this is important and what needs to happen. Give it a read. Its the best battle plan moving forward for DoW.

I understand that game is dead at the moment. Its sad to me, because there will be probably no new content. But still Iam intent to buy and play this game, because I personally like this game. And don't need to play multi, there is also campaign and skirmish. However.....

.....If Coh 2 had really rocky start at beginning, before making a comeback, then perhaps Dow3 will too, who knows. Life is harsh, but it is also full of suprises. And it isn't about stats only. Sometimes there is a miracle.

I personally doubted Dow3 success, but I actually appreciate Relic for trying something else and that's why Iam going to buy this game and enjoyed it. Even if there will be low player count, I will play that game in skirmish as long as I want.

You can show many stats you want, but...... I can appreciate what we have currently in terms of game's content. In the end I think Relic is doing his best he can to make this game better.

I admire your optimism. For everyone's sake, I hope you're right.

Draconix · May 2017

@CourtJester said:

@Draconix said:

@CourtJester said:

@PhantomRevenger said:
That would require people to stop using hyperbole, unfortunately.

I think DoWIII has severe issues (ASM and Avengers being one of the obvious ones, skulls system is tedious and pointless content padding ATM, games drag because the turrets prevent even players with a decisive map advantage from ending it if their opponent turtles), but I also think there's an interesting game there regardless and hopefully patches can deal with the major issues and give us a solid foundation for the likely Necron expansion.

http://steamcharts.com/cmp/285190,268500#1m

When I say its dead, I mean its dead. those numbers are abysmal and i'm comparing it to a game that doesn't even have a multiplayer. No hyperbole, not even minor exaggeration. Straight fact. Everyone needs to accept this especially the devs. I posted on feedback and support on why this is important and what needs to happen. Give it a read. Its the best battle plan moving forward for DoW.

I understand that game is dead at the moment. Its sad to me, because there will be probably no new content. But still Iam intent to buy and play this game, because I personally like this game. And don't need to play multi, there is also campaign and skirmish. However.....

.....If Coh 2 had really rocky start at beginning, before making a comeback, then perhaps Dow3 will too, who knows. Life is harsh, but it is also full of suprises. And it isn't about stats only. Sometimes there is a miracle.

I personally doubted Dow3 success, but I actually appreciate Relic for trying something else and that's why Iam going to buy this game and enjoyed it. Even if there will be low player count, I will play that game in skirmish as long as I want.

You can show many stats you want, but...... I can appreciate what we have currently in terms of game's content. In the end I think Relic is doing his best he can to make this game better.

I admire your optimism. For everyone's sake, I hope you're right.

Well, we should leave it to the Time itself. Only time will tell.

CourtJester · May 2017

@Gorb said:

@CourtJester said:

@PhantomRevenger said:
That would require people to stop using hyperbole, unfortunately.

I think DoWIII has severe issues (ASM and Avengers being one of the obvious ones, skulls system is tedious and pointless content padding ATM, games drag because the turrets prevent even players with a decisive map advantage from ending it if their opponent turtles), but I also think there's an interesting game there regardless and hopefully patches can deal with the major issues and give us a solid foundation for the likely Necron expansion.

http://steamcharts.com/cmp/285190,268500#1m

When I say its dead, I mean its dead. those numbers are abysmal and i'm comparing it to a game that doesn't even have a multiplayer. No hyperbole, not even minor exaggeration. Straight fact. Everyone needs to accept this especially the devs. I posted on feedback and support on why this is important and what needs to happen. Give it a read. Its the best battle plan moving forward for DoW.

I think it would be fairer to show XCOM 2's numbers from release, to compare the drop-offs:

http://steamcharts.com/cmp/285190,268500#All

All comparisons I made were from XCOM2's release. I also showed the same thing for Civ6, total war: warhammer, some other game I can't recall, and, the most upsetting, No Man's Sky in one of my other posts on the forums. All were done from release to 30 days out which, by the way, favors DoW3 in the comparison because I don't even have a full 30 days yet to see how much more it would decline.

Gorb · May 2017

Sorry, the link I clicked only showed the statistics from the last month. While DoW III has gone from ~25k to ~2k (at peak), XCOM 2 has gone from ~132k to 2.5k (over its lifespan), with a single-month drop of ~132k to ~24k (with a further drop to ~10k, so under 10% of the original total, within the second month).

In a game that does have multiplayer (head to head), and given the lack of available statistics we can't really guess at that breakdown. Your insistence that DoW III is primarily an MP game is unsupported by any available statistics, too. Player drop-off will relate to various factors, including dissatisfaction with the product as a whole, the MP scene, and finishing of the SP Campaign for the demographic that enjoys such. Opinion post.

How to revive this game

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