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Give option to have no doctrines.
3 years ago
MrBenis
So the core complaints I keep seeing center around doctrines. I think that if something is complained about so much there should be an option to disable this when making custom games or search for quick matches.
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Comments
Larkis
No, doctrines are the center of overall strategy. They jjst need balancing.
GMJohnny
Yeah they really do need balancing, but there should be other options of game modes in a $60 game.
Korica
They just need to be balanced.
Larkis
Thats your opinion. I have more fun and put more time in the game then in all rts, i played the last years, together.
For me the 60€ was more then worthy for this game.
vindicarex
Most doctrines are fine (as in, they are decent, but not OMG WTF OP good) - just some big offenders that need to be fixed. Once they are all toned down to function simply to augment your army in a niche but important manner (i.e. Slow Death flamer doctrine), they will feel a lot better. This is opposed to the very OP doctrines such as Trukk Kamakazee nukes (ubiquitously effective at everything) that adversely affect meta/balance.
Fundamentally, I think doctrines work well to promote unique gameplay styles as well as give the game some added flavor of customizing your army a bit.
Katitof
Well, they aren't your nightmare, but Relics and given how they did fairly good job with CoH2 doctrines(especially post WFA ones), they will get there.
No one can foresee how players will use them and thing with spam in RTS is always very simple - you identify it and build a counter to it.
Stacking doctrines for single unit should make that unit powerful, but spreading them over different units should give good results for combined arms approach as well.
Only a couple of doctrines are no-brainers and these can be nerfed to the level of others so they become an option, not the option.
And balancing doctrines is still much simpler then balancing plethora of RNG and anti all units of CoH2.
Katitof
Rifle flamers?
Rifle dual LMGs?
Con PPSH?
G43s?
Ober IR STGs?
For the motherland?
OKW +50% accuracy one?
That's pretty powerful stuff and only from the top of my head.
DoW2 commander abilities were just that, commander abilities tailored to specific playstyle, they allowed no passives or additional unit abilities like CoH2/DoW3 ones, though I'll assume you meant DoW3 ones, in which case, as I've said, it depends highly on the doctrine itself, some are nice, some are ok at best, strongest doctrine turned out to be bugged and got fixed and is not potent but balanced.
Stoner
^ THIS.
CANNED_F3TUS
The reason,why people are complaining about doctrines is because they are unbalanced... If they were balanced people would love them. I disagree with giving the options cause when balanced doctrines could make for interesting variety in games.
MrBenis
So let me get this straight, you DONT want players to have the option to use a feature they don't like.. because your opinion is they would love them IF they were balanced.
Ok.
In the mean time, the option to not use them should be present. When they are rebalanced, then we might care enough to turn them back on. It should be a player choice to have a game with them or not.
CANNED_F3TUS
Just muh oppinion lulz.
GMJohnny
If we are gonna put opinion in this, there's a reason why a multiplayer focused game has lost 90% of its player base in its first 2 weeks, has horrible reviews on every user based sight and has become stagnant in sales.
The majority opinion > the very few who like this game still
CANNED_F3TUS
90% of those reviews are from pissed off nostalgia geezerds and trolls. So effectivly DoW old community wants the franchise to go down. So it matters not what those 90%ers say for the most part. (Those that made valid complaints i totally understand the trolls i do not)
Stoner
Lol, so you're saying vDOW fans want the only decent W40k title to go down? You serious? I for one think that if Relic won't be able to get this game on its feet, modding community may turn it into a real masterpiece in time, I only hope official support with new content doesn't stop any time soon. And with all these mistakes Relic maybe learn a lesson and we get truly epic DOW IV down the road. Believe me, NO ONE wan't for Relic or DOW series to go down, and if you read most reviews carefully, you'll see that "it isn't DOW I/II" complaints aren't so widespread.
CANNED_F3TUS
I actually do believe that the old DoW fans want this game to go down just by all the unneccassary ++heresy redacted++ thats flying around. Every where i go i see dumb ++heresy redacted++ comments on youtube facebook etc etc "eeehr ma geehrd its not an exact copy of DoW 1! that means the game sucks! Or i see eeeehr ma geeehrd its not an exact copy of DoW 2 and i never played 3 SO IT MUST SUCK! Or every other youtube replay video you see the same arse hats skulking around saying the same ++heresy redacted++ over and over. And here we get a bunch of negative nancies with their panties in a bunch doomin and gloomin causing rage threads and going nowhere.
The old DoW crowd has indirectly been trying to screw over this game from the get go. You cant deny that. Same ++heresy redacted++ happened in DoW 2 same thing in DoW 3. Just now DoW 2 people are hating on tge game as well acting like there was never anything wrong in that game,
Honestly i doubt we will get DoW 4 if this game doesnt get active support by the players and the devs. The devs from relic really tried to make everyone happy with this game but nowadays its cool to hate and be ignorant as hell. This game has potential that the other DoWs didnt have even from the start. But vanilla fans ignore this completely because they dont think like you or me. We think future. Trolls think in the NoW. LoL
MrBenis
DoW3 is much closer to DOW1 than DOW2. DOW1 is also more popular than DOW2 despite being 5 years older. It makes sense from a business perspective to cater to the larger audience. Unfortunately there's an obvious lack of depth and polish for 3 that can't be ignored and after a decade of anticipation and hype DOW3 got hit with HL3 syndrome and disappointed everyone in the end product. Realistically what should have happened is Relic took a loan to buy DOW from the THQ collapse and then sought kickstarter to fund development. We'd probably be looking at a better game. Instead now DOW gets to rot in SEGA's bowels for a while, SEGA is content to print money with GW IP for the time being but anything coming from the hands of the guys who brought you the hot garbage known as Rome2 should be viewed with suspicion.
GMJohnny
It is not being ignorant... When people buy a franchise titled game, they expect it. The people who buy it expect a game to there last experience but improved! If they named this game anything else it might have done better. Having a title of a game as III then changing the game format only discourages new players from joining and pisses off the entire people following the game. Look at any game who tried to experiment with a same franchise name, almost every single one failed. The ones who stayed the course have done extremely well.
Want examples of games who keep there franchise and player base together?
Witcher, mass effect, assassins creed. EVEN IF YOU HATE THOSE GAMES AND THINK ITS STUPID WITH NO CHANGE, they did well. Reason being they kept the same fanbase and people joined in because no one was massively confused of all the hate.
Stoner
To be perfectly honest, game doesn't feel to have any resemblance to either DOW I or II. It feels like completely alien mashup of ideas from RTS like StarCraft, some MOBAs and whatnot, but utterly lacks spirit of any previous DOW. Only thing that makes it related to DOW title is the name and unit models.
I don't mean it in a bad way, I just state how it feels for me personally.
CourtJester
I'd opt for no globals (orbital bombardment et al.)
CourtJester
Well I agree and i DO mean it in a bad way lol
CourtJester
I guarantee you that if the core gameplay were enjoyable but nothing like the previous games, you would not be seeing the reactions that you are complaining about.
The devs from relic did not try to make everyone happy. In fact, from what I can tell the fan base has been against the mechanics they've revealed since they began announcing them. That isn't the fan base trying to sabotage a game. Thats the people who want the game to succeed telling the devs what will and will not work. People make suggestions based on DoW1 and 2 because thats what they know, not because thats what they necessarily want.
You don't think future. The people who are in the "doom and gloom" basket are thinking future. We are thinking that a AAA game that only saw 70k units sold in its first week and has only garnered a little more than 200k total units sold to date will likely not see worthwhile content releases and support beyond whatever small DLC relic tries to push on the fans to try to break even on its development of this turd. And that is the basket we are ALL in.
As I see it, the DoW franchise has one great hope and that is that Relic sells the rights to the Warhammer IP to another developer with a strong enough reputation to get people to buy back into the franchise.
Stoner
NO. That would be worse thing ever, and if that happens, we can safely bury DOW title right there. I don't know any other dev team other than Relic, who has potential knowledge to make anything even remotely decent (especially RTS) based on W40k universe. Check horrific record of GW selling their license, and count how many games are not utter trash. Very-very few. Sega is greedy publisher, but CA created possibly one of the best Warhammer Fantasy games to date under them, so Sega/Relic gives some hints of hope too.
Even DOW III with all its terrific downsides has solid core around which decent game can in theory be built. Gotta give them credit at least for that.
CourtJester
Actually my biggest gripes with the game revolve around its core mechanics lol. But if thats not your biggest issue, I can see why you wouldn't want the IP changing hands.
Stoner
If there would be some expansions on modding capabilities (like being able to tweak units individually), this game can easily be put on DOW I rails only with Elites as new mechanic. Core is pretty flexible from what I can tell.
CANNED_F3TUS
>
Thats odd because last time i checked the only mechanics they didnt add were the cover mechanics. The rest of the stuff is in the game just it was put in differently. But most People chose to ignore that.
I doubt we will see another DoW game the way fans been acting. Whats the point in developing a sequel to a game when people are to blind and ignorant to see the similarities and the improvments the game has made in fields where the other 2 DoWs fell flat on their face on. The people,in the doom and gloom basket are in the past bud. Or else,you wouldnt hear where is my DoW 1 reskin and the wonderful cluster fuk k late game provided and the good unit pathing. Waaah waaah waah. LoL.
MrBenis
Oh absolutely, I actually hate them. I would never have included them personally, or at least make them scale so each time they're used they take longer to use next time. The time should at least increase by 50% every time they're used.