@CANNED_F3TUS said:
Not sure but we will probably kniw more about races in a month or 2. I think the only thing holding them back is Balance of the first 3.
I support getting new races after the original 3 are balanced, and the game has a well stable community. I would advise against just throwing in new faction while it is not, as that will not grab in new customers, and may actually displease the current community.
There are a couple reasons to believe Relic will be releasing a new race within 2-3 months (I personally hope for next month).
1) There are a couple people who have been to relic and seen what they are working on such as InControL (maybe Cataclaw?). They have said that what they have seen is pretty exciting and cool, but they cannot talk about it. This seems to indicate a race since its hard to imgaine why these players would get excited about skins or more game modes. I personally wouldn't be too excited for anything that wasn't significant additional content.
2) Relic has hinted at new races (chaos and necrons) in the singleplayer. Chaos was literally in the singleplayer via models and voice lines of all races interacting with chaos targets. This indicates significant development time in making and fleshing out a race imo. It would be werid to develope these assets and then just shelve them, especially when their goal is to release more races.
2.1) Furthermore, Relic finished the single player months ago. I find it hard to believe that they just sat on their hands since then doing basically nothing. We know they do not prioritize balance and mini content (like maps), which leads me to believe they are instead working on a race. Unless the dev team is super slow and just sucks at doing updates (1 small content update and 1 balance patch since release), I think they are spending time doing something else.
2.2) Based on alpha impressions, it seems like relic has pretty much "finished" all the races' units and elites since late 2016. They probably decided to begin making another race after polishing these races (around right before the start of closed beta). At least, this would've been my logical decision, since again they clearly did not work hard on anything else as seen by lack of maps and other content.
3) Some people seem to think a recent comment by Kat_Re is implying no race is being worked on. This may be true, but there are a couple reasons to doubt this. First, Kat probably doesn't have the authority to drop information on new races (above her Paygrade). Second, her answer can also be seen as a dodge to the question "can we get a new race next patch?" She could just be saying "no we can't release it next patch since it takes a lot of time and you can't expect them so soon."
I could be wrong, maybe the dev team is just super slow. Maybe trying to implement all the elites and doctrines is a much longer process than I realize. But I personally think that a new race is somewhat around the corner. After all, I believe Relic has said they want to add a lot of races, so a somewhat fast scheduled (every 4-5 months) seems likely).
Hmmmmmm............ That makes some sense to me. Especially third point. So who knows, if Relic would add new race soon.
Of course I'm still doubting it, but maybe they are working at new race in secret. Right now, however they seems probably focusing on a community feedback.
Honestly, people need to calm down about additional factions. It took years for Dawn of War 1 and 2 to expand upon it's starting factions and back then they did not have the complex elite and doctrine system. Balancing an RTS beyond 3 factions becomes very complicated and there is a reason why pretty much every RTS has 3 factions.
Id like to see balance and all that stuff, but this game is soooo dead ... look at DC or SS (yeah here we go again), balance was total trash, they never fixed that, but my friends and I spent hundreds of hours because you could just derp around with different races and combinations, who cares they werent balanced we played for fun ...
now the game is bad AND lacks content
@Praxis said:
Honestly, people need to calm down about additional factions. It took years for Dawn of War 1 and 2 to expand upon it's starting factions and back then they did not have the complex elite and doctrine system. Balancing an RTS beyond 3 factions becomes very complicated and there is a reason why pretty much every RTS has 3 factions.
Complex elite and Doctrine system ? I think you miss spelled simplistic elite and Doctrine system. The system was added to dumb down the gameplay to try a capture the wider audience ( hence the perks load out system a.ka. call of duty system, oh sorry I mean the doctrine system). They tried to simplify the game so it would be easier to balance and be more easier for the wider audience to play with its dumb downed gameplay and it totally backfired for relic,.which is a good thing because after this ++heresy redacted++ up they look like they are going to back to the roots and look at what they did right with the first to games and what they did wrong, to help them influence future patches for dawn of war 3.
Relic has a very long road ahead of them to properly revive this game, which they are probably going to have to get right and gain back some of there fanbase that they lost after releasing this unfinished game, before they will be able to release a new race. So I am purely speculating this pushed back the release of a new race as they desperately try and fix this game or maybe Sega said fix this mess before releasing any dlc or expansions.
Complex elite and Doctrine system ? I think you miss spelled simplistic elite and Doctrine system.
Agreed,
For me this actually limits what you can do in game.
You have so many less options during a match, which means the main focus you have is this “Fast-Pace” “Micro-Intense” “Super Mario Style Spammy” RTS that limits you on what strategic choice you can make in a match that is suppose to be based on Strategy.
I have given these suggestions before; big changes can make a big difference:
Economy Adjustment
---Patch it back to the pre-patch with less adjustments; the base Req. increase on top of the increase Reimbursements for the first two escalation phases seems like it was way too much.
---or Remove the Escalation Phase.
---or Create a New Mode that allows the Economy to play like COH 1 or DOW 1 played, with just a steady stream of income. (leaving the Escalation as a different Objective Selection for each Map.)
Line Unit Adjustment
---Stronger or slightly stronger Line Units could of helped with that big hole in the game pre-patch, where if you lost one unit (which was so easy) if felt like such a big lost.
*****What fun is it in having Hero/Elite units if all in-game units can die so easy?
Add More Cover Options
---Maybe a Building Mechanic where units show up on the roof, kind of like the Bubble, but on top of a building. One unit from each faction doing bonus dps to units in buildings.
Transfer the Army Doctrine System to an In-Game Tech-Tree System like COH 1
---Think of Company of Heroes 1 Mods like Blitzkrieg or Europe at War.
Make All Elite Units available In-Game
---Think of Warcraft 3.
---Here you could do something like a HQ, Elite, Colossal System; Only 1 each of the HQ but more than 1 each of the others. Balance as such; each Elite Unit Costs: Elite Points/Requisition/Power. Make so even though they would all be available, but in no way would you ever be able to spam a lot of them.
They'll use the next race to bring back part of the player base to their game. In order to make sure that said players returning to the game will buy said dlc race and keep playing the game, they need to resolve a lot of the reasons that pushed said players to leave in the first place.
I see the next race dlc as a way to push players to take a look at the game and see if they now like it and be willing to play it more consistently.
If relic release said race without improving the game first, then the dlc will under perform due to the low player base. I'm pretty sure that the release date of the new race has been push back for those reasons.
Complex elite and Doctrine system ? I think you miss spelled simplistic elite and Doctrine system.
Agreed,
For me this actually limits what you can do in game.
You have so many less options during a match, which means the main focus you have is this “Fast-Pace” “Micro-Intense” “Super Mario Style Spammy” RTS that limits you on what strategic choice you can make in a match that is suppose to be based on Strategy.
I have given these suggestions before; big changes can make a big difference:
Economy Adjustment
---Patch it back to the pre-patch with less adjustments; the base Req. increase on top of the increase Reimbursements for the first two escalation phases seems like it was way too much.
---or Remove the Escalation Phase.
---or Create a New Mode that allows the Economy to play like COH 1 or DOW 1 played, with just a steady stream of income. (leaving the Escalation as a different Objective Selection for each Map.)
Line Unit Adjustment
---Stronger or slightly stronger Line Units could of helped with that big hole in the game pre-patch, where if you lost one unit (which was so easy) if felt like such a big lost.
*****What fun is it in having Hero/Elite units if all in-game units can die so easy?
Add More Cover Options
---Maybe a Building Mechanic where units show up on the roof, kind of like the Bubble, but on top of a building. One unit from each faction doing bonus dps to units in buildings.
Transfer the Army Doctrine System to an In-Game Tech-Tree System like COH 1
---Think of Company of Heroes 1 Mods like Blitzkrieg or Europe at War.
Make All Elite Units available In-Game
---Think of Warcraft 3.
---Here you could do something like a HQ, Elite, Colossal System; Only 1 each of the HQ but more than 1 each of the others. Balance as such; each Elite Unit Costs: Elite Points/Requisition/Power. Make so even though they would all be available, but in no way would you ever be able to spam a lot of them.
I wouldnt have a problem with escalation phases if they wouldnt ramp up so fast and bury me in money. Also the early money income is far too much. Sure it helped with saving peoples asses early game but it essentually changed how the entire game plays now.
Id be happy with a DoW 2 style gameplay first 10 minutes of the game and next 10 minutes very big battles or atleast get eased into it,
About that building cover mechanic. Doesnt hifh ground already provide you an advantage over units with no vision. I think DoW 3s cover system is acceptable. There are alot of undiscovered ways and tactics to utilize grass, smoke stealth cover that just havent been used right yet. You can easily use smoke to switch aggro and preserve unit health. Just not many maps out yet with good layout of these cover types,
I wouldn't have a problem with escalation phases if they wouldn't ramp up so fast and bury me in money. Also the early money income is far too much. Sure it helped with saving peoples asses early game but it essentially changed how the entire game plays now.
Id be happy with a DoW 2 style game-play first 10 minutes of the game and next 10 minutes very big battles or at least get eased into it,
When I first started playing DOW 3 I was wondering if they would change the Escalation Phases to every 15 minutes vs. the 10 minute ordeal since it already seem to pick up very fast in the 3rd & 4th phases.
I could not believe how much the Economy changes literally ruined any sort of enjoyable experience I had with DOW 3.
Pre-patch: about 218 hours
Post-pacth: about 11 hours.
This on top of the other areas that needed improvement.
They seem hard pressed on keeping the Line Units weak like a SC 2 experience, and I assume this is so because it was a very important part of their vision / game design approach.
But again I ask:
What fun is it in having Hero/Elite units if all in-game units can die so easy?
What fun is there in selecting 6 Army Doctrines if you don't even end up using some of them because a good RTS game is suppose to be fluid with lots of options in adjusting your strategy (research options, upgrades, etc.) Why limit the strategic choices in a RT-Strategy game?
The Tech-Tree System in the COH 1 Mods like Blitzkrieg & Europe at War is a great example of how you could provide a rich strategic research environment for DOW 3. (IMO)
Also, picture the combination of Dawn of 1 (Line Units) and Warcraft 3 (Heroes)
You have stronger Line Units (add a lot of research options for these guys, hence all the Army Doctrines transferring over to be available for each match.)
You can have All the Elite Units available in a HQ, Elite, Colossal System to where you might only get 3-4 of them in game, but you get to choose during the match.
Also these Elite Units are very important, strong, tough to take down, compliment your strong Line Units, but don't decimate 5 squads with one ability.
There are so many examples of successful formulas that have worked for other RTS games (some from Relic themselves.)
If Starcraft 2 can still have a successful experience in this modern day of gaming with sticking to what works for them, then why should Relic always try to change the formula so drastically that it alienates a very large portion of their fan base?
If Starcraft 2 can still have a successful experience in this modern day of gaming with sticking to what works for them, then why should Relic always try to change the formula so drastically that it alienates a very large portion of their fan base?
Because Relic lives for constant experimenting with games? Just my guess.
If Starcraft 2 can still have a successful experience in this modern day of gaming with sticking to what works for them, then why should Relic always try to change the formula so drastically that it alienates a very large portion of their fan base?
Because Relic lives for constant experimenting with games? Just my guess.
Also because of the fact that even by Blizzard standards SC2 is by far their least popular game. If the game wasn't starcraft with its competitive legacy, it would've died years ago. This is part of the reason Blizzard is releasing BW:R. The old style RTS genre is a dying breed, it primarily appeals to the ultra-competitive gamer and those above the age of 30 (those who grew up playing RTS and dislike the new generation of games like MOBA's). Any wise person can see the shifts in market and player trends concerning RTS, none of which inspires confidence in the genre.. It was a smart move on Relic's part to innovate in an increasingly more niche genre.
If Starcraft 2 can still have a successful experience in this modern day of gaming with sticking to what works for them, then why should Relic always try to change the formula so drastically that it alienates a very large portion of their fan base?
Because Relic lives for constant experimenting with games? Just my guess.
Also because of the fact that even by Blizzard standards SC2 is by far their least popular game. If the game wasn't starcraft with its competitive legacy, it would've died years ago. This is part of the reason Blizzard is releasing BW:R. The old style RTS genre is a dying breed, it primarily appeals to the ultra-competitive gamer and those above the age of 30 (those who grew up playing RTS and dislike the new generation of games like MOBA's). Any wise person can see the shifts in market and player trends concerning RTS, none of which inspires confidence in the genre.. It was a smart move on Relic's part to innovate in an increasingly more niche genre.
Is it really innovation when no one plays it? We are already past dead game memes.
Innovation does not equal popularity. Often it involves risk because of the uncertainty. Many inventive projects often don't catch on. Kind of a false statement that you could see too if you took more than 1 min to think about it.
Anyways, the usual middle aged neckbeard 40k fanboy v everyone else on this forum is starting to get annoying. All I do is repeat the same points to the same people who think relic is the dumbest company on earth for not catering to a bunch of "fans" that abandoned all the previous DoW's super quickly in a genre that is increasingly unpopular; confusing personal dislike for a new style of RTS for an actual bad game.
@DaDokisinX said:
Innovation does not equal popularity. Often it involves risk because of the uncertainty. Many inventive projects often don't catch on. Kind of a false statement that you could see too if you took more than 1 min to think about it.
Anyways, the usual middle aged neckbeard 40k fanboy v everyone else on this forum is starting to get annoying. All I do is repeat the same points to the same people who think relic is the dumbest company on earth for not catering to a bunch of "fans" that abandoned all the previous DoW's super quickly in a genre that is increasingly unpopular; confusing personal dislike for a new style of RTS for an actual bad game.
LOL- all I get from your posts are “Look at me, I am a super sensitive, quick tempered, Millennial Brat Kid who thinks I know what I am talking about, and I am only tolerant to those who agree with me.”
Wa wa wa wa wa wa….., please go cry a river during one of your 9 work breaks.
Neckbeards, I love it.
Neck-hairy-phobic are we?
I assume you will start shaving in about a year or so?
You make a lot of assumptions and generalizations don’t you; maybe that is why no one listens to you?
If the hardcore 40K fans or fans of Relic’s past games annoy you so much to the point that you have to insult others, then can you please leave us alone and go and spam your wise millennial knowledge on some other forums.
Most of us get this little thing called “Innovation.” It’s been around in other industries for years; no doubt many, many, many years before you were even born.
A good RTS is based on successful formulas just like a good MOBA is based on successful formulas. Mess up the formula and you will have an explosion and a not so fun time cleaning up the mess.
Not all innovation is good innovation.
If you simplify an RTS with less strategy (strategic choices) and design the game to play in a manner that turns people away does that make it good innovation?
We get it, personal dislike for a game does not mean it’s a bad game.
e.g.- I really dislike playing RPG games, but I still think the Mass Effect Series are very good games.
Now, personal dislike for the way a game feels & plays in reference to…. Wait for it….. wait for it…., in reference to a “Standard of Past Successful Experiences” will turn anyone away regardless of the “Genre.”
RTS is a niche genre for a reason.
It involves numbers. How those numbers tie into the Pacing, Economy, Balance, Strategic Options-(upgrades, unit abilities, buildings, defense structures,) etc.
These numbers properly coded into an enjoyable creative universe can provide fans of this genre with hundreds of hours of challenging fun.
You can’t simplify an RTS game to the point turning “thousands” away and then say the innovation was good innovation.
To argue with you while you get offended and then to listen to you insult others is really a waste of time. But hopefully during one of your 9 work breaks you will ponder on some of these things, and maybe, just maybe you will change your thinking so as to produce a better outcome in how people listen to your point of view.
@KPMaker
I think you need to take your foot off the pedal...
You've written a broadly offensive post yourself that is trying to discourage broadly offensive posts.
In addition I think you ramped it up a notch from @DaDokisinX 's post.
If either of you would see past the slinging of insults both of you make valid points.
I myself praise the innovation (though also miss some of the omissions from previous iterations- mainly cover mechanics, suppression and fire arcs).
Unfortunately RTS does appear to be a diminishing genre so I think creative thinking is required to breath some life into it.... if people could refrain from being so personally offended by these changes then we, as RTS fans, could endeavour to work with developers to push the genre forward.
....instead the levels of irrationally upset keyboard warriors are just too ++heresy redacted++ high.
Sad for me is that right now we won't see probably new race, and that's pity because I like more factions in RTS games.
However I can live without that. Still if what DaDokisinX said is true, then who knows?
Anyways even if Dow3 is dead I will play it once I will get it, however to not be quickly bored with it, a few skirmish matches in a day and occassionally will be sufficient for me just like with other RTS game I currently play.
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CANNED_F3TUS
Not sure but we will probably kniw more about races in a month or 2. I think the only thing holding them back is Balance of the first 3.
jonoliveira12
I support getting new races after the original 3 are balanced, and the game has a well stable community. I would advise against just throwing in new faction while it is not, as that will not grab in new customers, and may actually displease the current community.
DaDokisinX
There are a couple reasons to believe Relic will be releasing a new race within 2-3 months (I personally hope for next month).
1) There are a couple people who have been to relic and seen what they are working on such as InControL (maybe Cataclaw?). They have said that what they have seen is pretty exciting and cool, but they cannot talk about it. This seems to indicate a race since its hard to imgaine why these players would get excited about skins or more game modes. I personally wouldn't be too excited for anything that wasn't significant additional content.
2) Relic has hinted at new races (chaos and necrons) in the singleplayer. Chaos was literally in the singleplayer via models and voice lines of all races interacting with chaos targets. This indicates significant development time in making and fleshing out a race imo. It would be werid to develope these assets and then just shelve them, especially when their goal is to release more races.
2.1) Furthermore, Relic finished the single player months ago. I find it hard to believe that they just sat on their hands since then doing basically nothing. We know they do not prioritize balance and mini content (like maps), which leads me to believe they are instead working on a race. Unless the dev team is super slow and just sucks at doing updates (1 small content update and 1 balance patch since release), I think they are spending time doing something else.
2.2) Based on alpha impressions, it seems like relic has pretty much "finished" all the races' units and elites since late 2016. They probably decided to begin making another race after polishing these races (around right before the start of closed beta). At least, this would've been my logical decision, since again they clearly did not work hard on anything else as seen by lack of maps and other content.
3) Some people seem to think a recent comment by Kat_Re is implying no race is being worked on. This may be true, but there are a couple reasons to doubt this. First, Kat probably doesn't have the authority to drop information on new races (above her Paygrade). Second, her answer can also be seen as a dodge to the question "can we get a new race next patch?" She could just be saying "no we can't release it next patch since it takes a lot of time and you can't expect them so soon."
I could be wrong, maybe the dev team is just super slow. Maybe trying to implement all the elites and doctrines is a much longer process than I realize. But I personally think that a new race is somewhat around the corner. After all, I believe Relic has said they want to add a lot of races, so a somewhat fast scheduled (every 4-5 months) seems likely).
Draconix
Hmmmmmm............ That makes some sense to me. Especially third point. So who knows, if Relic would add new race soon.
Of course I'm still doubting it, but maybe they are working at new race in secret.
Right now, however they seems probably focusing on a community feedback.
Praxis
Honestly, people need to calm down about additional factions. It took years for Dawn of War 1 and 2 to expand upon it's starting factions and back then they did not have the complex elite and doctrine system. Balancing an RTS beyond 3 factions becomes very complicated and there is a reason why pretty much every RTS has 3 factions.
tritol
Id like to see balance and all that stuff, but this game is soooo dead ... look at DC or SS (yeah here we go again), balance was total trash, they never fixed that, but my friends and I spent hundreds of hours because you could just derp around with different races and combinations, who cares they werent balanced we played for fun ...
now the game is bad AND lacks content
Alchemist13
Complex elite and Doctrine system ? I think you miss spelled simplistic elite and Doctrine system. The system was added to dumb down the gameplay to try a capture the wider audience ( hence the perks load out system a.ka. call of duty system, oh sorry I mean the doctrine system). They tried to simplify the game so it would be easier to balance and be more easier for the wider audience to play with its dumb downed gameplay and it totally backfired for relic,.which is a good thing because after this ++heresy redacted++ up they look like they are going to back to the roots and look at what they did right with the first to games and what they did wrong, to help them influence future patches for dawn of war 3.
Relic has a very long road ahead of them to properly revive this game, which they are probably going to have to get right and gain back some of there fanbase that they lost after releasing this unfinished game, before they will be able to release a new race. So I am purely speculating this pushed back the release of a new race as they desperately try and fix this game or maybe Sega said fix this mess before releasing any dlc or expansions.
LeemanRuss
NECRONS and nids
LeemanRuss
time to wake up from slumber and make some friends
KPMaker
Agreed,
For me this actually limits what you can do in game.
You have so many less options during a match, which means the main focus you have is this “Fast-Pace” “Micro-Intense” “Super Mario Style Spammy” RTS that limits you on what strategic choice you can make in a match that is suppose to be based on Strategy.
I have given these suggestions before; big changes can make a big difference:
Economy Adjustment
---Patch it back to the pre-patch with less adjustments; the base Req. increase on top of the increase Reimbursements for the first two escalation phases seems like it was way too much.
---or Remove the Escalation Phase.
---or Create a New Mode that allows the Economy to play like COH 1 or DOW 1 played, with just a steady stream of income. (leaving the Escalation as a different Objective Selection for each Map.)
Line Unit Adjustment
---Stronger or slightly stronger Line Units could of helped with that big hole in the game pre-patch, where if you lost one unit (which was so easy) if felt like such a big lost.
*****What fun is it in having Hero/Elite units if all in-game units can die so easy?
Add More Cover Options
---Maybe a Building Mechanic where units show up on the roof, kind of like the Bubble, but on top of a building. One unit from each faction doing bonus dps to units in buildings.
Transfer the Army Doctrine System to an In-Game Tech-Tree System like COH 1
---Think of Company of Heroes 1 Mods like Blitzkrieg or Europe at War.
Make All Elite Units available In-Game
---Think of Warcraft 3.
---Here you could do something like a HQ, Elite, Colossal System; Only 1 each of the HQ but more than 1 each of the others. Balance as such; each Elite Unit Costs: Elite Points/Requisition/Power. Make so even though they would all be available, but in no way would you ever be able to spam a lot of them.
Belialxv
They'll use the next race to bring back part of the player base to their game. In order to make sure that said players returning to the game will buy said dlc race and keep playing the game, they need to resolve a lot of the reasons that pushed said players to leave in the first place.
I see the next race dlc as a way to push players to take a look at the game and see if they now like it and be willing to play it more consistently.
If relic release said race without improving the game first, then the dlc will under perform due to the low player base. I'm pretty sure that the release date of the new race has been push back for those reasons.
CANNED_F3TUS
I wouldnt have a problem with escalation phases if they wouldnt ramp up so fast and bury me in money. Also the early money income is far too much. Sure it helped with saving peoples asses early game but it essentually changed how the entire game plays now.
Id be happy with a DoW 2 style gameplay first 10 minutes of the game and next 10 minutes very big battles or atleast get eased into it,
About that building cover mechanic. Doesnt hifh ground already provide you an advantage over units with no vision. I think DoW 3s cover system is acceptable. There are alot of undiscovered ways and tactics to utilize grass, smoke stealth cover that just havent been used right yet. You can easily use smoke to switch aggro and preserve unit health. Just not many maps out yet with good layout of these cover types,
KPMaker
When I first started playing DOW 3 I was wondering if they would change the Escalation Phases to every 15 minutes vs. the 10 minute ordeal since it already seem to pick up very fast in the 3rd & 4th phases.
I could not believe how much the Economy changes literally ruined any sort of enjoyable experience I had with DOW 3.
Pre-patch: about 218 hours
Post-pacth: about 11 hours.
This on top of the other areas that needed improvement.
KPMaker
They seem hard pressed on keeping the Line Units weak like a SC 2 experience, and I assume this is so because it was a very important part of their vision / game design approach.
But again I ask:
What fun is it in having Hero/Elite units if all in-game units can die so easy?
What fun is there in selecting 6 Army Doctrines if you don't even end up using some of them because a good RTS game is suppose to be fluid with lots of options in adjusting your strategy (research options, upgrades, etc.) Why limit the strategic choices in a RT-Strategy game?
The Tech-Tree System in the COH 1 Mods like Blitzkrieg & Europe at War is a great example of how you could provide a rich strategic research environment for DOW 3. (IMO)
Also, picture the combination of Dawn of 1 (Line Units) and Warcraft 3 (Heroes)
You have stronger Line Units (add a lot of research options for these guys, hence all the Army Doctrines transferring over to be available for each match.)
You can have All the Elite Units available in a HQ, Elite, Colossal System to where you might only get 3-4 of them in game, but you get to choose during the match.
Also these Elite Units are very important, strong, tough to take down, compliment your strong Line Units, but don't decimate 5 squads with one ability.
There are so many examples of successful formulas that have worked for other RTS games (some from Relic themselves.)
If Starcraft 2 can still have a successful experience in this modern day of gaming with sticking to what works for them, then why should Relic always try to change the formula so drastically that it alienates a very large portion of their fan base?
Draconix
Because Relic lives for constant experimenting with games? Just my guess.
DaDokisinX
Also because of the fact that even by Blizzard standards SC2 is by far their least popular game. If the game wasn't starcraft with its competitive legacy, it would've died years ago. This is part of the reason Blizzard is releasing BW:R. The old style RTS genre is a dying breed, it primarily appeals to the ultra-competitive gamer and those above the age of 30 (those who grew up playing RTS and dislike the new generation of games like MOBA's). Any wise person can see the shifts in market and player trends concerning RTS, none of which inspires confidence in the genre.. It was a smart move on Relic's part to innovate in an increasingly more niche genre.
Pringworm
Is it really innovation when no one plays it? We are already past dead game memes.
DaDokisinX
Innovation does not equal popularity. Often it involves risk because of the uncertainty. Many inventive projects often don't catch on. Kind of a false statement that you could see too if you took more than 1 min to think about it.
Anyways, the usual middle aged neckbeard 40k fanboy v everyone else on this forum is starting to get annoying. All I do is repeat the same points to the same people who think relic is the dumbest company on earth for not catering to a bunch of "fans" that abandoned all the previous DoW's super quickly in a genre that is increasingly unpopular; confusing personal dislike for a new style of RTS for an actual bad game.
KPMaker
LOL- all I get from your posts are “Look at me, I am a super sensitive, quick tempered, Millennial Brat Kid who thinks I know what I am talking about, and I am only tolerant to those who agree with me.”
Wa wa wa wa wa wa….., please go cry a river during one of your 9 work breaks.
Neckbeards, I love it.
Neck-hairy-phobic are we?
I assume you will start shaving in about a year or so?
You make a lot of assumptions and generalizations don’t you; maybe that is why no one listens to you?
If the hardcore 40K fans or fans of Relic’s past games annoy you so much to the point that you have to insult others, then can you please leave us alone and go and spam your wise millennial knowledge on some other forums.
KPMaker
-blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
Anyways, where did ever you get this “catering to a bunch of "fans" that abandoned all the previous DoW's super quickly”?
You do realize DOW 1, COH 1, and DOW 2 have numerous mods that many, no doubt even some your age, play till this day right?
You do realize none of these games would have had any expansions if the “bunch of fans” abandoned the games so quickly right?
If they did cater to the hardcore fan base do you think they would have had more success?
Should we go over the numbers of Relic’s past games and how many actually bought DOW 3 compared to how many are still playing right now?
By the way, I want Relic to succeed, and I am very thankful for their hard work, even If I think they did not make the wisest decisions.
KPMaker
-blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
Most of us get this little thing called “Innovation.” It’s been around in other industries for years; no doubt many, many, many years before you were even born.
A good RTS is based on successful formulas just like a good MOBA is based on successful formulas. Mess up the formula and you will have an explosion and a not so fun time cleaning up the mess.
Not all innovation is good innovation.
If you simplify an RTS with less strategy (strategic choices) and design the game to play in a manner that turns people away does that make it good innovation?
We get it, personal dislike for a game does not mean it’s a bad game.
e.g.- I really dislike playing RPG games, but I still think the Mass Effect Series are very good games.
Now, personal dislike for the way a game feels & plays in reference to…. Wait for it….. wait for it…., in reference to a “Standard of Past Successful Experiences” will turn anyone away regardless of the “Genre.”
RTS is a niche genre for a reason.
It involves numbers. How those numbers tie into the Pacing, Economy, Balance, Strategic Options-(upgrades, unit abilities, buildings, defense structures,) etc.
These numbers properly coded into an enjoyable creative universe can provide fans of this genre with hundreds of hours of challenging fun.
You can’t simplify an RTS game to the point turning “thousands” away and then say the innovation was good innovation.
To argue with you while you get offended and then to listen to you insult others is really a waste of time. But hopefully during one of your 9 work breaks you will ponder on some of these things, and maybe, just maybe you will change your thinking so as to produce a better outcome in how people listen to your point of view.
MaxwellsDaemon
@KPMaker
I think you need to take your foot off the pedal...
You've written a broadly offensive post yourself that is trying to discourage broadly offensive posts.
In addition I think you ramped it up a notch from @DaDokisinX 's post.
If either of you would see past the slinging of insults both of you make valid points.
I myself praise the innovation (though also miss some of the omissions from previous iterations- mainly cover mechanics, suppression and fire arcs).
Unfortunately RTS does appear to be a diminishing genre so I think creative thinking is required to breath some life into it.... if people could refrain from being so personally offended by these changes then we, as RTS fans, could endeavour to work with developers to push the genre forward.
....instead the levels of irrationally upset keyboard warriors are just too ++heresy redacted++ high.
Draconix
Sad for me is that right now we won't see probably new race, and that's pity because I like more factions in RTS games.
However I can live without that. Still if what DaDokisinX said is true, then who knows?
Anyways even if Dow3 is dead I will play it once I will get it, however to not be quickly bored with it, a few skirmish matches in a day and occassionally will be sufficient for me just like with other RTS game I currently play.
B1ad3ua
Omg stop with new races. More races = harder to balance = ppl gonna cry and leave. 3-4 is fine.
Reyseth
People always cry for unbalanced game,no new race, no maps, no content,no elites, no doctrines etc always we gonna cry for better game