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Holistic Feedback from Korean Players EP02
Ratata
GREETINGS, FELLOW DOW3 PLAYERS. WE COME IN PEACE
https://community.dawnofwar.com/discussion/12723/holistic-feedback-from-korean-players/p1
This is our most recent feedback following our previous one above.
We are actually very happy how SEGA and Relic heeded our feedback and implemented most of them in a valid way.
- No more early to late ASM, Trukk, Ranger spams
- Nerf on AOE skills and increased early game resource gain has made Tier 0~1 infantry usable (= Good for OAKS!)
- And of course, no more sudden snowballing that insta ended the game after losing a single fight.)
- Stronk late game Eldar Vehicle (Hail the FIAR PRIZM)
We see it very viable change, but its still early stage of the new balance patch, so we should keep our eyes on it.
As said before, This is opinion from Various Players in Korea.
Not everyone thinks the same, and I don't agree with everything on the list either.
But we are sharing for the reference.
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Gameplay and Balance
#
Servitor - Servo Skulls
We are not sure if this was intended but when servo skull is trying to leech on enemy unit, It loses its stealth and suddenly gets killed end up doing nothing.
Could you check with this?
Weird Object Mechanism
This was also on our last Feed back.
- Even if your units can visibly see them, they don't shoot insight and they just walk over it and get killed if don't actually order them to shoot it.
- Squiggs are very powerful skill that can casted periodically but all you can hear is some short squeal. If you look for your units, it already went KABOOOM.
You should make units auto-attack these objects or find better way to counter it.
Workers Too Useful?
A servitor punching A Space marine Stops the whole squad to stop shooting???
We think this is a weird thing to happen, 50 req unit that lacks priority to kill suddenly closes up to root and ranged squad look kind of unfair and wierd
- Worker units should have ranged attack with very short range, with no melee
New Fire Prism TOO STRONK
Yeah... we are grateful with the buff. But we think this guy is having too much power for now, especially when they are spammed on team games.
Little adjustment would be nice?
- Keep the current specs, return the power cost to 375
- Keep the Price, Change the damage type and ratio (first beam strike with high AP damage and less explosion damage)
- Let it change between Lace mode and Dispersed mode like previous DOW series (with some CD for changing weapon type)
Drop pods are too good?
3 Death Storm pods falling from skies into your last holding line (next to power core and turrets) usually leaves no choices to defenders. could be nice if you could limit the drop pod deployment near Enemy core objects.
Comments
Ratata
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User Interface and User Convenience
Observer Feature
For us Koreans, we had a big BOOM of warhammer after its first debut at WCS. Broadcasting games works very great as an advertisement.
Having observer fuction would let people run minor private leages which would support and advertise the game to the public.
MR.Robin our twitch streamer is probably one of the most known broadcaster in Korea, he implies that adding Observer Function would greatly help the game for sure.
Free Camera Angle
We had this long time ago, why not anymore? Some of the users even made the custom script for it.
BGM Improvement
I heard you guys have great in OST... we can even hear those great musics in single player...
why not in multiplayer?
Auto User content downloading
We can now finally access steam workshop in DOW. But you must download the same map to play prior to play with other people...
why not let us download it in the game lobby? So that we can just play it together.
Hard do tell which units that you have selected
Only thing that let's you know that you picked certain squad is outlines.
Admit it. This is very hard to know at crowded battlefield.
Hard to pick the Excact Squad we want.
It is rather impossible to pick certain squad if the units are all mixed up. could you make squard icons not overlap, and also make it bigger?
Its very annoying when you also select a group which includes squad far away but having one squad member among the terget group.
Pings Too hard to use
Ping Menu: Ctrl + B Ping Attack: Ctrl + H Ping Defend: Ctrl + J Ping Capture: Ctrl + G Ping Caution: Ctrl + L
Do you really think we have time to press these buttons on urgent situations? Some MOBA games have good example for this.
Better ping visibility
It's hard to notice the ping because you only hear comments from teammate's announcer.
Let us change the location of Chat UI
Some of us don't like the current location of chat UI, but forcing this to others are not fair.
Give us option to not select non-combatant units
It's annoying when the worker as selected unnoticed and dies away by charging into enemy unit group.
Let us have option to not select them when dragged with other combat units.
Syncronized Skill use option
Let us have option to chooose whether units use skill on same time or to keep the old way.
Ratata
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Single Player
TEXT TOO SMALL
It has terrible visability. I think I saw this opinion in the forums too.
Auto save / Check Point Functino
This would help us a lot... Really
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Multi Player
Let us match with people from other regions too
This is option from Korea high rankers (including Babyubyu, who has been in rank 5 for all races)
Currently we only meet players from APAC area. We can never meet great players from other regions like CataClaw, Vindicare (Jin is with us :P)
If we can't play with them, is there any meaning having a global ladder board?
It would be better having regional ladders rather than having ghost rankers.
Louder Search Found notice
Sad to talk about this, but have to wait for at least 5~10 minutes to search a game.
We often search web or play lil games to kill time, but since the notice is too small, we often lose chance to change our doctrines and elites.
Can we have somewhat better alarm for match found?
Let us see other person's doctrine on game loading
After the Countdown, we see what doctrines and elites. But it is hard to know what the doctrines are since they have sime tiny icons with the unit portrait that looks alost the same.
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Bugs and Glitches
Unicode based characters break on custom games
Title, and messages often show as square instead of Chinese characters, Korean, Japanese.
Can we have a fix?
Losing Control when Tabbed out
Sometimes when you Alt+Tab out from the game while loading, you can't select or control units for some unkown reasons.
It doesn't happen all the time, but it happens.
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MISC
Share Devlovoper notes
If you guys share what you think and plan for the future, we would feel less worried.
Also, we could share opinions when we see something not very vailed
Transparent communications with players never failed the games as far as I know.
JUST AN IDEA - Only let an infantry to capture a point
Minor opinion. on DOW1, Infantry
JUST AN IDEA - add conquest mode (like Dark Crusade)
Alchemist13
Yeah, if they fleshed out a conquest mode that would be pretty sweet, here is my idea for a great conquest style mode.
https://community.dawnofwar.com/discussion/comment/47037#Comment_47037
frumpylumps
Agree on all points, especially about the workers.
RedDevilCG
Love all your suggestions in post #2 and #3.
wongtp
love it, alot of UI and QOL changes.
yes to pings, they are bad and not really well implemented. i think HOTS has a much better implementation of different types of pings in game.
vindicarex
I don't think a 2 or 3 second increase on the time it takes for the drop pod to hit the ground would be uncalled for...
In DoW2, the drop pod took quite a bit to hit the ground starting from call-in, and therefore took a bit of strategic timing to execute properly.
At the moment, drop pods feel a bit like a panic button ("hey, drop your guys here to instantly reinforce a push or respond to a harass").
While I understand this is the principle strength of drop pods as they are designed - I think the slight increase in casting time will not only give the opposing player a little more time to react and analyze the situation, but also make the drop pods feel more like a strategic deep-strike option rather than the "teleport this unit here" mechanic.
As for the feedback from @Ratata , I'm pretty indifferent when it comes to UI/Menu/Option features so I'll stay out of that.
I do agree though that workers have too much utility between scouting, early game melee, and the ability to capture and contest points.
I've expressed this view once, but I would like to see workers "nerfed" so that they can no longer capture points (and leave that job solely to combat units). In this way, players will not "spam" early workers to capture all the map (and then use them to melee ranged squads since they are already there and all...).
Ekko_Tek
I must be alone in liking all the utility workers have in this game. Gives them some more relevance throughout the game and adds to the micro requirements. Plus, re: drop pods, having them around gives more advance notice of the pod coming.
RedDevilCG
Aye, workers reveal where drop pods and the banner will drop. It gives plenty of time to move out of the way. No need to increase drop time.
CANNED_F3TUS
Good feedback and suggestions agree on all of them.
Stoner
@vindicarex
In fact you can hear the sound of activated drop pod way before it drops if you pay attention, but drop indicator drawn usually too late to react. I've been able to dodge pods pretty successfully when I anticipate where opponent will most likely drop them. I think if they just draw indicator earlier, there's no need for longer delay.
@Ratata
Could you please elaborate on "no more early Trukk spam"? I've seen it basically from all Orks I've been playing against and countering it is pretty hard. They get more Trukks with bigger Req flow, but my regular infantry can't deal with them as well without any true/ap damage so early in the game.
Also pretty strange not to see a single word on weird shift in economy, where building Req Nodes is pretty much useless and all map control focuses on Power Node points.
Seeing you guys find Fire Prism powerful is pretty unexpected. Well, I guess you know what you're talking about.
3 Deathstorm Pods can come pretty late in the game, where you have some armor and lots of AP/True damage options. It's brutal disruption, I agree, but if 3 of those drop on your last defensive line around Core, I'd say it was already GG before that.
On pretty much everything else I completely agree.
Wardemon
I am surprised they think fire prism needs nerf. I disagree with this because of the fact fire prism is 19 army count. Predator tank is 17 and whirlwind the SM artillery is 12.
I notice when I build a fire prism it slows down my resource gain so much it is very hard to get many other power cost units on the field.
P.S. Whirlwind with solaria doctrine should be examined I am shocked they are more concerned about fire prism than that.
GuruSkippy
Very constructive post
I'd love to see more posts like this.
And also, love the fact that Korean community think that FirePrism is now good, while Occidental community still refuses to play with it.
PS : I think fire prism is good too
PS2 : about drop pods, if you have a detector, you'll see the drop pod marker sooner
Ratata
@WARDEMON @Stoner
Some of you doubt the power of the new Fire Prism, but this is Korean Confirmed OP
On 1v1, Korean Eldars spam DAs for harrassing (4~7 depending on style) and 2~4 DRs for area control.
When they gain enough mobility with multiple webways, they keep harrass the power generators or chip off enemy infantry, forcing them to spend resource (esp. Power)
As they try to counter the massed DAs and DRs with anti-infantry vehicles, surprise them with the Wraith Guards.
As time goes on build more Dark Reapers instead of reinforcing damaged DAs
And Thanks to It's Massive Range and Skimmer ability, It can shoot enemy units and base from the ridge and cliffs, which makes it impossible for Melee Walkers or ASM to melee it.
Fire Prisms easily pick up enemy anti-tank infantry while wall of DA,DR blocks any infantry approach.
Dropping Dreadnought is easilly countered by scattered DR attack + Fire Prisms running over the walls(+shooting at dreadnoughts).
On 3v3, the New Fire Prism spam is a new issue since you have enough power from more resource points. Since the Knockback from explosion is gone, it works too good with the new True damage.
Infantry no longer fly away from the blast, they juts melt when hit by syncronized explosion.
I had Good Replays showing this Nasty DA/DR to Prism tactics, but since the hotfix few days ago,I can't really show it to the community.
The fact we want to talk over is: It's hard to counter late game Fire Prisms on any matches.
frumpylumps
Nice to hear Koreans aren't throwing their hands up in dispair and instead are still using DA despite the nerfs.
I feel like Eldar skimmers are too hard to counter in the hands of a good player. On maps like Port its especially bad.
jambai
Glad you mentioned Drop Pods. It's ++heresy redacted++ silly and they really need to look on those things. Deathstorm does needs a nerf too considering the requisition change, I ALWAYS have at least one in store for the next fight, every single fight (almost)...
Wardemon
Now I will jump back on SM side and say I don't think you can easily nerf deathstorms. If a player has anti armor they die extremely fast. Not to mention I don't think they benefit from upgrades?? Anyone know for sure? They may hardly ever be used if nerfed. If they are anticipated they are very easily countered and unlike other units cannot be taken around the map or repaired to save your investment like if you paid for a normal unit.
P.S. as someone said earlier about drop pods if you have a detector with you it will allow you to respond and get out of the way. I feel like some people are ignoring the counter play and saying they come too fast because they don't know or bother to use the counters.
Gregoire
For deathstorms people need spotters so they can anticipate it. It's an expensive, single use ability so it has downsides, people just don't mitigate that risk effectively.
That said I can see how it's a bit OP dropping them on the core in a last ditch fight... but if you can drop three... the game was already over at that point as someone said earlier in this thread.
Builders melee-ing is definitely a problem, I'm going to start taking builders on my early forays as disabling a squad via melee (for a surprisingly long period of time) is very potent. Unless people counter it with their own workers of course!!
Armageddon
No way Fire Prisms need nerfing. They suck. If anything they need buffs, meaning cost reduction, higher health, etc.
jambai
You can 'easily' nerf everything in any game ever me thinks. A nerf doesn't HAVE to be a relic-style ner.
Which is: several aspects nerfed at once = overnerf.
Players doesn't necessarily have enough anti-armor when it first arrives but that's not the real issue. It does WAY too much damage and you can drop it in the middle of enemy infantry, they'll ALL disappear if not retreating or, in the late game, focus it down. Far too much effort to take it down for much of the game. And you got to do that in the midst of enemy stuns, knockdowns etc. It's not easily destroyed I'm afraid but I wouldn't nerf it's durability.
It takes like 5 seconds to drop, regardless of any detector. And you use it when battle is committed, not as an initiator or anything such. The only counter play is: destroy it or retreat which relies on the SM player being dumb and misusing it.
It cannot be taken around the map really? How's that an argument?
I prefer btw, a nerf to DROP PODS first and foremost. Deathstorm can get a pass for now.
RedDevilCG
@Ratata does the Korean community use Gamereplays.org to upload replays? It sounds like there's a different meta going on over there, and it would interesting to see some of their matches.
Cheers!
jonoliveira12
I agree, I hardly see them at all.
frumpylumps
I'd love to see some top ladder matches as well. I used to pay money to watch koreans play starcraft2.
It is pretty interesting how the "meta" of games can be different across different regions. It goes to show you that common perceptions of how the game is supposed to be played, aren't necessarily correct. This is especially bad in a small community that is often influenced by group-think where one prominent individual, such as a popular caster, complaints about something and everyone starts repeating it without really understanding why that particular thing is the way it is or if it is truly imbalanced.
Stoner
To all guys having issues with Deathstorms and Drop Pods in general, you really overrate the issue here, try to play SM more, you'll see it isn't as good you think it is.
You have to take into account overall superior micro of Korean players, not many can pull off tricks they do in heavy micro games, and like that guy broke down how exactly they use Fire Prism, it actually makes a lot of sense, considering you really can do this in the heat of battle.
RedDevilCG
@Bigamo Are you based out of Europe or NA? I know they get connected up with SEA countries.
CourtJester
Another fine post my friend.
On the drop pods, I'd argue that simply destroying them is plenty of counterplay as they die very quickly to AV damage. At most I'd say make holding them in drop pods require population (don't recall if they do) so that sitting on 3 comes at a price of lower req/power due to increased pop.
Bitterman
I believe Relic will take all of this into account... It just's just a matter of how long?