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Do you believe in DoW3's future?
3 years ago
Terrador
Do you believe DoW3 can be made into a great game?
Do you believe DoW3 can be made into the game the people expected it to be form the beginning?
Do you believe the work the developers are doing is a good direction or should they be focusing on other things?
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the_black_pawn
concerning 1) I already think it's a great game, so: sure
concerning 2) Which people? The in every thread to be seen whiners or the silent players?
So: No by principle, because you cannot satisfy every customer, who are individuals with individual expectations.
concerning 3) I think they're doing a great job. CSM as a new race would be swell, though.
Jazz_Sandwich
Yes.
No.
And I think that we no way of knowing what the majority of the work behind the scenes is being invested in. Without a clear roadmap that is.
To elaborate, I think that refinement can make the core gameplay a lot more appealing. But this is very different from DoW3 ever becoming a game that people expected from the beginning. I can't deny that what we got is radically different from the prior games (which in turn were radically different from each other), but I also think that there is no singular game that meets the expectations of the fans.There are vocally disappointed groups that wanted dow3 to be more like dow1. There are also vocal groups who feel that any change in the formula from dow2 is a step in the wrong direction. We have a prevalent argument that absolutely no influence from the MOBA sub-genre should have made it's way into dawn of war. But another large complaint with the game is the absence of the incredibly popular last-stand mode, ie the literal Multiplayer Online Battle Arena. We have threads where it's posited that DoW3 obviously needed A, B and C because that's what the fans wanted, and other threads where the game obviously needed X, Y and Z because that's what the fans wanted.
There is no single possible dawn of war 3 that can meet these kinds of expectations. In Irish we have a saying, "Is iomaí daoine nà tuairim", which means "there are as many opinions as people". And I think that's how many ideas there are of what dow3 should have been. I think the team developing it were given a poisoned chalice from the outset.
But to get back to the central question, do I believe in dow3's future? I'm not sure I do. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the game personally, but figures indicate that I'm in the minority. I think something like a new faction may inspire temporary interest, but I can't help but feel that it's the core gameplay itself that has resulted in player attrition.
CANNED_F3TUS
Already is a good game.
The devs should stay on course and make a few adjustments ofcourse but they been doin a pretty good game.
I think the only thing missing in DoW 3 is something for the casual player base,
DmonBlu
Yes the amount of efforts Relic put in to improve the game is amazing. If it was Blizzard they would have given up already and focus on MOBAs instead
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.Especially since Blizzard stopped supporting SC 2 and released that abomination called Brood War HD. A complete disgrace to the OG I guess they r too desparate and greedy to actually make sth decent anymore...
If its keep going the way its now even League itself would be scared
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Nope I dont believe they r working on the correct things but u wont be finding me complaining bout that. More contents r always good regardless those content r needed or not. Hopefully after they've done fixing bugs and releasing cosmetics they will focus on Necrons and more heroes/doctrines. The balance can do a bit tweaking but its completely fine a small patch fixing Nobz rush and make CC have diminishing effects will prolly do. For now Im really happy that they r taking their time for now its not the moment for the game to rise, League is still too much of an issue maybe a year later or so.
Oh and they should drop the game price by 75% that will bring lots of players but I would rather wait for it since the game is still not quite ready
daslagato
Blizzard stopped supporting sc2? Where did you get that from? They are still making content and balance adjustments to the game lol, if thats not supporting than I'm not sure what is.
AtlasDoomOcculta
Do you believe DoW3 can be made into a great game?
Personally I think it already is. It can be improved, but the core aspects of it are great.
Do you believe DoW3 can be made into the game the people expected it to be form the beginning?
Nope. DoW3 is a finished product, and something else than what was expected (as seen by the backlash). Either people dig it, or they don't. It'll be down to the success of future content in drawing new blood. Fundamentally the game is complete. Moving forward these will be the mechanics (ergo, don't expect cover to come and say hi, or heroes that level up in game).
Do you believe the work the developers are doing is a good direction or should they be focusing on other things?
They're listening to our feedback (the patch changes prove that), so yes, I do. I believe they'll do the best they can considering how many resources they get to put out new content and game modes.
Amoc
The overwhelming majority of folks who either never bought the game because of what it is, or the overwhelming majority who bought it, and don't play it anymore because they didn't like it. Those people.
You can't satisfy every customer, no, but you should try to satisfy more than a token minority.
GuruSkippy
can you plz make ONE post without talking about this change... It starts to be really annoying now.
You created a thread, you explained why you think it's a bad change, now move one.
Jazz_Sandwich
What do you think yourself, Terrador? Rarely do I see a thread like this posted where the OP doesn't first provide their own thoughts.
Indeed.
the_black_pawn
Well, I actually believe that more people would have liked the game were they not primed so heavy on the negative by "opinion makers" (e.g. Arch Warhammer) on youtoube and other media ... but maybe that's just me.
I myself was hesitant to buy the game because of somersaulting Termie-Gabe and the roasting of the game on YouTube, and even the first multiplayer games I couldn't quite shake off the negative priming ... but alas I stuck to it and am happier than ever, because the Multiplayer is really great if you pass beyond a certain level of practice and gaining more understanding of how the game is designed. I'm sure that without the negative youtube-press, I'd have come to enjoy the game much better much sooner.
Amoc
More people maybe would have bought the game without all the negative publicity. The folks who did buy it, however, aren't playing the game anymore and that's based on their personal experience.
the_black_pawn
I bought it and I play it ... ergo your generalisation is not true. Also I believe the other guys I meet at quickmatch bought and play their game.
Additionally, the more people buy the game the more are likely to stick with it (statistics wise).
So I don't get your argument at all.
Amoc
95% of the people who bought it no longer play it, ergo my generalization is fine.
Sure, 5% of 500,000 people would be higher than 5% of 250,000 people, but you still have 95% of owners not playing.
What I'm trying to show you is that the negative publicity against the game is a symptom, rather than a cause of the problem. Your argument is completely ++heresy redacted++-backwards. The negative publicity isn't a spontaneous conception. Dissatisfaction with the game design itself led to the negative publicity.
This is evident in the fact that the overwhelming majority of folks who bought the game (and thus ignored the publicity and decided for themselves) are no longer playing the game.
the_black_pawn
As long as my quickmatch searches are successful and the queueing-time is less than 5mins, I can't complain, so meh ... I'll rather spend less time on the crystal ball and more time playing.
Well, I guess we're stuck in a chicken-egg situation here.
Your fact can be explained by many variables (if people just like the singleplayer, there's ot much to stick with that game ... I enjoyed the single player of SC2 for example, but after finishing that i stopped playing it because the multiplayer didn't interest me. But maybe you're right, this game most certainly isn't mainstream and I myself seem to like games others don't. As stated above, I'll rather play the game than dive further into theorycrafting about possible reasons other guys and gals won't play the game. I'll enjoy it as long as I can, myself.
grndmrshlgando
I know it's completely unfair to compare DOW3 to ultimate apocalypse or hell, even regular DOW1/DOW2 because those games have been out for years and had several expansion packs worth of content. but even on its own, DOW3 still feels very bare bones and experimental. it needed more time.
tritol
I believe in DoW3 future ... but you must understand what it means, it will have same future like DoW1 and 2, its not going to be billion dollar milking hat machine but it will have future, youll be able to turn it on basically any time of the day and you will still find people online willing to play with you and I think if they add more races and stuff it will bring one or two new players even in the future. thats what dawn of war games are about
Amoc
Sure, you can come up with a wide variety of excuses "variables", but the game has a bare-bones SP offering and it's multiplayer-focused. There's no end to the number of possible excuses/explanations for the exceptionally bad player retention, but the simplest, most obvious and most likely is that people don't really like it.
Auric
I honestly feel like it's future is up in the air at the moment due to the low player count, but I think it can be brought back from the brink. Relic just need to nudge the balance around a bit more and add some more content (preferably a new race) and I think we can get back to a game that more people will want to buy and keep playing.
As to the other discussion that is happening in here, I don't know if the game would have been super successful if there wasn't such a negative train following it, but it really does feel like people were looking for reasons to give it crap from day 1, and not for any (in my opinion) good reason either. There are plenty of things that people can dislike about the way the game plays, but the negative hype started long before there was any true game play at all.
Alchemist13
I will be the first one to say it:
No I don't think Dow 3 can really be saved, the only way relic can get there player base back is by releasing a huge stand alone expansion that is as far away from Dow 3 moba-ish feel, it may not be a moba but It does a moba feel to it more then a rts feel to it, this is why the last mission in the campaign feels the most fun because you are only control 3 over powered heroes like in a moba.
As in huge I mean- (two new races, new single player campaign, squad leaders, change the elites so they don't feel so moba-ish, replace Doctrine system with a wargear system, make basic units for durable so the game feels less moba-ish, more and bigger maps for multiplayer, last stand type mode for heroes, and a dark crusade conquest style map, but of course more in-depth then the o.g. conquest map from dark crusade expansion)
CANNED_F3TUS
This is actually not true games being slammed before release is not always the games fault and can be really problematic for games because Hate trains and parroting happens. Thus mizzles and clouds peoples judgment. People say it sucks for X Y Z and people that never even played the game will think the ravings are totally true and get discouraged. ImO people went over board with DoW 3. Half of the nonsense people were ranting about wasnt even valid or came from very dilusional and closed minded people example Arch warhammer. ++heresy redacted++ i would see the same people planting hate in alot of DoW 3 videos thats how toxic people got over it.
Dow 3 made some mistakes we get it. But the core gameplay and foundation is not its weaknesses. Its solid it just needs more tweaking so it can cater to both DoW 1 and 2 fans. Because thus is what hurt DoW 3. As well. The fans of 1 and 2 expected something similiar to what they loved. But got a mix of the 2. And DoW fans being as selfish as they are cried because the game didnt cater specificly to them.
AtlasDoomOcculta
I'll say it. I want to see Relic double down on the MOBA elements. Nake it a shooter called Dawn of Madden: the X-40K Filez. Put a donkey courier and an auction house and through that bring in players by the droves and bump up the player base by a factor of 2^1024.
Just remove the size of the player base issue by pandering to the mainstream appeal and see what kind of game is left.
Yes. Destroy everything to get everything.
</troll post>
Guziol
I absolutely believe in it, but it will require work.
Draconix
Me personally doubt that we will see new races, yet still I will play it as much I want.
Right now I have to be happy with what we have. Though any new patch whether balance or content will be apprecciated by me.
Terrador
I didn't post anything at first to keep the focus on the three general questions, but if you want my opinion there sure thing.
Do I believe Dawn of War 3 can be made into a great game?
This is going to feel like a copout answer as what constitutes a great game is really simple, and I don't believe Dawn of War 3 lacks any of it that cannot be worked in by the devs. A game doesn't need to be unique to be great, it simply needs to do really well what it has set out to do, and DoW 3 coudl easily achieve this as of now if the devs simply focus on balancing everything and making the gameplay as polished as balanced as it can possibly be. So is it a great game right now? I would have to say no, yet it can be made into one without having to add anything else to it.
Do I believe DoW 3 can be made into the game the people expected from the very beginning?
Absolutely yes, and absolutely not. This is the trickier question here, but the answer actually is really simple. For those people like me, who have loved the previous Dawn of War games and celebrated them for their differences and how they each let you experience the 40k world in a different way, Dawn of War 3 can still absolutely 100% deliver on that. In fact all it would really need would me more maps and ALL the factions that were ever mentioned in the lore ever so players can constantly throw massive armies at other while enjoying the spectacle of seeing their favorite tabletop units duke it out on the battlefield with the aid of their army's powerful elites.
However, for those people that simply wanted Dawn of War 1 or Dawn of War 2 with prettier graphics and identical everything else, then Dawn of War 3 will never satisfy no matter what the developers add to it.
Do I believe the work the developers are doing is good?
I'm a little bit biased on this question, as custom colored elites was one of the features I most wanted in the game since its release, and one feature I had to convince myself would never be put in above any other thing, yet one day I read a dev blog post and see I can now color my Force Commander green, or my Warboss blue, and my eyes sparkled like no other that day. So personally I very much appreciate the detail work the developers are doing, and honestly them just doing it and holding back on the DLC to try and make the game better first instead of just abandoning it or releasing broken DLC for as much extra cash they can has made my heart beat with hope for this game, that one day in the future it can be made, perhaps not into the best Dawn of War game ever, but one that can stand on its own, shoulder to shoulder, with its two giant brothers that came before.
The answer to that last question is the entire reason I made this thread, to see if people that still lurked around felt the same way as me, if they felt the same appreciation for the devs putting in work on the game instead of just leaving to rot, and if not then they could at least express what they would like better instead, and perhaps somewhere in this mess the devs could read all of this and help lead them in the right direction to make the game better. Because I won't lie, I did not like the game at first either, but seeing Relic working on fixing it fills me with hope for its future, and this thread was made to perhaps help steer this game's future to a bright one.
Jazz_Sandwich
Bias is synonymous with perspective, no need to be apologetic over having your own. And I wasn't criticising the way you opened the thread, I found it a refreshing difference from the way these discussions usually are directed.
I would agree very much with basically everything you've said: everything added has been as a response of feedback which bodes well. And much as we gripe about balance it's much better than it was at launch.
But I do still worry if it's enough, despite this. These are all improvements upon a framework, the bones of which is unappealing to a large part of the audience or at least very much appears to be.
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CptAlex
if the game release with annihilation and take and hold mode it would be enjoyable than half RTS half MOBA abomination call power core