No for the last time, u cant surrender in 30 secs that is unsportmanship AND toxic. Try to play the game not quitting after like 1 lost engagement. THIS IS NOT SC 2 u cant BM ppl then quit its not acceptable.
Presumably to encourage people actually attempt the game, instead of quitting based on preconceived ideas of skill rating and / or the faction they end up fighting. Repeatedly dropping out of a game because the situation isn't ideal for you will be frustrating for everyone you encounter.
This is complete speculation, however, based on my knowledge of how concede works in other games I have played. Opinion post.
Nothing stops you from just quitting after 10s in the game so why shouldn't honourable surrender work straight away? Calling it toxic to SURRENDER when people drop out 5s in to a game in 3v3 all the time thus crippling your team is much worse.
@MrBenis said:
Nothing stops you from just quitting after 10s in the game so why shouldn't honourable surrender work straight away? Calling it toxic to SURRENDER when people drop out 5s in to a game in 3v3 all the time thus crippling your team is much worse.
Oh you can do that, but you're not going to get any post match rewards.
@Jelly said:
Surrendering still nets you ~25 skulls doesn't it? If you could do that within the first seconds some people might abuse it as a farming mechanic.
I don't see how skulls can be a solid platform to argue with. They're not sold for money. Once you have everything they still accumulate for no real reason.
I'd bet skulls were implemented as a way to just keep people on a treadmill but look at how that panned out.
@MrBenis said:
Nothing stops you from just quitting after 10s in the game so why shouldn't honourable surrender work straight away? Calling it toxic to SURRENDER when people drop out 5s in to a game in 3v3 all the time thus crippling your team is much worse.
Because Relic cannot physically stop people from dropping from a game. They can control the pace around Surrendering. Again, speculation.
I didn't call anything toxic, though linguistically another thing also being toxic (the dropping from games) doesn't mean that the first thing isn't.
It seems to me that you don't want to accept any reasons given, which given your opposition to the principle is understandable. But what kind of discussion are you therefore looking for?
@Jelly said:
Surrendering still nets you ~25 skulls doesn't it? If you could do that within the first seconds some people might abuse it as a farming mechanic.
Farming for skulls is pointless you cant buy anything with them.
@MrBenis said:
I don't see how skulls can be a solid platform to argue with. They're not sold for money. Once you have everything they still accumulate for no real reason.
I'd bet skulls were implemented as a way to just keep people on a treadmill but look at how that panned out.
Where's your problem then? If you don't care about the rewards why not drop?
@Katitof said:
Game is not lost after losing first skirmish or single squad and that's one way to tell that to players.
For some players, particularly in team matches, the game is lost after the first skirmish, such is the poor balance between races right now. Sometimes players themselves are just woefully underskilled compared to opponents and stand no chance of victory. Sometimes it's obvious the only thing stopping you from getting steamrolled is the turret inside 5 minutes and this also is just padding the game life out and compensating for the above two points of bad game balance and bad player skill differential.
Sometimes maybe it's OK to admit that things are ill conceived and that it's OK to change things as well. To all the people I dropped out on, I'm sorry, but you can stop wasting my god ++heresy redacted++ time by refusing to surrender even though you lost your whole army and your shield gen and your tower, and to all the people who dropped out on me 30s in to a match or after 5 min its OK I get it because the artificial barriers in place make taking loss gracefully impossible and so you had to quit to save your self from frustration.
Making surrender available straight away is good, because today I had two matches where players on enemy team had noobs with only 1 doctrine and they lost badly, game over in like 11 minutes. Being able to collect your participation award whether it takes 40 minutes or the more elegant 5 minutes should be totally a decision for the players not this ++heresy redacted++ limitation given to just punish ++heresy redacted++ teams for 10 minutes so they can go AFK instead of play because there's no reward for performance scaled against units killed or structure damage or whatever, just a flat 15 skulls on loss so why even bother fighting an uphill battle?
@MrBenis said:
You can't claim something is a pure speculation and then claim that same thing is a reason LOL
Sorry, let me rephrase. Backed up by your subsequent attempt of playing on semantics, you don't seem to want to listen to any opposing viewpoints. I'll repeat: what kind of discussion are you looking for?
surr timer will be always problem but if it was 5 minutes people would probably wait for that, now its 10 minutes and people rather leave in 3
I am talking mostly about 3v3 and more than half of the games usually end 3v2 2v2 etc with bots, yes you can still win with bots, you can still lose against bots, but if I want to play against bots Ill play custom solo and instead of wasting 10 minutes playing and then surr, Ill rather just leave too as soon as someone leaves .. I came for 3v3 not for ai practice ..
@Jelly said:
Surrendering still nets you ~25 skulls doesn't it? If you could do that within the first seconds some people might abuse it as a farming mechanic.
I don't see how skulls can be a solid platform to argue with. They're not sold for money. Once you have everything they still accumulate for no real reason.
I'd bet skulls were implemented as a way to just keep people on a treadmill but look at how that panned out.
Im sure they will add something to make skulls mean something.
+1 to the OP. I can decide for myself when i lost the game, thank you very much. "Encouraging" me to waste my time by depriving me of worthless skulls ain't gonna work. Even if farming skulls was a thing i would have alt-tabed and bitched on a forums or something instead of continuing to play the match that i deem lost. Right now i just press quit match button if i happen to lose the game before 10 minutes, the punishment of not getting to see the after match statistics is not a big deal.
It does not happen very often, but I tend to win and lose matches before 5 min mark, as I'm sure many other players as well. I don't care about skulls, but when you just drop out, it may give an impression to your opponent that you just ragequit, which you didn't. Thus being able to surrender sooner kinda has more of an honor value to me than in-game currency.
@Stoner said:
I don't care about skulls, but when you just drop out, it may give an impression to your opponent that you just ragequit, which you didn't.
@Stoner said:
I don't care about skulls, but when you just drop out, it may give an impression to your opponent that you just ragequit, which you didn't.
Say GG first
I tend to never chat, breaks my immersion in little pieces. Especially things like "gg", "hf", "gl" and etc. It's not ++heresy redacted++ StarCraft, we're playing Warhammer 40k here, "For The Emperah!" or STFU.
@Stoner said:
It does not happen very often, but I tend to win and lose matches before 5 min mark, as I'm sure many other players as well. I don't care about skulls, but when you just drop out, it may give an impression to your opponent that you just ragequit, which you didn't. Thus being able to surrender sooner kinda has more of an honor value to me than in-game currency.
Do u have honor dude? Atleast make sure u actually destroyed their core before spamming bullcrap on the forum. So u think u win before 5 mins huh? Yeah a lot of SC 2 pros used to think like that too and then the cumback happens... Watch sOs's reverse all kill. Easy stomp huh? I THINK NOT. The whole reason why u cant surrender before 20 mins in League is to encourage ppl to actually try to win NOT accepting their fate and quit... No it doesnt work that way bro sorry I hate to bring it to u but there is sth called "sportmanship" and "never surrender spirit". Its not over till it does. Did u watch the 1999 finals between MU and Bayern? U should watch that game bro its doped as fk
@CadisEtramaDiRaizel said:
I simply waste the time till 10 mins are up and i hit surrender.
Wouldn't it be better to spend this time trying to improve and thinking what you did wrong?
Just a thought.
Might decrease a number of "balance" threads about balanced units.
And im only asking for counter play. If you can provide advice then good, if not then the reason still stands (BALANCE).
Provide a replay and people will provide advise and insight on what you did wrong and what you should do it.
Believe me, if you just rant like certain pair of individuals who counter heavy armor with normal damage, people will ignore you.
If you provide a replay and ask for help, there is quite a few people willing to take their time to go through it and give an advise.
There are balance issues in the game, but much, much less then people believe there are.
@CadisEtramaDiRaizel said:
I simply waste the time till 10 mins are up and i hit surrender.
Wouldn't it be better to spend this time trying to improve and thinking what you did wrong?
Just a thought.
Might decrease a number of "balance" threads about balanced units.
And im only asking for counter play. If you can provide advice then good, if not then the reason still stands (BALANCE).
Provide a replay and people will provide advise and insight on what you did wrong and what you should do it.
Believe me, if you just rant like certain pair of individuals who counter heavy armor with normal damage, people will ignore you.
If you provide a replay and ask for help, there is quite a few people willing to take their time to go through it and give an advise.
There are balance issues in the game, but much, much less then people believe there are.
I play 3v3 so It might be difficult to provide the same advice as you do for 1v1. How do I counter las cannons effectively?Lascannon -bolters combo will supress anything i throw at them ( banshees, Da etc and reapers are slow. Also, las cannon seem to do decent damage against normal armour even though they are AV. Unless i misunderstood something, but I could see my shields dropping quickly on my elite spiders against lascannon.
Menu
Comments
DmonBlu
No for the last time, u cant surrender in 30 secs that is unsportmanship AND toxic. Try to play the game not quitting after like 1 lost engagement. THIS IS NOT SC 2 u cant BM ppl then quit its not acceptable.
Gorb
Presumably to encourage people actually attempt the game, instead of quitting based on preconceived ideas of skill rating and / or the faction they end up fighting. Repeatedly dropping out of a game because the situation isn't ideal for you will be frustrating for everyone you encounter.
This is complete speculation, however, based on my knowledge of how concede works in other games I have played. Opinion post.
Katitof
Game is not lost after losing first skirmish or single squad and that's one way to tell that to players.
MrBenis
Nothing stops you from just quitting after 10s in the game so why shouldn't honourable surrender work straight away? Calling it toxic to SURRENDER when people drop out 5s in to a game in 3v3 all the time thus crippling your team is much worse.
Jelly
Surrendering still nets you ~25 skulls doesn't it? If you could do that within the first seconds some people might abuse it as a farming mechanic.
Katitof
Oh you can do that, but you're not going to get any post match rewards.
Runfree
Don t vive skull for surrender before 10 minutes...problem solved
Jelly
If you don't care about the skulls then there's no problem to begin with, just drop.
MrBenis
I don't see how skulls can be a solid platform to argue with. They're not sold for money. Once you have everything they still accumulate for no real reason.
I'd bet skulls were implemented as a way to just keep people on a treadmill but look at how that panned out.
Gorb
Because Relic cannot physically stop people from dropping from a game. They can control the pace around Surrendering. Again, speculation.
I didn't call anything toxic, though linguistically another thing also being toxic (the dropping from games) doesn't mean that the first thing isn't.
It seems to me that you don't want to accept any reasons given, which given your opposition to the principle is understandable. But what kind of discussion are you therefore looking for?
CANNED_F3TUS
Farming for skulls is pointless you cant buy anything with them.
MrBenis
You can't claim something is a pure speculation and then claim that same thing is a reason LOL
Jelly
Where's your problem then? If you don't care about the rewards why not drop?
MrBenis
For some players, particularly in team matches, the game is lost after the first skirmish, such is the poor balance between races right now. Sometimes players themselves are just woefully underskilled compared to opponents and stand no chance of victory. Sometimes it's obvious the only thing stopping you from getting steamrolled is the turret inside 5 minutes and this also is just padding the game life out and compensating for the above two points of bad game balance and bad player skill differential.
Sometimes maybe it's OK to admit that things are ill conceived and that it's OK to change things as well. To all the people I dropped out on, I'm sorry, but you can stop wasting my god ++heresy redacted++ time by refusing to surrender even though you lost your whole army and your shield gen and your tower, and to all the people who dropped out on me 30s in to a match or after 5 min its OK I get it because the artificial barriers in place make taking loss gracefully impossible and so you had to quit to save your self from frustration.
Making surrender available straight away is good, because today I had two matches where players on enemy team had noobs with only 1 doctrine and they lost badly, game over in like 11 minutes. Being able to collect your participation award whether it takes 40 minutes or the more elegant 5 minutes should be totally a decision for the players not this ++heresy redacted++ limitation given to just punish ++heresy redacted++ teams for 10 minutes so they can go AFK instead of play because there's no reward for performance scaled against units killed or structure damage or whatever, just a flat 15 skulls on loss so why even bother fighting an uphill battle?
Gorb
Sorry, let me rephrase. Backed up by your subsequent attempt of playing on semantics, you don't seem to want to listen to any opposing viewpoints. I'll repeat: what kind of discussion are you looking for?
tritol
surr timer will be always problem but if it was 5 minutes people would probably wait for that, now its 10 minutes and people rather leave in 3
I am talking mostly about 3v3 and more than half of the games usually end 3v2 2v2 etc with bots, yes you can still win with bots, you can still lose against bots, but if I want to play against bots Ill play custom solo and instead of wasting 10 minutes playing and then surr, Ill rather just leave too as soon as someone leaves .. I came for 3v3 not for ai practice ..
but leavers are just different topic ..
CANNED_F3TUS
Im sure they will add something to make skulls mean something.
Bersercker
+1 to the OP. I can decide for myself when i lost the game, thank you very much. "Encouraging" me to waste my time by depriving me of worthless skulls ain't gonna work. Even if farming skulls was a thing i would have alt-tabed and bitched on a forums or something instead of continuing to play the match that i deem lost. Right now i just press quit match button if i happen to lose the game before 10 minutes, the punishment of not getting to see the after match statistics is not a big deal.
Stoner
It does not happen very often, but I tend to win and lose matches before 5 min mark, as I'm sure many other players as well. I don't care about skulls, but when you just drop out, it may give an impression to your opponent that you just ragequit, which you didn't. Thus being able to surrender sooner kinda has more of an honor value to me than in-game currency.
Jelly
Say GG first
Stoner
I tend to never chat, breaks my immersion in little pieces. Especially things like "gg", "hf", "gl" and etc. It's not ++heresy redacted++ StarCraft, we're playing Warhammer 40k here, "For The Emperah!" or STFU.
DmonBlu
Do u have honor dude? Atleast make sure u actually destroyed their core before spamming bullcrap on the forum. So u think u win before 5 mins huh? Yeah a lot of SC 2 pros used to think like that too and then the cumback happens... Watch sOs's reverse all kill. Easy stomp huh? I THINK NOT. The whole reason why u cant surrender before 20 mins in League is to encourage ppl to actually try to win NOT accepting their fate and quit... No it doesnt work that way bro sorry I hate to bring it to u but there is sth called "sportmanship" and "never surrender spirit". Its not over till it does. Did u watch the 1999 finals between MU and Bayern? U should watch that game bro its doped as fk
DaDokisinX
The same reason why there is a surrender timer in LoL and the complete lack of a surrender option in Dota 2.
Gorb
Saying people are not in their right mind is not a counterargument, and is in fact insulting. Don't do this. Post deleted.
Moderator Post
CadisEtramaDiRaizel
I simply waste the time till 10 mins are up and i hit surrender.
Katitof
Wouldn't it be better to spend this time trying to improve and thinking what you did wrong?
Just a thought.
Might decrease a number of "balance" threads about balanced units.
CadisEtramaDiRaizel
Most of those games are annihilation ones where i waste time.
CadisEtramaDiRaizel
And im only asking for counter play. If you can provide advice then good, if not then the reason still stands (BALANCE).
Katitof
Provide a replay and people will provide advise and insight on what you did wrong and what you should do it.
Believe me, if you just rant like certain pair of individuals who counter heavy armor with normal damage, people will ignore you.
If you provide a replay and ask for help, there is quite a few people willing to take their time to go through it and give an advise.
There are balance issues in the game, but much, much less then people believe there are.
CadisEtramaDiRaizel
I play 3v3 so It might be difficult to provide the same advice as you do for 1v1. How do I counter las cannons effectively?Lascannon -bolters combo will supress anything i throw at them ( banshees, Da etc and reapers are slow. Also, las cannon seem to do decent damage against normal armour even though they are AV. Unless i misunderstood something, but I could see my shields dropping quickly on my elite spiders against lascannon.