Some of elites should be producible in the game

Gosu · June 2017

You can only choose 3 elites, which mean other 6 elites will not use in the game. what a waste of elites.
Some of elites should be producible in the game. for example, SM elites, terminater, Imperial knights should be producible in the game. This will make units roster stronger, the game more interesting.
Elites point system is failure. There is nothing interesting, so passive system.

Katitof · June 2017

In average MOBA game you have ~100 characters, but you can use only 1 in game.
What a waste of characters.

One character only in MOBA games is a failure, there is nothing interesting, so passive system.

In trading card games there is hundreds of different cards, but you can take only 30-60 cards into the game.
What a waste of cards.

In FPS games there are sooooo many weapons, but you can only use one at a time.
Such a waste of weapons.

....

I disagree with you as hard as a man can disagree with another men without invoking a world war.

You clearly do not understand the idea of loudouts and customization.

Gosu · June 2017

@Katitof said:
In average MOBA game you have ~100 characters, but you can use only 1 in game.
What a waste of characters.

One character only in MOBA games is a failure, there is nothing interesting, so passive system.

In trading card games there is hundreds of different cards, but you can take only 30-60 cards into the game.
What a waste of cards.

In FPS games there are sooooo many weapons, but you can only use one at a time.
Such a waste of weapons.

....

I disagree with you as hard as a man can disagree with another men without invoking a world war.

You clearly do not understand the idea of loudouts and customization.

Dow3 is not MOBA or FPS. It's RTS. dow3 has weak units roster, lack of depth of game play. Dow3 need more units obviously.

Daunt · June 2017

@Gosu said:

@Katitof said:
In average MOBA game you have ~100 characters, but you can use only 1 in game.
What a waste of characters.

One character only in MOBA games is a failure, there is nothing interesting, so passive system.

In trading card games there is hundreds of different cards, but you can take only 30-60 cards into the game.
What a waste of cards.

In FPS games there are sooooo many weapons, but you can only use one at a time.
Such a waste of weapons.

....

I disagree with you as hard as a man can disagree with another men without invoking a world war.

You clearly do not understand the idea of loudouts and customization.

Dow3 is not MOBA or FPS. It's RTS. dow3 has weak units roster, lack of depth of game play. Dow3 need more units obviously.

RTS = real time strategy.
Strategy = choices. Other games have sub-factions with unique units, and by picking one you don't have access to the others. Having all the elites available reduces the amount of choices you need to make (which is called "depth").

Gosu · June 2017

@Daunt said:

@Gosu said:

@Katitof said:
In average MOBA game you have ~100 characters, but you can use only 1 in game.
What a waste of characters.

One character only in MOBA games is a failure, there is nothing interesting, so passive system.

In trading card games there is hundreds of different cards, but you can take only 30-60 cards into the game.
What a waste of cards.

In FPS games there are sooooo many weapons, but you can only use one at a time.
Such a waste of weapons.

....

I disagree with you as hard as a man can disagree with another men without invoking a world war.

You clearly do not understand the idea of loudouts and customization.

Dow3 is not MOBA or FPS. It's RTS. dow3 has weak units roster, lack of depth of game play. Dow3 need more units obviously.

RTS = real time strategy.
Strategy = choices. Other games have sub-factions with unique units, and by picking one you don't have access to the others. Having all the elites available reduces the amount of choices you need to make (which is called "depth").

I did not say all the elites, but some of them like terminater and imperial knight. are you blind?

Katitof · June 2017

@Nassir_Amit said:
He has a point though: The rosters lacking an self- sufficience. No heavy units or ones, that could be compared to an elite in the lategame.

Also having named characters alongside no-names feels a bit occured...

Its called asymmetrical balance.

First command and conquer game was released 22 years ago and guess what?
Only one side had light attack aircraft.
Only one side had heavy tanks.
Only one side had specialized anti infantry tank.
Only one side had long range artillery.

Plus, you're plain wrong about self sufficiency.
ALL factions have means to do everything other factions can, simply with a different methods.

Tell me what one faction can do what other 2 can't and I'll tell you how to do it or why its not there, but something else is.

No units comparable to elite?

There is so many troops on filed at that time, that elites gets murdered in moments, even super heavy walkers.

Named elites next to elite squads is perfectly fine and perfectly 40k lore friendly.

DmonBlu · June 2017

@Nassir_Amit said:
He has a point though: The rosters lacking an self- sufficience. No heavy units or ones, that could be compared to an elite in the lategame.

Also having named characters alongside no-names feels a bit occured...

Heavy units? By that u mean Predators? or Wraithguards? or Deft dreads? Those aint heavy? i have seen a dreadnaught soloed Gabe AND Killteam with flamer at the SAME TIME and he came out on top with the support of a few tacs/scouts squads? That isnt enuf? And by " that could be compared to an elite in the lategame " I really dont know what trying to say... I completely lost it there . Those 8+ point elites r supposed to be "super weapons" similar to alpha pilot and hand of ruk of grey goo. The reason why they made a limited roster was becuz they prefer to make useful units that can see competitive usage not just make lots of random useless units that r rarely used like BCs or lurkers (the last time I see a lurker in a competititve SC 2 match is.... Irct ). All units in DOW 3 can be used in particular situations and none r useless unlike in SC 2 where 1-2 units reign supreme (marines, marauder, medivac all day long while BCs.... not so much). Heck even super late game units like wraithblades have their uses (charging them to the predator and watch it melt in 3 seconds ). Named chars is inspired by MOBA like the game. In MOBAs most heroes r named and they r where Relic took inspiration from.

SykA · June 2017

Maybe they could add a new game mode where you could produce all the elites available to each race.

tritol · June 2017

if they made tac with gear heavybolter/lascanon/flamer etc for T1 they could make termies T2, there are some similar options ....

but to post itself, no, its exactly the way it is, I am not saying I wouldnt like some fun mode where you could deploy more elites or more of same kind, but this is actually good to build your own gamestyle, I often go for example with 2 knight type elites and I have lot of fun with that

Katitof · June 2017

@Nassir_Amit said:
We are not 22 years ago.

No, we are not.
We have 22 years of proven experience that asymmetrical balance is the ONLY way to go to keep players interested in game for more then 15 minutes as proven by failed symmetrcial RTS games, like plannetary annihilation.

We want an fun game.
Epic scale.

Play 3v3?

Also elits are an really huge powerdump. In CoH2, you had not such an hard time against an enemy with doctrins, than in DoW 3.

Its not CoH2.
You have your own elites too.
Elites are MEANT to be powerful, that's why they are called elites, not line troops.

DoW III basic armies are just that . Basic.

Welcome to the world of RTS, where basic armies are basic armies and limited super units are limited super units.

To spice them up would be no crime. I think elits should be there to spice up the army and not make the army dependent on them!

You're assuming, wrongfully, that we're lacking something here. We don't.
If more=better, then games like R.U.S.E, Men of War series and its clones and recently released Steel Division would be most played RTS games of all times.
They are not.
Its starcraft, warcraft 3, CoH and DoW series, all with heavy asymmetrical balance, where not everyone got everything and if you want certain options, you have to go for certain faction. Arguing its not best thing is like arguing that 22 years of RTS history was wrong and warcraft 2 where only skins are different was perfect.

Also, it s not like there couldn t be found proper replacements

That's not an argument at all, that's wishful thinking and day dreaming.

Gosu · June 2017

Nerf terminator and make it producible. change warp spiers, mega nobz too. It will be much better game.

Stoner · June 2017

Why people fail to realize that if Relic allows all Elites to be deployed and remove elite point system, it would be super-walker stomping ground over and over?... Some regular Elites costing 2-4 points are already too freaking powerful, especially for units coming for free, with free respawn. Game will just turn into real MOBA if you can field anyone, no one will be buying line troops, lol.

Katitof · June 2017

@Stoner said:
Why people fail to realize that if Relic allows all Elites to be deployed and remove elite point system, it would be super-walker stomping ground over and over?... Some regular Elites costing 2-4 points are already too freaking powerful, especially for units coming for free, with free respawn. Game will just turn into real MOBA if you can field anyone, no one will be buying line troops, lol.

^This kids.

CANNED_F3TUS · June 2017

@Gosu said:

@Katitof said:
In average MOBA game you have ~100 characters, but you can use only 1 in game.
What a waste of characters.

One character only in MOBA games is a failure, there is nothing interesting, so passive system.

In trading card games there is hundreds of different cards, but you can take only 30-60 cards into the game.
What a waste of cards.

In FPS games there are sooooo many weapons, but you can only use one at a time.
Such a waste of weapons.

....

I disagree with you as hard as a man can disagree with another men without invoking a world war.

You clearly do not understand the idea of loudouts and customization.

Dow3 is not MOBA or FPS. It's RTS. dow3 has weak units roster, lack of depth of game play. Dow3 need more units obviously.

While that is true that the roster is quite small relic has to be careful not to implement units with overlapping roles. Because then we get the problem wih some units not being used at all because there is a unit out there that does the same job much better. Keep the units unique and im all for adding new units.

GuruSkippy · June 2017

@Stoner
Hardcap elites to a total of 3 (as we have), with each elite buyable only once (as we have, you can't have 2 stormboyz in your loadout) doesn't seem game changing to me.
It will open more strategy in game.

I don't think Relic will do it though, it's problematic with elite command doctrine.

(same with doctrines btw, I'd love to have them buyable in game, 3 for free, the others with exponentially increasing prices)

CANNED_F3TUS · June 2017

@Nassir_Amit said:

@CANNED_F3TUS said:

@Gosu said:

@Katitof said:
In average MOBA game you have ~100 characters, but you can use only 1 in game.
What a waste of characters.

One character only in MOBA games is a failure, there is nothing interesting, so passive system.

In trading card games there is hundreds of different cards, but you can take only 30-60 cards into the game.
What a waste of cards.

In FPS games there are sooooo many weapons, but you can only use one at a time.
Such a waste of weapons.

....

I disagree with you as hard as a man can disagree with another men without invoking a world war.

You clearly do not understand the idea of loudouts and customization.

Dow3 is not MOBA or FPS. It's RTS. dow3 has weak units roster, lack of depth of game play. Dow3 need more units obviously.

While that is true that the roster is quite small relic has to be careful not to implement units with overlapping roles. Because then we get the problem wih some units not being used at all because there is a unit out there that does the same job much better. Keep the units unique and im all for adding new units.

Define uniquness. People have fairly different propositions on this.

i tried to make the introduction of an rhino/razorback valid, but I was told it would hurt SM uniquness, cause they have non of that business. Why tho in TT?

Not talking about race uniqueness talking about keeping them from overshadowing other units. For example Tactical marines. If they added Stern guard marines the tactical marines would as of then be obsolete. The sternguard is better in every aspect than Tac marines and does the same job.

Relic technically can add the razorback if they wanted too. But the argument is pretty strong that it would make SM an even bigger steam roller. SM already has a few ways to replenish numbers with pods.

Units relic could add for SM are apoths and tech marines They could come in 3 man squads and provide bonuses for your units making them more effective but not overshadowing other units.

Butter30 · July 2017

@SykA said:
Maybe they could add a new game mode where you could produce all the elites available to each race.

This is the suggestion of the day ^^.

vindicarex · July 2017

I like how OP trashes the system without providing an iota of rationale for the claim.

It's almost as if he has no reason and it's just a completely subjective opinion...

Stoner · July 2017

wrong post nvm

Some of elites should be producible in the game

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