@Jelly said: @Northanui Just because you can't give your workers due diligence doesn't mean the game needs to be reshaped for everyone. There isn't another elite in the game that gets completely countered with a mere 50 requisition.
And it's not as if you had to scout the whole map for him, only choke points and scrap heaps. For all his stealth mechanics Knob's bombs are still very predictable.
Not just that activly destroying scap heaps is a good way to mitigate the kommandos effectivness.
Those comments on "shoot scrap" make me laugh. In competitive MP match you don't have time standing and shooting every scrap pile, as you have to constantly move and be in right position at the right time, plus shooting anything gives away your position which invites Ork to successfully jump you. In regular match vs. SM, by T2 scrap is basically everywhere you step, you like walking over it, and there is no any sensible way to destroy ALL this with live opponent present. It's simply impossible.
@Stoner said:
Those comments on "shoot scrap" make me laugh. In competitive MP match you don't have time standing and shooting every scrap pile, as you have to constantly move and be in right position at the right time, plus shooting anything gives away your position which invites Ork to successfully jump you. In regular match vs. SM, by T2 scrap is basically everywhere you step, you like walking over it, and there is no any sensible way to destroy ALL this with live opponent present. It's simply impossible.
Ofcourse there is a time where you got more important things to do. Not saying its main priority. Just a thing to do after you have defeated an ork attack. Giving you plenty time to clean house or press the advantage and attack.
@Stoner said:
Those comments on "shoot scrap" make me laugh. In competitive MP match you don't have time standing and shooting every scrap pile, as you have to constantly move and be in right position at the right time, plus shooting anything gives away your position which invites Ork to successfully jump you. In regular match vs. SM, by T2 scrap is basically everywhere you step, you like walking over it, and there is no any sensible way to destroy ALL this with live opponent present. It's simply impossible.
I think that scrap being generated from EVERY vehicle that dies is a bit much. Maybe reduce it to 50% chance of a scrap being generated and within that 50% a tank has a 50% chance of making an undersized scrap pile ergo you can't just cheaply spam bigtrakks from every predator you kill. You can't spam cheap killa kans from every trukk/falcon/landspeeder or whatever.
@Stoner said:
Those comments on "shoot scrap" make me laugh. In competitive MP match you don't have time standing and shooting every scrap pile, as you have to constantly move and be in right position at the right time, plus shooting anything gives away your position which invites Ork to successfully jump you. In regular match vs. SM, by T2 scrap is basically everywhere you step, you like walking over it, and there is no any sensible way to destroy ALL this with live opponent present. It's simply impossible.
I think that scrap being generated from EVERY vehicle that dies is a bit much. Maybe reduce it to 50% chance of a scrap being generated and within that 50% a tank has a 50% chance of making an undersized scrap pile ergo you can't just cheaply spam bigtrakks from every predator you kill. You can't spam cheap killa kans from every trukk/falcon/landspeeder or whatever.
If only vehicles... I'm using rapid droppod doctrine, well... can you imagine?
Plzz dont build vehicles vs Orks.... Seriously why would u ever fo that? Why wouldnt u just mass tacs + scouts + a few support units and just rollover them by mid game? Im certain that the Ork T2 is just outright weak trukks melt in seconds and Nobz can be kited to oblivion. Surely a devastator with lascannon supported by 2 scouts can destroy Nobz in less than 30 seconds. Why would u guys even argue bout this? Even an armor-dependant faction like Eldar (gotta spam those wraitguards and WWGs ) dont have problems with the scrap mechanic why would a T1 faction like SM do??? Seriously ...
I swear sometimes you are playing a different game to the rest of us with some of the stuff you say....
SM are a t1 faction? What do you even mean by that? Do you think they have the weakest late game or something?
This is solely based on my exp as a player and watching top streamers like Bikerush and Superaisian. They never go for tier 2 instead they just spam tacs + scouts supported by a few devs and kill team then continue to roll over everybody. Mind you this was before Tireless nerf but the playstyle is still the same. Space marines are supposed to spam space marines. not cowarding inside vehicles and abuse WW to win. U get out those tacs and fry the Ork, its simple. Deathwatch is there to help u make the ball snowing easier .If u really have to resolve to stalling as a SM then u r doin sth wrong. Ork is the stalling faction not SM. SM's T1 is the strongest with cheap as chips scouts and OP flamer which destroys almost any army composition early game that dares to manfight them and nothing feel more manfighting than Orkz. So plzz, crush them with the emperor's might and slap their asses before the 8 minutes mark, the moment Nobz comes out u will lose
Note this might change after a few patches so... This is an opinion post
I swear sometimes you are playing a different game to the rest of us with some of the stuff you say....
SM are a t1 faction? What do you even mean by that? Do you think they have the weakest late game or something?
This is solely based on my exp as a player and watching top streamers like Bikerush and Superaisian. They never go for tier 2 instead they just spam tacs + scouts supported by a few devs and kill team then continue to roll over everybody. Mind you this was before Tireless nerf but the playstyle is still the same. Space marines are supposed to spam space marines. not cowarding inside vehicles and abuse WW to win. U get out those tacs and fry the Ork, its simple. Deathwatch is there to help u make the ball snowing easier .If u really have to resolve to stalling as a SM then u r doin sth wrong. Ork is the stalling faction not SM. SM's T1 is the strongest with cheap as chips scouts and OP flamer which destroys almost any army composition early game that dares to manfight them and nothing feel more manfighting than Orkz. So plzz, crush them with the emperor's might and slap their asses before the 8 minutes mark, the moment Nobz comes out u will lose
Note this might change after a few patches so... This is an opinion post
Many SM players run an infrantry heavy composition: going for fast upgrades, teching pretty fast for more upgrades and dumping lategame power in dreadnought drops. But they don't tend to stay on tier 1.
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CANNED_F3TUS
Not just that activly destroying scap heaps is a good way to mitigate the kommandos effectivness.
YbuBaKa
Use AV squads to destroy scrap piles, they do it faster.
Gorb
Amusingly, there's an SP mission where it explicitly teaches you to do this.
Sadly, unlike in the SP mission, you can't just mass Shadow Spectres in the MP and go and hunt scrap piles down. Opinion post.
Stoner
Those comments on "shoot scrap" make me laugh. In competitive MP match you don't have time standing and shooting every scrap pile, as you have to constantly move and be in right position at the right time, plus shooting anything gives away your position which invites Ork to successfully jump you. In regular match vs. SM, by T2 scrap is basically everywhere you step, you like walking over it, and there is no any sensible way to destroy ALL this with live opponent present. It's simply impossible.
CANNED_F3TUS
Ofcourse there is a time where you got more important things to do. Not saying its main priority. Just a thing to do after you have defeated an ork attack. Giving you plenty time to clean house or press the advantage and attack.
MrBenis
I think that scrap being generated from EVERY vehicle that dies is a bit much. Maybe reduce it to 50% chance of a scrap being generated and within that 50% a tank has a 50% chance of making an undersized scrap pile ergo you can't just cheaply spam bigtrakks from every predator you kill. You can't spam cheap killa kans from every trukk/falcon/landspeeder or whatever.
GuruSkippy
trukk and landspeeder scrap are not level 2 scrap,
MrBenis
"or whatever"
Stoner
If only vehicles... I'm using rapid droppod doctrine, well... can you imagine?
DmonBlu
Plzz dont build vehicles vs Orks.... Seriously why would u ever fo that? Why wouldnt u just mass tacs + scouts + a few support units and just rollover them by mid game? Im certain that the Ork T2 is just outright weak trukks melt in seconds and Nobz can be kited to oblivion. Surely a devastator with lascannon supported by 2 scouts can destroy Nobz in less than 30 seconds. Why would u guys even argue bout this? Even an armor-dependant faction like Eldar (gotta spam those wraitguards and WWGs
) dont have problems with the scrap mechanic why would a T1 faction like SM do??? Seriously ...
MaxwellsDaemon
@DmonBlu
I swear sometimes you are playing a different game to the rest of us with some of the stuff you say....
SM are a t1 faction? What do you even mean by that? Do you think they have the weakest late game or something?
DmonBlu
This is solely based on my exp as a player and watching top streamers like Bikerush and Superaisian. They never go for tier 2 instead they just spam tacs + scouts supported by a few devs and kill team then continue to roll over everybody. Mind you this was before Tireless nerf but the playstyle is still the same. Space marines are supposed to spam space marines. not cowarding inside vehicles and abuse WW to win. U get out those tacs and fry the Ork, its simple. Deathwatch is there to help u make the ball snowing easier
.If u really have to resolve to stalling as a SM then u r doin sth wrong. Ork is the stalling faction not SM. SM's T1 is the strongest with cheap as chips scouts and OP flamer which destroys almost any army composition early game that dares to manfight them and nothing feel more manfighting than Orkz. So plzz, crush them with the emperor's might and slap their asses before the 8 minutes mark, the moment Nobz comes out u will lose
Note this might change after a few patches so... This is an opinion post
MaxwellsDaemon
@DmonBlu
Ah well fair enough.
In my opinion your perspective of the game is off by a few degrees.
No need for a forum rant though
Murador
Many SM players run an infrantry heavy composition: going for fast upgrades, teching pretty fast for more upgrades and dumping lategame power in dreadnought drops. But they don't tend to stay on tier 1.