I make videos, so I made a video about my initial impressions on the patch while taking too long to get to my points.
TLDR: Haven't played it yet, so don't expect any hyperbolic, "OMG X IS COMPLETELY USELESS NOW" crap people like to do way too early on. It's basically all the things people expected. I like most of the stuff. Maybe Eldar got hit a bit too hard..? ++heresy redacted++ you, Trukks! I like the idea that relic is considering (at least as far as I can tell) balance at both high end, low end, and future balance considerations within the context of this patch specifically. True damage is scary.
I'm trying to avoid using Killteam, and their rocket does significantly more damage than Librerian, but it still might not be enough. What I'm concerned about is Trukk spam. Since req gain is increased, Ork can get lots of more Trukks than usual, and while only source of damage being Elite, any Ork will just tie them into melee. I guess SM has to rush T2 ASAP now or die... Hope I'm wrong here.
And I believe I can express my subjective impressions freely, eh?
If you want to avoid using Kill Team, that's fine, but saying "SM has to rush T2 ASAP or die" seems like an extreme conclusion to draw if you are eliminating one of the potential counters from your consideration. I do agree it could be an issue if melee squads try to tie up KT/Jonah in melee, but that's what Flamers are for right?
Also, you can express your subjective impressions, but if they are outlandish enough to claim the patch didn't tackle any real issues after it specifically addresses many of the community-proposed issues, then I can express my surprise and call you out. The patch might introduce new issues (RTSes don't get balanced after one patch), but to say none of the issues were addressed? ASM spam with power swords in T1 wasn't addressed? Striking Scorps burning down shield gens wasn't addressed? Suicide Bomba damage on objectives wasn't addressed? TSM feeling weak wasn't addressed?
So much was addressed.
Ok, "non" was bad exaggeration on my part.
Played some more, haven't any matches vs. Ork or Eldar yet sadly, so can't really comment on it. But what I can say from my very limited experience with new patch is that game objectives are somewhat more fleshed out now. Every match have been played till Core is destroyed, turrets are possible to tear down and do not wipe half of your army in 1v1. Not a single surrender on my part or opponents. I guess it was because I met rather equal opponents, and had a feeling that I can fight back throughout the game.
Now I have clearer idea what completely kills me aside from low unit survivability and brutal AoE skills - is that game drags on for too long for my taste. After every match I feel completely exhausted... Guess can't do anything about it for now, hopefully they add other gamemodes and pacing will be more akin to my stamina lol.
Could someone explain to me what the 'meele-damage' and 'ranged-damage' changes for the TMs mean? Because it's obviously not the damage of a single unit but also not the damage of the whole squad?
@Whoopshwoop said:
Could someone explain to me what the 'meele-damage' and 'ranged-damage' changes for the TMs mean? Because it's obviously not the damage of a single unit but also not the damage of the whole squad?
@Whoopshwoop said:
Could someone explain to me what the 'meele-damage' and 'ranged-damage' changes for the TMs mean? Because it's obviously not the damage of a single unit but also not the damage of the whole squad?
Possibly the damage per shot/wack? Not taking the reload rate and RoF into account.
According to in-game, a full Tac Squad has 40DPS now at range (same as Dire Avengers) and 22DPS in melee (significantly more than Dire Avengers now).
@Whoopshwoop said:
Could someone explain to me what the 'meele-damage' and 'ranged-damage' changes for the TMs mean? Because it's obviously not the damage of a single unit but also not the damage of the whole squad?
Each models damage.
But why is the melee dmg higher than the ranged dmg? doesnt make sense to me
@Whoopshwoop said:
Could someone explain to me what the 'meele-damage' and 'ranged-damage' changes for the TMs mean? Because it's obviously not the damage of a single unit but also not the damage of the whole squad?
Each models damage.
But why is the melee dmg higher than the ranged dmg? doesnt make sense to me
Like I said, it's probably per-hit. Tacticals probably fire their Bolter two or three times in the time it takes them to punch once. Taking RoF into account, the Tacticals are still more damaging at range than in melee (ironically, according to the tooltips, they do more damage with their Bolters than they do with their Plasma Guns initially now).
@Whoopshwoop said:
Could someone explain to me what the 'meele-damage' and 'ranged-damage' changes for the TMs mean? Because it's obviously not the damage of a single unit but also not the damage of the whole squad?
Each models damage.
But why is the melee dmg higher than the ranged dmg? doesnt make sense to me
Because the base damage (i assume dont have developers notes) doesnt take into cosideration things like accuracy or attack rate. Now that i think about it im not sure if accuracy has datum. Gonna have to crack open some stuff.....
My thoughts on a couple things:
ELDAR
1) Looks like I should build a Soul Shrine first instead of a Warrior Portal. This way I can immediately upgrade Dire Avengers damage and armor. I was doing this anyways, but I think it's mandatory now to make them effective right out of the gate.
2) Wraith Recall: Range reduced from global to 100 - Might as well just have your Wraithgaurd/Blade with you. The nice thing about this ability before was that I could defend on 2 fronts and then recall them to my Wraithlord and switch to attack a location. I guess with the new patch, I have to build Webway Gates all over so they can run to within range to teleport. Boo. lol
3) Warp Spider Mine Activation Time: From 7 seconds To 3 seconds - YAY!
4) Fire Prism changes - YAY!
5) Howling Banshees Reflective Strike: Instead of being invulnerable, Howling Banshees take half damage - So they get mowed down slower if I charge them into a group of Devastator Squads. I hope the damage reflecting wasn't tampered with.
SPACE MARINES
1) Scout Sniper Hidden: Now gains a 10-second speed boost after firing - Since I've seen people spam Scout Snipers, I have a feeling that this 10 second speed boost now makes them a hit and run squad. How fast is this speed boost?
2) Changes to Tac Marines - YAY!
3) Changes to ASM - YAY!
4) Changes to Pred Dest - YAY!
ORKS
Stormboyz - Kamakazee: Changed hotkey from Q to X - It's nice of you to change our hotkeys for us and I know this is a balance patch, but can we get the capability of changing our own keybinds?
Fire on the move doctrine still guts standing dps sadly. And chaplain seems to still dont get any benefits from his 1st lvl of fury. Did he always gain fury from shooting/being in a fight? I had a feeling he only gained it from melee attacks before but im not sure, did not play with him that much. Now melee gives more but shooting/taking damage still gives some.
I think the tooltip is wrong on the fire and move doctrine. Your dps goes back to normal when standing it just displays wrong for some reason. It is working though.
Gonna test it soon, but from notes, it doesn't feel like patch tackled any real issues with the game...
How in the world can you say that in good conscience? The patch specifically made many changes that were directly requested by the community, especially the loudest complaints.
Via ignoring a majority of the content in the patch notes and focusing on a particular thing they feel was unaddressed and problematic.
@Stoner I'm interested to know what problems you think they missed exactly? I'm not saying you are wrong, but saying they didn't tackle any real issues with the game is like Relic saying, "Hey, we patched all these things." when they didn't do anything.
Gonna test it soon, but from notes, it doesn't feel like patch tackled any real issues with the game...
How in the world can you say that in good conscience? The patch specifically made many changes that were directly requested by the community, especially the loudest complaints.
Via ignoring a majority of the content in the patch notes and focusing on a particular thing they feel was unaddressed and problematic.
Same to you. What content did they ignore. "Ignoring a majority of content" is a very general statement. Did they do things other then what was listed in the Patch Notes that you are upset they didn't list?
Gonna test it soon, but from notes, it doesn't feel like patch tackled any real issues with the game...
How in the world can you say that in good conscience? The patch specifically made many changes that were directly requested by the community, especially the loudest complaints.
Via ignoring a majority of the content in the patch notes and focusing on a particular thing they feel was unaddressed and problematic.
Same to you. What content did they ignore. "Ignoring a majority of content" is a very general statement. Did they do things other then what was listed in the Patch Notes that you are upset they didn't list?
He was being sarcastic. Hes saying the poster is focusing on their own issues and ignoring what the patch solved.
Gonna test it soon, but from notes, it doesn't feel like patch tackled any real issues with the game...
How in the world can you say that in good conscience? The patch specifically made many changes that were directly requested by the community, especially the loudest complaints.
Via ignoring a majority of the content in the patch notes and focusing on a particular thing they feel was unaddressed and problematic.
Same to you. What content did they ignore. "Ignoring a majority of content" is a very general statement. Did they do things other then what was listed in the Patch Notes that you are upset they didn't list?
He was being sarcastic. Hes saying the poster is focusing on their own issues and ignoring what the patch solved.
Oh, haha Fair enough. Totally read that wrong. Doh!
I think I might have skimmed over the patch notes, but there are new maps! Granted, they are re-treads of other modes (ahoy Calderis Refinery!), but 4 maps for 3v3 and 4 for 1v1 now, instead of 3 and 3 respectively.
They might also have done something regarding AA. Previously there were a bunch of options, and anything above low would seriously dent framerates. Now it's only on/off. I played with it on and still got the max framerate (I'm playing with V-Sync on). In terms of visual impact, I'm not sure if it makes that much of a difference from what I had before. Low was already enough at 1080p (minimal edges for me).
@AtlasDoomOcculta said:
I think I might have skimmed over the patch notes, but there are new maps! Granted, they are re-treads of other modes (ahoy Calderis Refinery!), but 4 maps for 3v3 and 4 for 1v1 now, instead of 3 and 3 respectively.
They might also have done something regarding AA. Previously there were a bunch of options, and anything above low would seriously dent framerates. Now it's only on/off. I played with it on and still got the max framerate (I'm playing with V-Sync on). In terms of visual impact, I'm not sure if it makes that much of a difference from what I had before. Low was already enough at 1080p (minimal edges for me).
Cool beans.
I know Relic did something to help with 4k, maybe this was part of that change?
Okay, after some matches vs. Orks - it's ++heresy redacted++ tough. I guess having Deathwatch is a must, I have to swarm Trukks with ASM to kill it without any other support like Killteam and losses are pretty brutal. Also, can't be sure here, because Codex says Killa Kans do 22 True damage, but they murder everything pretty fast as before. I think Kans spam is still a thing.
Do anyone have different impressions of SM vs. Ork?
@AtlasDoomOcculta said:
I think I might have skimmed over the patch notes, but there are new maps! Granted, they are re-treads of other modes (ahoy Calderis Refinery!), but 4 maps for 3v3 and 4 for 1v1 now, instead of 3 and 3 respectively.
They might also have done something regarding AA. Previously there were a bunch of options, and anything above low would seriously dent framerates. Now it's only on/off. I played with it on and still got the max framerate (I'm playing with V-Sync on). In terms of visual impact, I'm not sure if it makes that much of a difference from what I had before. Low was already enough at 1080p (minimal edges for me).
Cool beans.
I know Relic did something to help with 4k, maybe this was part of that change?
Also, it's cool that they added a map.
Actually they added two. There's one extra 1v1 map and one extra 3v3 map in automatch now.
Basically they use the grassy forest tileset that only existed on that 2v2 map before. I guess 2v2 must be the least popular mode tho, as that already had the least amount of maps, and it didn't get any extra maps.
@Hellhound said:
I think the tooltip is wrong on the fire and move doctrine. Your dps goes back to normal when standing it just displays wrong for some reason. It is working though.
Indeed, i testet it. If marines stand still they both have the same behaviour. I think the problem is on site of the data miners which look in the XML datas. There is clearly tosee that the "mobile bolter" is weaker then the normal bolter.
But i think they just change the weapon when they move. When they stand, stationary bolter. When they move, the mobile bolter.
I still think they should make the elites and super powers cost some req and power not just elite points one time, this way you have to make a choice do you want to field more units or an elite, do you want that upgrade or an elite, do want to use or super power or field a elite. I think this would make game way more interesting in my opinion
@jambai said:
Feels like eldar was a bit overnerfed.
May seem like that but its too soon to say they are overnurfed. Eldar where very very powerful and easier to play now with the health changes tgey gotta be kitier and dont got the staying power and cant tank more than SM for once.
...
Well, I still think some of them are, but perhaps unintuitive would be more apt.
Maybe there is a good reason. But imagine I had no interest in reading the patch notes, or was a new player, what exactly it the explanation for why this giant explosion ability doesn't damage these other guys, and how would I ever learn about this mechanic. I bet it won't be advertised in-game.
"well.uhhhhh.....it was imbalanced so we made it only damage a fixed number, no matter how many guys are in the explosions radius"
...
Well I don't think it matters with how the game works. Squads share one health bar. How would anyone know either way?
The only time it will get tricky, is when people who do know better, try to do tons of maths and theory crafting, and things my look a little inconsistent. Like why this 5 unit limit isn't universal?
...
Played some more, haven't any matches vs. Ork or Eldar yet sadly, so can't really comment on it. But what I can say from my very limited experience with new patch is that game objectives are somewhat more fleshed out now. Every match have been played till Core is destroyed, turrets are possible to tear down and do not wipe half of your army in 1v1. Not a single surrender on my part or opponents. I guess it was because I met rather equal opponents, and had a feeling that I can fight back throughout the game.
...
This sounds really promising. I always felt the objectives weren't balanced right. Turrets being OP and only protecting early neck snapping rushes, while the core is almost always killed as a formality, with no true affect on the game's outcome. Hopefully these turret tweaks make the objectives more meaningful and in play.
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Comments
RealdogXL
Truck suicide shot now 60s instead of 30 cooldown?
Pawnce
I make videos, so I made a video about my initial impressions on the patch while taking too long to get to my points.
TLDR: Haven't played it yet, so don't expect any hyperbolic, "OMG X IS COMPLETELY USELESS NOW" crap people like to do way too early on. It's basically all the things people expected. I like most of the stuff. Maybe Eldar got hit a bit too hard..? ++heresy redacted++ you, Trukks! I like the idea that relic is considering (at least as far as I can tell) balance at both high end, low end, and future balance considerations within the context of this patch specifically. True damage is scary.
Stoner
Ok, "non" was bad exaggeration on my part.
Played some more, haven't any matches vs. Ork or Eldar yet sadly, so can't really comment on it. But what I can say from my very limited experience with new patch is that game objectives are somewhat more fleshed out now. Every match have been played till Core is destroyed, turrets are possible to tear down and do not wipe half of your army in 1v1. Not a single surrender on my part or opponents. I guess it was because I met rather equal opponents, and had a feeling that I can fight back throughout the game.
Now I have clearer idea what completely kills me aside from low unit survivability and brutal AoE skills - is that game drags on for too long for my taste. After every match I feel completely exhausted... Guess can't do anything about it for now, hopefully they add other gamemodes and pacing will be more akin to my stamina lol.
Whoopshwoop
Could someone explain to me what the 'meele-damage' and 'ranged-damage' changes for the TMs mean? Because it's obviously not the damage of a single unit but also not the damage of the whole squad?
Hellhound
Each models damage.
KotCR
Possibly the damage per shot/wack? Not taking the reload rate and RoF into account.
According to in-game, a full Tac Squad has 40DPS now at range (same as Dire Avengers) and 22DPS in melee (significantly more than Dire Avengers now).
Whoopshwoop
But why is the melee dmg higher than the ranged dmg? doesnt make sense to me
KotCR
Like I said, it's probably per-hit. Tacticals probably fire their Bolter two or three times in the time it takes them to punch once. Taking RoF into account, the Tacticals are still more damaging at range than in melee (ironically, according to the tooltips, they do more damage with their Bolters than they do with their Plasma Guns initially now).
Hellhound
Because the base damage (i assume dont have developers notes) doesnt take into cosideration things like accuracy or attack rate. Now that i think about it im not sure if accuracy has datum. Gonna have to crack open some stuff.....
RedDevilCG
Accuracy is 100% for all non skillshot attacks; similar to starcraft, warcraft etc.
TOGgledShot
My thoughts on a couple things:
ELDAR
1) Looks like I should build a Soul Shrine first instead of a Warrior Portal. This way I can immediately upgrade Dire Avengers damage and armor. I was doing this anyways, but I think it's mandatory now to make them effective right out of the gate.
2) Wraith Recall: Range reduced from global to 100 - Might as well just have your Wraithgaurd/Blade with you. The nice thing about this ability before was that I could defend on 2 fronts and then recall them to my Wraithlord and switch to attack a location. I guess with the new patch, I have to build Webway Gates all over so they can run to within range to teleport. Boo. lol
3) Warp Spider Mine Activation Time: From 7 seconds To 3 seconds - YAY!
4) Fire Prism changes - YAY!
5) Howling Banshees Reflective Strike: Instead of being invulnerable, Howling Banshees take half damage - So they get mowed down slower if I charge them into a group of Devastator Squads. I hope the damage reflecting wasn't tampered with.
SPACE MARINES
1) Scout Sniper Hidden: Now gains a 10-second speed boost after firing - Since I've seen people spam Scout Snipers, I have a feeling that this 10 second speed boost now makes them a hit and run squad. How fast is this speed boost?
2) Changes to Tac Marines - YAY!
3) Changes to ASM - YAY!
4) Changes to Pred Dest - YAY!
ORKS
Stormboyz - Kamakazee: Changed hotkey from Q to X - It's nice of you to change our hotkeys for us and I know this is a balance patch, but can we get the capability of changing our own keybinds?
This is all I really have to say.
Otherwise, Bravo!
Guziol
Fire on the move doctrine still guts standing dps sadly. And chaplain seems to still dont get any benefits from his 1st lvl of fury. Did he always gain fury from shooting/being in a fight? I had a feeling he only gained it from melee attacks before but im not sure, did not play with him that much. Now melee gives more but shooting/taking damage still gives some.
Hellhound
I think the tooltip is wrong on the fire and move doctrine. Your dps goes back to normal when standing it just displays wrong for some reason. It is working though.
KommandantKavu
Via ignoring a majority of the content in the patch notes and focusing on a particular thing they feel was unaddressed and problematic.
TOGgledShot
@Stoner I'm interested to know what problems you think they missed exactly? I'm not saying you are wrong, but saying they didn't tackle any real issues with the game is like Relic saying, "Hey, we patched all these things." when they didn't do anything.
What are the "Real" issues in your opinion?
TOGgledShot
Same to you. What content did they ignore. "Ignoring a majority of content" is a very general statement. Did they do things other then what was listed in the Patch Notes that you are upset they didn't list?
Hellhound
He was being sarcastic. Hes saying the poster is focusing on their own issues and ignoring what the patch solved.
TOGgledShot
Oh, haha Fair enough. Totally read that wrong. Doh!
AtlasDoomOcculta
I think I might have skimmed over the patch notes, but there are new maps! Granted, they are re-treads of other modes (ahoy Calderis Refinery!), but 4 maps for 3v3 and 4 for 1v1 now, instead of 3 and 3 respectively.
They might also have done something regarding AA. Previously there were a bunch of options, and anything above low would seriously dent framerates. Now it's only on/off. I played with it on and still got the max framerate (I'm playing with V-Sync on). In terms of visual impact, I'm not sure if it makes that much of a difference from what I had before. Low was already enough at 1080p (minimal edges for me).
Cool beans.
TOGgledShot
I know Relic did something to help with 4k, maybe this was part of that change?
Also, it's cool that they added a map.
Stoner
Okay, after some matches vs. Orks - it's ++heresy redacted++ tough. I guess having Deathwatch is a must, I have to swarm Trukks with ASM to kill it without any other support like Killteam and losses are pretty brutal. Also, can't be sure here, because Codex says Killa Kans do 22 True damage, but they murder everything pretty fast as before. I think Kans spam is still a thing.
Do anyone have different impressions of SM vs. Ork?
KotCR
Actually they added two. There's one extra 1v1 map and one extra 3v3 map in automatch now.
Basically they use the grassy forest tileset that only existed on that 2v2 map before. I guess 2v2 must be the least popular mode tho, as that already had the least amount of maps, and it didn't get any extra maps.
Larkis
Indeed, i testet it. If marines stand still they both have the same behaviour. I think the problem is on site of the data miners which look in the XML datas. There is clearly tosee that the "mobile bolter" is weaker then the normal bolter.
But i think they just change the weapon when they move. When they stand, stationary bolter. When they move, the mobile bolter.
Alchemist13
I still think they should make the elites and super powers cost some req and power not just elite points one time, this way you have to make a choice do you want to field more units or an elite, do you want that upgrade or an elite, do want to use or super power or field a elite. I think this would make game way more interesting in my opinion
CANNED_F3TUS
May seem like that but its too soon to say they are overnurfed. Eldar where very very powerful and easier to play now with the health changes tgey gotta be kitier and dont got the staying power and cant tank more than SM for once.
Connatic
Well I don't think it matters with how the game works. Squads share one health bar. How would anyone know either way?
The only time it will get tricky, is when people who do know better, try to do tons of maths and theory crafting, and things my look a little inconsistent. Like why this 5 unit limit isn't universal?
Connatic
This sounds really promising. I always felt the objectives weren't balanced right. Turrets being OP and only protecting early neck snapping rushes, while the core is almost always killed as a formality, with no true affect on the game's outcome. Hopefully these turret tweaks make the objectives more meaningful and in play.