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Biggest issue for the game.
Wardemon
To me is community. I initially before the game came out and before I had played in open beta was taken right along with many of the people who were not excited/were pissed about the game and was posting some of that to videos threads about the game.
Once I actually played the beta I changed my mind as it was something new and very very very fun to me. Group think is real.
So obviously nothing can be done to stop the people who feel how they feel from doing what they do so to me the lesson and point going forward for relic is how to handle and manage it.
Forums need to be reorganized.
We need something like a forum for constructive multiplayer balance and a forum for rants/non constructive posts that are negative to the community.
Obviously that forum should probably not be named rants but something more diplomatic.
The point of this is to move the constant negative ranting type threads to one place because censoring it completely would be bad.
I know personally when I come to the forums before playing I tend to get cold on the game and often don't want to play. Yet at the same time when I play without going to the forums I have a TON of fun to the point it surprises me after I go through a period of reading too many forum posts and being cold on the game.
TLDR
Forum needs a section for negative non constructive posts so that people know that is what they will get when they go to that part of the forum.
Obviously the people who enjoy unloading their frustrations here will not like it and will be all over this thread with that but I strongly believe their handling of negative aspects of the community is important for DOW 3 and relic going forward.
Simply locking the posts and leaving them littering the main forum is imo not the most effective way to deal with the issue it needs its own space in the forum.
Comments
Wardemon
P.S. this post is not meant to say there are no issues whatsoever with the game because there does not exist a perfect game. Carry on.
Exzodium
What do you expect. People paid full price and are now leaving in droves, or are salty as crap.
Pegleg
Lol all you have to do is mention either Soulstorm or Retribution.
DmonBlu
Well u really have to think bout this. Ppl will never post in that rant forum of urs. Instead they will swarm into balance/gameplay threads and start blaming EVERTHING. U dont really know what thread is constructive or not less u read it. However as u can see we only got 1 mod and there r hundreds of threads.... Making him read all those threads is both inhuman and literally impossible. Its fine cuz there r only 2-3 rant threads daily so its not that tiring to lurk the forum
This is an opinion post
Wardemon
Right it shouldn't be called rants obviously. Those who don't post there would have their posts moved there ideally.
You may be right that it is too much work for what staff they currently have. I just honestly believe how relic handles the community is the most important issue for them.
"Its fine cuz there r only 2-3 rant threads daily so its not that tiring to lurk the forum"
I disagree, when you look at the most popular posts at the front of the forums and close to half of them are locked posts and or rants that is an issue imo
Relic's most important objective should be having new players try the game in a space where they can objectively form their own views on it.
Gigs
Ya just shove the nay sayers to the side and ignore anyone dissapointed with the game.
Zulunational
Wrong. Biggest issue is lack of Chaos.
Wardemon
No they must continue to listen to constructive criticism while putting non constructive and rant posts in a separate place designated for that type of post.
grndmrshlgando
more like lack of content
Stoner
Please, we had enough threads blaming "community" for game mediocrity...
Wardemon
You seem to have ignored the actual contents and points of my post in order to take the opportunity to slam the game add nothing constructive and perhaps derail the thread.
This was a constructive post to suggest actions for Relic to take help improve and grow the game and community while diplomatically dealing with people who post non constructive things like you did.
Misery
Your first line says that your biggest issue with the game is the community. If you're not aware, it's a well used "tactic" used by fans and companies alike. Blaming the consumer for not liking a product is silly. It's the sellers responsibility to make a decent product, not the customers responsibility to adjust their tastes to whatever they're paying for.
Anyway, the problem with the game is it's not fun enough to keep people playing. People whine about CoD being a pile of crap all the time, yet it has high player numbers because people get enjoyment from it, so public reaction doesn't amount to much. The reasons why the game has less players than Soulstorm now is because people don't have enough fun to stick around. It's very much a issue with the product. People aren't maliciously not playing a game they like because other people don't like it.
Probably most the people don't view the forums anyway, even amid the 300 - 900 or so still playing. But think about it, this isn't a good game to most people, so surely negativity and wanting it to be very different is not only needed but should be expected. Simply, if you want to silence criticism, and bring positivity the only way is to make the game better. Softly silencing or tidying it away doesn't do that, just bring more complaints about how Relic didn't pay any attention to any of the pre launch criticism, or post launch criticism. Basically all you're suggesting is misrepresenting peoples opinions to make them seem more positive. It's not going to bring players back or grow the community.
Houdeenee
You can't blame the community for hating the product. That's ridiculous. It's up to Relic to make the product that we want to play. Or, to make a product we don't know we want to play yet, and convince us we need it. They haven't done either with this game unfortunately.
If community group think was real, Overwatch would have died a long time ago. If you want to see a toxic community, give that game a shot. It had a bare bones release as well, which was missing dam near everything you'd want in a shooter. Yet, that game is massive and still growing.
This game lacks everything you want in either a MOBA or an RTS. It bothers both audiences, and what they should've done is pick a direction and went all the way with it. Either make a unique MOBA that can compete with the others, or make an RTS that's in line with DoW 1, and push to be the best at it. Right now, this half assed middle of the road game, does neither genre well.
vindicarex
You're being way too generous with DoW3's "critics"
It's fine that you don't like a game and it's not your style.
But these "community critics" go a step further and say the game is garbage - that every design aspect of it is just wrong. They make an objective claim (about the reality of the game) and say it's garbage from their own personal, subjective views on the game.
The game is objectively pretty quality and outshines both DoW1/DoW2 and almost every objective measurement you can make about a video game. Is it perfect? No, what game is (except DoW1, apparently). But people want to say the game is crap and poorly made where in reality it's just that they are entitled 30+ RTS gamers who just want to re-live the glory days of RTS from 13+ years ago (which is why every RTS, even SC2, is almost always met with universal criticism about the most subjective and purile reasons).
But hey - it's not like mass mobs of people don't fall victim to group think, never jump on the band wagon. They always clearly and critical form their opinions and are the truest and fairest "critics."
DaDokisinX
No, it bother people like ArchWarhammer and older gamers who have a very traditional view of what an RTS should be. Again, I'm pretty sure this is your subjective opinion which you then projected onto others to try and make an objective claim as why the game is doing bad. It is not obvious to me at all that MOBA elements (the extent of which is a champion unit and a power core) negatively impact core RTS gameplay. I hear this almost every day on this forum, the same unsubstantiated accusation, "it's just a poor mix of MOBA and RTS, so therefore its bad." Furthermore, apparently this "dumbs down" the game, even though DoW3 is by far the toughest DoW to play yet with the highest skill ceiling.
In case you forgot, no RTS of the past 5 years (except CoH2(sort of)) has been successful at all. How many RTS games are even being funded/made as proportion of all games (hint: very few)? The genre is hemorrhaging players by the day, and all that are left are hardcore fans of each title that will never stop playing (AoE fans). Even the mighty Starcraft has a pathetic following for a Blizzard game, and Starcraft 2 has lost so many players outside Korea, that Blizz is just remaking BW for the Korean competitive scene. Even other strategy games like Civ and Total War are far more popular than RTS games. But apparently these trends mean that Relic should just duplicate an outdated genre with very niche appeal and therefore little hope of making a popular game (especially when the "fans" abandoned both of their previous titles for more fun games). Trying to innovate in the genre was a smart move on Relic's part, their only problem was relying on the aforementioned older fans who just won't swallow it.
Wardemon
"You can't blame the community for hating the product. That's ridiculous."
Right and this thread is not about blaming the community for hating the product no matter how frivolous or how sound and reasonable their reasons are.
This thread is saying that whatever the reason the biggest issue is the community. So how to deal with the community in the most effective way and grow the community is the issue this post addresses.
This post doesn't say f the community for not liking the product if they could come to their senses everything will be all right.
I know some people want to read the post that way but that is not what the post is saying at all.
Wardemon
I will just direct you to my previous post as well.
BlastaT2
I could go to Vue or odean, watch two movies with my girlfriend for the same price as dow and only get entertainment for 4 hours. Charging full price for this game is fine. Im happy to buy it and enjoy it.
Gambit
OK, so I was determined never to post anything concerning DoWIII, and keep on playing/modding DoWI and DoWII as I do for so much time now.
So many things have been said. Countless conversations, and each thesis with its own set of arguments.
But from the very first time I saw DoWIII, only one thing came to mind - the "biggest issue", if you will:
THE GAME LACKS DEPTH.
There. I said it.
Yes, I have never played it. But watched countless videos. COUNTLESS. I do not care if the gameplay is good or bad. It may be excellent, for what I care.
DoW games are about depth and character.
And I only see shallow, simplified content.
I guess the game was not targeting people like me, but younger/new players.
Bah.
Katitof
As non entitled 30+ RTS gamer I agree to that in 100%.
Community of DoW3 IS a cancerous issue contributing a lot to the game not being as much of a success as it should be, we have way too many self righteous and entitled individuals trashing all systems and all aspects, including graphics(which beats DoW1 and DoW2 graphics very hard and without any competition), as Vindi said, objectively the game is best made DoW up to date with almost perfect balance compared to previous ones at similar stage(and even years after).
Its the blind, raging crowd, clinging to their nostalgia to the point where they are willing to ignore every and all flaws previous DOWs had and they had plenty(I'm looking at you, DoW1 crowd, at this time you're just rampaging, completely blind to reason zealots), autistically screeching for return of features which existed in previous DoWs for reasons that don't exist in DoW3.
DoW3 is not DoW2 or DoW1, ignorant people who thought otherwise went for it blindly, despite knowing how the game would look like months prior to release(or they would know if they gave a crap) and it'll never be one of these, so instead of spitting bile about the game, just go back to your nostalgic childhood days of previous games and STICK there instead of being cancerous tumor of DoW3 community, constantly asking for features which have no place here and turning away potential new players.
Katitof
Actually, people like ArchWarhammer are completely deluded fools.
ArchWarhammer himself is a lore nerd, he knows his lore, but that's it - his opinion about any 40k games is a complete garbage, because he ALWAYS ignores gameplay and focuses on fluff and lore, which is ignored in games for a good reason.
ArchWarhammer in regards to any 40k games could have a viable points when talking about PLOT of 40k games, in regards to game and gameplay itself, he just talks out of his rear area because he is completely biased due to his lore-boner.
MaxwellsDaemon
Arch warhammer strikes me as the kind of critic who feels he must take the positive and work in a negative, and take the negative and push it into a pejorative.
I did feel his insight into the actual strategy aspect of the game was shallow. Unfortunately I suspect a lot of players took his word as gospel and didn't bother trying it.
Give it time - if the current community sticks with it numbers will grow with additional content and future sales. If we keep active participation in tourny's that will help cultivate interest as well.
We could do with a more regular caster. It really helps a tonne with those undecideds. Especially if that caster is able to articulately highlight the strategic richness in the game.
Indrid was fantastic but unfortunately he doesn't seem to have much interest in DOW3.
MaxwellsDaemon
@Nassir_Amit
He could easily pull them off of Gamereplays?
Draconix
Sorry to reply, but I don't see sync-kills and directional cover as innovative now, they were innovative in previous titles once. Besides even if they need improvement, then how should be done to be innovative now and without hurting players's feelings? I don't see need and even a possibility for further improvement for them.
Katitof
Desperate clinging to nostalgia and asking for features that don't belong to this game(as there are no technical nor balance reasons for them) is not "idea for improvement".
Community that don't like the product left.
Self deluding vocal crowd of fools who honestly believes the game will be completely reshaped into something completely else if they will bash it long enough and whine about literally everything, with you as the chairman of this club, are only doing damage to the games perception by new players.
So yes, community is to blame here.
Improvements for you are equal to making it DoW2/DoW1.
That's not happening, so take it or leave it.
Improvements that ARE needed without succumbing to the depths of insanity are:
-better balance
-more and better designed maps
-new factions
What you're suggesting is the madness that needs to stop.
"Gabriel Angelos does flips! OMG WTF WORST GAEM EVUH"
That's ArcchWarhammers opinion of the game.
He is completely insane, doesn't understand the RTS genre, doesn't understand RTS gameplay and it shows.
Elaborated irrational points are still irrational and wrong.
No, we don't.
The "grandpas" who praise the old days, how amazing it was when we just discovered a wheel and how everyone was riding horses instead of these stupid, fancy cars and airplanes should not try to shape this game into their nostalgia.
They should go back to the titles which made them nostalgic in the first place or adapt to the future and progress, because like it or not(and I know you don't), DoW3 is a step forward for the ganre with many improvements. That's SPECIFICALLY why we do NOT need older features - they existed EXCLUSIVELY because older titles did not had what DoW3 does.
Heroes, doctrines, improved faction mechanics.
Being utterly blind to innovation doesn't make them any less innovative.
Clinging to the past is NOT innovation.
Which systems?
Do you have bad FPS?
Do you not see clearly which units do what?
Do you struggle to identify units interactions?
Are faction mechanics confusing to you or bad?
You're spouting that line without even knowing what it means.
So STOP trying to ruin the game already!
You will NEVER find a nice girlfriend if you keep remembering previous one and reminding everyone about her every 30 seconds.
You will NEVER find DoW3 appealing if you keep clinging to the relics of the past.
Old systems are GONE, because the reasons we needed them are GONE.
Either go back to your ex(DoW2/1) or STOP trying to re-shape new one into the ex, because it'll NEVER be that one again.
Chronoslayer
True. If he was interested in DoW 3, he could be casting like these youtubers/streamers --> HardKrest, RTS Cult Mechanicus, 2Sk3tChy, 미스타로빈, Supersaisian, Cataclaw, 1kn0wfear.
From his beta impressions video about DoW 3, Indrid sounds like he is in the customer base that prefers DoW 2's playstyle and aesthetic.
In general, DoW III has more tuning (good ork-play only stoppable by scout-spam, anyone?) and content addition to go before it can be a better-adopted, more established RTS title than it is in its current state.