@Stoner said:
Do Tacs feel more viable to you, people?
With current pacing, I can technically go T2 faster, because main point building armory was Power Swords. Now, since they moved to T2, I get 50+ req for faster tier and losing Flamers/Plasma upgrade capability, also since more req, I can upgrade Power Nodes earlier. I've been using Tacs (2-3 squads), but I didn't notice any significant improvement on their part. Going ASM/Scouts still has its merits I think, but jump nerf is rather crippling.
well, i was using tacticals since game release, now they can hold their ground overall. WAY WAY better, ASM are still viable, but not as great as it was before.
But again, tireless tacticals have way too much map presence. Let's see what future brings tho.
How do you make use of Tireless exactly? I do not tend to push Tacs ahead without support, and with Tireless they run even faster than ASM, also Elites lag behind too much. What I don't understand?
@jambai said:
Tacticals are now 1400hp, 40 DPS unit. Like I know their DPS was too low before (I've complained about it myself) but something about these numbers feels too much.
Na, tacticals thenselves are fine, the problem as usual is with doctrines, Tireless make tacticals the new Dire Avengers. And slow death together with the deathwatch grenade is a GG army combo.
Tireless is out-of-battle mobility, it's nowhere comparable to webway speed. Slow death is a bit too much (vehicle immobility is unnecessary) I give you that.
out of battle mobility = map PRESENCE, got it?
a squad of tacticals can even negate the NATURAL point.
You use tireless to rush down particular points or deny enemy early tactics.
Against eldar i prefer to rush worker to mid point, and when first tac spawns rush down my natural point if against eldar. Gotta prevent dem bonesingers but now thats not as much a problem so.....still working out where first tac goes.
Against orks this is similar but now the first tac immediately rushes the mid point with the worker to try and kill off the inevitable waagggghh tower. Losing that will set the orks back. Gotta have tireless tacs to even have a chance though.
Even with the nerf assault marines kick ++heresy redacted++ especially in drop pod so i tend to build barracks into drop pod assault with my second worker just like before. After first assault marine is in the shoot/pod then i get flamer tacs. Works great you get disruption and solid dps from your initial two units especially if you went grenades.
Its definitly ok to have your tacs run ahead of your assault marines....encouraged even. Gives the assault marines the element of surprise and keeps your army from clustering.
@Stoner said:
Do Tacs feel more viable to you, people?
With current pacing, I can technically go T2 faster, because main point building armory was Power Swords. Now, since they moved to T2, I get 50+ req for faster tier and losing Flamers/Plasma upgrade capability, also since more req, I can upgrade Power Nodes earlier. I've been using Tacs (2-3 squads), but I didn't notice any significant improvement on their part. Going ASM/Scouts still has its merits I think, but jump nerf is rather crippling.
I think they are right. Line men nothing special, but now they have enough dakka to hold the ground. And with Solarias Walk+Shoot they can do some more bleading when the orkz retreating.
I really like the Laser devastators. I think they make them really great. Not imba great but now they fill there role very well.
I test vs Ki and played tacs + both devastators + kill team + ranged terminators so no settuptime for the heavy bolters. That is a very agile infantery army which produce a giant wave of bolts. Was really fun to look.
I think the reason why eldar are complaining atm is cause they actually gotta relearn how to play their faction. Their cheeze doesnt work anymore. Give it some time and than complain please.
@Stoner said:
Do Tacs feel more viable to you, people?
With current pacing, I can technically go T2 faster, because main point building armory was Power Swords. Now, since they moved to T2, I get 50+ req for faster tier and losing Flamers/Plasma upgrade capability, also since more req, I can upgrade Power Nodes earlier. I've been using Tacs (2-3 squads), but I didn't notice any significant improvement on their part. Going ASM/Scouts still has its merits I think, but jump nerf is rather crippling.
tacs are surely more viable, though imo a little overdone. 40dps and 1.4k hp? hmm i was hoping they would be erm 34dps and 1.6k instead.
tougher but not extremely lethal, more hp to reflect their premium reinforcement cost. most of their lethal dps will still come from their flamer upgrades. still though, anything with heavy armor counters them quite handily.
new req base gain are in my opinion quite unwarranted. alot of upgrades becomes quite a no brainer. too much req at the early and mid game. req gens are effectively useless due to the huge base gain, so guys, dont spend ur power on them. i would prefer if it was a small gain, from 260 to 280 instead. make bleeding more pronounced. stupidly wasting ur unit away should be punished but req bleeds.
i can see why dire avengers are failing, dps nerf on top of webway nerf? thats pretty bad. they cannot pull out fast without losing shields and health, maybe webway gate needs a huge shield generation buff for units out of combat.
Dire Avengers got their range reduced, not their damage. 30 range is standard for shooty units like tacs and shootas... it's actually kind of ridiculous that they had that range for any length of time.
I kinda feel like the eldar players in this thread haven't tried playing the other factions that much. They seem to take for granted that you should be able to get into a firefight and never bleed any models.
@wongtp said:
i can see why dire avengers are failing, dps nerf on top of webway nerf? thats pretty bad. they cannot pull out fast without losing shields and health, maybe webway gate needs a huge shield generation buff for units out of combat.
Dire Avengers didn't get a DPS nerf, the patchnotes are wrong. They had their range reduced from 40 to 30 (Shootas and Tacs also have 30 range, set-up teams have 45) and the Dire Avenger Shield doctrine only gives half as much shield now (from +20% to +10%).
@CANNED_F3TUS said:
I think the reason why eldar are complaining atm is cause they actually gotta relearn how to play their faction. Their cheeze doesnt work anymore. Give it some time and than complain please.
Perhaps that's ultimately the problem with the design of the faction; that it requires cheese strats to be effective.
@wongtp said:
i can see why dire avengers are failing, dps nerf on top of webway nerf? thats pretty bad. they cannot pull out fast without losing shields and health, maybe webway gate needs a huge shield generation buff for units out of combat.
Dire Avengers didn't get a DPS nerf, the patchnotes are wrong. They had their range reduced from 40 to 30 (Shootas and Tacs also have 30 range, set-up teams have 45) and the Dire Avenger Shield doctrine only gives half as much shield now (from +20% to +10%).
@CANNED_F3TUS said:
I think the reason why eldar are complaining atm is cause they actually gotta relearn how to play their faction. Their cheeze doesnt work anymore. Give it some time and than complain please.
Perhaps that's ultimately the problem with the design of the faction; that it requires cheese strats to be effective.
Perhaps eldar got hammered a bit hard. But i feel now eldar players are gonna have to play more careful early game. We all can agree that before the patch eldar were just rediculously good. Too good. Id give it some time. Cause these changes to the eldar were massive and eldar effectivly are gonna have to be played differently. This doesnt mean eldar are in a bad spot. Eldar players just have to adapt and deal with the fact that they cant just dire avenger or ranger spam anymore in early game. They gotta experiment again.
Also not all eldar units. (Those that didnt cheeze) were nurfed. Fire prisms were buffed and their delayed explosion deals true damage. This is a big deal for fire prism. It will be interesting to see how eldar players are gonna use this.
@CANNED_F3TUS said:
I think the reason why eldar are complaining atm is cause they actually gotta relearn how to play their faction. Their cheeze doesnt work anymore. Give it some time and than complain please.
Perhaps that's ultimately the problem with the design of the faction; that it requires cheese strats to be effective.
Perhaps eldar got hammered a bit hard. But i feel now eldar players are gonna have to play more careful early game. We all can agree that before the patch eldar were just rediculously good. Too good. Id give it some time. Cause these changes to the eldar were massive and eldar effectivly are gonna have to be played differently. This doesnt mean eldar are in a bad spot. Eldar players just have to adapt and deal with the fact that they cant just dire avenger or ranger spam anymore in early game. They gotta experiment again.
Also not all eldar units. (Those that didnt cheeze) were nurfed. Fire prisms were buffed and their delayed explosion deals true damage. This is a big deal for fire prism. It will be interesting to see how eldar players are gonna use this.
I think the reaction is fair, when considering that the patch notes do list a few nerfs and very little buffs. It wil take time to adjust to the new changes. Part of the problem as I see it is that Eldar gameplay doesn't really steer you towards using multiple units as oppose to spamming a singular type.
First off I think all this talk is too early give it maybe a few days try out different things then share feedback and not try to be bias.I understand alot like to play certain why with their chosen race,but keep in mind meta's change. I would like to see a good balanced game since I like to play all three races.
No love for ork boyz they seriously need a pass. I love me dem boyz but now even if I have 3 squads they cant do much against the new tactical marines although they still smack Dire Avengers like no tmr but nade hurts. I do feel like the tactical marines feel and play much like I imagined except that I have no fire on the move and don't tell me that there is the option for it as a doctrine because its just silly to me that this point on tactical marines were taken away as a doctrine ~CHAOS CONSUME US!!!~
Dire Avenger nades are still pretty effective so I can't say eldar have been completely gutted.
@Azzakye said:
No love for ork boyz they seriously need a pass. I love me dem boyz but now even if I have 3 squads they cant do much against the new tactical marines although they still smack Dire Avengers like no tmr but nade hurts. I do feel like the tactical marines feel and play much like I imagined except that I have no fire on the move and don't tell me that there is the option for it as a doctrine because its just silly to me that this point on tactical marines were taken away as a doctrine ~CHAOS CONSUME US!!!~
Dire Avenger nades are still pretty effective so I can't say eldar have been completely gutted.
Orks who mix boyz with shoota and loota are great but boyz alone wont be able to get it done. They have a TON of hp for very low req cost tho so they can be amazing tanks for orks real damage dealers. Also everyone else's basic melee unit has power cost too and ork can mix shoota and boyz with no power cost which is cool.
@jambai said:
Eldar was overnerfed I agree. They nerfed the OP stuff but the didn't do anything to compensate the rather mediocre units like the viper.
This is the big joke. They nerfed the only viable units eldar had and did nothing about the weak ones. I just smh. And watch as it takes another 45 days for any correction to be made. ++heresy redacted++ me
@Hellhound said:
Try this. Rather then build only DA or only rangers build a mix. Build one ranger. Use them to scout and spot places to teleport barracks. Build a webway network dont just teleport the same one. Build a couple dark reapers. They can fire beyond their own sight thus why youve got a scout. Build a banshee squad or two. Hide them in stealth cover near where your reapers are firing so they ambush enemies trying to rush your reapers.
Do you even play the game?
Orks would just bomb and throw melee units on your DR, SM would jump or drop a banner on them and their tacts got granades too.
Even if they can't do any of this they always can just walk away from DR.
Intetesting how sm plays heavy bolter or lascannons, huh?
Btw i would prefer to replace tireless with normal grenade doctrine , not 15 normal dmg stuff. But it could be overpowered as DA's grenade. At least to make it similar to orc's.
@Diogen84 said:
Intetesting how sm plays heavy bolter or lascannons, huh?
Btw i would prefer to replace tireless with normal grenade doctrine , not 15 normal dmg stuff. But it could be overpowered as DA's grenade. At least to make it similar to orc's.
I'm sorry if I misunderstood you but the Ork Shoota grenade does far more damage than DA or Tactical grenades:
DA Plasma Grenade: 20 Normal
DA Upgraded Plasma Grenade: 20 Normal, 20 True
Tactical Frag Grenade: 15 Normal
Shoota Stikkbomb: 90 Normal
@Hellhound said:
[...]
Eldar units work best together, not in spam. Hell even with the buffs tacs work best in unison with other units, not spammed. Orks spam, thats their thing. Cant wait for people to stop playing spam-dar.
That's how I used to try and play, but with the gated units and having to take care of your economy too it's surprising how long it can take to get this stuff out.
Now that Rangers got such a harsh price increase, there's almost no reason to take them as scouts - they're far too expensive just as scouts.
This patch fixed most things vocal players whined about. But now the game looks even less balanced. If you put all the pieces together - the Eldar were stripped off their vital advantages, their race mechanics: high mobility and shields, and remain just paper with no credible vehicles. No compensation for the nerfs except for a joke Prism buff. Now what - Eldar will be thinking about any new cheese strategies just to survive. Like spamming those few units that weren't nerfed or increased in cost. Sounds fun.
The true fun starts when every faction is potent and agile. Not when one army is overpowered, the second is under-performing, and the third one is balanced.
And I'm glad that even many SM players abmit that current situation is far from perfect.
For those who saying about crying low-skilled Eldar players - I created this topic before playing the patch. I just do not approve of this new direction. If you nerf the whole faction, at least don't buff their counterpart. When you listen to your community, take a look at the bigger picture.
Later I played and won two 3x3 matches, and guess what, I was the only non-SM player.
So much for diversity now.
@DonDimon said:
the Eldar were stripped off their vital advantages, their race mechanics: high mobility and shields
wrong
their race mechanics are still the same.
2 doctrines have been nerfed, that's different, you could play without these 2 doctrines.
No one disagreed that these 2 doctrines were not problematic. It made DAs impossible to bleed. And that's why all eldar players played with these 2 doctrines, now they have to adapt again.
I'm not saying that eldar have not been overnerfed btw, actually, I think the range reduction on DAs is over the top, 35 would have been fine imo.
And removing true damage on scorpions too, I think they should have reduce the critical true damage on objectives only, like they did to scrap suicide stormboy.
As a mainly SM player myself, i must admit this patch is completely over the top. Tacs were weak before, that's for sure, they didn't stand against anything, but putting their DPS to 40 while increasing their health AND lowering reiforcement cost is just too much.
Add to that the huge nerf DA took in the face made the base unit interaction reversed.
When you balance something, you have to make a first choice : what unit is in the right state? DA were too powerfull? or tacs were too weak?
Then you take the decision : nerfing DA OR give more strength to Tacs, but doing both is not healthy at all.
@Mournilg said:
As a mainly SM player myself, i must admit this patch is completely over the top. Tacs were weak before, that's for sure, they didn't stand against anything, but putting their DPS to 40 while increasing their health AND lowering reiforcement cost is just too much.
Add to that the huge nerf DA took in the face made the base unit interaction reversed.
When you balance something, you have to make a first choice : what unit is in the right state? DA were too powerfull? or tacs were too weak?
Then you take the decision : nerfing DA OR give more strength to Tacs, but doing both is not healthy at all.
"putting their DPS to 40 while increasing their health AND lowering reiforcement cost is just too much."
Wait they increased tacs health? Are you sure about that because I am missing it in the notes.
@GuruSkippy yes, I generalize a lot, but my main point is clear and looks like we all can agree on it
As @Mournilg has put it nice and simple, and I paraphrase: "You take the decision: nerfing Eldar OR give more strength to SM, but doing both is not healthy at all."
@DonDimon said: @GuruSkippy yes, I generalize a lot, but my main point is clear and looks like we all can agree on it
As @Mournilg has put it nice and simple, and I paraphrase: "You take the decision: nerfing Eldar OR give more strength to SM, but doing both is not healthy at all."
"putting their DPS to 40 while increasing their health AND lowering reiforcement cost is just too much."
Wait they increased tacs health? Are you sure about that because I am missing it in the notes.
Wops, i misread on a post, they indeed didn't get health increased. Just the reinforcement cost decreased.
Their durability is the consequence of the Eldar range reduction and their increased dps, meaning they rip through shield much more faster and force more movement from eldar players, decreasing their dps because they can't outrange them anymore.
They now bleed models fast when shields are down. And i'm not even talking about flamers xD
Someone made a great mathematic of Tacs vs DA in a straight shoot at each other pre-patch, showing how model bleed made tacticals incapable of even threatening DA (i think the result was Tacs were wiped and DA lost only one model)
I would be curious to see now with the patch.
@DonDimon said:
This patch fixed most things vocal players whined about. But now the game looks even less balanced. If you put all the pieces together - the Eldar were stripped off their vital advantages, their race mechanics: high mobility and shields, and remain just paper with no credible vehicles. No compensation for the nerfs except for a joke Prism buff. Now what - Eldar will be thinking about any new cheese strategies just to survive. Like spamming those few units that weren't nerfed or increased in cost. Sounds fun.
The true fun starts when every faction is potent and agile. Not when one army is overpowered, the second is under-performing, and the third one is balanced.
And I'm glad that even many SM players abmit that current situation is far from perfect.
For those who saying about crying low-skilled Eldar players - I created this topic before playing the patch. I just do not approve of this new direction. If you nerf the whole faction, at least don't buff their counterpart. When you listen to your community, take a look at the bigger picture.
Later I played and won two 3x3 matches, and guess what, I was the only non-SM player.
So much for diversity now.
If you didn't abuse the broken stuff then all that got changed for eldar was dire avenger range decrease and sniper nerf(which was uncalled for).
Btw played some games with DA spam vs tactical spam in early game and DA spam seems to work almost as good as before. Tacs cant inflict almost any loses on dire avengers under fof without flamers or asm\blind grenade from scouts etc, and lose models themselves. I'm also using stealth doctrine for DA though, so that they can escape with no loses even whithout fof if the sm player doesn't bring servitors.
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Comments
Stoner
How do you make use of Tireless exactly? I do not tend to push Tacs ahead without support, and with Tireless they run even faster than ASM, also Elites lag behind too much. What I don't understand?
frumpylumps
misposted.
redScare
Replay or it didn´t happen
Hellhound
You use tireless to rush down particular points or deny enemy early tactics.
Against eldar i prefer to rush worker to mid point, and when first tac spawns rush down my natural point if against eldar. Gotta prevent dem bonesingers but now thats not as much a problem so.....still working out where first tac goes.
Against orks this is similar but now the first tac immediately rushes the mid point with the worker to try and kill off the inevitable waagggghh tower. Losing that will set the orks back. Gotta have tireless tacs to even have a chance though.
Even with the nerf assault marines kick ++heresy redacted++ especially in drop pod so i tend to build barracks into drop pod assault with my second worker just like before. After first assault marine is in the shoot/pod then i get flamer tacs. Works great you get disruption and solid dps from your initial two units especially if you went grenades.
Its definitly ok to have your tacs run ahead of your assault marines....encouraged even. Gives the assault marines the element of surprise and keeps your army from clustering.
Larkis
I think they are right. Line men nothing special, but now they have enough dakka to hold the ground. And with Solarias Walk+Shoot they can do some more bleading when the orkz retreating.
I really like the Laser devastators. I think they make them really great. Not imba great but now they fill there role very well.
I test vs Ki and played tacs + both devastators + kill team + ranged terminators so no settuptime for the heavy bolters. That is a very agile infantery army which produce a giant wave of bolts. Was really fun to look.
CANNED_F3TUS
I think the reason why eldar are complaining atm is cause they actually gotta relearn how to play their faction. Their cheeze doesnt work anymore. Give it some time and than complain please.
wongtp
tacs are surely more viable, though imo a little overdone. 40dps and 1.4k hp? hmm i was hoping they would be erm 34dps and 1.6k instead.
tougher but not extremely lethal, more hp to reflect their premium reinforcement cost. most of their lethal dps will still come from their flamer upgrades. still though, anything with heavy armor counters them quite handily.
new req base gain are in my opinion quite unwarranted. alot of upgrades becomes quite a no brainer. too much req at the early and mid game. req gens are effectively useless due to the huge base gain, so guys, dont spend ur power on them. i would prefer if it was a small gain, from 260 to 280 instead. make bleeding more pronounced. stupidly wasting ur unit away should be punished but req bleeds.
i can see why dire avengers are failing, dps nerf on top of webway nerf? thats pretty bad. they cannot pull out fast without losing shields and health, maybe webway gate needs a huge shield generation buff for units out of combat.
Arbit
Dire Avengers got their range reduced, not their damage. 30 range is standard for shooty units like tacs and shootas... it's actually kind of ridiculous that they had that range for any length of time.
I kinda feel like the eldar players in this thread haven't tried playing the other factions that much. They seem to take for granted that you should be able to get into a firefight and never bleed any models.
Svanh
Dire Avengers didn't get a DPS nerf, the patchnotes are wrong. They had their range reduced from 40 to 30 (Shootas and Tacs also have 30 range, set-up teams have 45) and the Dire Avenger Shield doctrine only gives half as much shield now (from +20% to +10%).
Akranadas
Perhaps that's ultimately the problem with the design of the faction; that it requires cheese strats to be effective.
wongtp
ahh i see, thanks for the clarification.
CANNED_F3TUS
Perhaps eldar got hammered a bit hard. But i feel now eldar players are gonna have to play more careful early game. We all can agree that before the patch eldar were just rediculously good. Too good. Id give it some time. Cause these changes to the eldar were massive and eldar effectivly are gonna have to be played differently. This doesnt mean eldar are in a bad spot. Eldar players just have to adapt and deal with the fact that they cant just dire avenger or ranger spam anymore in early game. They gotta experiment again.
Also not all eldar units. (Those that didnt cheeze) were nurfed. Fire prisms were buffed and their delayed explosion deals true damage. This is a big deal for fire prism. It will be interesting to see how eldar players are gonna use this.
Akranadas
I think the reaction is fair, when considering that the patch notes do list a few nerfs and very little buffs. It wil take time to adjust to the new changes. Part of the problem as I see it is that Eldar gameplay doesn't really steer you towards using multiple units as oppose to spamming a singular type.
Chokolata
They nerfed many aspects of Eldar tier1 at the same time. While all of these nerfs individually look justified, together they seem over the top.
But by far the biggest nerf was to the webway doctrine.
WarlordGrievous
First off I think all this talk is too early give it maybe a few days try out different things then share feedback and not try to be bias.I understand alot like to play certain why with their chosen race,but keep in mind meta's change. I would like to see a good balanced game since I like to play all three races.
Azzakye
No love for ork boyz they seriously need a pass. I love me dem boyz but now even if I have 3 squads they cant do much against the new tactical marines although they still smack Dire Avengers like no tmr but nade hurts. I do feel like the tactical marines feel and play much like I imagined except that I have no fire on the move and don't tell me that there is the option for it as a doctrine because its just silly to me that this point on tactical marines were taken away as a doctrine ~CHAOS CONSUME US!!!~
Dire Avenger nades are still pretty effective so I can't say eldar have been completely gutted.
Wardemon
Orks who mix boyz with shoota and loota are great but boyz alone wont be able to get it done. They have a TON of hp for very low req cost tho so they can be amazing tanks for orks real damage dealers. Also everyone else's basic melee unit has power cost too and ork can mix shoota and boyz with no power cost which is cool.
MrBenis
This is the big joke. They nerfed the only viable units eldar had and did nothing about the weak ones. I just smh. And watch as it takes another 45 days for any correction to be made. ++heresy redacted++ me
Diogen84
Intetesting how sm plays heavy bolter or lascannons, huh?
Btw i would prefer to replace tireless with normal grenade doctrine , not 15 normal dmg stuff. But it could be overpowered as DA's grenade. At least to make it similar to orc's.
Svanh
I'm sorry if I misunderstood you but the Ork Shoota grenade does far more damage than DA or Tactical grenades:
DA Plasma Grenade: 20 Normal
DA Upgraded Plasma Grenade: 20 Normal, 20 True
Tactical Frag Grenade: 15 Normal
Shoota Stikkbomb: 90 Normal
Krakza
That's how I used to try and play, but with the gated units and having to take care of your economy too it's surprising how long it can take to get this stuff out.
Now that Rangers got such a harsh price increase, there's almost no reason to take them as scouts - they're far too expensive just as scouts.
DonDimon
This patch fixed most things vocal players whined about. But now the game looks even less balanced. If you put all the pieces together - the Eldar were stripped off their vital advantages, their race mechanics: high mobility and shields, and remain just paper with no credible vehicles. No compensation for the nerfs except for a joke Prism buff. Now what - Eldar will be thinking about any new cheese strategies just to survive. Like spamming those few units that weren't nerfed or increased in cost. Sounds fun.
The true fun starts when every faction is potent and agile. Not when one army is overpowered, the second is under-performing, and the third one is balanced.
And I'm glad that even many SM players abmit that current situation is far from perfect.
For those who saying about crying low-skilled Eldar players - I created this topic before playing the patch. I just do not approve of this new direction. If you nerf the whole faction, at least don't buff their counterpart. When you listen to your community, take a look at the bigger picture.
Later I played and won two 3x3 matches, and guess what, I was the only non-SM player.
So much for diversity now.
GuruSkippy
wrong
their race mechanics are still the same.
2 doctrines have been nerfed, that's different, you could play without these 2 doctrines.
No one disagreed that these 2 doctrines were not problematic. It made DAs impossible to bleed. And that's why all eldar players played with these 2 doctrines, now they have to adapt again.
I'm not saying that eldar have not been overnerfed btw, actually, I think the range reduction on DAs is over the top, 35 would have been fine imo.
And removing true damage on scorpions too, I think they should have reduce the critical true damage on objectives only, like they did to scrap suicide stormboy.
Mournilg
As a mainly SM player myself, i must admit this patch is completely over the top. Tacs were weak before, that's for sure, they didn't stand against anything, but putting their DPS to 40 while increasing their health AND lowering reiforcement cost is just too much.
Add to that the huge nerf DA took in the face made the base unit interaction reversed.
When you balance something, you have to make a first choice : what unit is in the right state? DA were too powerfull? or tacs were too weak?
Then you take the decision : nerfing DA OR give more strength to Tacs, but doing both is not healthy at all.
Wardemon
"putting their DPS to 40 while increasing their health AND lowering reiforcement cost is just too much."
Wait they increased tacs health? Are you sure about that because I am missing it in the notes.
DonDimon
@GuruSkippy yes, I generalize a lot, but my main point is clear and looks like we all can agree on it
As @Mournilg has put it nice and simple, and I paraphrase: "You take the decision: nerfing Eldar OR give more strength to SM, but doing both is not healthy at all."
redScare
Orks would like to have a word with you, I think.
Mournilg
Wops, i misread on a post, they indeed didn't get health increased. Just the reinforcement cost decreased.
Their durability is the consequence of the Eldar range reduction and their increased dps, meaning they rip through shield much more faster and force more movement from eldar players, decreasing their dps because they can't outrange them anymore.
They now bleed models fast when shields are down. And i'm not even talking about flamers xD
Someone made a great mathematic of Tacs vs DA in a straight shoot at each other pre-patch, showing how model bleed made tacticals incapable of even threatening DA (i think the result was Tacs were wiped and DA lost only one model)
I would be curious to see now with the patch.
Bersercker
If you didn't abuse the broken stuff then all that got changed for eldar was dire avenger range decrease and sniper nerf(which was uncalled for).
Btw played some games with DA spam vs tactical spam in early game and DA spam seems to work almost as good as before. Tacs cant inflict almost any loses on dire avengers under fof without flamers or asm\blind grenade from scouts etc, and lose models themselves. I'm also using stealth doctrine for DA though, so that they can escape with no loses even whithout fof if the sm player doesn't bring servitors.